Teams remain opposed to Andretti entry despite Cadillac’s new engine plans

Formula 1

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Cadillac’s announcement it intends to enter Formula 1 as an engine manufacturer has not persuaded sceptical teams to accept a new rival on the grid.

Last month the FIA approved Andretti’s bid to enter F1 as a new, 11th team. Andretti previously announced it would bring Cadillac with it as a branding partner.

While F1 and most teams have been resistant to expanding the grid, they have been more welcoming towards the General Motors brand. “I think every single new engine supplier is welcome in F1,” said Ferrari team principal Frederic Vasseur today. “But it’s not the same story as the 11th team. It’s two separate questions. I think the real question is on the engine suppliers and we can have a new engine supplier.”

This week GM reinforced its commitment to F1, saying it had applied to enter as an engine manufacturer in 2028. However it also said it will only enter F1 with Andretti.

Teams say they have not yet been persuaded F1 should allow an 11th team to enter. “GM is one of the big players, no doubt, and I guess if they say they want to join the sport in ’28, they are serious about it,” said Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff. “It’s a good commitment.”

“But we’ve got to see whether the commercial rights holder deems this to be a good entry or not,” he added. “For many teams it’s a big dilution which can make the difference between big losses or less losses and I haven’t changed my opinion on that.

“We haven’t seen any data. Just to say ‘it’s going to be awesome’ – where’s the case? What are the numbers? How much can we gain in popularity? What’s the name worth? How much more can the sport be attractive?

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“What’s the facts? And if those facts are positive, I have no doubt that F1 consider it in that way.”

Williams team principal James Vowles, who has previously said adding an 11th team would be a financial risk for F1, echoed Wolff’s view. “GM, I think, is a good company to bring into our sport. We have no discussions with them, but I just think they’re the sort of company, the sort of OEM that will grow our sport as a result of things.

“But my view hasn’t changed on the additional 11th team, fundamentally. It’s still around the finances of Williams, which is where my focus is.”

Andretti still plans to bring its team into F1 at the earliest available opportunity – potentially 2025 – three years before Cadillac, meaning it would require another power unit in the meantime. Haas team principal Guenther Steiner said that leaves a question mark over whether Andretti should be allowed in before the GM brand.

“I think it’s good news that GM wants to come into Formula 1,” he said. “I don’t know the exact detail of how this process works because I never looked into it to do an engine in my life.”

“I don’t know if it change something because I don’t know the details of this,” Steiner added.. “It’s ’28: What is happening until ’28?”

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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28 comments on “Teams remain opposed to Andretti entry despite Cadillac’s new engine plans”

  1. No championship that has FIA World Championship status should ever be beholden to “whether the commercial rights holder deems this to be a good entry or not” when the Governing Body has presented no objection.

    Something has seriously gone array. It’ll never happen, but F1’s FIA World Championship status should really be questioned.

    1. Indeed, they have kidnapped this championship and it’s now an NBA-like franchise show instead of an open competition. This cannot be called the “World championship”, but then, NBA considers itself to be exactly that lol. Still, since this is a competition under FIA jurisdiction, something should be done.
      F1 doesn’t belong to commercial rights owners, F1 doesn’t belong to the teams either. If they don’t like competing, perhaps they should pack and go? I couldn’t care less if Mercedes or Ferrari were competing or not to be honest, I wouldn’t mind seeing them replaced by new teams that are actually hungry for racing.

    2. 100% agree. I’ve been around a while, and this is a poverty compared to when we had the likes of Hesketh or Minardi. Another depressing change, which I know is a different issue yet feels similarly limiting, is the move to spec classes for everything but the very top level. There was a regular family-car mechanic in my Buenos Aires neighborhood who designed and built a F2 car in his garage. It gave me and the other local kids a sense of possibility, and we saw that car come together step by step. Horacio Pagani did the same, he built a F2 of his own design while he was a 22 year old employee of a camper van factory. It all seems so impossible now.

  2. This is almost like crappy movie villains. Clearly hindering a good plan simply to help their own goal regardless of all the good that might come from said plan, while trying to make it sound like they are thinking about the greater good.

  3. Pure unadulterated greed.

    1. So what, this is F1. Get over it. Instead of just throwing a team onto the grid, and then all of a sudden GM decides to be an engine supplier in 28 without dealing with the concerns if those already in the grid is silly. If the teams and fom are not convinced game over.

  4. The fans absolutely want more teams on the grid. Fan interest will generate revenue.

    1. As someone pointed out on another post here, the only “fans” F1 is interested in attracting are the gold plated variety.

  5. BLS (@brightlampshade)
    17th November 2023, 18:39

    Can the FIA say that the budget cap only applies to teams that get the money from Liberty. Otherwise I’m not sure what else they can do, other than not sanction liberty’s favourite race tracks until they let Andretti in.

  6. We’ll have a 3rd Red Bull team before an outside group is let in.

  7. Within two days of Aston Martin’s F1 team being valued at 1.2 Billion Dollars, Wolff can claim that the teams are in financial danger?

    Really, Toto?

  8. It has come to the point where the F1 champion should not be called a world champion.

    If the world is not allowed to participate than you don’t have a world champion.

    Participation should be on merit and not controlled by competitors veto.

    Imagine Usain Bolt in his prime being able to say who he would run the 100 metres against. Be a mockery, just like the F1 world champion title is currently.

    1. Well, I think that’s on the basis they compete all over the world and drivers from all over the world can compete. However, I agree, as soon as you start banning new potential competitors, you begin devaluing what it means to be champion.

  9. Interesting comments considering Stroll just sold interest in the team he bought for about $100 million 5 years ago based on a valuation of $1 billion but sure, keep saying you are concerned about diluting the value of your teams.

  10. It’s crazy how we’ve ended up in this situation where we are actively hindering new teams from joining when we were desperate for new teams joining 10 years ago.

    1. And interestingly back then the issue was that those teams struggled to survive due the nature of the sport. Now that’s changed and it’s like a utopia almost for a team to run in F1, and because if that’s they’ve closed off the possibility of anyone “diluting” it.

      My main favour for more teams has always been to test new and more talent, give more opportunities. So as long as new teams aren’t running mazepins and lafiti types then it’s great.

      Would make reverse grids pretty hectic too :P

  11. “WORLD constructors championship”??? There is nothing “world”ly if it’s a closed circle.

  12. This is just silly. WEC is hitting capacity grids and yet they welcome Aston Martin as ninth! car brand without hesitation. Oh yes, Glickenhaus has folded, Vanwall may follow soon but that happens. Honestly I do not know what is the income structute of WEC team, if they get anything from TV rights, trackside advertising etc. But this resistance in F1 is almost painful for me. Are they afraid that Cadillac will beat them straight out of the box? Did somebody ask Toto or Christian for their opinion back in 2015 when Haas wanted to join? At the time when more than half of the field was just surviving and Ferrari was wasting 400 milions on loosing the championship. If Williams or Haas folds as a consequence of Andretti entering the sport then I am OK with that. We’ve already lost Lotus, Ligier or Brabham amongst others. There is budget cap and so many restrictions on car design, development, materials, that I really don’t get their stance against Andretti. Teams are not the owners of this championship, they are not the owners of the sport.

  13. how can someone not root against every F1 team that holds this opinion? plus, how aggravating is it after a lap once incident when theres like 16 cars running.

  14. Michael Casey Merritt
    17th November 2023, 21:25

    The aspect of dilusion of money is totally out of line Ferrari gets a set amount every year for being in the sport since the start of F1. Red Bull and Mercedes get a bigger share due to final placement at the end of the year (based on year entd contructors and driver points). What value does Hass or Alpine bring? So a better team is not allowed due to their inability to field a competitive car? And why are they not promoting Logan Seargent as the only American in F1? It is clear that this is a European club who loves the infusion of American dollars with 3 GP’s, but wants to do it with their own cars. Sad state of affairs. It has soured this lifelong (62 years old) fan of F1, and if it continues on the course that it is going I will not support it any longer

    1. Good point about Sargent. It seems their strategy to bring F1 further across the US was never caring much about an American driver or team. Perhaps smart, but to actively make it difficult is odd. Maybe they think Sargent is a pay driver that won’t be around for long so they don’t much? Who knows

    2. It’s been clear for a long time they want American money but not participation

  15. If Andretti will not be accepted that will be the final nail in the coffin for me.

  16. This is nothing short of embarrassing – on an already incredibly embarrassing weekend.

    1. “You just can’t see the big picture” says Toto. I’ll be laughing when F1 lose this in an EU court or throw in the towel as soon as it’s clear that’s where it’s going.

  17. F1 has lost its way, deeply, in so many respects. Nothing has changed over the last few years. I’m very close to switching off from this rich man’s entertainment product. I’m attracted to the best being the best, but if the best are afraid of allowing competition that meet the already rigged requirements to compete, how can they possibly call themselves that?

    More and more there is simply nothing at all sporting about F1.

    We are so far from the origin of the sport where anyone could bring a car and do the talking in qualifying.

  18. This is going from greedy to sleazy.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if Williams tries to start talks with GM.

    “Sorry Andretti you’re not allowed into the party, its strictly invite only…
    What’s that?…
    You brought your girl?…
    Well, she’s allowed in. But you stay outside.”

  19. I think is this all far less logical than greed, because even greed would have to factor in that the Andretti name would bring in a lot more USA pie than they would lose per slice.

    This smells a lot more like more basic human elistism and exclusionism.

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