McLaren Racing CEO Zak Brown says he will raise questions over the manner in which Lando Norris lost the bonus point for fastest lap to a driver from Red Bull’s second Formula 1 team.
Daniel Ricciardo, participating in what is understood to be his final race for Red Bull’s junior team RB, was told to pit from 18th place, three laps from the end of the race, to fit a set of soft tyres, despite not being in a position to score the bonus point himself. By beating Norris’ time, Ricciardo took the bonus point off the McLaren driver.Norris’ loss of the point has potentially significant implications as he closes on championship leader Max Verstappen. It has put Verstappen in a position where he could win the title by finishing second to Norris in all the remaining races, which was not previously the case.
RB team principal Laurent Mekies said Ricciardo was given the chance to set the fastest lap because “this may have been Daniel’s last race.” Ricciardo said he did it “with a little bit of Red Bull in mind” and “maybe just to have one last crack at doing a fast one.”
However Brown, who has previously said F1 should prevent multiple teams from having the same owner, indicated his suspicions over Ricciardo’s fastest lap bid.
“That’s a nice A/B-team sporting thing that I didn’t think was allowed,” he told SiriusXM. “But that’s not the first time we’ve seen it, probably won’t be the last.”
The McLaren team boss said he’ll “certainly ask some questions” over the situation. “It’s something I’ve spoken about in the past and I think it illustrates that it does happen, because I think you wouldn’t have made that pit stop to go for that.
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“It’s not going to get anyone a point, so I think it does illustrate the issue around that topic.”
Brown previously raised concerns over “questionable” incidents involving so-called B-teams as long ago as 2018, when he urged F1’s owner Liberty Media to make changes “for the health of the sport.”
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Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
23rd September 2024, 7:24
Quick solution. Make the fastest lap go to whoever lapped fastest among the top ten finishers.
Or better still just drop that damn fastest lap point thing. It’s a horrible, awful, meaningless gimmick.
Asd
23rd September 2024, 8:34
Exactly, simple as that! The rule is nonsensically inconsistent – drivers outside top-10 can’t score the point (for obvious reasons), yet they still can win the fastest lap honors and influence that extra point assignment and take it away from the fastest top-10 driver.
It’s as absurd as if in a sports competition, say running, a 20 year old competitor couldn’t win a U-18 race, but actually he still could compete in tha race and win it, thus taking the win away from a 17 year old kid by so that no-one is recognized as the winner.
Keith Campbell (@keithedin)
23rd September 2024, 8:58
I’ve raised this point yesterday, but your analogy is actually pretty on point.
Avro Anson (@avroanson)
23rd September 2024, 9:30
I think your analogy is a bit back-to-front. The true analogy would be a 17 year old kid competing against adults, winning the race but not getting the prize.
I see no reason why the bottom 10 drivers can’t get the point for FLAP. If they’re fast enough then they’ve earned the point, and in fact it might encourage some extra competitive driving among the lower echelon.
Keith Campbell (@keithedin)
23rd September 2024, 9:54
@avroanson What if the lower teams who are unlikely to be able to score a point in the race just save all their soft tyres and do qualifying simulation runs during the Grand Prix to aim for the fastest lap point which they are more likely to achieve? Even if you said they have to be classified at the end of the race, they could still do virtually the same and as long as they complete 90% of the laps I think it is, they will still be classified.
Matthijs (@matthijs)
23rd September 2024, 10:21
Indeed, that is exactly the reason. The irony is that this proves that the FLAP point is obsolete, since it says very little about the actual speed of the FLAP driver.
Coventry Climax
23rd September 2024, 10:34
And I see no reason whatsoever as to why there should be a point awarded to something that already is the essence of racing anyway.
It’s the order under the finish flag that should give you points, not prettiest tutu or whatever.
Stoo (@stewart51)
27th September 2024, 15:50
Except that the driver in last place has nothing to lose by the time the last couple of laps of the day, to make a pitstop and put in a flyer while the car is clad in fresh rubber and as light as a feather, as opposed to the guy/girl in the top ten who would lose up to five places by making a last ditch pitstop ….. just to clinch one point ?
That’s why when Magnussen is in the last ten he usually gives it the beans to get the honour of the F-Lap now and then.
Hotbottoms (@hotbottoms)
23rd September 2024, 10:25
@fer-no65
This solution doesn’t address the B-team problem, it only prevents benefitting from the B-team in one specific situation.
Regarding fastest lap scenarios: let’s assume, for example, that Ricciardo was running 7th in the Grand Prix, and stopping for new tyres to get the fastest lap would drop him to 10th. Ricciardo and his team would lose points, but securing the fastest lap could still benefit the A-team.
Furthermore, the fastest lap is just one example of how B-teams can benefit the A-team. There are many other situations where this could happen, such as not defending against A-team drivers, defending more aggressively than necessary against the A-team’s rivals, or aborting laps in qualifying when it benefits the A-team. The possibilities are nearly endless if the teams get creative.
The only solution to eliminate the B-team problem is to get rid of B-teams altogether.
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
23rd September 2024, 11:00
I understand that but the B team discussion is longer and much more complicated. This is a quick fix that’d prevent any fool play while that discussion takes place.
PB
23rd September 2024, 13:23
Spot on.
AlanD
23rd September 2024, 13:48
I veery much agree that it is an awful gimmick which bears no relation to who built the fastest car or drove the fastest race. It would make more sense to award the bonus point for pole position where you really are competing to set the fastest lap, not that I am advocating that.
BasCB (@bascb)
23rd September 2024, 14:48
I’m all for stopping the point for FLAP yes. I really don’t see it adds anything positive to the championship.
Osnola
23rd September 2024, 7:33
While zak has a point ( for the first time) he should focus on the luck they had gifted a win with an illegal wing.
Oople
23rd September 2024, 7:41
If it was illegal, the car wouldn’t have been given permission to race.
Therefore the wing is legal.
Hope this helps.
Avto
23rd September 2024, 10:37
So you’re saying Ferrari 2019 engines were legal?
Optimaximal (@optimaximal)
24th September 2024, 11:26
We have no idea – no details were released. All the race results were also certified…
Stevan Vasiljević
24th September 2024, 13:04
Yes it was, by FIA metric.
SteveP
25th September 2024, 8:03
As one item of many, they were sending interference pulses blocking the fuel flow sensor data at critical times, so the FIA had no valid data regarding their fuel flow.
As I’ve said before, Ferrari have shown some outstanding ingenuity in the past, which was aimed at hiding illegal setups. The 2019 stuff was just the tip of the iceberg.
If they had applied that same talent to legal development, I suspect they would have had a dominant streak covering the last 20 years or more. Even having a soft spot for Ferrari, I’m not sure how I feel about that.
Matthijs (@matthijs)
23rd September 2024, 8:42
No, Zak just lost the point to Ricciardo (pun intended)
Grapmg
23rd September 2024, 7:41
Norris is robbed! Didn’t hear Zak when Alonso did the same to Max in Austria. Riccardo evens the score 1-1.
Bob
23rd September 2024, 7:58
Mclaren own Aston Martin? since when? thought stroll owned it….
Apples and oranges
RUTH222
23rd September 2024, 8:04
You are missing the point. Alonso would have taken fastest lap regardless of who had it at that moment.
Ricciardo would not have taken the fastest lap had it been in the hands of Verstappen. That is the difference.
MacLeod (@macleod)
23rd September 2024, 8:45
Or Daniel wanted bring him some views on him as it was probaly his last race …
As i said before the other top teams could have their own teams but they didn’t otherwise we would have 13 teams right now.
MichaelN
23rd September 2024, 9:22
Nobody cares about the fastest lap in this era of tyre nursing other than for the point.
Ricciardo being told to snatch it from Norris was apparently the final moment of his career. If this turns out to have been his last race, it couldn’t have been handled with less grace and class. Not surprising given the people that run Red Bull, but still unfortunate.
grapmg
23rd September 2024, 10:10
You assume that Ricciardo would not have done it if the FL if it was in the hands of Max but we don’t know that. There is no difference between Alonso and Ricciardo’s actions regarding the FL. These accusations sound a bit pathetic also because Red Bull could have used Perez to take that fastest lap.
Edvaldo
23rd September 2024, 14:34
So, do you really think he would take the point off Max? Are you this naive?
FL laps don’t mean anything these days if you’re not getting the 1 point. If it did, then you would see the backmarkers doing it all the time, and they never do.
What’s special about doing a lap 3 seconds slower than your already slow qualy lap the day before when nobody else is even attempting to do it?
It boggles me to see people still thinking they were making some kind of homage to him. “Yeah, dude, we’re kicking you out but we’re gonna give you one last gift” that just coincidentally happens to play in the main team’s interest. lol. yeah….right…
Coventry Climax
23rd September 2024, 10:42
Ruth222, you don’t know what Ricciardo would have done if Verstappen had held FL. You’re speculating.
Also, we talking parallel universes here? Had MV held fastest lap, it would have been another race and another reality, where Ricciardo might have been the uncontended top driver for McLaren, or already crashed out in his Haas, on a first lap incident with Hamilton in a Red Bull.
sam
23rd September 2024, 17:08
Its not up to Danny Ric its up to the team. You know, the one also owned by red bull
Stoo (@stewart51)
27th September 2024, 15:53
+1
AlphaSpookster
23rd September 2024, 9:14
Has Zak Brown forgotten how Oscar got the fastest lap in Monza last year, thus taking a point off someone else.
N
23rd September 2024, 11:00
Piastry is a McLaren driver. His team can tell him to go for fastest lap. Zak Brown cannot order a driver from another team to go for fastest lap to help his team.
Mayrton
23rd September 2024, 9:17
Seems fair enough. Brown should rather look inwards to the mistakes they made earlier in the season highly disadvantaging Lando. Far more significant than this one point. What a joke.
w0o0dy
23rd September 2024, 9:46
If Zak Brown ever wants to say anything about ethics maybe he should start with respecting driver contracts? And if he feels running 2 teams in F1 is a bad thing he should help Andretti enter F1… Meanwhile they are operating wings that are deemed legal in writing only but not in Spirit of the rules because the FIA fully supports McLaren in their fight against RedBull… So maybe not try and play the morals card… Or would he rather have this one point and his team DQ because of using wings that are against the spirit of the rules?
Optimaximal (@optimaximal)
24th September 2024, 11:30
I’m not sure how long you’ve been watching the support, but Red Bull have been flouting the spirit of the regulations regarding flexible bodywork since 2010!
SteveP
25th September 2024, 8:13
Wrong target with that remark. Piastri had no contract, as per the evidence to the contract arbitration board, Alpine upper management had been stringing him along for over 10 months. A promised contract (October IIRC) still hadn’t been written out and handed over for consideration when he signed with McLaren in June.
Alpine were the bad guys there.
Over the pond, it was a driver who reneged on a signed contract and then Zak started the court proceedings.
notagrumpyfan
23rd September 2024, 10:02
Will Zak also raise questions over Ricciardo being voted Driver of the Day?
That one was even more suspicious than the FLAP.
N
23rd September 2024, 11:03
Driver of the Day is a popularity contest and has no baring on the championship
Fastest lap is something that directly influences the championship.
notagrumpyfan
23rd September 2024, 12:31
I assumed it was quite obvious that mine was a tongue-in-cheek remark.
PlosslF1 (@f1-ploss)
23rd September 2024, 10:12
If I was Zak I would be more concerned about Max and his tail gunners becoming Torpedoes in the final few races if the points are really close ;-)
Fred Fedurch
23rd September 2024, 11:48
Kvyat is racing in WEC.
amped
23rd September 2024, 10:30
Brown is a hypocrite snake. He is only too happy to do Wolff’s bidding. He makes it hard to be a McLaren fan at times.
It is obvious that if the situation was flipped between Mercedes & McLaren, Brown would be only too happy for McLaren to act as the Mercedes B Team.
Nick T.
23rd September 2024, 10:36
Yup. Boo hoo, you Zak of…delightful sugar.
MichaelN
23rd September 2024, 11:13
But in 2021, the last time Mercedes was competitive and where this scenario might have mattered, McLaren scored just two fastest laps, and both were in races they won (Italy) or might well have won (Russia). So they were properly competitive. They never resorted to some late-race stop for the fastest lap whilst down in 18th.
Does McLaren, as other customers, often support their engine supplier in political matters? Sure, but that’s a much bigger issue. It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out in 2026, when Mercedes will supply almost half the grid if Alpine joins the list as well.
Fred Fedurch
23rd September 2024, 11:55
I guess everyone is forgetting the GOAT’s “Well, I AM driving a Mercedes” quote when asked about getting involved/staying out of the way in the title fight prior to the finale in 2021 while driving for Williams.
SteveP
25th September 2024, 8:45
Mercedes is currently maxed out on the number of teams they can supply within the limit of the regulations.
Aston Martin are jumping ship to Honda which leaves a spare slot and Alpine would take them back up to the max of three.
That number of teams supplied by Mercedes has been the same for a number of years and if Alpine joins the list while AM leave, then only the names on the list have changed.
David (@davidjwest)
23rd September 2024, 10:46
F1 is dodgy.
PeteB (@peteb)
23rd September 2024, 11:04
The fastest lap point is a good idea on paper but surely we’ve already seen enough to know it doesn’t work in reality. Why give someone a point for pitting late in the race?
David BR (@david-br)
23rd September 2024, 12:16
Ricciardo winning fastest lap for himself is understandable, but doing it to assist the Red Bull senior team is indefensible. And essentially he, Horner and Verstappen admitted that was what happened. It doesn’t need communication during the race. As soon as Ricciardo was called in, he obviously knew why and what was expected.
Red Bull have a clear unfair advantage that costs other teams points and ultimately perhaps championship positions and money. It’s a clear breach of sporting codes and ethics. Trying to defend it by pretending it didn’t happen is just insulting everyone’s intelligence.
Does it matter? One point. Arguably probably not. The principle? It should. But what will really have an impact is a repeat. Imagine if this happens 3 or 4 times over the remainder of the season. Which is quite feasible: Norris has the fastest car and will have chances for FLAP. The Red Bull B-team can always pit a driver to take away that point. It’s hypothetical at this point but it’s definitely not a non-issue.
Mayrton
24th September 2024, 6:53
With RedBull at least it is transparent. Mercedes customer teams back then were way more sneaky.
SteveP
25th September 2024, 17:31
Even Horner is bright enough to realise that denial would just dig him a deeper hole.
Usual innuendo and mud slinging.
SteveP
25th September 2024, 17:33
BTW.
If Norris misses out on the WDC by just one point, the first place he needs to look for someone to blame is the nearest mirror.
David BR (@david-br)
23rd September 2024, 12:18
Reading the posts, just endless deflections. They’re not serious points, just ways to dodge the issue.
rprp
23rd September 2024, 12:32
Norris had enough pace to open a pit stop window to Verstappen and go for his own FL (he was 29 seconds ahead, and pulling away, before easing off and ending up 20s ahead). McLaren could’ve put this to bed, albeit with an element of risk. While I agree that the potential for B-team influence is there and potentially unfair, they didn’t value that point enough during the race to cover that off.
David BR (@david-br)
23rd September 2024, 12:44
That makes no sense. You’ve said yourself it was a risk and that’s precisely what McLaren decided, too much risk to cover off the potential loss of the extra point (they could effectively lose 14 points in a 7 point swing to Max, or worse). In making that calculation, it would have been irrelevant to them who might pick up that point.
rprp
23rd September 2024, 14:34
It might make sense at the end of the season if Norris misses out by a point.
David BR (@david-br)
23rd September 2024, 16:07
I just meant you yourself there was an element of risk. If keeping Verstappen behind after a pit stop was marginal and/or involved Norris pushing more than he was, then the extra point clearly wasn’t worth risking 14 points.
Besides if McLaren and Norris are worrying about 1 point now, then they’ve no chance of reeling in all the other points Norris needs. They need to be finishing 1-2 as often as possible as their main priority.
rprp
23rd September 2024, 17:40
It’s close enough to be at least thinking about the risk. I didn’t say it was an unnecessary or unreasonable risk. If they’d tried it and it worked and they win the title by a point, it would be a master stroke. If they messed it up, they’d be a laughing stock.
Finishing 1-2 at every race might be their focus, but it is not realistic. It’s not far from being a case where every single point, wherever it comes from, is critical.
David BR (@david-br)
23rd September 2024, 18:01
I just think there are two many counterpoints like Norris and McLaren making lots of mistakes, including Baku qualifying, and why they didn’t prioritize Norris earlier maybe (I get why not but it’s a relevant argument). That said, the fact one team can deliberately work to favour another on the grid should be straight out banned and penalized. I’d be in favour of McLaren/Norris being handed back the point on principle given it was effectively admitted by Ricciardo that it was done to assist Verstappen and the Red Bull senior team.
Patrick (@paeschli)
23rd September 2024, 12:50
Can’t wait to hear back from Brown when he hears about the 7 points Piastri took from Norris in Hungary
David BR (@david-br)
23rd September 2024, 12:53
@paeschli That made me laugh. Probably the best pushback to Zak Brown on this issue.
Phil Norman (@phil-f1-21)
23rd September 2024, 13:15
I think all of this pushback by McLaren and people running this site even, is a little pathetic. I mean it was Daniel’s last race and he was requested, he did not ask, to do a pit stop and go for the fastest lap. What was he going to do? Knowing this might well be the last time he ever drives an F1 car. Was he really going to refuse? To say no, that’s unethical?
Now maybe RB should not have asked him to do this. But in doing so it had a dual function i.e. to give Daniel and bit of glory in this, his final race as well as taking the extra point off of Lando. We don’t know if this coordinated the lead Red Bull team.
I think maybe Mr Brown should perhaps concentrate more on McLaren’s own team management and decisions rather than hurrying to point the finger at Red Bull. I mean, I doubt very much if the race for the WDC is going to come down to this one point for fastest lap. Maybe other poor decisions might be more relevant?
N
23rd September 2024, 15:59
“I think all of this pushback by McLaren and people running this site even, is a little pathetic. I mean it was Daniel’s last race and he was requested, he did not ask, to do a pit stop and go for the fastest lap. What was he going to do? Knowing this might well be the last time he ever drives an F1 car. Was he really going to refuse? To say no, that’s unethical?”
Erm, that’s exactly why people have taken issue over this, most people understand this was not Riccardo wanting fastest lap, but rather RB using one of their drivers to take points off a rival, to benefit the company that is suppose to have nothing to do with them, in a sporting sense.
“We don’t know if this coordinated the lead Red Bull team.”
Of course this was Redbull A telling Redbull B what to do, you’d have to be incredibly naive to think this isn’t Redbull taking points off McLaren to help…erm, Redbull.
Phil Norman (@phil-f1-21)
23rd September 2024, 17:21
Yes. I take your point. But there certainly have been some comments on this in the last 24 hours which have pointed the finger to some degree at Daniel. I am not sure why. And the other point is that it’s highly unlikely to matter in the scheme of things. Is Lando going to win or lose by one point? I suppose it’s possible.
Jere (@jerejj)
23rd September 2024, 13:59
If only they would’ve maximized all available points for Lando & oppositely Lando himself on occasions, the situation would look different, with or without this particular fastest lap point.
Simon
23rd September 2024, 17:08
Can’t be bothered to translate / deconstruct this whataboutery…
CarWars (@maxv)
23rd September 2024, 17:35
Because its pretty important, the already 10 points ? lost in no team orders..
SteveP
25th September 2024, 17:36
If only.
Is there no other way you can express your love for Jere?
Edvaldo
23rd September 2024, 14:36
I hope it’s the first push for this team to be sold for good.
Velocityboy (@velocityboy)
23rd September 2024, 16:10
In 2021 Yuki said he’d make a point of slowing Hamilton if he had the chance in order to help Max. That’s when the B-team conversation should have taken place.
StefMeister (@stefmeister)
23rd September 2024, 16:34
I still don’t think the fastest lap should award a point as it’s a completely irrelevant stat that I still just don’t think is something that is worthy of an extra point given how as we have seen many times over the years it’s more about who has a big enough gap behind to be able to pit for fresh tyres with 2-3 laps to go rather than who actually had the fastest car on the day.
In relation to Zak’s point, This sort of thing with team mates or ‘B Teams’ been used in this way was something I raised as a potential issue when they first introduced it.
CarWars (@maxv)
23rd September 2024, 17:34
Wat een Zak
tielemst
24th September 2024, 10:54
That’s community service for you!