Formula 1 teams and the FIA are discussing whether adding glue to gravel traps could provide the most effective solution to enforcing track limits.
The operators of the Zandvoort circuit, which returned to the F1 calendar in 2021, added glue to the edges of some gravel traps to prevent cars dragging stones onto the course.At the FIA’s request, other circuits have added or expanded gravel traps this year to physically enforce track limits instead of relying on cameras and stewards detecting whether drivers have strayed across white lines. However if gravel is dragged onto the circuits it can damage tyres.
Pirelli’s chief engineer Simone Berra said the solution used at Zandvoort could prove the best compromise between enforcing track limits and preventing unnecessary damage to tyres.
“We think that going in the direction to improve the gravel trap is the right direction for the track limits,” he told media including RaceFans. “Probably the best solution, and it’s something that I know that the teams are speaking with FIA and FIA is speaking with the teams, is trying to use a solution like we have in Zandvoort where they glue the gravel. That could be a good solution because you don’t bring a gravel into the racing line.
“I don’t know if we will go in this direction, but that could be a possible introduction for the future. Anyway, the FIA we know are going to introduce gravel traps for the future more often because it’s working, honestly, and it makes sense.”
At Zandvoort, the borders of some gravel traps have glue applied to prevent the stones being moved if a driver touches the edge of the run-off.
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“It’s a solution that we have available and we should consider because it’s preventing gravel to come onto the track and maybe slowing down the cars if they run over this glued gravel,” Berra added.
Pirelli detected more cuts in its tyres during the Austrian Grand Prix weekend after two new strips of gravel were added at turns nine and ten. The manufacturer does not believe the cuts were a cause for concern at that circuit.
“Obviously gravel has some pros and cons, and the kerbs as well, because if we use very high kerbs as well to oblige drivers to respect the track limits, we take the risk to damage the tyres as happened in Qatar,” Isola told RaceFans. “Obviously it depends on the time you spend over the kerbs, it depends on the speed, on the load. But there is this potential issue.
“On the other side, with gravel, you slow down the car if the car is going on the gravel. But the risk is that you have then stones coming on the track.
“We had some cuts in Spielberg in Austria. They were not very deep, they were cutting the tread but not touching the construction. So we didn’t see any potential issue with the integrity of the tyre or with the durability of the tyre. But we need to keep it monitored because it can happen that then you have a cut that is damaging the tyre. Carbon pieces are a lot more dangerous than the stones but this doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t consider and monitor the situation with the stones.”
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Circuits which host both car and bike racing have been reluctant to use gravel traps at some corners due to the potential hazards they pose to riders.
“I don’t know if there is a perfect solution,” said Isola. “I understand that the FIA has to work together with FIM [Federation Internationale de Motocyclisme] to find a solution that is common across from road or car racing and motor racing. They have different requirements, they have different needs and so sometimes it’s not easy.
“What I learned from Austria is that they are going to replace the gravel path with Tarmac when the motorbikes are are racing with Austria. And obviously this is a cost for the circuit, quite a big cost, replacing every time gravel with Tarmac, Tarmac with gravel. I can imagine that is not easy and we cannot ask all the circuits to do that.”
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Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
11th July 2024, 9:05
I’m incredibly glad they are discussing track limits solutions like this, and getting it right. How good could’ve it been in recent past if they took this approach?
Nick T.
14th July 2024, 22:57
How about just eliminating the white line where the inside of the curb is gravel or grass. Seems A LOT simpler…
notagrumpyfan
11th July 2024, 10:11
Of course a deterrent which then causes harm to other drivers (stones on the circuit) is never a good solution.
Maybe they can take some inspiration from other sports: bunkers and lateral water hazards?
Also a driver who gets stuck can continue as long as they take a penalty and start before where they first crossed into the hazard.
Jubril
11th July 2024, 22:45
Hmmm, we don’t get glued stones on the roads, and racing is all about…..on the road.
The outcome is the outcome, live with it. Glued stones?, what utter calamity of an interference, “must we tamper with nature in everything we do?, why can’t we just try living with the consequences for once.
S
11th July 2024, 10:18
Track limits… Will they ever just enforce them properly? Of course not – and I will never agree with or fully understand why they don’t.
Other sports strictly enforce the white lines as the outer-most limit of the defined field of play for a completely obvious and perfectly good reason – so it doesn’t ever become something open to controversy and exploitation, never mind impairing the safety justifications behind it.
But F1 thinks they are better and smarter than that, and have even convinced themselves that the way they’ve been handling it (or not handling it, to be more precise) for the last several decades is mostly OK.
How about cutting 150kg+ out of the cars, and wiping off half of the downforce…? That’d take loads of stress out of the tyres.
Nick T.
14th July 2024, 22:59
They did last year at Austria and it was an unmitigated disaster. And I’ve never seen another series that enforces the “white line” rule in the manner you imply.
Mr A
11th July 2024, 11:07
We had stones all over the circuits in the 80s and 90s and 00s and I don’t remember tyres failing left right and centre and I don’t remember them breaking cars, either.
This is ludicrous, just bring the damn gravel back and stop looking for issues with everything.
uzsjgb (@uzsjgb)
11th July 2024, 11:27
In the 80s and 90s we had a lot of fatal crashes. “Bring the damn gravel back” just because some fans love their white lines above anything else is crazy. Luckily the FIA will never bring back gravel traps and thus roll back the safety improvements of many decades.
Patrick (@anunaki)
11th July 2024, 13:42
There were 4 fatalities in F1 in the 80s and 2 in the 90s. None of them had to do with gravel.
uzsjgb (@uzsjgb)
11th July 2024, 14:47
None of these fatalities could have been saved by the halo, so we can remove that too. None of them burned to death, so we can also remove fire proof suits.
This is not how safety works. After many close calls in the 1990s the FIA started to replace gravel traps with asphalt run-offs, greatly increasing safety. All the safety measures combined, which have been introduced since the 1980s have made F1 a much, much safer sport. Someone calling for the elimination of these safety features, because they are obsessed with white lines, just shows they have absolutely no respect for the drivers in this sport.
I would assume that these people have no idea of the history of the sport and even less of an idea what they are talking about. But still their posts have to be countered by facts.
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
11th July 2024, 16:09
It’s a bit rich to claim that the people requesting gravel have no idea of the history of the sport whilst also staying “none of them burned to death”. Paletti’s fire might not have caused it but it didn’t improve matters. De Angelis did, of course, burn to death.
There’s a train of thought that senna ‘s accident could have been saved by the halo too as well as Depailler.
I’m not convinced that gravel littering the track is a real and present danger to drivers. I think we should use VSC to clear it up and I’m not a huge fan of gravel traps given that they cause cars to roll. But Austria seemed to find the correct balance and is an improvement in the spectacle of the sport for a negligible danger element.
anon
11th July 2024, 21:20
@rbalonso you are incorrect when you claim that “De Angelis did, of course, burn to death.”. When de Angelis crashed during testing at Paul Ricard, his initial injuries were a broken collar bone. After the car caught fire, he did have some light burns from the fire, but did not “burn to death”.
What really caused his death was the fact that the marshals at Paul Ricard were grossly incompetent. The drivers had been complaining that the circuit was understaffed and that the few marshals that were present were sitting in sun loungers in t-shirts and shorts.
Eventually, about 10 minutes after the car first caught fire, one of those marshals did attempt to use a fire extinguisher to put out the fire. Unfortunately, Alan Jones, one of several drivers at the scene, recounted that the marshal ended up spraying most of the powder from the fire extinguisher into the cockpit and into Elio’s face, rather than on the engine fire.
The end result was that, by the time that they did finally put the fire out and got de Angelis out of the car, he’d suffered terminal brain trauma caused by a lack of oxygen to the brain.
At best, the incompetence of the marshals meant that de Angelis died of asphyxiation when a competent marshalling team should have been able to put the fire out and extract him from the car much more quickly. At worst, the allegation that a not inconsiderable amount of powder from the fire extinguisher was found in de Angelis’s lungs during the autopsy suggests that, when the marshal tried to put out the fire, they might have caused de Angelis to choke on the fire extinguisher and helped kill him.
Famously, the 1986 French GP also saw a similar degree of incompetence when Streiff’s car caught fire, with the marshals, after driving the wrong way up the pit lane, ended up spraying most of the foam from the fire truck onto the track instead of at Streiff’s car.
Fortunately, Streiff was able to get out of the car OK and the main damage was a written off car, but to those within the sport, it did underline that Paul Ricard’s marshals were probably doing more harm than good. It also served to underline the fact that it was really stupidity and incompetence that killed de Angelis, as he shouldn’t have died in that accident.
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
12th July 2024, 6:43
Thanks Anon. I take your point and thanks for going into such detail.
The point I was trying to convey was that the fire was a primary factor in his death given the injuries of the crash were not serious and that he would have survived without the fire. It was clumsy worded for effect and the information you provide correctly illustrates that marshalling incompetence was to blame.
EffWunFan (@cairnsfella)
13th July 2024, 6:44
@uzsjgb I feel that what ‘appears’ to be your agument is a little flawed.
No-one is suggesting that substabtive safety measures sould be withdrawn regardless of the number of fatilities they they may yet have prevented. And it is also logical to feel that gravel traps may present a level of risk higher than not having gravel traps. The issue is what is the level of risk, and to what extent may any action taken prevent injury or fatality.
Halos and fire proof suits appear to represent a significant saftey gain, wheras the adoption of gravel traps may represent a very limited additional risk, but a significant gain in improving racing.
If you want to suggest that saftey should be pursued at all costs, then one could eliminate all risk by not racing at all.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
14th July 2024, 11:02
I don’t know the dynamics of most of those incidents, but I’m convinced senna would’ve been saved by the halo, after all a suspension hit his helmed and pierced it.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
14th July 2024, 11:07
helmet*
Nick T.
14th July 2024, 23:01
“Lots of” fatal crashes. We had only 1 that occurred during an actual race and it had nothing to do with gravel nor did the ones that were in testing or the one other that occurred in a practice session.
Leksa (@leksa)
11th July 2024, 11:30
What about MotoGP? Can they run over these?
I still think a temporary gravel trap or temporary grass is a perfect solution. It punishes so quickly that drivers are forced to avoid them. Only problem at Red Bull Ring was that they forgot to add them at every corner.
MacLeod (@macleod)
11th July 2024, 13:53
They can drive with a Motor over glued gravel it hurts your tyres and slows you down. But if a rider glides over it that is costing his suit as they are little stones which are sharp.
Jojo
11th July 2024, 14:05
MotoGP have their Dutch Grand Prix in Assen and don’t race in Zandvoort, so it shouldn’t be a problem there, maybe at other circuits it’s more of a consideration though. Better for them that it’s not full gravel traps at least.
uzsjgb (@uzsjgb)
11th July 2024, 11:36
I don’t like these solutions for one simple reason: it punishes drivers for racing on the limit.
For me motorsport is a lot about racing on the limit. I love to see cars and drivers on the edge. If you punish drivers for going over the limit, then it does not make any sense to go up to the limit, because the danger is too great that you will go over it and incur a punishment. You will lose time, so it is faster to stay belów the limit, to drive slower and safer.
I cannot understand the applaus for these solutions and the “proof” that they work, because we see less track limit violations. What people are really applauding is drivers driving slower. What a weird sport, where fans applaud drivers driving less on the limit.
ollie studio45
11th July 2024, 11:43
It’s about moving from subjective limits (rules to interpret and enforce) to objective limits (physical consequences).
Rhys Lloyd (@justrhysism)
11th July 2024, 11:51
Umm, the challenge is to drive as close to the limit without going over it. If you go over the limit, you face consequences.
What is then the difference between gravel, and say, the walls of Monaco? I indeed the spectacle of Monaco is drivers taking it right to the limit, missing the walls by mere millimeters in pursuit of that limit; without going over it and hitting the wall/barrier.
If you take away the penalty for breaching the limit, you take away the pure precision element which separates the greats from the elites.
uzsjgb (@uzsjgb)
11th July 2024, 15:15
It is an illusion that drivers in Monaco are going right to the limit. It doesn’t make sense to go right to the limit, because any small mistake would cost you the race. Any driver who has something to lose will leave a margin for error.
I like your comment about precision making a driver great. It is a great insight into thís new breed of racing fans. I think I have never fully realized this change in perspective. Do you think there are any elite drivers from times where track limits where not enforced? Or from race series where they are not enforced?
uzsjgb (@uzsjgb)
11th July 2024, 17:02
I just checked the FIA website, they have lists of non-elite drivers for:
Silverstone: Sargeant, Hamilton, Russell, Norris, Leclerc, Bottas, Sainz, Ricciardo and Albon.
Austria: Ricciardo, Hülkenberg, Norris, Zhou, Perez, Gasly, Tsunoda, Leclerc, Sargeant, Verstappen and Piastri.
Spain: Sainz, Alonso, Tsunoda, Hülkenberg, Sargeant, Tsunoda, Hamilton, Ricciardo, Albon, Norris.
So, by your definition the only elite F1 drivers of the past three races were: Stroll, Magnussen and Ocon. Sounds about right.
S
11th July 2024, 12:38
No – it punishes drivers for exceeding the limit. As it should.
Also known as Risk Vs Reward. It’s a feature – not a bug.
The ‘best’ driving performances are the ones that walk that fine line, but stay ever so slightly on the correct side of it. Exceeding the limit is not a great achievement…
If you remove (or even soften) the limit, then you take away the consequence of getting it wrong – thus moving the line between a great performance and an ordinary one requiring little to no skill at all.
The drivers are to be appreciated for driving more accurately and skilfully – not necessarily slower.
What a weird take that you only see track limits enforcement as a negative. What is the track if there is no defined limit? Where does it go, and what are the rules that actually make it a ‘sport’ rather than just a Sunday drive out in the car park?
spoutnik (@spoutnik)
11th July 2024, 11:56
A solution to a non-existing problem.
Also, not sure pouring cubic meters of chemicals everywhere is the best idea ever.
Why not break the gravel into smaller pieces and glue them with tar, so that it becomes asphalt run-offs?
S
11th July 2024, 12:40
But still define the track with white painted lines…?
notagrumpyfan
11th July 2024, 15:25
;)
Le Jimster (@lejimster82)
11th July 2024, 14:29
The whole point of gravel traps is the risk you might get beached if you end in them just like Perez did in quali last week. That’s a huge risk factor. If they glue them it makes it uncomfortable for the drivers but it’s much less of a risk if they make a mistake.
uzsjgb (@uzsjgb)
11th July 2024, 15:41
You are wrong, the whole point of gravel traps is for motorcycle safety, especially to separate rider and bike.
Gravel traps are dangerous for cars, because they tend to launch the car into the air. A car flying through the car does not have the best stopping capabilites. That is why the FIA started removing gravel traps in fast corners, after some very dangerous accidents at Eau Rouge at the end of the 1990s, where cars used the gravel traps as launching ramps.
In slow corners gravel traps are acceptable for safety reasons, but watching all the action at Silverstone last weekend, I really dread them as well, because it takes so much time away from racing until beached cars are retrieved.
The good thing about these gravel strips is that neither can a car dig into them and start flipping, nor can they be used as a launching ramp. I wonder what it costs to attach and remove these gravel strips. Those are extra costs the fans will be paying with their tickets. That is why I am not fully convinced they will be a permanent solution.
ADUB SMALLBLOCK (@waptraveler)
11th July 2024, 19:53
So, instead of “dragging gravel onto the racing line”, they would then drag BIG CHUNKS of gravel onto the racing line? These cars pull up drain covers!
The Dolphins
11th July 2024, 21:54
Glued gravel? Worth a test in Austria 2025 as a direct comparison with this year.
Artificial puddles in the run off are also something to consider, acting as a more lasting deterrent to the driver by impacting tyre temperature, grip on acceleration as well as braking/turn-in on the subsequent corner. Yes it could splash onto the racing line but unlike a stone a streak of water does not cause tyre punctures.
However there’s something to be said about over engineering solutions and I was pleased to see that a simple strip of gravel made a significant impact in Austria.
baasbas
12th July 2024, 14:07
How many track limit violations at Zandvoort?
Exactly.
joe pineapples (@joepineapples)
13th July 2024, 12:29
It’s an idea not to be sniffed at.