Lando Norris admitted he went outside track limits during the United States Grand Prix because he noticed Max Verstappen got away with a similar infringement at the previous race.
The McLaren driver, who had both his lap times deleted for track limits infringements in Qatar, said Verstappen had also committed a violation when he took pole position in the same session, but avoided a penalty. The FIA was accused of overlooking other track limits violations during the following round in Austin last week.Norris said “apparently it’s not clear enough” and those violations were “the same as Verstappen going off in Q3 in Qatar in turn seven or eight, I think it was.”
He said the FIA did not penalise Verstappen as they did not consider the footage from his onboard camera to be sufficient evidence that he had put all four of his car’s wheels beyond the edge of the track.
“For anyone who has any decent idea it’s so clearly off the track,” said Norris. “But the ruling is it has to be clear enough for the FIA and it needs to be basically clear from an actual view that both tyres are off, and an onboard camera doesn’t prove anything…
“If the rear wheel might potentially be in, then you can’t classify it as being out. Which is their point.”
Closer monitoring of corners is needed to prevent similar violations in the future, said Norris. “They have to put in basically more cameras that are on the outside so you can see the white line, you can see where the car is, kind of thing.
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“Or you have a camera which looks down the line so you’re able to see when all the tyres go over. That’s pretty difficult to have on every corner and every angle and all of these things.”
“I still think in general they should be stricter on penalties,” he said. “That includes track limits. It might bite me one day when I do it.
“But I think in general, turn six, I did it as well, to be honest. It’s a corner I knew they couldn’t penalise me because they set the precedent in previous tracks of if you can’t reasonably see it, you’re going to get away with it.
“I think you have to know the grey areas and things that you can get away with and that was one of them. So to everyone that did do it, fair play.”
The FIA took some action to discourage track limits abuses in Austin. The white line at turn 19 was widened on Saturday to help drivers judge the position of their cars more accurately.
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However Norris believes it will always be difficult to stamp out track limits abuses at tracks such as the Circuit of the Americas which F1 shares with Moto GP and other bike racing series which prefer asphalt run-offs.
“I don’t know what the answers are, to be honest with you,” he said. “The obvious one is gravel. When you ask us why was it not a problem 20 years ago, it was because they had grass and gravel. We’re not allowed that nowadays because Moto GP have to race there and bikes have to race there and safety has to come into it.
“It shouldn’t be up to us to suddenly create ideas when they’re almost being forced to come into play. We want gravel and certain things, but that’s not allowed because of safety which, kind of, you get. But it’s not up to us to suddenly come up with things.”
Changes to F1 cars have also made it harder to ensure they remain within the track limits, said Norris.
“In my opinion the thicker white line they put in helps because you can just judge things better,” he said. “Visibility is so poor now in a Formula 1 car because of the sidepods being so high and the chassis being so high, all of these things are very different to what they were 10 years ago, 15 years ago.
“So judging something in a car like that is extremely difficult. A lot harder than it probably ever was, I would say, in the past. The thicker white line, in my opinion, has helped because it just gives you that slight bit of reference that you know once you’re on it, you don’t really have anything to play with.
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“When it’s a single white line, judging that to where it might be on the tyre, which is one-and-a-half metres away, judging that when you’re looking at the exit kerb and looking at cars ahead, it’s extremely difficult. You’re asking us to do a lot of different things at the same time. So to me, when they made it wider, it improved a lot.
“I think there was a lot less violations of track limits because it’s just easier to judge rather than the track being that much wider. So I think maximising that a bit more, and having gravel where you can have gravel [would help].”
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BasCB (@bascb)
27th October 2023, 13:13
Interesting. Well, I guess drawing the lines wider in most corners would be a relatively minor thing to do if that helps the issues. The camera angles, might work, but then again, we’re back to having to police it instead of drivers just managing to stay on track.
And then there are things like small strips of grass, the kerbing profile used might help make drivers feel where they are (but then we might run into issues like in Quatar with damage or have issues like with those sausage kerbs and cars getting airborne). But while driver imput should be part of the solution, off course it’s not up to the drivers to device a way to make it natural to keep within track limits instead of ignoring them were possible
S
27th October 2023, 14:33
If only there was something on the ground outside those pesky white lines at corner exits to tell the drivers when they are outside the lines…
Possible solution: Maybe those red and white bumpy things that makes a lot of noise and shake the fillings out of the drivers teeth when they run over them could give them a clue that two wheels have already exceeded the track limit?
What are they called? Kerbs, or something?
It doesn’t need (and isn’t even really desirable) to be natural for the driver to stay within the track limit. They need to make an effort and/or sacrifice to do it. That’s the whole point of having a track that isn’t just a straight line or a circle. The challenge is the good part.
A M (@amam)
27th October 2023, 13:13
“The McLaren driver, who had both his lap times deleted for track limits infringements in Qatar, said Verstappen had also committed a violation when he took pole position in the same session, but avoided a penalty.”
Sounds like Norris is getting a little frustrated that Verstappen keeps getting away with certain things. It’s a running theme now that the FIA are particularly lenient when it comes to Max Verstappen.
MacLeod (@macleod)
27th October 2023, 13:38
He didn’t as the FIA couldn’t verify that ALL the tyres were over the line and the word of Lando isn’t enough as even he couldn’t say for certain that all tryes were over the line as he could see only 1 wheel.
SteveP
27th October 2023, 15:09
There was an incident a number of years ago at Monza, I think it was Vettel, and the tyres were visibly making contact only with tarmac outside the line, but since the bulge of the tyres was judged to be inside it was deemed not outside the line.
Hey, Ferrari, at Monza, could anyone ever rule against them?
All the things point solidly to the need to automate.
anon
27th October 2023, 14:14
@amam it would seem that, in Austin, Perez was abusing track limits quite heavily during the race – available footage suggests that Perez cut that corner on at least 28 different laps, and by around 30cm or more. However, it would seem that it wasn’t one of the corners where abusing track limits would be deemed an infraction.
The Dolphins
27th October 2023, 14:24
This is the way in F1. I am both frustrated and pleased that the outcome of enforcing track limits at some corners means the teams look for the corners where they can still exploit the limits.
It is possible to police every corner, even every meter, of racetrack; it’s also possible to do it in an automated way. The question then is why does the FIA (and F1) feel it isn’t necessary?
S
27th October 2023, 14:43
This isn’t even entirely on the FIA.
F1 drivers are the most outspoken against such systems, and their teams don’t want anything extra that punishes them either. The internal resistance within F1 to such ‘foolproof’ systems is massive, and their power is overwhelming. Especially so now that the teams and the Commercial Rights Holder have formed an alliance.
Look at their collective comments after Austria and Qatar. They blame the ‘silly’ rules that were ‘never’ needed, and the ‘terrible’ track designs, and the ‘awful’ tyres, and how ‘amateur’ it makes F1 (but not the drivers themselves, apparently) look when penalties are handed out for breaches of the most basic rule in motorsport…
Norris is even here gloating that he’s beaten the track limits rules and rule-makers…
SteveP
27th October 2023, 15:02
The SI unit of length is a “metre”
Absolutely. Pressure sensors embedded in the lines collecting data on when a line was run on and if feeding to a transmitter at the corner would notify the FIA and the drivers immediately. Draw the lines at an appropriate place and tell the drivers that touching them is the offence.
The tech to do this has existed for decades.
They say “where there’s a will there’s a way” of course conversely, where’s no will there’s no way…
Sonny Crockett (@sonnycrockett)
27th October 2023, 14:36
Can’t they create ‘virtual gravel’?
If a car goes completely off track it is picked-up by mandatory on-board sensors and the car’s revs are massively reduced, simulating the effects of driving through gravel, until all four wheels are back within the track boundaries.
Tracks could remain relatively safe but with the ability to hugely penalise drivers that go ‘off-piste’.
Asd
27th October 2023, 16:05
OMG, please no! Don’t turn car racing into a video game. Yuck! Your idea is disgusting to me.
Jere (@jerejj)
27th October 2023, 18:37
What a liar.
Max clearly didn’t exceed track limits anywhere during his Qatar GP pole as I recalled correctly but still double-checked just to be sure & FIA indeed does apply track limit enforcement throughout a lap in competitive sessions for the second season running.
Robert Henning
28th October 2023, 11:41
+1.
Robert Henning
28th October 2023, 11:36
Norris is rightly frustrated if true. Anyone got evidence for his claim?
Robert Henning
28th October 2023, 11:41
Never mind I watched it myself. Verstappen’s tires clearly seem to be on the tarmac. Wonder if the inability to win anything is getting to Norris. Afterall all of his teammates are winners of some kind.
Good to know Lando lies.