In the round-up: Helmut Marko claims to have had “inside information” about Honda before Red Bull joined forces with them.
In brief
Marko’s “inside information” led Honda deal
Red Bull sporting advisor Helmut Marko claims to have had “inside information” about the development work Honda was doing on their power units before the team moved from Renault to Honda in 2019.
“We had a deal with Mercedes – a handshake deal with [Nikki] Lauda – which was not supported by Toto, so the deal didn’t happen,” Marko told the Inside Line F1 podcast.
“And then we went to Honda. Honda, at that stage, had failed to be competitive with McLaren. But I had some inside information what they are planning to do, so we said ‘yes, we go ahead, take this risk’, which I believed wasn’t a risk, because I knew how much they spent on dynos. AVL is in Graz and so I knew what they spent. So they were serious about it.
“So then we changed to an engine, which at that moment was, did Alonso say ‘F2 style’ or something like that? So we always took brave decisions. So a little bit ‘no risk, no fun’.”
Williams launch engineering academy
Williams has announced that it is launching a new engineering academy programme to offer selected students support in forging careers in engineering and motorsport.In collaboration with team sponsors Komatsu, the team will offer ten promising students of science, technology, engineering and mathematics the chance to gain support in their studies with internships, apprenticeships, mentoring from Williams engineers and other benefits.
The first group of students selected in 2025 will be chosen from students over 16 who compete in the F1 in Schools world finals in Saudi Arabia in November.
Guenther takes Penske FE seat
DS Penske has confirmed that Maximilian Guenther will join the team for the upcoming Formula E season beginning this December.
Guenther will fill the seat vacated by Stoffel Vandoorne after the most recent season, joining Jean-Eric Vergne. He finished eighth in this year’s championship standings with Maserati, taking a single race win in the Tokyo race in March.
“A very special element for me is to drive for Jay [Penske]’s team again,” said Guenther. “He brought me into the championship when I was 20 years old. I’m proud to be part of the team and excited of what we will build together in the future.”
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Lenovo becomes global partner of Formula 1 in renewed deal (F1)
'As a global partner of Formula 1, Lenovo will continue to provide F1 with state-of-the-art technology devices, solutions and services to support the delivery of grands prix at track and remotely. Under the agreement, Lenovo will serve as the title sponsor for two races per season and Lenovo and Motorola will have increased trackside branding at events.'
What We Learned: The key talking points after Round 11 at Monza (F2)
'What also caught the eye was how much pace Gabriel Bortoleto had compared to the rest as he forced his way through in both races. At times, he was almost pushing his rivals through the corners. So, once he hit the front in the Feature, there was no catching him as he crossed the line 9.4s clear of second-placed Maloney. This result puts him 10.5 points behind Hadjar heading into the final three rounds of the year, meaning the title fight is well and truly on.'
Chip Ganassi Racing confirms IndyCar downsizing, plans Indy Nxt return (Racer)
Team manager Taylor Kiel: ''The biggest thing for us is we have a lot of really good people, and we’re in the midst of a downsize. We’re losing the sports car program with Cadillac, and this charter system is forcing us into three cars, so first and foremost, we’re trying to figure out what to do with our good people.''
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Notable posts from X (formerly Twitter), TikTok and more:
The Big Boss of @MercedesBenz 👊
Ola Källenius joined us in Monza to catch up with the Team and enjoy the Italian GP atmosphere 🙏 pic.twitter.com/Cj2i4VJKty
— Mercedes-AMG PETRONAS F1 Team (@MercedesAMGF1) September 5, 2024
full circle moment today!! 😊 my dad was able to be a racing driver for a day and experience what I do! an emotional day which brought back memories from many years ago where F1 just seemed like an impossible dream. Merci pour tout ‘Pa! 🙏🏼
Thank you to @WinfieldRS for an… pic.twitter.com/KjebXAHdvb
— Esteban Ocon (@OconEsteban) September 4, 2024
Suits you, @FranColapinto 🤍 pic.twitter.com/vaOW8Ram3U
— Williams Racing (@WilliamsRacing) September 5, 2024
Back at base 🤜🤛
Debriefing the last two and looking ahead to the next eight 💪 pic.twitter.com/UUJievs67O
— BWT Alpine F1 Team (@AlpineF1Team) September 5, 2024
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Comment of the day
After our look at the ten drivers who were banned from a race for their driving before Kevin Magnussen, Dex would like to see more heel characters in the sport…
It’s really hard to earn a race ban under current regulations, but even more thanks to different mentality in modern F1 (PR restrictions, corporate climate, higher professionalism etc.; there’s less space for loose cannons). I wouldn’t be surprised if Magnussen, who really worked hard on getting this ban, would be the last one to get it for a long time.
To be frank, I love having ‘bad guys’ in the sport (in this case it’s hyperbole), and F1 really lacks that element that was always part of its DNA. On the other hand, Magnussen’s calculated unsportsmanlike driving at times really wasn’t something I enjoyed seeing. I know why he did it, he thought it was the only way to earn his seat for 2025, to prove how useful he can be in a way most drivers wouldn’t; he really gave it all to help Nico Hulkenberg. He stopped driving like that as soon as he realised that he was out; now he’s less calculated with his tough approach. His usual over-the-top driving, like we saw last time, is just part of his usual mentality. But hey, before criticising, let’s all remember how we used to behave competing in video games for example. His stakes are much higher.
Dex
Happy birthday!
Happy birthday to Baldry 888 and Charlie!
On this day in motorsport
- 60 years ago today Ferrari’s John Surtees moved into championship contention by winning the Italian Grand Prix while points leaders Graham Hill and Jim Clark retired
The Dolphins
6th September 2024, 0:28
So Marko had a birdie at AVL tell him how much Honda spent on engine dynamometers. As I recall Red Bull had poisoned the Renault well to the point that they were no longer even displaying the Renault name anywhere. Furthermore they tested the Honda power unit in the Toro Rosso cars for a season before committing to the Red Bull, that’s how confident they were. A bit of revisionist history and chest thumping from Marko here, none of this sounds like they had some genius plan to get Honda, it was desperation and lucky it worked out for them.
Sumedh
6th September 2024, 4:20
I wouldn’t say it was lucky. It was good business sense from Red Bull.
At the end of 2017, where Mclaren couldn’t even get to the lower end of the points on low engine dependent circuits, it was clear that Honda was not the be-all and end-all of all Mclaren problems.
So for Red Bull, It was a no-brainer to try something different and try it with the junior team. That is just good business sense.
And within 9 races at Toro Rosso, Red Bull had decided to jump ship to Honda.
A decision that had reaped them very good dividends (even if they don’t win any titles this year).
Nick T.
6th September 2024, 6:39
Their Honda engine chassis was much better than the one they shoe horned the Renault into. However, we can’t forget it was McLaren’s packaging designs that made it so much harder for Honda to fix the problems they had in the first place. Honda had told them what they wanted would make it much harder to produce a competitive engine.
MacLeod (@macleod)
6th September 2024, 8:01
Red Bull decided to build the chassis around the engine releasing Honda some terrible packaging designs.
We saw when Red Bull, Renault and McLaren all used the Renault engine who had the best Chassis and how often the Renault engine failed.
Red Bull’s problem was the engine as Renault refused to improve parts of it who failed a lot. It was clear (to everyone) Renault didn’t want invest in that engine anymore which we see right now.
That the reason they dropped it and went for Mercedes which was refused ….
The Dolphins
6th September 2024, 13:59
Exactly, it’s only in Marko’s version of events where Red Bull were cunning in choosing Honda due to some insider information. Truth is their options were exhausted and Honda was their lifeboat.
I would love to know more some day about what actually happened to the Red Bull-Honda partnership, why Honda decided it would pull out then change their mind only to sign with Aston Martin…
Nick T.
6th September 2024, 19:06
Well, RBR had the best chassis on the grid. It also happened to be designed around the Renault PU as was the Renault.
Johns
6th September 2024, 19:59
Lets not forget, Red Bull had some premier engine designers at their disposal to help improve the Honda by giving Honda some more ideas, and help integrate it into their chassis.
pcxmac (@pcxmac)
7th September 2024, 1:28
renault are garbage. they have been since the beginning of the hybrid era when they were charging the most for the weakest pu on the grid. that whole outfit deserves to burn for ripping rbr and others off.
DB-C90 (@dbradock)
6th September 2024, 0:51
Are Marko and Bernie related. Both seem to come up with some sort of outrageous comment whenever things are a bit slow.
Let’s face it, they had no choice but to look for a PU supplier that was prepared to invest in development as compared to their supplier at the time that was not, and continues not to be, interested in improving their PU.
Given that the other two, Ferrari and Mercedes were reluctant to supply a team that in all likelihood would beat them, they really only had one choice.
Cameron
6th September 2024, 22:31
I think they’re both just really, really old and are under the mistaken impression that anyone (who isn’t paid to) takes them seriously.
Derek Edwards
6th September 2024, 1:06
Am I missing something here?
Crawliin-from-the-wreckage- Special Unhinged Edition (@davedai)
6th September 2024, 1:50
Yep
A disreputable, dishonest, or unscrupulous person, bad guy etc.
Common in US movies TV in 50’s @ 60’s.
Also part of apology “I was a real heel.,.’
Am I really this old to remember this stuff? Good grief I am.
Nick T.
6th September 2024, 6:40
I am sure he didn’t mean for you to take it quite that literally.
Jere (@jerejj)
6th September 2024, 5:32
Well, Toro Rosso was Honda-powered in 2018, which helped since they were effectively a test bench for Red Bull to decide what to do with their main team.
Lenovo already appears in trackside advertisements on every round & has also been a title sponsor for a few GPs, most recently the Chinese GP.
COTD: While the video game reference is valid, another important factor is that no one can be hurt in the virtual world nor will car damage be inconvenient.
Nick T.
6th September 2024, 6:34
I am really surprised F1 teams don’t do what Williams are more often. I’m even more surprised that they don’t have engineering talent scout whose sole job is combing universities and other fields for a diamond in the rough since a generational designer is so much more important than a great driver.
Nick T.
6th September 2024, 6:35
scouts*
MichaelN
6th September 2024, 9:37
Yeah, such a “risk” to have a second set of cars Red Bull can use as a testing outfit for an entire year with, as the now departed ‘team principal’ of that testing outfit said, absolutely no regard to the results or amount of engine-changing penalties incurred.
Changing engine supplier is always a challenge, but Red Bull had by far the easiest of all the possible options.
notagrumpyfan
6th September 2024, 11:08
Wouldn’t it be ‘easier’ and cheaper to take a Mercedes PU (if possible) given the testing done by Mercedes and other teams.
SteveP
6th September 2024, 12:19
What MichaelM meant, I’m sure, is that RBR used Torro Rosso/Alpha Tauri/VCARB as a live track test bed for the developing Honda PU.
Honda were supplying different developments of the PU on a pretty much weekly basis to track test the PU. They took grid penalties each time, but no one cared as it was all a barely legal method of rapid development test of the PU by the junior team to ready a better spec engine for RBR the following season.
As to going with Mercedes, well RBR were already labelled as a major competitor, why would Mercedes supply that competitor? Enforced supply then? Well…
Part of the force majeure PU supply regulation(s) are two critical items:
1. The PU manufacturer with the least customers is the designated supplier (whether they like it or not)
2. No PU manufacturer shall supply more than three customers (to stop/restrain undue influence on other teams)
Back then, Merc were never in any danger of being tagged as the low man on the PU totem, Renault were, and that was the PU that RBR had been slagging off.
For anyone looking today, Mercedes are maxed out on customers; Aston Martin are moving to Honda PU in 2026 which frees up a slot, but Alpine are negotiating to use that.
MichaelN
6th September 2024, 12:56
Mercedes was never a serious option. There’s no way Wolff was or is going to approve supplying Horner any engines. Neither was Ferrari, so for Red Bull it was sticking with Renault or Honda. They’re not presenting this as some sort of brave choice, but they really didn’t have any choice at all.
And as SteveP notes, Red Bull has two extra cars with which they were not even trying to be competitive, instead using the season as one long test session while incurring plenty of penalties to fast-track new engine developments.
If Red Bull wanted to take a risk on Marko’s supposed great insight, they would have put that Honda in their first set of cars. But they didn’t. Of course they didn’t. They were happy enough to sacrifice an entire season to test the Honda engine in a way that no other manufacturer has been able to in this V6 era. That’s not a risk, that’s pretty close to being an outright abuse of their privilege.
Tunde
7th September 2024, 8:13
@SteveP and @MichaelN, thank you…for saying it the way it was then, not some revisionist review or a tale painted with a brush of selective amnesia
Sonny Crockett (@sonnycrockett)
6th September 2024, 13:33
I wonder whether McLaren are now scrutinising their contract with Honda to see whether there’s been a breach?!
Edvaldo
6th September 2024, 13:57
Huge risk sacrificing Gasly and Hartley in a period when the engine was still not up to par!
What an act of courage! lol
A real risk would be putting it straight in the main team’s car and facing the possibility of upsetting the talent, which happened at McLaren, as they had no team to do the heavy lifting for them.