Max Verstappen, Sergio Perez, Red Bull, Monza, 2024

Verstappen now has same problems I’ve had for most of season – Perez

Formula 1

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Sergio Perez believes the problems Max Verstappen is struggling with in his Red Bull are the same ones he encountered many races earlier.

The pair qualified on the fourth row of the grid for this weekend’s race and were separated by two places at the chequered flag. Verstappen has beaten Perez by much larger margins for much of the year, particularly since the seventh round of the championship at Imola. Perez finished every race prior to that inside the top five, and hasn’t done so again since.

Now Perez suspects Verstappen is encountering the same problems he first experienced much earlier in the season.

“I really feel like I’m in the same boat as I’ve been in the last 10 races,” he told the official F1 channel. “But now, all of a sudden, Max has come to similar issues.

“So there’s a little bit of confusion there. But it’s clear in the data where the problem is.”

Red Bull team principal Christian Horner said after qualifying yesterday that the problems with their car persisted even when the tried switching Verstappen back to an older specification at the Dutch Grand Prix.

Perez finished today’s race in eighth position. “I’m pretty disappointed,” he admitted afterwards. “I was expecting it to be difficult, but not this bad. We basically were slow and high degradation, especially on the medium [tyre compound].”

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He had a lengthy scrap with George Russell at one stage, and though he was unable to keep the Mercedes driver behind, Perez was pleased Verstappen could out-run him to the flag.

“I compromised a little bit my race, I think, to keep George behind,” he said. “That worked quite well for us because we were able to hold George behind for a little bit.

“In the end he came really close to Max so I think it made a difference to the team in terms of points that we secured today.”

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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65 comments on “Verstappen now has same problems I’ve had for most of season – Perez”

    1. Exactly. That’s the only possible response to this.

    2. A virus, maybe ?

      1. Excuse me?

        1. He’s saying, I think maybe, that the same problem Max has now too is a virus.

  1. Seeing Red Bull with these many issues, releasing Perez is probably at the bottom of their priorities now.

    1. He’s always been at the bottom of their priorities, especially after Baku 2023

    2. So far he lost far more points than the recent car performance did. They are a team of a thousand people, give or take. I’m sure they can multitask, especially since they have different departments for all sorts of things.
      And it seems that he’s not even willing to accept it’s about him and his performance. Even if what he says make sense (no, it doesn’t, since Verstappen is still at least half a second faster), Verstappen has issues now, and Checo have them for years; no matter how fast the car is. It’s somehow embarrassing to compare their situations.
      I hate excuses, and Perez is usually full of them. I like the guy in fact, and it’s not his fault that he’s not extremely fast to match Verstappen; but I see no benefit of keeping him around. He’s been the slowest driver from the top 4 teams even when RB was still the quickest, being Red Bull’s own Sargeant (with less spinning around).

  2. José Lopes da Silva
    1st September 2024, 18:21

    “…and most of last season, too. Ever since Miami, to be more precise.”

  3. Same car, nowhere near the same problems. The direction of development for the car has moved away from Max this past few months, but he’s a hundred times more adaptable than Checo and will have a handle on handling over the next couple of races.

  4. Checo is lucky that these issues will probably save him from even a post-season contract termination.

  5. Translating: ‘Evil car has now made Verstappen rubbish too.”
    Spooky.

  6. Sure Sergio… whatever makes you feel better about your performaces

  7. The same problem being he’s not faster than 6 cars ahead of him. The key difference being that this is how because three teams have faster cars. Perez didn’t have that excuse

  8. Ah so this confirms Red Bull have been designing 2 different cars. Right right

    1. @krichelle Or had something on one car only that was taken off that one car at some point in the season?
      It’s an idea that explains the drop off in Verstappen’s performance relative to Pérez (and everyone else), Pérez’s quite cryptic comment, and – who knows – why Pérez was kept on despite the apparently huge gap to Verstappen. Hmm.

      “I really feel like I’m in the same boat as I’ve been in the last 10 races. But now, all of a sudden, Max has come to similar issues. So there’s a little bit of confusion there. But it’s clear in the data where the problem is.”

      So there’s confusion but it’s clear? Quite a strange statement. Or hint.

      1. Dimitri Livadas
        3rd September 2024, 18:04

        Or rather, “something” that was on both cars at the beginning of the season – that was then removed from one of the cars to help with the development in anticipation of that “something” becoming illegal from Zandvoort onwards. This knowledge could also have been the card Perez played to stay in the game after the summer break. Just too many coincidences.

        1. That’s a good hypothetical too.

  9. TOTALLY UNFAIR to expect #1 to put up with the same car the #2 gets!

  10. Funniest thing I’ve read all day. Perez using the car’s recent performance slump in comparison to their rivals as a excuse for his awful performance all season long

    1. Well I’m laughing, just not with you.
      What makes you think the drivers get the same car? They are actually separate cars, you can tell by the numbers on them, and the fact they are sometimes seen together, at the same time. So why would you assume the bits inside have the exact same specification? When just one of the drivers is the big asset for the team?
      Maybe RB ran out of the special bits they usually only give to Max? Careless of them.

      1. Because 2 specs is too expensive to devel AND build that why…..

        1. But they “MAY” only have had that non-conforming valve in Max’s car, and that’s why they were happy for Perez to be at a lower performance level than Max, as it deflected any attention to it being “Max is an F1 champion driver” and Perez is a rear gunner for the team scenario – so they could attribute the brake balance device’s advantage to that!

          1. Maybe you didn’t read it no team USED it but several teams asked/informed of it could be used and Yes Mercedes was 1 of those

          2. @macleod So why were those teams suddenly asking about such a system? They all happened on the same idea simultaneously out of the blue?

      2. They were desperate to get that first 1-2 WDC finishing order last year, but they’re giving the drivers different cars? Get real, buddy.

        1. Nick T., the homologation forms that Red Bull are required to submit when introducing upgrades have confirmed that Red Bull have run different specification parts for Verstappen and Perez at different times during the 2023 season, and also during this season as well. For example, we know, as a matter of objective fact, that Verstappen used different specification bodywork during the Hungarian GP this year, whereas Perez used an older specification.

          Red Bull themselves have also confirmed that there have been times in previous seasons where Verstappen would receive upgrades ahead of Perez, or sometimes would be the only driver to receive certain components. In 2022, for example, when Verstappen was having occasional DRS problems, Red Bull confirmed it was because they’d developed a lightweight DRS mechanism that was only being used on Verstappen’s car (whereas Perez was using an older specification mechanism that was also heavier).

          The idea that Perez and Verstappen have therefore had different specification cars at times during a season is therefore not in doubt – the question would be more about how frequently that occurs, how far apart the differences in specification might be and how many races between first introducing the new parts and when both drivers get the new parts.

          1. Isn’t that just very common in F1…?

            Drivers often take turns testing new parts and not every upgrade actually turns out to be an update. Newest parts suggest progress, but they don’t always work and therefore drivers take turns testing the parts.
            Verstappen’s DRS for example was quite dodgy.

          2. That’s not what they meant and you know it. And, yes, I’m aware they’ve run different specs a few times. However, since those upgrades haven’t improved the car much or at all in some cases, that might account for 15% of the performance gap we’ve since when it has happened. His implication is that they’re regularly giving Max a much better car while if Max was driving Checo’s car, he’d be much slower. That is the idea I find ludicrous.

            The bottom line = they have the resources to run two equally well prepared cars (even if, at times, they can only get enough of the newest spec for one car) and they have a major incentive to give Checo the best car they can. They know Checo is never going to challenge Max and they also want both drivers scoring as many points as possible.

      3. Tell me you don’t know anything about F1 without telling me you don’t know anything about F1. You should inform yourself a little better before you state absolute drivel.

    2. Maybe only Max ran the Asymetrical Braking system..?

      1. Which was banned as of zandvoort but the problems started in spain (according to max) or miami, according to the results

        1. Well the rumour is that it was taken off at or around Miami. If such a thing every existed of course.

      2. @optimaximal If there’s any truth to that, maybe we’ve all being doing Pérez quite a lot of disservice.

  11. Perez: just zip it.

    1. Davethechicken
      2nd September 2024, 12:18

      Reported comment by accident. Apologies

      1. Which says enough about how high asteem perez has atm, if comments telling him to shut up are only reported accidentally!

  12. Super LOL! I wonder what Will Wood driver rating would give Verstappen for this race. Probably a 7 again.

    1. Probably a 9 he so outperformed the car..

    2. ohnoooo how dare they!! Can not handle giving credit to others than your favourite??

  13. Misery likes company

  14. A simple solution would be to use the earlier spec at least they don’t have a slower car.

    At least drop the “upgrades” would help at least. Chorner with his Adrian just helped a small part develop nonsense should look to fire himself.
    Don’t listen to the drivers and some part of of the develop team is a good way too improve…….NOT.

    1. If old spec means an illegal breaking system, they won’t be able to go back. At least for Max car….

      1. Missed that, what is this illegal breaking system ?

        1. Some idea people thought Red Bull used like the DAS but with the brake system giving the rears a different breakforce on Esch wheel..not illegal but in the grey part of the rules.
          The FIA cleared that up when teams starting asking if the could use it.

          1. But banned it as of zandvoort while the performance problems started way before that.

          2. “not illegal but in the grey part of the rules”

            I didn’t think there was anything at all grey about it. Years ago, I think it was McLaren were using driver-operated asymmetric braking and the FIA made it very clear at the time that any form of lateral asymmetric braking was a driver aid, against the rules, and expressly forbidden. The real mystery was why the FIA felt the need to issue a clarification recently, and of cours it does seem strange that this has coincided with a Red Bull downturn, and you have to wonder if someone disgruntled at Red Bull had dropped a hint with the FIA.

    2. I would like to understand what’s against taking (returning to) the car they started the season with to at least make it drivable. There were no balance issues then. Now I understand the other teams may have caught up since the beginning of the season, but I recall RedBull enjoyed a lead back then. Have the other teams really found such progress it wouldn’t make sense to revert to that car?

      1. Davethechicken
        2nd September 2024, 16:21

        Interesting thought, Mayrton. Maybe someone in Red Bull is putting the brakes on that idea.

      2. Yes, I also think it’d be worth a shot, I don’t see how it could be worse than now, where they’re the 4th best car! Can’t possibly fall behind aston.

      3. I’d be interested to see the results of this too.

  15. Redbull will miss all those points that Perez should have scored first part of the season…

    1. Yes, however at this rate where mclaren is the fastest car and red bull 4th, the season might end in such a situation where the car was on average too bad to win the constructor’s championship, perez or not, we’ll have to see, but for example he can’t have thrown away 100 points, I think.

    2. So about 140 vs 300 points for perez and verstappen, but obviously the potential replacement wouldn’t have been at that level, maybe would’ve got 200-220 so far.

  16. Well played Checo.

  17. The difference in performance between Max and Checo was smaller than usual in Monza because there are so few slow or medium speed corners vs. a more traditional track. Plus the fact that the car is more understeery after recent “upgrades”, which definitely doesn’t suit Max.

  18. This isn;t rocket science really, Perez being closer at the start of each season when the drivers still need some time to find the sweet spot, quite similar to Perez being a bit closer now the car is totally unbalanced. The car simply can’t be pushed because it’s highly unpredictable and off balance, once RBR get on top of the (aero) issue, they can push more and the gap will increase again.

    It’s been this way a couple of (early) seasons, but never before did RBR suffer from such a mid season slump, from best to fourth in just 6 races, ofcourse Singapore 23 and Monaco 24 was already a give away of the car’s issues.

    1. True, it’s a massive slump indeed for a team that’s usually good at in season development, but then again they were convinced newey didn’t make much of a difference, so they asked for it; I also think monaco 2024 wasn’t as bad as it looked, 3rd place in quali was on the cards, and consequently in the race too, without a mistake verstappen made, which is still a warning shot, like you said.

      1. You could say for the same reasons Verstappen could have qualified much better in Monza, because of his (better) Q2 times, but he didn’t as the car behaved different, this was the exact situation in Monaco as well.

        RBR are adrift like Ferrari got lost with set-ups in 2018, competition in 24 is closer and the effect therefore more dramatic.

  19. I know the tendency is to scoff and see this as opportunism from Perez but I think at it’s heart it’s true. Other than Max no-one has performed well in a red bull for half a decade.

    Recent performances remind me of Webber’s 2010-2013 spell. When the car was well balanced, he was able to match Vettel. In 2010, Webber led going into the last round. In 2012 he was ahead as late as round 11 of 20 but Seb won 4 in a row in the last 7 races to pull away. In the other 2 seasons Webber might as well have been racing a different sport.

    I don’t think this in any way excuses Perez’s atrocious form since early 2023 but I think it proves the design philosophy puts the car in a very specific window which Max is normally able to find via set up or driving style. Now that he has lost the confidence to push the car, he’s not capable of the final half second that embarrassed Gasly, Albon and Perez.

    Obviously the team will go out of their way to fix Max’s issues but I expect Perez to highlight Monza as a “what might have been” (despite finishing 17s behind) for years to come.

  20. Following that logic if they developed the car the wrong way, this would mean that Checo had all of the upgrades before Max. Even more than two seasons before Max.

  21. Perez is kididng himself if he thinks mysterious problems and gremlins were the thing stopping him being up there with Max.

    If I designed an F1 car, you could put Max in one seat Latifi in the other, and they’d finish comfortably last in the race, 18 laps behind the leaders. That doesn’t mean that Latifi must be almost as good as Max because, it just means the car is crap. Given a moderately good car, you’d quickly see a gap appear between the drivers. And then, if the car has some miracle tech to make it unbeatable, they’d be back together again at the top. I think it was the car superiority which flattered Perez, in the same way it made Bottas look almost as fast as Hamilton, Barrichello almost as fast as Schumacher. The Red Bull has gone from dominant, with both drivers always at the sharp end, to tricky, which exposed the difference between the drivers, to almost slow, which is pushing Max back towards Perez.

    1. Yes, that’s a good point in that they had all 3 phases of the car: a dominant one like the 2002 ferrari, a tricky one like the 1994-1995 benetton, who no one but schumacher made it work, and one like the 2005 ferrari, as we’re at it, which no driver could’ve led to victory.

      1. Ofc tyres were to blame too in 2005.

  22. Sometimes it’s better to chew than to talk.

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