Max Verstappen remains confident Red Bull can continue to improve the performance of their RB20 as team principal Christian Horner admitted they are chasing ever smaller gains.
Horner said they are finding “diminishing returns” from their development programme in the third year under the current technical regulations. However Verstappen, who used the only example of a revised floor the team introduced last weekend, won’t accept the idea they can’t keep improving their car.“I refuse to believe so because then you get lazy,” he said in response to a question from RaceFans.
“I’m confident that everyone within the factory, they’re always pushing flat-out to try and bring bits of performance to the car. But clearly there are a lot of smart people in the world in other teams that are also doing the same thing.”
Red Bull were the team to beat for much of the opening races. However they have only set the quickest outright lap time once in the last five races as McLaren and Mercedes have closed on them.
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Since the beginning of last year, as Red Bull have consistently led the constructors’ championship, their rival have had the benefit of more aerodynamic development time under F1’s performance-balancing rules. Red Bull’s development time was cut further as part of their punishment for exceeding F1’s budget cap in 2021.
“Naturally it [would] always help to have more time,” Verstappen admitted. “But that’s how the rules are to try and slow down the winning team.
“Honestly, when you are the ones chasing, you’re happy that it’s like that, and of course when you’re the ones leading and then you’re being caught up during the season, you naturally look at it like it’s not what you want. But that’s how the rules are written, everyone agreed with it and you just have to deal with it.
Verstappen believes Red Bull’s true potential last weekend was obscured by the fact he damaged his car’s floor in qualifying and practice was disrupted by rain.
“We can see the gain,” he said. “I think just this weekend has been a little bit hit-and-miss with just trying a few bits with the car. And then, of course, the weather doesn’t help.
“But when you look at it, if we wouldn’t have had damage to the floor we would have definitely been in the fight for pole. So that is a positive.
“We just need to keep pushing. We need to keep bringing bits, and I know they will come, and hopefully they will be a little bit better than the other upgrades of the other teams.”
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2024 British Grand Prix
- The ‘good and bad’ reason Piastri is sure he can win after three near-misses
- Gasly solved mystery handling problem by using Ocon’s settings
- Mercedes “will be in an even stronger position” after next upgrade – Hamilton
- Verstappen “refuses to believe” Red Bull are reaching limit of RB20’s potential
- Why “under construction” McLaren still celebrate third place after missing a win
Edvaldo
10th July 2024, 12:35
They probably had a not so good update along the way, just like Ferrari.
Robbie1
10th July 2024, 14:23
I cannot describe how much I despise F1’s new policy of punishing excellence and rewarding incompetence.
If I had my say the sliding ATR scale is removed with immediate effect, teams should only be allowed to buy engines and FIA mandated standard parts and the technical rules should be changed significantly for each new year so in case you blunder for one year you can come back the next.
But that’s just me, apparently the show is now what it’s all about, not engineering prowess.
slowmo (@slowmo)
10th July 2024, 15:14
The ATR scale is the only mechanism we have to allow teams to catch up now. Personally I think they just need to unfreeze engine development and have a significant rule change now the budget cap is up and running. The last rule change didn’t take full effect under budget caps so 3 teams stole a march on everyone else. I’d also like to see some mechanisms on allowing more investment in facilities for teams further down the grid as at present the budget cap locks in advantages of the teams with the best facilities too.
Coventry Climax
10th July 2024, 16:15
Not true, fortunately, not even depending on your definition of ‘mechanism’. The FiA are trying their ‘best’ though.
In a sports, the mechanism that matters is the competitive attitude of trying to beat any of the other contestants.
That mechanism is still there I should hope, although I confess I sometimes have my doubts, given the way some teams seem to operate. Maybe their version of ‘beating the other contestants’ solely considers their spending/returns balance?
The rewards for fighting on track certainly aren’t there anymore, in the same way they used to be.
Robbie1
10th July 2024, 16:21
I disagree on the ATR mechanism that only rewards incompetence.
If the rules change significantly year on year teams who fail one year can put all their efforts in the next and we will see a much more diverse pallet of winners over the years.
What happens with stable rules is teams nailing the regs and other only closing in after a year or two , and only thanks to the ATR nonsense instead of ingenuity.
F1 used to be an engineering competition where the racing/show was a bonus and I would love to go back to that era.
If I wanna see old cars in basically a spec series I can watch Indycar.
slowmo (@slowmo)
10th July 2024, 18:39
Fine then lets get rid of the budget cap and let teams spend whatever they like to catch up, innovate and “be the best”. The reason we have limits on testing and modelling is because of teams like Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes who simply pushed the boundaries of spending to levels none of their competitors could fueled by the sponsorship and income their prior success generated. That was never a long term sustainable model as spending sky rocketed in the early 2000’s.
The days of plucky team innovating and finding the edge on a shoestring are gone and the sport had to move on in some way. Personally I would like the budget cap to be properly enforced with less loopholes and then by all means remove most of the rules on testing limits and let the teams do whatever they can within their budgets. Same with the component usage, they were brought in to stop teams wasting resources using an engine every race, simply allow the budget cap to restrict usage. If someone then decides they want to use 8 power units throughout the year for more power but sacrifice their aero development, so be it.
anon
11th July 2024, 6:42
@slowmo did “The days of plucky team innovating and finding the edge on a shoestring” even really exist in the way that people claim they did to begin with? Posters seem to be quick to eulogise about that, but getting them to actually provide examples of that happening seems to be rather more difficult.
Crnberry
11th July 2024, 8:39
Hear Hear!
I also think the budget cap should be used to force teams to choose what their strengths and weaknesses are, and just live with their decision and get the best results they can with their choices.
Another way teams have been denied any sort of development is the fuel flow limit. Why not just demand that the cars have certain levels of emissions, like civilian cars do. Some might bring up VW, but I say the threat of team disqualification would discourage such foolishness.
The car battery is another one, and as it will only play an ever bigger role in the foreseeable future, why not regulate that anything inside the battery casing must be non-toxic and bio degradable, then let the propeller hats start propelling…
Keithedin
11th July 2024, 9:16
The ATR has a pretty minimal effect on teams’ performance, and that’s by design. The top teams would never have agreed to it otherwise, and if it did have a significant impact, we would likely see teams throwing constructors positions at the end of a season to benefit in the next. But at the end of last season you could see Mercedes and Ferrari still fighting to get second in the championship, which tells you they value the prestige and prize money over the wind tunnel time.
Also, when Redbull had the lowest allocation after 2022 and an additional penalty due to the budget overspend, they came out in 2023 and had the most dominant campaign of all time in terms in victories. So, all things considered, I don’t think the TFA is really a big factor in overall performance.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
12th July 2024, 10:13
Yes, I think that’s true, I was following the ferrari-merc battle and I thought it would be pretty disappointing if they weren’t interested in beating the opponent because of wind tunnel limitation.
grat
12th July 2024, 15:32
That would certainly be one way to permanently entrench the current disparity between the top 3-5 teams and the bottom teams.
Stable rules are the only way the field converges.
slowmo (@slowmo)
10th July 2024, 15:09
This is just an opinion as there is no data really to back it up but my suspicion is the Red Bull just has a very fine window for optimum performance and the most recent races they’ve not been able to get the required time to tune the performance. Mclaren and Mercedes I think have a significantly wider operating window for their package and they likely understand how to mitigate issues better having spent the last 2 years chasing their tails down various wrong avenues to catch Red Bull.
Obviously there is some convergence of ideas happening and there is likely a view that teams still have their eyes on 2026 even now as that is a very real chance for any team to take a huge step forward ahead of everyone else.
Tristan
10th July 2024, 23:34
I bet Newey could find some gains…
DB-C90 (@dbradock)
11th July 2024, 1:45
You beat me to it.
I thought I was the only one that had noticed that things have deteriorated since he was sidelined.
Similar to what happened a few years back during a season where he was less involved.
George.be
11th July 2024, 9:33
Sure, Mr Newey would have ideas on how to improve, but that is probably not the only/main issue. Being limited on testing and spending, and delays in production of new parts might slow Redbull up in closing the gap to gains found by innovations by the competition. If the competition found a way to get a more efficient front wing that moves in a certain way, but is found legal, that only works with a certain suspension and floor, then the re-design, testing and production might cost RB time… Even when Mr Newey was fully on board, RB had years in the past, where they had a months long slump in performance, to bounce back if full force…
slowmo (@slowmo)
11th July 2024, 10:13
It’s a compelling argument that prior to Newey’s arrival at the team they were nowhere and once he arrived they have consistently had one of the best aero packaged cars. Now he’s leaving we’ll see if the Newey affect does indeed go with him.
The interesting counter point is how Mercedes since putting Allison back in charge have started taking more strides forwards and seem to now have got on top of their design and are making progress. The key personnel in the team might not necessarily do the majority of the work but they drive the entire team forward refining processes and making the key calls and once you lose a good leader, performance can slump over time.
SteveP
11th July 2024, 13:43
It’s easier for someone to improve their own work, but then the other design team members “mostly designed” this car anyway, so they shouldn’t have any problem at all…
ADUB SMALLBLOCK (@waptraveler)
11th July 2024, 19:49
I agree with both Max and Horner. Horner is probably right, as to be expected, that they are chasing smaller returns. But I agree with Max that they can’t get complacent in chasing what they can (and I doubt they are getting complacent).
grat
12th July 2024, 15:36
In F1, if you’re not developing your car, you’re going backwards– aka, Aston Martin.
Getting the first 95% of the potential out of a particular car design isn’t too tough– but those last 5% are exponentially more difficult to unlock.
If the RB20 is near the limits of what the car is capable of, then it’s possible they’ll have to redesign the car for 2025. My understanding was that the RB20 was a significant departure from the RB19, because even though the RB19 was a phenomenal car, it was near the limits of what could be accomplished.