Kevin Magnussen will not be on the grid for the next round of the world championship after picking up five penalties in the space of 15 rounds.
He is the first Formula 1 driver to be barred from a round of the championship under the penalty points system which the FIA introduced 10 years ago.Magnussen’s latest penalty, for a collision with Pierre Gasly, added two further points to the 10 he carried since the Miami Grand Prix in May. That took him to the threshold of 12 which results in an automatic ban.
Of Magnussen’s four previous penalties, three were also for collisions with other drivers. He received two points for his contact with Yuki Tsunoda in China and Logan Sargeant in Miami. His other collision, when he squeezed Alexander Albon into a barrier in Jeddah, was deemed serious enough to be worth three penalty points.
Were Magnussen’s five incidents enough to warrant a one-race ban? Or has the first application of the automatic ban for 12 penalty points showed the system is too harsh?
For
Of the five incidents Magnussen was penalised for, his Monza clash with Gasly was the least consequential. Unlike in China and Miami, he did not put his rival out of the race.
However it was another careless piece of driving which resulted in contact. The penalty points system exists to keep a track of drivers who persistently commit driving offences, which is exactly what it has done in Magnussen’s case.
Importantly, the stewards are supposed to issue penalties based on the incidents themselves, not on their consequences, which is why Magnussen did not receive a harsher penalty for causing collisions which resulted in retirements.
Against
Magnussen has committed some incidents worth of significant penalties this year, but taken together they are not serious enough to be worth banning him from a race.
In particular, his cornering-cutting antics in Miami may have been cynical but they were not dangerous. At Monza, the stewards should have been prepared to say ‘no harm, no foul’ and not penalise him for his inconsequential collision with Gasly.
Magnussen’s ban highlights the stewards’ inconsistency in applying penalty points. None were given to Gasly in Melbourne last year for rejoining the track unsafely and causing an avoidable collision, when doing so would likely have resulted in a ban for him.
Advert | Become a RaceFans supporter and
I say
Before Magnussen collected his last two penalty points I asked him whether he would modify his approach to racing to avoid triggering a ban. He said he would not: “It’s better to just go for it and then if I get a race ban, I get a race ban.”
So his present situation feels both inevitable and avoidable. The penalty points he was issued were supposed to motivate him to avoid similar incidents in future, but he did not.
I would have been strongly opposed to a driver being banned for collecting penalty points had it occured when the stewards issued points for incidents as trivial as exceeding track limits. I felt this was unjust when it happened to F2 drivers in previous seasons.
It’s hard to quibble over most of the points given to Magnussen this season however, besides the strange incident in the Miami sprint race for which no clear precedent exists.
That said, there are now five more rounds on the calendar than when the penalty points system was introduced, plus an extra six sprint races per year. This has significantly increased the opportunity for drivers to collect penalty points, and the FIA should consider adjusting the system to take that into account.
You say
Does Magnussen deserve to be banned from the next round given the incidents he’s been involved in so far this season? Cast your vote below and have your say in the comments.
Do you agree Kevin Magnussen deserves to be banned from the next race?
- No opinion (0%)
- Strongly disagree (24%)
- Slightly disagree (10%)
- Neither agree nor disagree (3%)
- Slightly agree (21%)
- Strongly agree (42%)
Total Voters: 146
Loading ...A RaceFans account is required in order to vote. If you do not have one, register an account here or read more about registering here. When this poll is closed the result will be displayed instead of the voting form.
Advert | Become a RaceFans supporter and
Miss nothing from RaceFans
Get a daily email with all our latest stories - and nothing else. No marketing, no ads. Sign up here:
Debates and polls
- Is Mohammed Ben Sulayem doing a good job for F1 as FIA president?
- Five years on, should F1 scrap, keep or tweak the fastest lap point?
- Should Sainz and Perez have avoided penalties for their Azerbaijan GP crash?
- Is F1’s record reliability rate making the sport better?
- Should F1 ensure ‘sustainable’ fuels are no pipe dream before ditching hybrids?
Terrion (@terrion)
2nd September 2024, 12:36
The rules are rules. And in midfield team situation, it’s better to push harder, especially when points are on the line.
The only thing I hate about the situation is the stewards not willing to give him penalties because of this possible concequence. And I hate even more that Gasly did not receive a ban after Melbourne last year.
Nick T.
2nd September 2024, 13:22
That and we had already had this discussion in an earlier article when they announced the ban. There were tons of comments on where people stood.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
2nd September 2024, 15:48
@terrion
I recommend you watch Dopesick to understand how the rules are not the rules and are enforced only on an individual basis. Or better don’t watch it cause once you do you will lose all respect for any agency.
Terrion (@terrion)
2nd September 2024, 16:58
Okay, I won’t watch it then. Thanks, free little birds!
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
2nd September 2024, 18:43
Smart choice – ignorance is bliss:-)
David BR (@david-br)
2nd September 2024, 12:42
Strongly agree, partly because if the points system exists, its consequences have to be applied at some time for it to be meaningfui. And mostly because I felt he should have been given a race ban immediately after Miami. Whatever Magnussen was doing, it wasn’t F1 racing, it was disrespectful of the sport and his rivals. I don’t know why F1 is so reluctant to issue race bans as penalties or disqualifications during races for blatant (and in K-Mag’s case repeated) disrespect of the rules. Monza was harsh but basically, so what? It’s accumulative.
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
2nd September 2024, 13:24
I’ve never really had much time for the penalty points system. It’s far too varied for my liking. One point for unsafe release is harsh, Alonso’s 3 points in China was horrific stewarding. 2 points for Perez against Norris in Abu Dhabi felt unnecessary too.
I think if you can’t stand by individual incidents then totalling them up makes little sense to me. I think Kevin should have had a race ban but after Miami rather than here. I’d rather they used t
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
2nd September 2024, 13:27
I’d rather they used one weekend and drew a line under it. Getting 12 unsafe releases or speeding under a yellow isn’t really worthy of a ban for me.
The other point I’d look at is this was introduced when there were 19 events, now there are 24 so there should be a 20 percent uplift.
Nick T.
2nd September 2024, 14:15
And let’s not forget Johnny Herbert suddenly pulling a 20-second penalty out of his bass for Australia. The automatic 10-second rule should only apply to passing off the track because a 5-second penalty was usually worth it because you’d lose more time sitting behind and trying to pass a driver who had slower outright pace. It should be at the stewards discretion if contact only merits a 5-second penalty. After all, there are major variations in contact. Like when a driver just comes flying into a corner locks up and t-bones a car, that merits 10 second. Not wheel-to-wheel contact.
David BR (@david-br)
2nd September 2024, 15:24
@rbalonso I agree, If the system exists, it should be applied or its worse than useless. But I’d rather a judicious use of race bans and disqualifications (‘red cards’) than a points system that verges on incoherence.
Jere (@jerejj)
2nd September 2024, 14:07
@david-br He should’ve received the remaining two in Monaco already.
fonz
2nd September 2024, 15:46
if corner cutting is worth the penalty then it is the rules that are wrong. No different than “professional fouls” than happens in other sports all the time
Mal Ross (@malross)
2nd September 2024, 20:52
You’re really saying professional fouls are ok? Have I got that right?
An Sionnach
2nd September 2024, 13:16
Yes. If people don’t like the points system they could examine punishment for specific incidents that deserve race bans. This year… Yuki’s aggressive driving around Ricciardo after the race in Bahrain should have been considered. I’m not sure if you can be black flagged for something after a race, but a one-race ban wouldn’t have been out of place here.
Jonathan Parkin
2nd September 2024, 20:18
Takuma Sato was I believe after one Chinese GP – I forget the year
Christopher Rehn (@chrischrill)
2nd September 2024, 13:31
He should have been banned after Miami already, his driving there was actually genuinely dangerous. If not then, definitely at Monaco where he caused the Perez-Hulkenberg-Magnussen pileup.
But this incident with Gasly was minor at best, not sure it warranted two points. Hey, at least we get to see Bearman drive the Haas at Baku.
bernasaurus (@bernasaurus)
2nd September 2024, 14:27
Yeah, I’d put Miami down as dangerous. He was throwing it all over the place, he didn’t hit anyone but he was using random as tool in the fight. I’m surprised Lewis was relatively chill about it.
Ben
2nd September 2024, 15:39
+1 he got away with Miami due to the weakness of the FIA. They never intended to actually ban an F1 driver, so usually make it up as they go along in terms of how many penalty points a specific incident is worth.
Only picking up 3 points for the sprint in Miami was a joke. That was some of the worst “driving” I’ve seen.
100% he deserves a ban. He deserves to be dropped and deserves to never race in F1 again. Haas also should take some of the blame. This tactic to drive dangerously slow to help a team mate just doesn’t fit right in F1. The speeds are too high and its a sign of a desperate team rather than one which loves to go racing.
JA
2nd September 2024, 20:57
This tactic is something out of the history books and one ALL teams (and sometimes just the singular driver) have used within the last couple of years. Its not just a desperate Haas team.
Christopher Rehn (@chrischrill)
2nd September 2024, 13:34
The fact this system has lasted from 2013 until 2024 before banning a driver is also proof it works, right? Surely one driver every 12 seasons means we don’t ban people too swiftly.
MichaelN
2nd September 2024, 13:47
There are a handful of people who, since the introduction of this system, were a perfect fit for the ‘why is it always you three’ Harry Potter meme. Magnussen is one of them, and Gasly was another. Gasly’s fortuitous timing of his move from Red Bull to Alpine proved his saving grace, as there was not just one but two teams lobbying the FIA to avoid giving more penalties. To their discredit, they relented and not even the daft Australia pile-up resulted in any penalties. Magnussen, who has been dumped by his team, had no such luxury. So while the FIA deserves some credit for finally following through on the system, it shouldn’t be overstated.
Another thing to consider; Gasly has mostly cleaned up his act. So while there are valid discussions to be had about the lack of consistency by the stewards in awarding penalty points, the threat is putting people on notice and no doubt helps calm them down just a tad. Usually, that’s enough. Of course the drivers will make a big drama about not being able to race freely, yada yada. But that’s not the case. F1 wants to see good moves – like Piastri’s – not clumsy moves – like Magnussen’s.
Nick T.
2nd September 2024, 14:21
A good summary. My only problem is some of the incidents they’re giving penalty points and time penalties for (see RBAlonso’s comment above) and that all contact is now an automatic 10-second penalty, which is way too much for wheel-to-wheel contact since it usually ruins a drivers race with how tight the grid is and would have, had the penalty been served during a pit stop. So, while KMag earned his ban, a 10-second penalty for the type of contact he had w/Gasly seemed over the top to me.
Jere (@jerejj)
2nd September 2024, 14:12
‘Strongly agree’ was an easy choice, simply because FIA chose twelve as the limit back in 2014 & he reached it, so if they’d never apply the system, they should drop it altogether.
The remaining two penalty points for the Della Roggia contact were justified as Magnussen arrived into the chicane too fast to stay on track & effectively used Gasly as a brake, which isn’t fair racing.
He should’ve received the remaining two already in Monaco as he didn’t bother to back off in a clear-cut situation there nor in Miami but forced a collision & additionally, he should’ve been held solely accountable for the crash damage bill he caused to Red Bull Racing.
Besides, Gasly’s 2023 Australian GP situation is incomparable because it only happened due to a chain reaction caused by Sainz.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
2nd September 2024, 14:53
If Magnussen deserves a ban then surely Verstappen deserves one or more. If you’re going to ban Magnussen who drives arguably much less dangerously than Verstappen, then you need to justify how Verstappen can pass everyone around the pits and do anything he likes on track.
Christopher Rehn (@chrischrill)
3rd September 2024, 8:35
The difference being Magnussen does things we know you are not allowed (like purposely going off-track to force Hamilton off, thereby giving a gap to Hulkenberg) whereas Verstappen operates in the grey area and he knows he is. Verstappen pushes the current ruleset, Magnussen disobeys it.
The question therefore is “are the rules correct?” but as they currently stand, Magnussen deserves a race ban and Verstappen does not.
GT Racer (@gt-racer)
2nd September 2024, 15:37
As I said in another discussion.
Magnussen’s ban has really frustrated most of the drivers & they plan to discuss the penalty point system at the next drivers briefing with the aim of starting a dialogue to change it.
The GPDA are apparently of the view that if a licence penalty point system is going to be used points should only be handed out for major infractions rather than for things such as track limits & smaller racing incidents. There is also a view that race bans should only be handed out for the most serious offences (As used to be the case) & that getting a race ban for a series of more minor things isn’t fair, isn’t what racing should be about & not what should happen.
Pierre Gasly was telling reporters post race that he didn’t believe Magnussen should have got a penalty at all for the collision they had as it was just a “nothing racing incident”. He apparently wanted to go & see the stewards to tell them he felt the penalty was incorrect but wasn’t allowed to as he wasn’t summoned to see them.
drmouse (@drmouse)
2nd September 2024, 16:45
If this happens, and the FIA decide to only award points for “major” incidents, they may as well just get rid of them. I don’t think anyone has come even close to racking up enough points only for “major” incidents, so they should just be honest and say “we’re scrapping it because the drivers don’t want to be banned”. That’s effectively what they would be doing.
Christopher Rehn (@chrischrill)
3rd September 2024, 8:39
I think awarding a penalty point only for major incidents would make sense, but they should then also reduce the threshold from 12 to 3. If you cause 3 major incidents in one season, race ban.
Any major incident predominantly to blame = 1 penalty point
Any major incident caused with actual malice = 3 penalty points
Any “normal” incident like speeding in the pit lane, gaining an advantage by cutting a corner, or minor collisions like Magnussen-Gasly today = 0 penalty points
drmouse (@drmouse)
4th September 2024, 6:28
So drivers can just keep committing “minor” offences, ruining the races of other drivers who actually follow the rules, and just get the meaningless 5s penalties?
The whole idea of the penalty point system is to stop patterns of bad behaviour. 2-3 serious incidents should definitely be enough to trigger a ban, I agree, but 12 “minor” incidents over the course of a year is indicative of a pattern of bad behaviour which needs to be stopped.
Note that “minor” is purposely in quotes, because they aren’t generally that minor. The incidents which gain penalty points are normally ones which are fairly serious already, generally causing a crash or being lucky not to have.
MichaelN
2nd September 2024, 16:57
The drivers always want ‘no penalties’ when they’re the ones pulling the moves, and then complain of ‘a joke’ when they’re the one’s being disadvantaged. They’re hardly a useful part in any such discussion.
Their view that bans should be for big incidents is a pointless complaint. Race bans are still very much possible for extreme moves (although given prior penalties for some dodgy stuff I can only imagine what kind of horrific move must be pulled to qualify for such a penalty). Either way, the penalty points are simply there to prevent consistent problematic behaviour that, in and of itself, is not worthy of a race ban. It’s also not meant to be a running scorecard of someone’s entire career; hence the 12 month expiration date of a penalty point. And if you asked anyone casually watching F1 who the big troublemakers on the grid are, I bet Magnussen would come up time and again. That’s a big part of why he’s the only one to ever get to 12 points.
Has the system been used consistently and fairly? No, but that’s no reason to scrap it. Rather, it’s a reason to improve the way it works. Perhaps seeing Magnussen’s ban in effect will demonstrate to the stewards at other races that it’s really not that big of a deal, making them less hesitant to fairly attribute penalty points where they would otherwise shy away from using them. This would be a great thing, as the near-certainty that the stewards would hesitate allowed Gasly to continue his antics for far too long.
Dex
2nd September 2024, 16:18
I’d rather ask if he deserves two.
drmouse (@drmouse)
2nd September 2024, 16:25
I strongly agree with the race ban.
That isn’t really because of the incident, or even this particular situation. I agree because the points system had become a joke, and at least this shows that the FIA will follow through.
You just have to look at KMag’s own comments about it. He didn’t think they would ever actually hand out points if it led to a ban, and I doubt most drivers, pundits or fans did either. I’ve lost count of the number of times in these comments sections where it was discussed that the stewards had decided against points because it would lead to a ban, even though similar incidents had attracted points previously.
I still dislike how inconsistent the stewards are on both this and other penalties. But at least this should act as a deterrent in future when we get drivers racking up points.
Neil (@neilosjames)
2nd September 2024, 16:48
I wouldn’t have objected if he’d got one in Miami, and he probably deserved one then, so no complaints.
But then, there’s a temptation to ignore the bigger picture of his points and instead focus on the straw that broke the camel’s back. The Monza penalty would have come across as entirely fair had his poor driving resulted in damage for Gasly, but as it didn’t it almost seems harsh.
Simon
2nd September 2024, 17:04
Question = Does Magnussen deserve his one-race ban?
My answer = Yes
PeteB (@peteb)
2nd September 2024, 17:04
Definitely deserves a ban. If he was on 0 points and did what he did this weekend, there wouldn’t be any debate over it. He’d get 2 points and he wouldn’t care about it. He’s done that enough times that it’s added up and now he’s got a ban…
I don’t personally like the penalty points system but he’s not been given them unfairly compared to other drivers. He’s just done more things to deserve them.
SteveP
2nd September 2024, 18:54
Question = Does Magnussen deserve his one-race ban?
Yes, but even more so the guy(s) that sent him out there to block and interfere in a rule bending/breaking fashion.
Maybe ban Komatsu from the pit lane for 2 – 3 races?
There’s an unpleasant attitude of “points by any means, fair or foul” that seems to have crept into Haas. It needs to be shown the door.
Nikos (@exeviolthor)
2nd September 2024, 19:31
I am of the opinion that race bans should not be based on a point system. They should instead be given when a driver does something really dangerous or unsportsmanlike.
PacificPR (@streydt)
2nd September 2024, 20:19
Guess all those people who agree to this ban better start (or are already) enjoying all those clean DRS passes that having nothing to do with overtaking.. I am puzzled to what the appeal of F1 must be if you think Magnussen deserves a ban after what happened at Monza.
drmouse (@drmouse)
4th September 2024, 6:33
It isn’t about what happened at Monza, it’s the cumulative effect of all the bad behaviour down over the last year.
In the UK, you get points on your license for driving offences. Driving at 33 in a 30 zone will get you some points. That itself is not worthy of a ban, but if that pushes you over the 12 point limit, that’s a different matter. It isn’t that speeding offence which would give you the ban, but a consistent record of bad driving over time without evidence of improvement.
JA
2nd September 2024, 21:13
Disagree. This is an FIA issue more than an actual driver issue. First of FIA is a political organization and doesnt hand out penalties and license points for the same offenses. Its much easier for them to hand it out to low market drivers than the bigger names. Magnussen vs Hulkenberg in Hungary is one of those when looking at the exact same incident between Hamilton and Rosberg. Same goes for Magnussen vs Albon in Jeddah, another similar incident with a top driver went unpunished. Same with the front wing sideboards. Magnussen received three flags for it, no other driver did (though plenty of others had the same type of damage). To me the Albon incident is still Albons fault as he is overtaken, but doesnt yield because of the chance of pushing Magnussen far out to miss the next corner.
Secondly FIA could have fixed this by enforcing drivethroughs instead of time penalties. Then few of the defensive situations would have played out. Overtake across the line and you must yield the position, if not its a drivethrough and if you dont comply DSQ. No license points for dangerous driving unless you rejoin unsafely.
kcrossle (@kcrossle)
3rd September 2024, 3:46
I voted Slightly Agree.
But if it was Verstappen 2021 I would have voted “Strongly Agree” based on his unsportsmanlike conduct, far more flagrant than Magnussen’s.
Addme (@dontme)
3rd September 2024, 7:30
Yes. But…. The points system needs a bit of tweaking.
First of all, it’s incredibly rare that a driver gets a ban, and the one that does doesn’t surprise anybody. He is always fighting with his elbows out.
The system is there to force change in behaviour. And if you keep getting the same penalties every time, you get the biggest penalty. A ban.
Like I said, it’s not a perfect system and we should have a good look at when a penalty points is given. Maybe not for unsafe releases and driving over the line of the pitlane etc.
Kevin C (@kev-f1)
3rd September 2024, 8:59
As much as I think some of Magnussen’s drive is atrocious, having penalty points for leaving the track is crazy and he shouldn’t have received point for that, a time penalty or stop and go -but not points
Captain Pie (@captainpie)
3rd September 2024, 9:26
As mentioned in the article, the answer is consistency.
Whether Magnussen deserves a ban or not is irrelevant, I feel this is only a question because inconsistent applying of the points makes it a question.
Tommy C (@tommy-c)
3rd September 2024, 13:03
I thought he should have had a ban after the race in Saudi Arabia. It was really only downhill from there!
WesselV1
3rd September 2024, 13:19
Yes, even though this weekend’s accident may not have necessitated 2 points.
Furthermore, I view it as a relatively non-artificial way to give substitute drivers a chance to prove themselves. During friday practices or even sprint races there is always a risk of ruining the weekend of the main driver. If the main driver has a ban, then this risk disappears. The substitute, knowing he will get the seat, could be prepared for the job in time. Despite some penalties being a bit over the top, one doesn’t simply collect 12 points. And finally: what is a rule without it being enforced?
Electroball76
5th September 2024, 8:37
There’s an old Italian saying: “You mess up five times, you get a one event ban”
Mayrton
6th September 2024, 7:05
Long overdue.