McLaren have explained what they meant by their repeated references to “papaya rules” in their radio messages to Lando Norris during the Italian Grand Prix.
The message was played twice on the world television feed during the race. Following his first pit stop, Norris’ race engineer Will Joseph told him: “Lando it’s likely we will have to cover for the other car. It will be papaya rules.”Later, when Norris was gaining on Piastri, Joseph told him: “You are allowed to race Oscar. Papaya rules.”
McLaren Racing CEO Zak Brown said the phrase was a reminder of the rules of racing for their two drivers: “Race each other respectfully, give each other enough room and don’t touch each other,” he said. “And that’s exactly what they did.”
The pair came close to colliding on the first lap of the race, when Piastri passed Norris on the outside of the Roggia chicane. Charles Leclerc pounced on Norris at the exit of the corner and passed the McLaren driver for second place, then went on to win.
Brown said his drivers were told “Just ‘don’t touch’, and they didn’t.”
“So it was good, hard racing. That’s what happens when you have two number ones. They want to both win the race and so it was clean.”
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Although Norris is McLaren’s leading driver in the championship, the team has so far refused to impose any orders on the pair of them. Brown suggested they might have handled the end of the race differently had Norris not gone off at one stage and fallen further behind Piastri.
“We’re just focussed on getting the best results that we can and we’re doing that every weekend,” he said. “Lando had his mistake there where he ran a bit long so that kind of put him out of contention, so we let them race to the end.”
Although Piastri led the opening stages of the race, Leclerc beat him to victory by pitting just once while the McLarens came in twice. McLaren “were discussing it but we felt it was best not to try,” Brown confirmed.
“They did, and I think they had nothing to lose in trying that strategy because the worst that would happen would be P3. But it worked for them and hats off, and it’s always kind of nice to see a Ferrari win in Monza.”
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2024 Italian Grand Prix
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Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
1st September 2024, 16:32
I think someone said yesterday “I keep waiting for Oscar but…”. Well, come sunday the story is changing week in, week out. Norris just makes too many unforced errors…
Dave
1st September 2024, 19:39
I knew from the beginning the pairing of these two drivers was not a good idea. Piastri was a star coming into F1 and is starting to assert himself – if he keeps it up McLaren will soon have a problem on their hands.
All it would take is for Lando to have a bad race – a DNF or outside of the top 10 coupled with an Oscar win and he is in the WDC race as well.
Zak should have seen this coming and went for a veteran driver such as Hulkenberg for Lando’s teammate.
Today Lando remarked that Oscar’s move at the start was too aggressive and could have ruined both of their races and it could have. Oscar showed he is going for it teammate or not.
This pairing is not going to last any more than ALO and HAM did.
I also think a lot of Lando’s mistakes are due to the pressure he is feeling from Oscar. Lando appears to be faster but mentally weaker than his teammate.
Be careful Zak – you may get what you wish for.
Mooa42
2nd September 2024, 3:31
I thought Lando went aggressive at the start to block Piastri, moved to the right at the start, took the inside line and Piastri had to take avoiding action, moving to the outside, which in turn hampered George.
Into the chicane Oscar was half a car length in front when he turned in, it was up to Lando to better execute that maneuver, if anything I think Lando was too aggressive trying to pressure Oscar into a mistake instead of conceding and coming through in front of Leclerc.
They tried that with Dani Ric.
Dave
2nd September 2024, 15:42
Just because Dan failed doesn’t mean a Hulk or Bottas would have.
As it is, McLaren have made several bone head decisions due to Piastri’s exceptional performances – muddling who is the better driver or team leader.
It may work out fine or it could turn toxic. If yesterday is an indicator, Zak may have sleepless nights ahead.
Ryan Costello
2nd September 2024, 9:22
Oh no, mclaren will have two world championship contending caliber drivers, what a horrible problem to have 😂 *laughs in williams*
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
2nd September 2024, 16:40
Well, alonso and hamilton didn’t make it to the 2nd year, piastri and norris did!
Nick T.
1st September 2024, 16:39
Nothing cryptic about it. It obviously meant team rules. Hardly a Hardy Boys mystery.
Jere (@jerejj)
1st September 2024, 17:09
Indeed. Precisely the same meaning as when any other sports team name gets combined with the word rules.
Edvaldo
1st September 2024, 16:48
I could say all that Norris needed to do was to lead the first lap, but the fact is that Piastri was faster than him today.
If they’re allowed to fight, then he would get passed sooner or later as his tyre management was also worse.
Max has a 70-point lead and Perez will get in the mud if needed to make it easier for him while McLaren still allows the guys to fight even with a clear chance at the WDC on their hands.
David BR (@david-br)
1st September 2024, 16:55
‘Papaya rules’ sounds like some self-indulgent gibberish from a team unable to rise to the levels set over the past decade+ by Red Bull and Mercedes. Congratulations Max on your 4th world championship. You have no serious competition this season.
Nick T.
1st September 2024, 17:07
I bet they think it sounds cute or cool. It doesn’t. However, people get so uppity when they hear “team rules,” I slightly understand why they’ve changed the nomenclature slightly.
David BR (@david-br)
1st September 2024, 17:19
All they have to say is ‘OK to race but be careful.’ Isn’t ‘team rules’ not OK to race?
I think this goes back to Hungary: Oscar still wants to ‘feel’ a race win and is maybe aggrieved that the issue surrounding Norris giving the place back kind of detracted from the victory buzz. So he won’t be happy until he’s won a race ‘properly’ and McLaren sort of understand and back that. Because I can’t think of any other explanation for not now optimizing race results in Lando’s favour and thus winning the WDC.
Nick T.
1st September 2024, 17:33
I agree with you. I’m merely speculating on why they’re using the silly name “Paypaya rules” generally, which I assumed meant you can battle, but don’t hit each other. I agree not reversing an 2-3 order was beyond absurd even if I still feel that people are dreaming when they think Norris could catch Max.
Rhys Lloyd (@justrhysism)
2nd September 2024, 4:00
Brown suggested that had Lando not made a mistake and been closer to Oscar at the end of the race they might’ve switched them.
Nick T.
2nd September 2024, 13:41
Well, that’s a single say for Sack to say.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
2nd September 2024, 16:46
So with the benefit of hindsight, they should’ve let norris win hungary, (he was faster, but he didn’t get track position on merit) at least they’d have gained more points then and would still be in the same situation, where piastri doesn’t help norris cause he wants a deserved win.
Alternatively, best option ofc, they could not have cared about the non-existent threat from hamilton, and avoided having norris undercut piastri in that case, so he’d have had his win on merit and now would be helping norris.
Roger Ayles (@roger-ayles)
1st September 2024, 17:06
So they are admitting they aren’t interested in winning a championship.
At this point in the year if they want to go for the admittedly small chance they have at winning a drivers championship they need to start favouring Lando. Yes again his shot at beating Max is small but it’s still possible if Max gets some misfortune & DNF’s from a race or 2.
Making the tough decisions like this is how teams like Ferrari & Red Bull end up winning multiple championships. They know to win you need to be ruthless & accept any criticism that may come with it. They are supposed to be there to win & you do whatever you must in order to win….. Or at least it was when F1 was still seen as a sport.
José Lopes da Silva
1st September 2024, 17:21
If you flashback to Austria 2002 you can be sure that never as that day was F1 criticised for “not being a sport anymore”. Please use any argument apart from that one.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
2nd September 2024, 16:50
However there’s reasonable team orders and there’s not: in this situation it’s understandable to go for the small chance you have with norris, in the case of 2002 they were dominating, hence not needed, and I’m gonna bring another example that was just as bad: russia 2018, with hamilton 50 points ahead and merc the better car in those races, with bottas performing better in russia and having to give up the win, unnecessary team order.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
2nd September 2024, 16:50
However there’s reasonable team orders and there’s not: in this situation it’s understandable to go for the small chance you have with norris, in the case of 2002 they were dominating, hence not needed, and I’m gonna bring another example that was just as bad: russia 2018, with hamilton 50 points ahead and merc the better car in those races, with bottas performing better in russia and having to give up the win, unnecessary team order.
David BR (@david-br)
1st September 2024, 17:24
@roger-ayles I asked on Saturday whether McLaren were going to let Piastri pass Norris aggressively at the race start and risk him losing more than one place. Precisely what happened. Not only did that dent Norris (and McLaren’s!) chance of the drivers’ title, it meant they failed to control the race from the front. A huge missed opportunity.
BMW P85 V10
1st September 2024, 17:57
I think McLaren knows Norris hasn’t got what it takes to fight for WDC’s. Making him the #1 driver for this season will give the team a hard time making Piastri the #1 driver.He’s the one wit more potential. Don’t get wrong. Norris is fast, but he laks consistency and the “killer mentality”yo need to fight for multiple WDC’s.
My take is they know Piastri will be faster and more consistent driver in the near future and therefore let them race for this season. WCC will be an easy win for McLaren the way things are now.
uzsjgb (@uzsjgb)
1st September 2024, 18:27
I agree with this. Piastri is just too good to be put into a supporting role so early in his development. It makes absolutely no sense to hire two strong No.1 drivers and then force one of those No.1 drivers into a supporting role. If that is your tactic, then hire a weaker driver.
For me personally a world championship won by team orders is worth little. If McLaren had team orders, then it be at least two races now, where the faster and better Piastri would have let Norris pass him. First rule if you want to become world champion: beat your team-mate!
José Lopes da Silva
1st September 2024, 21:19
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Malaysian_Grand_Prix
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
2nd September 2024, 16:53
Unsure why bringing up that race, it’s famous for schumacher letting irvine by, despite being faster than him, just because of the amount of points they had, since schumacher had missed 6 races, but not sure how it relates to this situation where you have 2 number 1s.
Vyacheslav
1st September 2024, 20:05
Only problem is – it can take another 15 years to get a CHANCE to win a champ for the team.
Nick T.
2nd September 2024, 13:43
I don’t think Piastri will ever be faster than Norris. Just more consistent maybe. Neither of them are at the level of the three best drivers of our era (Max, Lewis and Alonso), but then neither is Leclerc.
José Lopes da Silva
1st September 2024, 17:20
For many years we had people complaining that teams were unsportingly giving preference to a driver over another, either on track or giving a better car.
It’s good, for a change, to see people complaining that a team is not doing that when it was supposed to.
Anyway, McLaren Does Not Issue Championship Orders, the unwritten F1 rule applies.
MichaelN
1st September 2024, 17:23
Verstappen’s 62 point lead is still ‘only’ 8 points per race, not counting sprints. If Horner keeps fumbling the in-season development of his squad, this is a surmountable gap. Problem is, Norris is only scoring 8 more points than Verstappen here and in Zandvoort. It’s bare-minimum stuff. And, perhaps more serious, it’s also the best he’s done all year. Aside from that +15 in Australia where Verstappen had his DNF, Norris has not outscored Verstappen by more than 8 points in any race.
The gap should be much smaller, and with the pressure mounting on Red Bull to fix their issues, something like a 30 point gap would start to make this Norris’ championship to lose. The way it is now, it looks like he might just do exactly that.
Nick T.
1st September 2024, 17:53
And since RBR said losing Newey wasn’t that important, those fixes should be easy. I bet Newey smirks more and more every week.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
2nd September 2024, 16:56
Indeed, it’s looking more and more like red bull badly needed newey and shot themselves in the foot when they didn’t acknowledge his work.
Pete
1st September 2024, 18:00
The words of a man who doesn’t know what it takes to win a Championship.
Can you imagine Horner or Toto saying that if their teams threw away a 1-2?
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
2nd September 2024, 16:59
Mmm, I’ve seen them congratulation other teams for their wins, I’m not sure if it ever happened when their teams threw away wins though.
GechiChan (@gechichan)
1st September 2024, 18:39
Yeah, they raced each other so clean that they forgot about Leclerc. This was a bad race for McLaren, it looked like an easy 1-2 if they kept it together in the first lap. But
If I'm not wery much mistaken (@ifiamnotwerymuchmistaken)
1st September 2024, 19:42
Norris has the speed, but lacks the “me first” mentality, the selfishness all the very best F1 drivers displayed. Piastri has that mentality. Had their roles been reversed at the start I bet Norris wouldn’t have gone for the lead at turn 4 because he’d considered it too risky a move. Ungentlemanly, even.
Vyacheslav
1st September 2024, 20:03
A whole problem is a management, it is their task to handle this. A boss should extract a best result from the potential. What McLaren is doing is a madness.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
2nd September 2024, 17:00
Yes, definitely the team is to blame for not telling piastri the situation before the race began, I don’t see how the move he did on lap 1 is allowed from a “team first” perspective.
Vyacheslav
1st September 2024, 19:59
A worst management of McLaren since 2007 favoritism of Dennis towards Hamilton. Not a fan of Norris nor McLaren, but feel very sad for him. And I dont see any rational explanation of such decisions. A possibility to win a title is a quite rare thing. I also hope that McLaren will lose a construction champ (hopefully to Ferrari). Totally deserve this.
Stoo
2nd September 2024, 14:35
I’m so angry about Zac’s mismanagement that I’m going to unsubscribe from the McLaren Team in every category, and it’s something I never ever got close to doing in the past. I’ve been a fan of McL since 1967/8 and what they’ve done to Norris as far as team loyalty is concerned is almost criminal.
He stuck with them all through the crap years when he was lucky to get into Q2, and now that he’s mastered the car they’ve supported a rookie because he’s ruthless and doesn’t give a damn about anyone but himself – a bit like another driver on the grid I could name.
I hope the ramifications come back to bite them in the posterior at some point in the future, because Piastri will not show McLaren any loyalty at all – a bit like the Frog and Scorpion Joke – it’s in his nature !
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
2nd September 2024, 17:03
Pretty sure you mean verstappen as the other ruthless driver who doesn’t give a damn about anyone else, and I’d agree with that, I’m impressed someone who’s been a mclaren fan since they began in f1 is so negative on their management atm, even though they’re indeed throwing lots of points in the driver’s championship away.
We’ll have to do some math in the end of the season and see if those points will have been determinant.
Phil Norman (@phil-f1-21)
1st September 2024, 20:09
Based on what we have seen since the summer break, the WCC win looks like a foregone conclusion for McLaren. But I wonder if they will come to regret their decisions not to arrange for Norris to get maximum points when he can?
I don’t mean for the two McLaren drivers should not race at all. But perhaps near the end, they could have swapped them to allow Lando to get more points? If Max becomes WDC by less than 20 points say, the team might regret it.
BenHur
2nd September 2024, 20:11
What did y’all expect from a team that did not fire their poisonous rookie in Hungaroring 2006?
BenHur
2nd September 2024, 20:12
2007!!