Lando Norris did something very few Formula 1 drivers have ever done before at the Hungaroring on Sunday – give up the lead of a grand prix to allow his team mate to win instead.
Although it was not his fault that he found himself ahead of Oscar Piastri after the final round of pit stops, Norris was asked to move aside to allow the other McLaren back into the lead.Over 20 laps, McLaren repeatedly asked Norris – through his race engineer Will Joseph – to surrender the lead to Piastri. This was so they could revert the positions of the two cars to the order they were in prior to their final pit stops. The team gave Norris the advantage of pitting first to protect him from the threat of Lewis Hamilton behind, but by doing so moved him ahead of Piastri.
Neither driver was responsible for the exchange of positions. However, McLaren immediately asked Norris to make way for his team mate as soon as it was “convenient” for him.
Norris continued to circulate in the lead of the race, eventually pulling his lead out to over six seconds as the laps ticked by. Although Piastri appeared unable to keep up with his team mate despite two-lap fresher tyres, Norris eventually complied with his team’s relentless requests to let Piastri through, at the start of the 68th lap of the race.
He admitted afterwards he considered staying ahead. Did he do the right thing by complying with McLaren’s team orders and giving up a near-certain victory?
For
As Norris’s race engineer Will Joseph made a point of saying during one of his many appeals to his driver over the radio in the race, Norris will need the full support of his team and team mate if he is to contend for a title – be that this season or in future years. Upsetting the team dynamic when McLaren have such momentum at present for the sake of a single race win and seven more points could prove counter-productive in the long-term.
Although Norris was able to pull away from his team mate in the final stint, the fact remains that he had lost the lead at the start to Piastri, who had led the entire race up until his final stop. It was only right that Piastri had his lead returned to him.
Against
If Norris is to have any hope of somehow closing his gap to Max Verstappen in the drivers’ championship and snatch a world title away from the Red Bull driver, then he has just made his job even harder by sacrificing those seven points.
Norris did nothing wrong by just so happening to be out in the lead of the race after the final stop and he would have been perfectly justified in holding onto the victory. Piastri would have been understandably distraught to lose his maiden win, but Piastri could only have been upset at his team – not Norris.
Not to mention that team orders go entirely against the core spirit of what racing – and Formula 1 – is supposed to be.
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They said
Speaking in the post-race press conference, Norris admitted that he had been conflicted over those final 20 laps before allowing Piastri to reclaim his lead.
“You’ve got to be selfish in this sport at times. You’ve got to think of yourself,” he said. “That’s priority number one, is think of yourself.
“I’m also a team player, so my mind was going pretty crazy at the time. I know what we’ve done in the past between Oscar and myself. He’s helped me plenty of times. I think this is a different situation. This is not someone helping one another. I was put into a position, and we were undoing that position change.
“So it was not easy, but I also understood the situation I was in and I was quite confident always by the last lap I would have done it.”
You say
Was Norris right to allow Piastri through to win the Hungarian Grand Prix?
- No opinion (0%)
- Yes - But Norris should have let Piastri by sooner (51%)
- Yes - Norris was right to let Piastri through in the manner he did (13%)
- Don't know (2%)
- No - McLaren should never have asked Norris to move aside (26%)
- No - Norris should not have complied with his team's order to let Piastri by (8%)
Total Voters: 193
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2024 Hungarian Grand Prix
- Verstappen names Hungarian GP the most stressful moment of his title-winning year
- McLaren team orders “a new situation we’re inexperienced at handling” – Piastri
- Verstappen dismisses critics of “vocal” radio messages and late-night simracing
- Norris’ former McLaren team mates say he was right to give up win
- Mercedes surprised Hamilton’s car was “completely unscathed” in Verstappen clash
Krislord (@krislord)
21st July 2024, 21:57
I was disappointed Lando moaned about it for so long.
He didn’t even need to let him pass immediately, just confirm he would do so.
He inherited the lead as McLaren gave him priority at the pits to preserve 2nd place and avoid going 1-3 if there was a slow stop.
If Lando had let him past earlier, maybe Oscar would have made a mistake and Lando could have claimed the win on merit.
In the future if he’s the better driver logically he’ll benefit more from having a team mate who will also let him past when asked by the team.
Asd
21st July 2024, 23:04
“If Lando had let him past earlier, maybe Oscar would have made a mistake and Lando could have claimed the win on merit.”
Exactly. Great point.
Red Pill (@redpill)
22nd July 2024, 7:35
Correct
If Lando was smart and confident, then he should have immediately let Piastri pass at the earliest convenience with plenty of laps left in the race to have time to pass Piastri and earn his 1st place.
But he didn’t, and he shouldn’t have messed up the start either when his team mate nailed it and established 1st place with a nice gap on everyone including Lando. Piastri was not slow today, I doubt Lando could have passed him back into first.
drmouse (@drmouse)
23rd July 2024, 11:39
That was my thought, too.
He was gifted the lead when the team tried to protect him from Lewis. Had he given the place back earlier, he could have battled with his teammate and potentially taken the win on merit.
His delay in giving the place back looked like he was looking for a way to avoid doing so which didn’t look like he was intentionally denying it. A safety car, or someone overtaking catching Oscar, or Oscar making a mistake… Any of these would have put him in a situation where he could claim he was going to give the place back at the end, but ended up being unable to do so.
It wasn’t a good look on Mr Norris, and I was disappointed in him.
Picasso 1.9D FTW (@picasso-19d-ftw)
21st July 2024, 22:07
It seemed unnecessary for Mclaren to create the situation, but since they did and they had previously told NOR that he could race “the papaya car”, the sage thing to do would probably have been to swop early and then take them up on that offer by taking the fight to PIA on track. In the end I think Lando did the right thing but both drivers were put in a situation that should have been avoided and it was no surprise to see a race resisting the call to switch
Picasso 1.9D FTW (@picasso-19d-ftw)
21st July 2024, 22:09
A racer
MacLeod (@macleod)
22nd July 2024, 8:32
They said it before the first pitstop but after the second they said they swap the position and keep the stand.
David BR (@david-br)
21st July 2024, 22:11
Piastri got a better start, Norris moved across to try to block him but they were virtually level by the first corner. But then things get a bit iffy, Piastri effectively pushes Norris off track and Verstappen with him, meaning that Norris fell to third. Hmm, okay, but does that really shout ‘team player’? Norris meanwhile did everything to give his team mate space. Then later in the race, Piastri runs wide, losing time, meaning that when they pit Norris he’s close enough to get past through the undercut. Sure, no need for McLaren to cover Hamilton, but that was a Piastri error that meant they ended up swapping places. Then after that Norris was faster.
The situation reminds me of Russell and Hamilton at Mercedes, Lewis acting the team player, George focused on beating Lewis. Piastri today had one objective, beat his team mate. But McLaren do have a chance at the WDC with Norris. If they want to turn that into a real challenge, they’re going to have to make better decisions. I think Red Bull and Mercedes would have focused on the title, apologized to Piastri for the pit stop mess up and taken the points for their lead driver ahead in the points table. That’s how you win titles.
roadrunner (@roadrunner)
21st July 2024, 23:06
I think you’re a bit hard on Piastri here. He got squeezed at the run towards turn one and I had the impression that it was indeed Norris who was focusing to much on his teammate rather than on Verstappen. At the apex they were pretty much leveled and Piastri did absolutely nothing wrong. He took a normal line and definitely did not make Norris lose the place to Verstappen, Verstappen just ignored the corner completely to get ahead. And Piastri played the team game quite a lot last year without any complaints.
The situation only got messy when McLaren for no reason at all tried to be clever and messed around with the pit stops. Suddenly they had the wrong car in front and had to put immense moral pressure on Norris to give up a position he gained through no fault of his own. That was the hardest part. It’s a bit like Singapore 2019 with Leclerc and Vettel. Ferrari didn’t chose to restore the order back than, because they thought it would be unfair, McLaren did. Hard to swallow for Norris as he did nothing wrong and bad for the championship too, but I can’t see what Piastri could have done differently. He wasn’t even annoying over the radio.
Mooa42
21st July 2024, 23:22
I think it was smart to pit Lando to cover Hamilton, if there was an ill timed safety car then Hamilton would have been on new tyres and Lando on old hards. They removed that risk by pitting Lando first, they had more time with Oscar.
Red Pill (@redpill)
22nd July 2024, 8:01
@david-br
I have to disagree with your view of the driving. I saw two things Lando made a mistake on, one was mis shifting, giving himself a slow start and then focusing his fight with his teammate opening the door for the driver who Lando needed to beat more. Lando actually got lucky when Hamilton was a head of him. Max took Ham wide and had to back off a little giving Lando the chance to grab 3rd. Lando could have very easily been stuck in 4th place.
I did not see Lando being forced off the track by Piastri; Oscar won the corner, it was obvious and drove the normal racing line and gave enough space for one car, Lando stayed inside the track, Max not so much, three cars side by side were never going to fit unless Piastri decided to lift and give them the corner. Who does that?
Lando looked like he was more afraid of his team mate than his rival Max. He almost gave Max the lead while messing with Piastri at the start, when the exact thing that McLaren needed to do was keep Max behind at the start. Lando picked one car to defend and it wasn’t Max.
You only mention one instance, when Piastri went wide on a corner losing time, well maybe that was because he was stuck behind his teammate in unstable air and using up his tires, after they agreed to swap. Before that Piastri was pulling away from everyone and gave him himself a nice gap in 1st and going well and remember Lando had the better/faster track situation later because his teammate gave him that position.
It would have been very ugly if Lando defied kept the win. I do feel we’re now seeing a faster Piastri that could score a bunch more points, which would be a very good thing for McLaren but maybe not for Lando, so perhaps it was a good thing he relented and receive a payback later in the season.
David BR (@david-br)
22nd July 2024, 12:26
@redpill and @roadrunner Thanks for the considered replies, I don’t think Piastri did anything wrong and agree that Norris seemed more worried about keeping his team mate behind him than Verstappen. However, I did think that Piastri could have allowed Norris a bit more space deeper into the corner. I suppose I was expecting greater coordination between the two McLarens for both of them to stay ahead and keep Verstappen (and maybe Hamilton) behind. It just confirms my overall impression that McLaren don’t think they’re in a race for the WDC – or maybe they don’t yet want to focus on one driver.
As far as I remember Piastri lost time by going off when he was still ahead of Norris in the second stint, but maybe I got that wrong.
I still think they handled the situation badly and shouldn’t have left Norris out there for so many laps pondering what to do when Stella could have apologized on the radio but asked him (firmly) to give up the lead. Alternatively, Norris could have returned the place quickly and then challenged for the lead, with or without a green light from the pit to do so. Obviously they’ll learn from this.
Red Pill (@redpill)
22nd July 2024, 17:19
Well, you’re absolutely correct; it’s a very good thing for the drivers and teams that they have us to learn from : )
McLaren is now in new territory, while I’m sure they’ve been imaging this situation for years to be in this situation, it’s another thing to actually get it right on the first go. Telling both drivers they are free to race each other, and also have team orders is a prickly pear and needs to be defined with solid lines which they appear to not have.
This is just growing pains, but how they proceed as team will define them.
Neil (@neilosjames)
21st July 2024, 22:13
Yes, he was right to return the place. Although, for me, he should have done it quicker. Partly because that was the team’s intention, but also for his own benefit, as he’d still have had a chance of winning the race.
Unless it’d been made clear there was no racing allowed (which I suppose is a realistic possibility for McLaren), Norris could have let Piastri back through straight away after the stops and been a second behind with 20+ laps to go. My perhaps overly optimistic thinking being that once the order was reset, they’d have been free to race again to the flag, and it’s not outside the realms of possibility that Norris could have overtaken.
But then, I guess he didn’t know at the time that he’d have a pace advantage over Piastri in the final stint. As Norris’ tyres were a few laps older, he may have thought the opposite would be true.
Elvira
22nd July 2024, 0:55
They’d already told Norris he could race the papaya car.
It’s clear to me that is Stella’s philosophy, I can’t imagine it’s news to the drivers.
“We want to make sure that this happens according to our principles, always putting the team first and then having a fair play”
BasCB (@bascb)
22nd July 2024, 13:02
The team informed Norris that they would be allowed to race until about the mid 40s, i.e. until the last round of pitstops (radio messages when he started to get closer to Piastri’s off track moment and probably asked about it), so yeah, he would have been told to hold position and bring home the 1-2 just like in Monza with Ricciardo ahead @neilosjames.
Off course he could have tried it anyway, but then it would have been simpler to just keep the position outright.
drmouse (@drmouse)
23rd July 2024, 11:46
But he would have been having a go for the position fairly, rather than just lucking into it when the team pitted him early to protect him from the car behind.
Venedikov (@venedikov)
21st July 2024, 22:16
The team were right to ask for switch of positions after the last stops – they protected the 1-2, inevitably wrongdoing Oscar in the process. But to me what happened next is on Lando – he should have let Piastri ahead much sooner and then pile the pressure. Of course everything is clearer and easier in hindsight, not in the heat of the moment.
BasCB (@bascb)
22nd July 2024, 13:03
They should have made it clearer, not messing about with the “save tyres” BS but just told him he HAD to return the place as agreed.
Mayrton
21st July 2024, 22:21
Bit disappointed in Lando. You always take the win. You are there for a very short period in time as racing driver. Wins are not easily nor frequently available. There is no team for a driver at the end of the day, it is you. Drivers also switch teams. It is a business relationship. You know they will let you down the moment they no longer need you. He missed the opportunity to shake off his being too nice today which imho is the last step he needs (well actually he could work on his consistency as well) to become a WDC candidate. This will cost him on the long run. As Peter Windsor also stated: ”I’ve been enough long enough to know how difficult it is to win a GP, you do not play around with it. If you have an opportunity to win, you take it”
David BR (@david-br)
21st July 2024, 22:27
You’re right, in fact the team already made it clear that it’s purely transactional, no loyalty, when Lando’s race engineer threatened him with “if you don’t give the place to Oscar, the team won’t be behind you (and Oscar won’t be either).” I mean, wow. As Peter Windsor said, that was disgraceful treatment of Norris. I really felt for him, he’s given everything to the team and they really treated him with disdain today.
MichaelN
21st July 2024, 22:36
Norris isn’t going to win any races if he alienates the team with some edgy lone ranger shtick. Not with a very capable driver as his teammate. Drivers that show they have no interest in being part of a team don’t tend to last long.
David BR (@david-br)
21st July 2024, 22:45
And yet it was Norris who was carefully avoiding contact at the first corner, not Piastri, who sent him and Verstappen out wide. Not a criticism. However, Piastri was thinking purely of himself there, not about a 1-2 for the team, still less about Norris running second to Verstappen in the WDC. Norris did everything right. He’s quicker over one lap than Piastri and quicker over a race. Where he shines less is precisely in being more ruthless – which the team must now. However it runs counter to the idea that of “some edgy lone ranger shtick,” whatever that means.
Red Pill (@redpill)
22nd July 2024, 8:23
@david-br
MichaelN is correct. Stealing that win against team orders would be a short lived win for Lando and would make him awfully chilly in his own teams paddock. Piastri now a days is now looking very fast, maybe as fast or faster than Lando while also being a good team player helping his own team succeed in the WCC and that would take priority. And he’s helped Lando do well many times in the past, and that would essentially stop.
And next time, Lando will maybe not be given the winning option, maybe even when it is his turn, because he cant be trusted and instead they have the team player driver get it instead.
I seriously doubt that it would get to that but just look at Ocon and his Lone Ranger behavior, how’s that working out for him? Taking that win would have been very short sighted for Lando, it would change his career trajectory and future team relations. I don’t see that helping his cause to be a WC.
No one needs another RB Multi 21 situation. Seems many forget that the big thing in F1 and the money to hire drivers comes from scoring the WCC. When one driver starts thinking he’s more important than the team, that’s when it gets ugly and short lived.
But hey, go for it
David BR (@david-br)
22nd July 2024, 12:37
@redpill I didn’t read Norris’s indecision out front as selfishness, I thought it was a case of the driver thinking that the team had both messed up the pit stops and got the overall calculation wrong – it was better for him to get those points for the WDC. Reasonable thinking, if still self-serving, in both cases. Also I can’t recall a driver giving up a 3-6 second lead when there are still a lot of laps left. When you’re working for tenths of a second extra per lap, that’s a lot to throw away when you’ve done nothing wrong and also a risk in relation to the other competitors, a virtual safety car or so on. I’d also put another question: what if Norris had returned the position and then been stuck behind a slower Piastri? Does he try to pass or accept that the racing is over? Might have been the better option but McLaren would have been left with another problem.
Red Pill (@redpill)
22nd July 2024, 17:30
@david-br I too can’t remember any driver giving up such a large gap and dropping back but its not unheard of, when you look back in F1 history.
But I think the large gap between them comes from Piastri playing it much safer as the team wanted, saving his tires and driving more conservatively since they had such a massive gap from the 3rd place driver back 18 seconds; While Lando was pushing the car at full beans.
I think it would have been fair game for the two race for 1st if Lando gave the position immediately back and not take each other out in the process.
drmouse (@drmouse)
23rd July 2024, 22:51
Hungary 2017, IIRC Hamilton gave up a 7s lead over Bottas to give him a podium position back when he couldn’t overtake the guy in front. It was at the last corner, in that case, I believe.
MichaelN
21st July 2024, 22:32
The driver is just an employee. If he’s told to do something, do it. The middle of the race is not the time to argue about it.
Could McLaren have handled this better? Sure. But they’ll adjust as they get more comfortable with their place in the order. When the two cars are effectively racing for wins, some rules need to be put down for the stops. Mercedes did it quite well with Rosberg and Hamilton. Mclaren will figure it out in time. Although in their current form, the sooner the better.
David BR (@david-br)
21st July 2024, 22:35
Leaving aside the engineering, the driver is everything as far as I’m concerned. I don’t watch Formula 1 thinking I’m watching 20 corporate employees on a circuit doing what they’re told.
MichaelN
21st July 2024, 22:45
While the drivers are there on behalf of the teams, that doesn’t mean we can’t appreciate them as individuals. It’s just that they aren’t the top dog in the organisation. And sometimes they have to listen. It’s not a bad thing, nor does it diminish them.
I get that there’s a certain appeal to the rogue, the maverick, and the ‘it’s all about me’ tough guy. But that doesn’t tend to get one very far. Not in this sport, nor in many other areas of life.
David BR (@david-br)
21st July 2024, 22:51
Sure it’s a team sport. But I really have never seen Norris is anything but a team player, and I’m sure McLaren haven’t either, which is why it felt so off today.
At the same time, though the sport is safer now, it’s the drivers who are still risking themselves on track. And they’re the ones who can make a real difference to the team’s chances. McLaren have two great talents (ditto Mercedes, ditto Ferrari this year and next) so maybe they feel covered. But really that’s just an indication of how high the overall driver level is in Formula 1 right now, possibly the best ever, not that the drivers don’t matter. As Red Bull.
Asd
21st July 2024, 23:08
“Leaving aside the engineering, the driver is everything as far as I’m concerned.”
F1 is an engineering race, not a driver’s championship. The driver is just another engineer who specializes in operating the machinery on track. The quality of the designed car is what determines the success, not the driver.
You eat F1 propaganda like candy I see.
David BR (@david-br)
22nd July 2024, 1:12
OK, it’s an opinion I guess. Presumably you see footballers as specialists in operating football boots under instruction from the team manager and have no discernible individual abilities.
MurasamaRA300 (@murasamara300)
22nd July 2024, 9:00
I sense football is going in that direction as well, with VAR and players wearing all sorts of electronic sensors, automatic measuring of offside situations etc.
Glennb
22nd July 2024, 0:35
Totally agree with this post.
Team orders have been around since the beginning.
Jesus told Moses to come forth and he did. He didn’t come third or fifth, he came forth.
Good team player that Moses.
PlosslF1 (@f1-ploss)
22nd July 2024, 14:10
Jesus saves…. Moses scores with the rebound :)
Mayrton
22nd July 2024, 8:35
Maybe from a team’s perspective it is. And yes, they last longer than their drivers. But from a drivers perspective your mindset should be that the team has to prove themselves worthy of having you in that seat. Otherwise you just don’t understand nor play the role you are supposed to play in all of this. This is top sport, pinnacle stuff etc.. if you do not play your part, then you are just a mediocre driver, taking your place in history with a few wins maybe, but probably not a WDC.
knightameer (@knightameer)
21st July 2024, 22:41
I voted yes. It was the right thing to do. Now that McLaren is faster, Norris did the right thing by playing the team game. Oscar will help him immensely if by chance McLaren bridge the points gap closer before the final third this season.
V. Chris (@vasschu)
21st July 2024, 22:45
The team dropped the ball big time. First, they shouldn’t allow the undercut from Lando in the first place – it was not fair to Oscar. But once it happened they managed the situation in really stupid way. They shouldn’t insist so hard on Lando to give the position. The radios were embarrassing. They created the mess and then put it on the drivers to deal with it. Absolutely pathetic from the pit wall.
And although It was not fair to Oscar, I don’t think Lando should give the position back once he found himself there. Not his fault, and realistically he is the only driver that can challenge the championship. Max will never drop points like this.
Even Ferrari can’t create bigger mess.
Mayrton
22nd July 2024, 8:40
Totally agree. The interview with Stella post race had me wonder why on earth this man is in this position. He doesn’t even realise himself how unprofessional they were. And they massively overstepped their boundary towards an employee by threatening him. Big no for McLaren this weekend.
FlyingLap (@flyinglapp)
22nd July 2024, 16:35
The best comment on this subject. Very well put.
FlyingLap (@flyinglapp)
22nd July 2024, 16:37
PS: My comment was for V Chris’s comment.
Rosa (@ciaran)
21st July 2024, 22:59
I’m a bit disappointed that Lando wasn’t a bit more ruthless – something that might be necessary for a 2024 title shot – but I’m far more let down by McLaren. That situation should never have occurred, and their handling of it was bizarre (albeit amusing in its own way). Their mishandling meant that there would have been controversy and disgruntlement regardless which of them won. Feels like they’ve really soured what should have been a great 1-2.
Rosa (@ciaran)
21st July 2024, 23:02
Forgot the end to my own post – I feel Lando was magnanimous in handing the position back, but I like the way he did it, creating a large gap just to show his pace. That should make McLaren sweat a bit! They have possibly the best car right now, and they need a clear #1 driver in situations like this if there’s a rival much closer to them.
Jim from US (@jimfromus)
21st July 2024, 23:06
It was wrong of the team to ask. They screwed up the pit stops. If they do that in a race where another team gets a car in between the two drivers, do they have their drivers swap and allow the other team to gain a position, because that is the fair thing to do?
Edvaldo
21st July 2024, 23:13
To me he could have done that as early as he was asked for the first time.
By the time he did it, it had took so long i was expecting him to run with it and let Piastri have his day some other day, but then he finally obliged.
So he kinda did everything in the worst way he could. Did everything in his power to show everyone the race was his and Piastri only won it because he let him.
David (@nvherman)
22nd July 2024, 0:28
Which is correct. Anyone could see that Norris should have won, and only didn’t because he was ordered not to
Edvaldo
22nd July 2024, 17:00
He didn’t because he lost preferential treatment at the first corner.
He wouldn’t even have a sniff at the lead if the team didn’t kept Piastri out longer than him.
David (@nvherman)
23rd July 2024, 20:05
Except that’s not the case. Piastri went off at turn 11, which is what cost him so much time to Norris, and why Norris was even in a position where the undercut could happen.
Then Piastri’s pit stop was about 0.6 seconds longer than Norris’s. Finally, Piastri went off at turn 12 after the pit stops.
Mark (@blueruck)
21st July 2024, 23:44
Who cares, not a single one of us matters and even 95% of the McLaren team doesn’t matter in this decision.
This is like judging a lady who just gave birth:
1) Should have delivered at home?
2) Should she delivered at the hospital?
3) Did she takes her drugs too soon?
4) Could she have waited to take the drugs?
James (@knewman)
22nd July 2024, 0:43
This is on the team, it was their screw up that Lando had to clean up for them. I believe Lando did the right thing, sacrificed the now for the later. I think it will come back to him.
slowmo (@slowmo)
22nd July 2024, 0:55
It was naive and unprofessional for Norris and I say that as a fan. He should have slowed and let Piastri straight past and then ignored the team and fought for the win on merit on track where I reckon Piastri would have folded. Who knows when the no fight clause is called at Mclaren but they should have given their drivers 10 laps of racing after the last stop then called it.
Regardless of the above, all the blame lies with Mclaren who should issue a public apology for the mess.
Sam Crawford (@samxc)
22nd July 2024, 1:47
Lando should have let him through straight away, then hounded him until he could pass him or force him into a mistake if he felt that strongly about it
Pete
22nd July 2024, 16:27
You think McLaren would have allowed them to risk a 1-2? I think Lando knew full well that McLaren would have immediately told him to back off and allow Piastri to cruise to the finish.
Chris (@austin-healey)
22nd July 2024, 3:33
The team gave Norris the advantage of the first stop to protect him.
Next time, McLaren just need to do the right thing by the leading car, i.e Oscar should have been pitted first.
Then if Lando gets undercut by Ham, it’s all on Lando.
Lando should have just been grateful that the team were trying to protect his place, not help him undercut his team mate.
If Lando appreciated this strategy, he should have immediately given Oscar the place back, and continued to race on the track.
Bitten&Hisses (@al-perry)
22nd July 2024, 17:23
Well said, Chris. Everyone is talking about “Norris’ sacrifice”. But they don’t see or don’t want to see the reason that has put Norris in P1. It wasn’t an overtake. Neither Oscar’s error. It was a team order. An order to enter the pit first. To protect the 1-2 result.
As you said: If Lando appreciated this strategy, he should have immediately given Oscar the place back and continued to race on the track.
Brad
22nd July 2024, 5:23
MCLAREN should have pitted Oscar first and let Lando fight it out with Lewis and Max. Problem solved….Or would that have created friction too?
Jere (@jerejj)
22nd July 2024, 6:39
I voted for ”Yes – Norris was right to let Piastri through in the manner he did” but still think that McLaren shouldn’t have put themselves in this situation in the first place by pitting the latter two laps later on the second occasion instead of one, but hindsight is always easy.
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
22nd July 2024, 6:47
I’ve always felt that Lando is in the ‘elite natural talent’ group but has missed out on winning in the junior formulae and is now playing catch up. He’s won one race this year, when realistically he should have won Imola and the 5 from Monaco. The race he did win was a fluke. The title race looks different if he has 7 wins.
Lando’s not yet developed the mindset of a ruthless Champion. I think if Max or Lewis was in that car, they’d be top of the standings. Yesterday, he was given preferential treatment, and knew he would have to give the place up. His mentality was ” how can I appear quicker as I lose?” Rather than “how do I win this?”. I think Schumacher, Senna, Alonso or Vettel would have never ceded the place for right or wrong. I think Lewis would have ceded the place within a lap and fought for the win. The greats win that GP. The Barrichello’s and Coulthard’s look like they were able to win.
Once Lando makes the mentality shift, by going on a good win streak, I think he’ll look back at this as a missed title bid – all the best drivers have dips before they graduate from great to legend, perhaps this is Lando’s learning curve.
mzs16 (@mzs16)
22nd July 2024, 7:38
Spot on, this sums it up perfectly!
On the other hand though, McLaren are really in overthinking mode now after all their recent strategic screw-ups – just set a hard-and-fast rule of always pitting the lead driver first and stick to that no matter what. Works 90% of the time, and for one I wouldn’t blame them for the 10% when it goes wrong.
MichaelN
22nd July 2024, 9:42
Yeah, fair take. Norris could/should have put himself in a better position with better results in earlier races. He, Piastri and McLaren are going through a shift at the moment. They need to become the top team they now can be, and that takes a while and will make them seem silly at times.
David BR (@david-br)
22nd July 2024, 12:41
Yep, perfect call. Alonso would have given the most convincing explanation to the team of how they’d messed up but how it was far better for all concerned for him to stay ahead. And they’d have believed him :)
w0o0dy
22nd July 2024, 7:22
Norris is sort of in the fight for the title so no. They are idiots for forcing the issue. And Norris is an idiot for complying. Imagine him coming up short by 3 or 4 points at the end of the year…..guess they still don’t believe he has a chance. Which is frankly pathetic and insulting to Norris and the engineers.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
22nd July 2024, 21:34
yeah, short-sighted in some ways – they needed to be decisive. Norris has been their driver for 6 seasons now – it’s hard to say that he’s gotten any special support from McLaren and I believe he’s earned it.
w0o0dy
22nd July 2024, 7:23
Norris is sort of in the fight for the title so no. They are id**ts for forcing the issue. And Norris is an id**t for complying. Imagine him coming up short by 3 or 4 points at the end of the year…..guess they still don’t believe he has a chance. Which is frankly pathetic and insulting to Norris and the engineers.
MacLeod (@macleod)
22nd July 2024, 8:37
if he needed 7 points he is going to remember this…….
Champions would never do this ……
Mayrton
22nd July 2024, 8:44
Fully agree. Both McLaren and Lando should learn from this. This is the step they still need to take to win championships. They may finally have the fastest car now, their team isn’t ready yet.
Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
22nd July 2024, 8:50
Although it is a pretty different scenario, this reminds me a little of Hamilton and Bottas at this track in 2017.
Hamilton clearly had more pace over Bottas, but simply was not able to pass. Norris only appeared be just a little quicker than Piastri, and I feel that once he was in the dirty air, he would have struggled to even attempt a pass. He only got ahead because of the earlier stop. He then did look quicker than Piastri but not by that much.
Hamilton, once he was let by Bottas, he had a chance to get more points for the team as he was running third. He pretty quickly gained 7 seconds on Bottas but could not pass either driver ahead. Hamilton took a pretty big risk and gave 3rd back to Bottas at the very last corner on the last lap and only just avoided getting passed by the driver behind.
As Norris only happened to get ahead by strategy, and had no way of getting more points than the team got anyway, I think it was only fair giving the place back, and he had no risk of losing 2nd either whereas hamilton very nearly sacrificed 2 places.
Jip
22nd July 2024, 10:46
@thegianthogweed McLaren allowed Norris to undercut Piastri. They should never have allowed this if they wanted Piastri to win the race. The way McLaren handled this race was so baffling that I suspect they initially wanted Norris to win the race, as he was ahead in the championship and his race pace may have been slightly better anyway. That’s why they pitted Norris first and left Piastri out for two more laps, just to ensure Norris would be ahead. They had done a similar thing 12 months previously at the same track, but this time it really upset the Piastri side of the garage, after which McLaren decided to swap their drivers again. To make matters worse, Norris was now firmly ahead of Piastri. Kudos to Norris for being such a team player… but I’m afraid he’ll never be a world champion if he continues to be such a nice guy. He could have gained 15 points on Verstappen, who was having a bad day, but he ended up only gaining 8, when he is still 76 points behind.
Hamilton, by contrast, would be 11 points behind Vettel in 2017, had he kept his third place. He only lost a further 3 points by giving back the place to Bottas. In this case, both drivers let each other through on track and were seemingly okay with this. Even then, many people questioned Hamilton’s decision to give the place back, although it didn’t prevent him from winning the championship.
Mayrton
22nd July 2024, 9:07
Based on the votes I fear Liberty is the real winner here. The audience is clearly shifting from racing lovers to entertainment lovers. Processional racing with polite race drivers is the future of F1 so it seems. Seems rather boring and less optimal from an athlete/sport perspective to me, but hey I am soon to be part of a niche audience.
SteuRui17 (@steurui17)
22nd July 2024, 11:39
Rright, it was great RACING when Norris on his own merit overtook Piastri on the track. Can really see how a RACING lover was amused by stuff like that! Oh, wait…
Christopher Rehn (@chrischrill)
22nd July 2024, 10:13
See I’m torn about this. On the one hand, Norris only got ahead thanks to the team pitting him sooner. So he didn’t earn the P1, he was gifted it.
But then he was clearly faster, and Piastri could not match Norris in the final stint. My take is that we were robbed of an actual battle.
Had Piastri emerged ahead of Norris, then the Brit would have had a chance to actually pass Piastri on track. If that had happened, Norris would deserve the win. Thanks to McLaren overcomplicating this, we did not get the opportunity.
So my answer is: “McLaren were wrong to create this scenario in the first place”.
With all that happened, I voted “No – Norris should not have complied with his team’s order to let Piastri by” because Norris was too fast for Piastri.
David BR (@david-br)
22nd July 2024, 12:45
@chrischrill Yeah, it’s tricky. I’m stuck between McLaren should never have asked Norris to have given back the place and, given that they did, Norris should have returned it quickly (and then fought for the win). Both team and driver got it wrong. Piastri didn’t really do anything wrong except for being slower in the final stint: if he’d caught Norris the situation would obviously have resolved itself with Norris giving way.
Caroline Phillips
22nd July 2024, 11:50
It was very sad to see that happen. It made the race look bad in the eyes of the onlooking spectators. They really should have let Lando win that he was so far ahead. It was rightly his
all it does is make it look not like a race if a driver waits for somebody else to overtake him on purpose.
An Sionnach
22nd July 2024, 12:50
He should have let him past straight away as he was only ahead due to an error by the team with the pitstops. Once he let him past, he could have then pressed Oscar and passed him. If he was fast enough to get past without risking an incident then he deserved the win. I suspect he was, but you never know given how difficult it is to overtake at this track.
Dane
22nd July 2024, 13:58
I guess I’m in the minority but I don’t think he should’ve done it. Max, Alonso or Vettel never would’ve done it. Even Lance Stroll would’ve give Alonso P7 in this very race. It feels like Lando isn’t serious about the title this year and McLaren aren’t helping his cause at all. It also takes the wind out of Piastri’s first victory because it feels less earned and more like a gift from his teammate.
Pete
22nd July 2024, 16:23
Ask a normal person and they’ll say “of course – he was handed the position by the team so he has to give it back.” Hard to argue with that really….
Ask a ruthless Championship winning driver and they’ll give you a different answer.
McLaren have the quickest car now and as things stand, if Lando finishes 1st in every race and Max finishes 2nd, Lando will win the title by 1 point (I’m aware the sprint nonsense will play a factor but I don’t care). The point is, it’s a possibility and if they’re going to win it, they have to do maximise everything to close the gap. McLaren need to quickly decide if they are serious about fighting for the title or whether they’re just having a bit of fun out front before the rest catch and overtake them.
Jockey Ewing
22nd July 2024, 18:07
If McLaren really wanted to do this, they should have thrown the heftier arguments earlier on, before it started to look entirely like beggarship.
Also, I think there were radio messages much earlier on, which hinted on that McLaren wants Norris to maintain the running order, even when Piastri was in front of Norris.
I have no problems with team orders, and drivers complying to them, until it turns into something very graceless. Why it is a team sport then? It is still better than when it turns into childishness, begging and whingery. F1 is very corporate by now, I think, compliance is an element of the professional skillset.
Also, to me it looked like, that after mid-race, so at about the time, when the first hinting messages were heard, that Piastri is losing pace for some reason, so there was a possibility of Norris overtaking him on track.
Jockey Ewing
22nd July 2024, 18:42
I think, in place of McLaren, I would have let Norris to take on Piastri, and beat him even on track. But apparently they have some kind of policies, and rules set, and they were trying to go by them.
I think, Piastri’s slight loss of pace might have come as a consequence of the quite brutal off track excursion he had in turn 11, maybe some damage, or some loss in the confidence.
If I were Max, I would not give the position back to Norris. Especially as initially, Lando dropped a bit far behind him (maybe it was a trick to make him to lose slightly more time upon giving back the position?). Also, that way there would have been a precedent, and we would have seen the penalty awarded for not doing so – as this kind of penalty was not really dealt to anyone recently.
Naively, I think it should have been 5 secs, and trying to follow the likely slower (than Norris) Piastri, could have been beneficial – especially as Norris dropped quite a bit behind for some reason. This way, using the tow of the McLarens he could have steered quite clear of Hamilton also, instead of tilting during most of the race.
Maybe Hamilton received some 5 secs penalties for reasons comparable to this (minor contact/squeezing/unsafe rejoin), during his dominant era, but often the way of serving them was not an open question for him, as against most of his opponents, he pulled so big gaps so soon relative to the victim, that giving it back, would have been way more hindering than taking such a penalty.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
22nd July 2024, 21:22
Oops, sorry I accidentally click on report. My apologies, please ignore it.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
22nd July 2024, 21:30
After sleeping on it, I feel that since Lando is currently 2nd in the championship, there’s still a possibility of him catching Verstappen with 11 races to go and 275 points on offer for the winners. Lando’s now 76 points behind Verstappen but he could have been 69 points behind.
From that perspective, I feel that McLaren have a responsibility towards the sport and every F1 fan to mount the strongest challenge for the WDC and WCC and that would have required them to give the victory to Lando.
Lando is too busy in the cockpit to do the calculation and he would have had to go against the team orders and sour the relationship with Oscar but Zak should have stepped in and asked Oscar to let Lando win so the team can challenge for the WDC and WCC.
Dale
22nd July 2024, 23:10
All the Aussies are in the comments with their Judas Brutus Piastri tinted glasses giving us their opinions as if they’re facts …