The race for runner-up is back on: Five Brazilian Grand Prix Talking Points

Formula 1

Posted on

| Written by

The Brazilian Grand Prix weekend is always one of the highlights of the Formula 1 season and this year will likely be no different.

While Max Verstappen continues to look unstoppable out at the front of the field, his team mate has been tripping over himself so often that Lewis Hamilton might have the chance to pursue him for second place in the drivers’ championship.

How will the battle between the two play out this weekend in Sao Paulo? These are the talking points for the Brazilian Grand Prix.

Perez’s second place in play?

The world championship title may have already been won in perhaps the most dominant fashion it ever has been, but that does not mean there are no more battles to be fought as far as the drivers’ standings goes.

Max Verstappen has taken the title every year that Sergio Perez has been his team mate, but Perez has never finished in the runner-up spot over his first two seasons. He came within a race of doing it last season, but Charles Leclerc beat him to it in the final round at Abu Dhabi.

This season, despite his struggles through the year, Perez has held second every single round since the chequered flag first dropped in Bahrain back in early March. However, since the summer break ended, Lewis Hamilton has gradually closing the gap to the second-placed Red Bull driver. Now, after Perez failed to finish at his home grand prix, Hamilton picked up 19 points on him and now sits 20 points away with three rounds remaining.

Start, Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez, 2023
Perez’s no-score at home brought Hamilton within range
Hamilton does not want to be fighting for second place in the drivers’ championship, but while he insists his focus is on the constructors’ championship and helping Mercedes keep Ferrari at bay, he admits he’ll be happy if he catches Perez.

“It’s mostly dependent on Checo’s weekends, really,” Hamilton said. “They have the championship-winning car. He’s just been unfortunate, I think, in some scenarios.

“Honestly, it’s not going to make a big difference to my life, whether I come second or third. It’s more important to get the team second in the constructors and so that’s what I’m focused on. It’s a bonus if we get second in the drivers.”

Heading to a circuit where he’s certain to receive plenty of support from the locals, Hamilton could go a long way towards catching Perez with a strong performance this weekend.

Sprint race finale

Interlagos is the only circuit on the calendar to have held a sprint round every year since the format was introduced in 2021. As one of the most popular tracks among drivers due to its flowing corners and many natural overtaking opportunities, Interlagos is perhaps best suited to generating organic racing of any of the six venues that held sprint races in 2023.

Oscar Piastri, McLaren, Losail International Circuit, 2023
Piastri won F1’s most recent sprint races
Last season, Red Bull suffered one of their rare defeats of the 2022 season when Verstappen was locked into a suboptimal set up after the first practice session on Friday. That allowed Mercedes and George Russell to take advantage, winning both the sprint race and the grand prix on Sunday. While Red Bull have proven beatable on Fridays and even Saturdays during sprint rounds in 2023 – with Leclerc taking multiple pole positions in Friday qualifying and Oscar Piastri winning the Qatar sprint race – the world champions have been perfect on sprint round Sundays, winning all five grands prix held so far.

Given how close Red Bull’s rivals have been to them over recent rounds – even if they have been unable to prevent Verstappen from being victorious on Sundays – this weekend does offer another rare opportunity for the likes of Ferrari, Mercedes or even McLaren to be able to challenge the world champions at the front. However, it will require a perfect weekend to do so and likely some difficulties for Red Bull to make it happen.

But once again, the concept of sprint races will likely come under debate this weekend. With the last sprint race in Austin being another uneventful affair, Red Bull team principal Christian Horner has admitted that the sport needs to be honest with itself about whether the 100km races are really providing the excitement that Formula 1 insists the format offers. What happens this weekend could lead to sprint rounds changing once again ahead of the 2024 season.

Advert | Become a RaceFans supporter and go ad-free

A unhappy anniversary for Mercedes

Mercedes arrive back in Brazil knowing that should they fail to win Sunday’s grand prix, they will officially have gone a full calendar year without a victory for the first time since 2012.

George Russell, Max Verstappen, Interlagos, 2022
Russell scored Mercedes’ only win of 2022 at Interlagos
While the multiple world champions have enjoyed a much stronger 2023 than they endured last year, sitting just ahead of Ferrari in second place in the constructors’ championship, they land in Sao Paulo over 100 points further adrift of their fierce rivals Red Bull than they did at this same point in the season last year.

But it’s not just Russell and his team who are staring at the prospect of a winless year – Lewis Hamilton is close to seeing his second full season come and go without a single grand prix victory. He does at least have one last chance at the Las Vegas Grand Prix in a fortnight’s time before he reaches two full years since his last win at the 2021 Qatar Grand Prix – a striking drought for the most successful Formula 1 driver ever.

Fortunately for Mercedes, their prospects for ending their winless streak this weekend seem about the same as they were before they won the last Brazilian Grand Prix. After Hamilton was the closest to Verstappen in the 2022 Mexican Grand Prix, finishing second, before Mercedes won in Interlagos, Hamilton was once again second to Verstappen last weekend.

Advert | Become a RaceFans supporter and go ad-free

Haas hit the bottom

Kevin Magnussen, Haas, Interlagos, 2022
Magnussen scored a shock sprint race pole position
While Red Bull have romped to their best ever season in Formula 1 and perhaps the most dominant season of all time, it’s been a challenging year for their junior team, AlphaTauri. After struggling for performance in the early season relative to their rivals and replacing one of their drivers half way through the season, the team has gradually found more pace after the summer break.

In the space of just two weeks, AlphaTauri have more than doubled their points tally from the rest of the season. Yuki Tsunoda scored five points in the United States Grand Prix before Daniel Ricciardo moved them up from the bottom of the standings ahead of Haas last weekend in Mexico with a season-best seventh place finish. Now, they sit on equal points with Alfa Romeo, holding the tie-breaking advantage of having the best race finish.

That leaves Haas in the unenviable position of sitting in tenth and last place in the championship. While Nico Hulkenberg celebrated his 200th grand prix in Mexico with a hard fought race to 12th, team mate Kevin Magnussen suffered a heavy accident when his left-rear suspension failed. At least Magnussen has the chance to bounce back this weekend at the circuit where he secured a stunning pole position during Friday’s qualifying session back in 2022.

These final three rounds now become absolutely critical to deciding which teams will end the season in which order. All it takes is one result this weekend and that could be the difference between eighth, ninth or tenth.

Advert | Become a RaceFans supporter and go ad-free

Massa’s crusade

Although it hasn’t hosted a championship finale since 2013, Interlagos remains many fans’ preferred choice for the final round of the season. With its nature for producing exciting races and the general carnival atmosphere, the Sao Paulo circuit is often cited alongside Suzuka and even Adelaide as the very best venues to end the season.

Massa believes he was wrongly denied the 2008 title
But the most dramatic championship decider of the many held at the track was undoubtedly in 2008, when Hamilton only just clinched his first world title from Brazil’s own Felipe Massa after overtaking Timo Glock on the final corner of the final lap of the final round of the championship. While Massa’s flawless performance over the weekend was sadly not enough to secure him the championship at his home grand prix, the Ferrari driver was exceptionally graceful in defeat and earned the respect of many during that famous moment in F1’s history.

Fast-forward to 2023, however, and the ghosts of 2008 are haunting Formula 1 once more. After former F1 CEO Bernie Ecclestone claimed in an interview at the start of the year that he and former FIA president Max Mosley were aware that Nelson Piquet Jnr’s infamous ‘crashgate’ accident in the earlier Singapore Grand Prix was intentional, but had not acted to avoid a controversy over the results of the championship.

In August, Massa took legal action against both FOM and the FIA, with his legal representatives sending a letter before claim stating he had lost millions of euros in earnings after the Singapore Grand Prix incident cost him points which ultimately resulted in him losing the championship. Both bodies have been given an extended deadline to 12th November to respond to Massa’s legal team.

While there is unlikely to be any movement on the matter over this weekend, it will hard for F1 to avoid questions over such a famous and controversial page in the sport’s history – even if those leading the sport now are not the same as they were back in 2008.

Advert | Become a RaceFans supporter and go ad-free

Are you going to the Brazilian Grand Prix?

If you’re heading to Brazil for this weekend’s race, we want to hear from you:

Who do you think will be the team to beat in the Brazilian Grand Prix? Have your say below.

2023 Brazilian Grand Prix

Browse all 2023 Brazilian Grand Prix articles

Author information

Will Wood
Will has been a RaceFans contributor since 2012 during which time he has covered F1 test sessions, launch events and interviewed drivers. He mainly...

Got a potential story, tip or enquiry? Find out more about RaceFans and contact us here.

37 comments on “The race for runner-up is back on: Five Brazilian Grand Prix Talking Points”

  1. could be the last Sprint race, let’s hope!!

    1. fingers crossed

    2. lol

      The last experimental one maybe before they’re introduced as a fixed part of the race weekends.

      I know that F1 fans are even worse than Star Wars fans when it comes to change but that battle is long lost. Sprint races are a massive success for Liberty and they’re not going anywhere.

  2. Massa can’t turn up at the Interlagos circuit, right?
    Speaking of which, can reliable witness, reliable taxpayer and friend of Putin, Bernie Ecclestone? Can’t remember what circuits/countries he has to avoid now. Or maybe that’s Piquet Senior for his ‘momentary’ lapse into racist outbursts? So confusing. What a gallery though. Add Briatore to the mix and it’s an all star cast of people Formula 1 would rather forget.

    1. And yet, it was way more fun to watch F1 and its circus back then.. Everything feels so uninteresting outside of the races now.

    2. Coventry Climax
      1st November 2023, 22:19

      Please include Jean Marie Balestre and Max Mosley on that list.

      1. Now you’re scaring me since both are officially unlikely to turn up, even if invited.

    3. ‘Friend of Putin’? You know you can automatically dismiss the rest of the comment immediately. Why not just call him a Hamas supporter. LOL

      1. You havent heard what Ecclestone went on record about Putin? Multiple times?

      2. Ecclestone on Vlad:
        “I’d still take a bullet for him. I’d rather it didn’t hurt, but I would still take a bullet.”
        That’s after Russia invaded Ukraine incidentally.
        See the linked article if you need any more confirmation of his taste for ‘strong ‘uns’ (like Adolf).

    4. Every F1 team gladly went to Russia between 2014 and 2021 when it was already occupying large swathes of Ukraine. Not that far from Sochi, actually. Nobody in F1 can claim any moral high ground on this.

      1. Brother Brack
        2nd November 2023, 12:54

        We still race in America… we still have 3 races there… despite everything they’ve done.

      2. I’m not really talking about places and where F1 shouldn’t be held. I mean a list of inoffensive nation states would be tiny and unlikely to have serviceable race tracks. But that doesn’t mean they should be used explicitly for reputation laundering.
        I also think a line should always be drawn when the state where F1 events are held (or those of any international sport) bars, discriminates against or discourages supporters (or indeed participants) because of their identification with groups defined by ethnicity, religion, gender or sexual-orientation, etc.

  3. “While the multiple world champions have enjoyed a much stronger 2023 than they endured last year”

    Are you sure Mercedes have enjoyed a much stronger 2023?????
    So far they have scored 45 points less than last year after 19 races this despite 108 points more available (36 points per each of the 3 extra sprint races).
    In 2022 after 19 races (+2 sprint) 416 points now in 2023 after 19 races (+5 sprint) 371 points.
    In 2022 14 podiums and 34 point scores after 19 races now in 2023 it is just 7 podiums and 33 point scores.

    Given that Mercedes scored 99 points in the last 3 races of 2022 they need to score a massive 144 from 147 max available to match their 2022 points tally of 515 points so that will not happen.
    Lewis has a slightly better season (only 22 points more but 1 podium less) but Mercedes for sure not.

    And it is not that Red Bull that suddenly got massive amount of more points, they do have 75 more (43 more Sunday, 2 more FLAP and 30 more sprint).
    It is that the midfield came closer to the front – instead of 3 teams far away it is now 5 teams with Aston Martin banking 187 points more and McLaren 118 points more

    1st in 2022: 656 points
    2-3 in 2022: 885 points
    4-6 in 2022: 339 points
    7-10 in 2022: 128 points

    1st in 2023: 731 points
    2-3 in 2022: 720 points
    4-6 in 2022: 593 points
    7-10 in 2022: 72 points

    Mercedes and Ferrari failed to gain ground on Red Bull while initially Aston Martin and later McLaren were successful to gain ground on Mercedes/Ferrari.

    1. Just shows you much expectations and perceptions play into these things when media just assume / announce something like that as fact.

  4. “While Red Bull have romped to their best ever season in Formula 1 and perhaps the most dominant season of all time”

    In what measure is Red Bull season dominate – are we just looking at wins? Yes Red Bull has won 18 of 19 races but Mercedes won 19 of 21 races in 2016 whereby the 2 lost were purely due to their drivers colliding or mechanical failure.

    Red Bull so far scored 80.2% of maximum available, Mercedes was approx 85% in 2014-2016 with 2015 being 86%
    Red Bull so far scored 665 points (excl sprint/FLAP) in 2014-2016 & 2019 Mercedes had scored more after 19 races with 2015 being 703 points.
    Red Bull so far scored 26 podiums, Mercedes had 30+ podiums after 19 races in 2014, 2015 and 2019. 2016 saw 29 podiums (end of year 33) and even in 2021 they had 24 podiums after 19 races – 28 at end of season.

    McLaren had 15 out of 16 wins in 1988 and 25 podiums – of the 7 not podiums 5 were retirement. The next team often finished a minute or even a full lap behind.

    Max Verstappen is extremely dominant, Red Bull considerable less in 2023. The Red Bull doesn’t have a second or more advantage like past dominant cars had – they have an advantage on Sunday but still max 0.5 second a lap and only in the hands of Max.
    * Most wins
    * Most podiums
    * Most hattricks
    * Most wins from pole
    * Most points (% and absolute)
    * Most laps lead (% and absolute)

    1. That is correct. Teams are not loosing just to RedBull. They are loosing to Max more. That car in the hands of Max is unbeatable. Pick any other 2 drivers on the grid and put them in RedBull and we have a good constructors competition. Lewis is unable to accept that someone can drive better than him.

    2. This is pretty standard throughout F1 history that when you have a dominant car you usually have one driver who gels with the package more than the other and as a result they perform much better. See Mansell/Patresi, Schumacher/Herbert, Schumacher/Barrichello, Alonso/Trulli, Button/Barrichello, Vettel/Webber, Hamilton/Rosberg.

      Also Red Bull have absolutely had a second a lap advantage in races for most of the year. They might not have always had a huge qualifying advantage but in the race they have been unraceable at times. The stats on points claimed are skewed because Perez has been so utterly woeful this year and thrown away so many points. The headline years you picked out was when you had Hamilton and Rosberg consistently scoring. So far Red Bull have avoided putting a decent driver in the second seat which is why their overall scoring rate is not higher. The car is definitely one of the most dominant cars ever produced but why does it matter, F1 is a constructors championship as well as a driver championship.

      Mclaren in 1988 had the 2 best drivers in the sport racing in the fastest car that year. That’s what happens when you put 2 great drivers in a dominant car. Red Bull have yet to do that for some reason.

      1. Indeed, the bulletproof reliability and just how bad their teammate is in comparison is the only notable difference. It’s why I know someone is a new fan or just ignoring history when they call a season like this “unprecedented” or even more cluelessly, cite it ss evidence the rule change has failed.

        Anyway, I really hope Hamilton beats Checo for second as it’ll guarantee he won’t be back next season and we can have a change of pace in the RBR line up.

  5. Perez’s second place in play? – No unless he keeps on giving away high points opportunities.

    Sprint race finale – The most recent sprint was decently good, though, & I’m hopeful the next will be better.
    As for next season, I expect not only Interlagos, but also Red Bull Ring, & Losail to be among the six with sprint format, & I hope the other three would be Jeddah, Albert Park, & Yas Marina, or Suzuka instead of either Jeddah or Albert Park.

    A unhappy anniversary for Mercedes – I expect the respective victory droughts to continue not only beyond the upcoming GP, but the season finale.

    Haas hit the bottom – They can still regain P8 or 9, but remaining last until the end is more likely.

    Massa’s crusade – He should just let the matter go, unless he’s solely after financial compensation rather than overturning results belatedly.

    1. Massa’s crusade – He should just let the matter go, unless he’s solely after financial compensation rather than overturning results belatedly.

      Almost certainly this is only about the money – if he thought he stood a realistic chance of overturning the 2008 WDC he surely wouldn’t have sued in the English courts, which lack jurisdiction over the FIA.

  6. Massa can’t turn up at the Interlagos circuit, right?

    Why not?
    Piquet may be persona non-grata, but Massa is likely to be there.

    His attempt to trigger rules that don’t exist to change history doesn’t warrant an exclusion from the track.

    1. SteveP, he doesn’t have to be explicitly excluded – they can just decide that they do not want to invite him into the paddock.

      1. SteveP, he doesn’t have to be explicitly excluded – they can just decide that they do not want to invite him into the paddock.

        No one had mentioned the paddock. The comment from David BR was:

        Massa can’t turn up at the Interlagos circuit, right?

        and I noted that he hasn’t done anything illegal or offensive, unlike Piquet.

        1. You’re right, I was thinking ‘paddock’ and should have written that.

    2. He avoided the Monza GP this year. I suspect he’ll avoid the paddock for the Brazilian, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he was in the crowd.

  7. So looks like haas adds a lot of value that andretti doesn’t: being last in the championship, I don’t think andretti would manage to be that low!

    1. I don’t think andretti would manage to be that low!

      If Haas is around.. Andretti will always be second to last.

  8. Hamilton and Perez are not really “racing” for the 2nd place. Hamilton doesn’t care about it, whereas Perez does care, but he’s more focused about perfoming well during each individual weekend, because he can become vice-champion while still looking utterly terrible and deserving to be fired.

    1. And by being focused on performing well, stuff like mexico start happens and he gives hamilton a chance to catch up!

    2. I think it will be near impossible for Perez to retain that seat for 2024 if he doesn’t get 2nd in the WDC. Red Bull has broken tons of records this season, but they’ve never finished a season with their drivers 1-2 in the WDC. This is the best chance they’ve got of landing that result, and if Perez bombs in the last few races of the season and Hamilton beats Perez to #2 in the WDC race, then its guaranteed that Perez will get dumped by Red Bull even before they secure his replacement.

      1. Oh, he won’t have any chance of keeping the seat if he loves second. I think there’s a more than 50% chance he loses it even if he comes second, but it’s 99.9% if he loses it.

  9. While Horner and Marko ponder over replacements for Perez, why not put Alonso in that car even just for remaining races with a possible option for 2024.
    Everything is settled for this year, so why not let Alonso give it a go? Is it really contractually impossible? It would surely be a win win for all concerned, except Perez of course, but nothing now will save Perez imho.

  10. Alonso may be too expensive. If RB drops Perez, Ricciardo will take his place. Lawson will get the Alpha Tauri seat. This of course is my opinion based on a slow F1 day.

  11. Interesting take on the Perez question from Joe Saward and some Spanish media rumours (OK, I know) about, wait for it! Alonso maybe ‘surprise signing’ for Red Bull.
    He suggests Perez could have a ‘50% contract’ where if Perez fails to score 50% of Verstappen’s points, say, then they can rescind the contract. He currently has 48.8%.
    Probably nothing…

    1. Saward has been known to be wide of the mark, but he may well be right in this conjecture.

      1. It would be high risk, high reward for either driver in a Verstappen v. Alonso season. Partly why it’s difficult to imagine happening.

Comments are closed.