Daniel Ricciardo is frustrated he was not allowed to rejoin the lead lap at the restart of the Brazilian Grand Prix.
The AlphaTauri driver fell a lap down when he had to pit for repairs after incurring damage at the start of today’s race. On the next lap the race was red-flagged and the rest of the field came in.This meant that when the race restarted Ricciardo and Oscar Piastri, who pitted at the same time as him, resumed a lap behind the other drivers.
“I think firstly, it exposed a flaw or something in the rules because I didn’t feel like we ever did a racing lap and then you already start the race a lap down,” said Ricciardo. “Oscar and I fell victim to that today.
“Okay, it’s two of us today, but if 15 cars had damage and had to do what we did, are they going to start a race with 15 cars a lap down? I don’t think so. So I think they need to be a bit more open-minded. So that was frustrating.”
Ricciardo’s car was damaged when his rear wing was hit by a tyre which flew off during a collision between Alexander Albon and Kevin Magnussen.
“I was at the back so I saw quite early the smoke and the debris and the chaos and then I just remember seeing a wheel, I guess a tyre came off the rim, kind of like Frisbee-ing through the air and started coming closer. My instinct was to duck my head.
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“I didn’t feel anything hit me so I was like ‘alright, cool’. And then after turn one I checked the mirrors and I could see the rear wing was damaged. So I figured the tyre got the wing.”
He hoped his race might be saved after the red flags appeared. “We got the news it was a red flag so the team can hopefully repair it and they did a great job. And again, we were ready to go on time, but then they told us we were a lap down. So it’s really frustrating.”
His frustration was compounded by the performance his car showed. Ricciardo’s team mate Yuki Tsunoda finished ninth.
“We were, I want to say, exceptionally fast today. We couldn’t always show it because we were a lap down and having to play the team game of course, not get in the way of obviously Yuki’s race or even other cars around us.
“But the times that we did have some clear air, especially towards the end there was a couple of laps where I was able to show my speed and… frustratingly fast. So I feel for the team.
“Me, my championship, I’m not in the championship hunt but I’m here to help the team get seventh in the championship and I felt I could have heavily contributed today so it’s just a shame the rules written the way they are at the moment and there doesn’t seem to be any flexibility.”
Ricciardo believes AlphaTauri “could have got a lot of points” if he’d been allowed to rejoin the lead lap. “I don’t want to be the story of ‘could have, would have, should have’ but at least on pace. Our pace spoke, hopefully, volumes that we could have moved through the field quite well, I believe.”
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2023 Brazilian Grand Prix
- Perez’s missed “open goal” in Miami was turning point in title fight – Horner
- F1 drivers insist new rules to prevent impeding in qualifying don’t work
- McLaren surprised by margin over rivals at track Norris thought would be “tough”
- “Follow Fernando’s line” – How Red Bull tried everything to get Perez past Alonso
- Mercedes’ Brazilian GP set-up was “conservative” after US GP disqualification
Yes (@come-on-kubica)
5th November 2023, 22:31
I have no idea why ricciardo and piastri got so screwed over. They could do nothing with their race.
grat
5th November 2023, 22:43
Given that they were a lap down, I really don’t know why they restarted. The only hope for getting back on the lead lap would have been another safety car.
SjaakFoo (@sjaakfoo)
5th November 2023, 22:44
They need p13 and 14, only 3 retirements from points.
Facts&Stats
6th November 2023, 9:02
That’s exactly the problem between a SC and Red Flag. During a SC they allow lapped cars to unlap themselves at the restart, whilst during a Red Flag this is not allowed.
I’d say, if you’re a lap behind, you are a lap behind, and no reason to get a free (unlapping) gift, it’s already a freebie fest for all drivers behind the leader as soon as he’s behind the SC.
PS There was a fair chance to have another safety car; there was a lot of close wheel-to-wheel fighting, but all kept it clean. Thus restarting made a lot of sense.
Dex
6th November 2023, 10:12
How you mean? Safety cars aren’t rare, they had like 50-50% chance to see a new safety car. Why wouldn’t they race? And they would have to race anyway, because of the sponsors; it’s not a recreational sport. We were only 5 laps or so into the race man, there was plenty of time. This time it didn’t happen, that is all.
Axel
5th November 2023, 22:45
Someone who knows the rulebook better than me can back me up or correct me, but I think it is because they were not running when the race restarted. They were not racing a lap down but were in the pits being repaired. Thus their pit lane start merely allowed them to rejoin the race, but as they were not in the running yet they did not have the right to unlap yourself.
Nathaniel
6th November 2023, 2:54
With a reply like that you clearly didn’t read the article or watch the race. Ricciardo just said his car was ready to go for the restart. Both Oscar and Dan drove the restart formation lap before pitting to line up at the pit exit and wait for the start.
Nev
6th November 2023, 7:02
They missed a lap under SC, I believe. Also because they had to go in the garage for repairs instead of repairing on the grid/ pit lane then they had to start from the pit exit and were not released until the last car passed the SC line, this put them both a lap down and an additional 30-50% behind as well. IMO they should have been allowed to do an extra formation lap to unlap themselves and rejoin the grid or at least start from the pit exit.
Martin Hughes
6th November 2023, 14:45
It was because the car was pulled from the ribbon to be repaired in the garage. As soon as that happens they, effectively, go a lap down. The other option is to try and repair the car in pit lane, like they did with Hulk.
Facts&Stats
6th November 2023, 9:28
Almost right! It was because they were ‘not running’ when the race was ‘Red Flagged’ (rather than ‘restarted’) . DR and OP lost a lap under SC before the lap 2 Red Flag, as they entered the pit* early for repairs (or intended retirement in Piastri’s case) after lap 1!
PS a bit childish of Nathaniel stating that “you clearly didn’t read the article or watch the race”
* actually all other cars also entered the pit, but they followed the SC out of it again.
Keith Campbell (@keithedin)
5th November 2023, 23:16
@come-on-kubica Maybe a quirk of the rules they could look at resolving for next time. But are you allowed to refuel during a red flag? If not, then cars which were a lap behind could theoretically gain an advantage by using a lap less of fuel (even at non-racing speeds), if fuel management is an issue.
Responding to others – teams usually choose to keep running cars even when they have no realistic chance of points – either holding out for a safety car or another red flag. But it is also useful testing, and especially for Ricciardo he needs to get mileage both to get himself up to speed, and for the team to have comparisons between him and Tsunoda.
Jere (@jerejj)
6th November 2023, 6:45
@come-on-kubica Beats me too, as not letting them rejoin the lead lap is totally against the standard procedure, not to mention race control went against that without a justifiable reason.
SjaakFoo (@sjaakfoo)
5th November 2023, 22:44
During a safety car they let cars unlap themselves, I see no reason why this couldn’t be done artificially during a red flag with a standing restart.
Jere (@jerejj)
6th November 2023, 6:44
Unlapping is a normal procedure also in red-flagging situations.
David (@nvherman)
6th November 2023, 8:28
@sjaakfoo @jerejj It’s really very simple: if Ricciardo and Piastri had not had to have their cars worked on in the garage, they would have been in their race positions in the queue at the end of the pit lane. However, the rule is, that as soon as your car is removed from the queue and moved into the garage, it’s a pit lane start.
As from a red flag situation, the rule now is for the cars to drive another formation lap (which checks another lap off the run time) and do a standing start from the grid, which those who are starting from the pit lane do not do, that is why they were a lap down.
Whether the rules should be changed so that the pit lane starters run the formation lap and go back into the pits is a different question, but a pit lane start on the initial start wouldn’t have that, so that would make it an anomaly.
Also, at least there was time to repair Ricciardo and Piastri’s cars due to the red flag, which if the red flag hadn’t happened, there would not have been, so frankly they should be greatful they could restart at all
Facts&Stats
6th November 2023, 9:37
That’s only the case if the the race is restarted behind the SC (then the SC rules apply).
When a standing start is called, the rules are different, and do NOT include unlapping.
PS DR wasn’t allowed to unlap himself in AD’21, but that was later confirmed to be an incorrect decision by the RD.
PPS I would never allow unlapping; lapped cars don’t deserve a freebie and it mostly causes delays during the restart. There were even instances where unlapped cars had an advantage as they could heat up the tyres quicker than the cars at the end of the queue.
Jere (@jerejj)
6th November 2023, 11:13
Facts&Stats In all other post-red flag standing restart cases, lapped drivers were allowed to unlap themselves & I disagree with your argument about not deserving a freebie, especially as getting lapped wasn’t even their fault.
Facts&Stats
6th November 2023, 11:52
AFAIK before Brazil there has only been one Red Flag standing restart (Mexico 2023) and there were no lapped cars.
In Zandvoort they decided to have a rolling restart, but even in that case all cars were on the leading lap and on track when the flag came out.
Which race and standing restart are you referring to?
MadMax (@madmax)
6th November 2023, 12:18
It cant matter, whether its someones fault or not.
Bullfrog (@bullfrog)
5th November 2023, 23:37
Easier to go and race in IMSA – they’ll give you your lap back – than try and rescue your F1 career and change the rules.
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
6th November 2023, 0:34
There’s a precedent in what he says. If a Safety Car period allows lapped cars to gain their lap back why not a red flag restart? I think it’s reasonable to allow them to start at the back of the grid on the same lap as everyone.
zsim (@zakfsim)
6th November 2023, 2:21
Further to that point, the lap the rest of the field completed wasn’t even a full racing nor SC lap, it was basically a “RF – return to the pits” lap.
If they have to physically complete the lap, when it’s safe, let them circle around with a few minutes left in red flag and join the back of the grid in the pits or then have them restart in the pits
With the red flags becoming more common it’s just exposing some of the quirks in the rules. Small changes like this would just benefit F1 for sporting and entertainment purposes. It doesn’t add value competitively nor is it entertaining having cars a lap down for the entire race even after a race stops.
David (@nvherman)
6th November 2023, 8:29
@fer-no65 If Ricciardo and Piastri had not had to have their cars worked on in the garage, they would have been in their race positions in the queue at the end of the pit lane. However, the rule is, that as soon as your car is removed from the queue and moved into the garage, it’s a pit lane start.
As from a red flag situation, the rule now is for the cars to drive another formation lap (which checks another lap off the run time) and do a standing start from the grid, which those who are starting from the pit lane do not do, that is why they were a lap down.
Whether the rules should be changed so that the pit lane starters run the formation lap and go back into the pits is a different question, but a pit lane start on the initial start wouldn’t have that, so that would make it an anomaly.
Also, at least there was time to repair Ricciardo and Piastri’s cars due to the red flag, which if the red flag hadn’t happened, there would not have been, so frankly they should be greatful they could restart at all.
Dusty
6th November 2023, 16:24
Both Ricc and Oscar drove the formation lap and returned to the pits for their pit lane restart.
David (@nvherman)
6th November 2023, 19:03
My apologies, the lap they missed was lap 2, when the race was red flagged.
Nick T.
6th November 2023, 18:33
Grateful? That’s terrible logic. The red flag was caused by the very incident that damaged them in an incident they were wholly not a cause of.
David (@nvherman)
6th November 2023, 19:04
So what? Was Russell at fault in Qatar?
Nulian
6th November 2023, 0:48
This should learn teams to keep your broken cars on track and keep them running till red flag.
Even though it might be dangerous for the driver or other cars.
F180 (@f180)
6th November 2023, 1:23
Massi would have allowed it.
Nick T.
6th November 2023, 3:45
I was flummoxed that none of the commentators seemed to realize they’d be a lap down when the race restarted despite both immediately coming in, which BTW was an obvious mistake when you know a RF is certain and you’re driving under SC, which means it’s not a safety issue.
Matt (@hollidog)
6th November 2023, 12:34
Absolutely, it was obvious the race would be red-flagged after one look at that barrier. Why not just keep the cars circulating at the back until the red and repair them in the pitlane? With all the chaos that must’ve been going on I doubt they would have been meatballed.
Dusty
6th November 2023, 16:28
Riccs engineering was saying “if we have red flag we can fix your wing, otherwise we need to retire the car”. When they drove through the pits Ricc was instructed to stop the car, got pulled back to the garage and told to wait in the car just in case there was a red flag.
They were counting on the red flag but didn’t make the decision to just follow de SC queue until it was confirmed, indeed this was a big miss.
Jere (@jerejj)
6th November 2023, 6:43
He couldn’t be more right, especially considering the rules clearly require unlapping, & race control had zero justification for not letting them back on the lead lap as per the standard procedure in both SC & race suspensions.
Katie
6th November 2023, 7:10
But the reason they were a lap down was because they went into the garage, not because of when they pitted! Either the author doesn’t understand the rules, or Ricciardo doesn’t – or maybe both!
Dusty
6th November 2023, 16:33
They went a lap down because their cars were stopped while the leader completed an extra lap behind the SC. If they went to the garage at the end of lap 2 instead of at the end of lap 1 they wouldn’t be a lap down.
roadrunner (@roadrunner)
6th November 2023, 18:04
Which rule is that? I don’t know it and I can’t remind any precedent. I think you’re referring to a safety car restart
AdrianMorse (@adrianmorse)
6th November 2023, 8:10
I think allowing them to unlap themselves would be cumbersome (and here it was one lap, but what if they had done another lap under the SC, would Piastri and Ricciardo first have to do two laps then, before the race can be restarted?).
In my opinion, McLaren and Alpha Tauri failed to play the “safety car game” yesterday. We’ve seen it frequently in the past few years: there is heavy crash, and the safety car is quickly summoned. The question for the teams is then: do you pit your cars immediately, or keep them out in case there is a red flag so you can change your tyres anyway without losing any positions. In this case, if it was possible to keep their cars going (safely) at safety car speeds, they should have done so, because they had nothing to lose: they intended to retire anyway, so they might as well stick around for a lap or two to see if a red flag is thrown.
Drop Saudi
6th November 2023, 8:25
This is the correct interpretation. The red flag did not cause them to lose positions, their pitting did.
Jere (@jerejj)
6th November 2023, 11:13
Drop Saudi Although pitting necessity wasn’t their fault.
drmouse (@drmouse)
6th November 2023, 8:15
I think there’s a good argument to be had to allow cars to unlap themselves on a red flag. They would have to actually complete another lap, because they’d have a fuel advantage otherwise, but it could be done
That said, the reason for allowing lapped cars to unlap at safety car restarts is so that they are out of the way of the leaders, and many on here have argued they should be made to drop to the back instead of allowed to unlap.
Also, for me, this exposes show decision making from race control more than anything else. There have been several situations recently where RC have thrown a safety car, waited a couple of laps, and then suspended the race, when it was pretty obvious that a red flag would needed. This has caused a disadvantage to at least one car every time. It shouldn’t take a full lap under the safety car to decide to suspend the race.
MichaelN
6th November 2023, 10:01
While it can be hard to get a quick read on the situation at times, it is usually quite obvious, indeed. That they sometimes wait with the SC if there is a lap 1 incident is understandable as the cars are all bunched up anyway, but the number of times that they’ve gone from SC into Red has needs some improvement. It completely changes the decision making for the teams.
Tristan (@skipgamer)
6th November 2023, 9:51
There is flexibility in the rules though, that’s one part of the whole Masi situation that didn’t really change in the end, race director has discretion in these kind of situations to do whatever he wants really.
The issue, as always, is application of the rules and common sense not pulling through in the end. Can’t win them all I guess, tough day at the office for the Aussies.
JOA20
6th November 2023, 11:23
I was very confused when the race restarted. If the safety car allows lapped cars to unlap themselves, I don’t see why red flags shouldn’t. Starting from pit lane is big enough of a setback. Perhaps they should rework the rules so that lapped cars can unlap themselves during red flags, as long as they actually do it and take the “formation lap” as well. Sure, that’d mean they probably wouldn’t line up at the end of the pit lane in time for the actual restart… Like, Ricciardo and Piastri would get out of the pit lane after the others, be allowed to pass them on the way to the grid at a safe enough pace, go through the finish line and take another lap while the other cars line up on the grid, being allowed to go at full speed only after lights go out (or, in case of a rolling restart, after the leading car passes the finish line).
dutchtreat (@dutchtreat)
6th November 2023, 12:19
At least we all agree that Ricciardo would have “easily” won the race if it was not for putting him a lap down.
Rick
6th November 2023, 14:11
Certainly would have got good points. He got on Yuki’s tail by about lap 30.
Erkr
7th November 2023, 0:13
Would have been good for 10th but Yuki revealed he was having clutch issues which prevented him from chasing Lewis
Francesco (@schivo69)
7th November 2023, 8:48
It is worth mentioning that his race pace was penalised by running 71 laps in clean air, every f1 expert knows how hard it is.
Lapov Onor
6th November 2023, 13:41
OK, waiting for the bullets to come my way for this, but when red flagging (at end of lap 2) isn’t the order for the restart as at the end of previous lap (lap 1) at which point both Ricciardio and Pastori had merely pitted? Them not taking lap 2 is surely immaterial as lap 2 is discarded in racing terms and merely considered as part of the covered distance due to fuel tank being ‘sealed’ for the race, so the lead cars don’t run out?
Not an avid reader of the F1 rule book, but just going by what has been said previously and then making an interpretation.
SteveP
7th November 2023, 8:28
I think the current situation is taken from the last point at which a position determination can be made before the red flag.
IIRC Australia was taken from a sector or micro-sector running order. There was a bit of “debate” at the time.
Lapov Onor
7th November 2023, 13:12
Thank you for that, which then backs up the position of Sunday rather than the scenario I outlined.
Even sundays are school days ;-) Much appreciated SteveP
Dec
6th November 2023, 13:52
And McLaren were using Oscar to work out the tyre performance to help Lando
Mike Höfer
6th November 2023, 16:37
It is indeed a bit of a strange “Sport”, where zou need a lawzer by your side at all times. I have read all the comments and appreciate the indept knowledge of rules and regulations by most of the educated commentators here. Therefore I shall not argue the correct or incorrect or questionable application of the rulebook, but wonder if it is still a “Sport”, especially thinking about what would have happened, for example, if a similar situation would have hit Verstappen or Hamilton. Is it possible that rules would have changed because of the “caliber” or “position” of the drivers or rather would it have been possible NOT to applz the same rules with such sober correctness?? Just wondering ….
Jonathan Parkin
6th November 2023, 18:17
I don’t want to seem like these ‘it was better in my day’ people, but when I started watching F1 the rules were so much simpler.
In 1998, if there was an incident on Lap 1 that required a red flag it had to be thrown at the latest on Lap 2. Because if you went over to Lap 3 then you had aggregate time to deal with.
A red flag within 2 laps meant a fresh race run to the original race distance – in this case 71 laps. The race clock would also stop and restart from zero – I don’t know where this ridiculous rule of not stopping the clock came from but I wish they’d get rid of it
SteveP
7th November 2023, 8:33
Back in the days of refuelling…
I think that stems from a massively delayed race that finished hours after the TV slot was supposed to have finished.
Got to keep the TV people happy, particularly the ones with a popular soap opera likely to get rescheduled. Advertisers are happy if the extension keeps viewers there while their ad is shown, so that’s less of a worry.
Mike Cody
8th November 2023, 17:23
It seems quite simple to me. The other cars drove a lap behind the SC, they did not. Therefore, they were a lap behind the other cars.