Safety improvements since Bianchi tragedy ‘gives us peace’ says family

24 comments on “Safety improvements since Bianchi tragedy ‘gives us peace’ says family”

1. 

   Jere (@jerejj)
   12th October 2024, 5:31

   The Safety Car hasn’t been called often anymore & not once since the Canadian GP, although the ”unthinkable to see it exposed before” part about red-flagging has been accurate generally, which is what I’ve complained about, but fortunately, even red-flagging hasn’t happened once since the Monaco GP.

   A South Korea return has seemed decently viable for a little while & I’m positive it’ll happen eventually, but whether it’d be ready for 2026 already is another matter.
   1. 

      Jere (@jerejj)
      12th October 2024, 11:48

      I could’ve been more precise by referring to red-flagging in racing conditions as practice & qualifying sessions have had suspensions post-Monaco GP, but I think the point was clear either way.
   2. 

      uzsjgb (@uzsjgb)
      12th October 2024, 12:11

      Are you sad that we haven’t seen any deaths since Bianchi? I assume your complaints about increased safety are fuelled by this. Otherwise why would anybody complain about more safety?
      1. 

         Esploratore (@esploratore1)
         12th October 2024, 13:41

         This is a clear example of putting words into other people’s mouth: who really wants more deaths in f1?

         However the overuse of red flags has honestly been comical, as well as the barely racing in wet conditions.

         Before bianchi, the only 2 drivers who died in the preceding 30 years did so in the dry, so why being so risk-averse in the wet?

         And it’s not like bianchi died because of the wet conditions, in an alternate universe where they let the other crashed car stay there, bianchi would come out alive, the only reason he died is there was a tractor inside the barriers, something people like brundle warned about 20 years before already at the same track and similar or even wetter conditions.
         1. 

            Red Andy (@red-andy)
            12th October 2024, 15:29

            The increased use of red flag periods is probably preferable to spending many, many laps under the safety car, as sometimes happened in the past, e.g. USA 2004 and Fuji 2007 (although, with hindsight, if the entirety of the latter had been run under SC it might have been an interesting historical anomaly, especially as it would have given a home win to a Japanese driver).
      2. 

         Esploratore (@esploratore1)
         12th October 2024, 13:42

         In short, safety is fine; killing racing to save no extra lives is not, halo for example with hindsight was a great addition.
      3. 

         Jere (@jerejj)
         12th October 2024, 17:17

         @uzsjgb Not at all what I meant, so purely you assuming & twisting my point into something else.
         Most race suspensions since Charlie Whiting’s untimely death were simply overkill, considering many similar situations have been entirely safely manageable under SC conditions in the past, so zero justification to suddenly start treating them differently.

         @red-andy Spot on everything.

         @red-andy Not when the lap amount behind SC would be something from 5-10 at maximum, especially early on when the chance of ending under neutralized conditions is 0 anyway, so SC is always enough if track isn’t literally obstructed.
         Btw, if the 2007 Japanese GP ran entirely behind SC, Hamilton would’ve won it as he started from pole position.
         1. 

            Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
            12th October 2024, 19:41

            The reason so much of the 2007 Fuji GP was behind the Safety Car was because the helicopter was initially unable to take off, then as the storm moved was unable to land at the hospital.

            Gary Hartstein, according to his blog, specifically told Bernie Ecclestone that if he ran under anything less than a full Safety Car before the helicopter could safely take off and land, Bernie would be required to take full personal responsibility for any and all ensuing insurance claims.

            The FIA regulations technically didn’t (and don’t) allow that venue to start a race at all without the helicopter, due to the distance to the hospital by road being too long – even running under Safety Car was a case of bending the rules in the hope that some water would be cleared by the time racing could start, thus increasing safety).

            Bernie has never been one to part with his money easily, and respected the position of F1 Medical Officer a lot (he’d helped get it established back in 1978).
            1. 

               Jere (@jerejj)
               13th October 2024, 9:44

               @alianora-la-canta I’d never realized such side story aspects behind the 2007 race.
         2. 

            Red Andy (@red-andy)
            12th October 2024, 23:14

            If the Fuji GP had gone the distance behind the Safety Car, all drivers would have had to refuel; Sakon Yamamoto was the first to stop and fuel to the finish, and would have won. Not bad for a backmarker team who also led the German GP that year due to an excellent strategy call.
            1. 

               Jere (@jerejj)
               13th October 2024, 9:44

               @red-andy I simply forgot the refuelling aspect for a bit, which thus made me think everyone would’ve finished in their starting positions automatically, so I finally get what you originally meant.
            2. 

               Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
               17th October 2024, 21:51

               Spyker (the backmarker team) scored a point that race (via Adrian Sutil) due to a combination of good strategy and being better at not hitting things than some of the drivers ahead.
      4. 

         Nick T.
         13th October 2024, 18:04

         Holy cow, uzbfjdb, I thought you were Simon when I first read your blathering post.
2. 

   notagrumpyfan
   12th October 2024, 7:54

   Now in Formula 1 the Safety Car is called much more, after the death of my son the Virtual Safety Car was also introduced and often the red flag is given for situations in which it would have been unthinkable to see it exposed before. Furthermore, the halo was introduced on the cars, a protection that has already saved several lives, I am sure.

   The VSC has been introduced after this tragic incident, but a similar feature existed before: double waved yellow!
   The problem was that nobody heeded those flags. But rather than blaming the drivers, it was the FIA who did not define well enough what it meant (‘prepared to stop’ I believe it said. In how many meters?) and certainly did not enforce those rules (enough).
   1. 

      S
      12th October 2024, 8:06

      We can still blame the drivers for ignoring double-yellows, as it is not just their lives in their hands but also those who make the event possible.
      Nobody can decide to slow the car down but the driver – and therefore, it is ultimately entirely their responsibility to do so.

      The FIA was a bit lazy with enforcing safety in the past – or at least, one individual was, and that individual was F1’s race director at the time – but then he did allow himself to become more well known for giving the competitors what they want than actually doing what was best for F1. A negotiator rather than a director.

      Anyway, ‘be prepared to stop’ obviously means ‘be capable of coming to a stop within the distance that the car can stop.’
      The higher the speed and worse the conditions, the longer that distance – and therefore the more the driver needs to slow down.
      Bianchi didn’t allow anywhere near enough time to stop despite knowing there was an incident at that corner as he had already passed it the lap before.
   2. 

      Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
      12th October 2024, 20:28

      Double-waved yellows have several major differences to virtual safety car now, and had even more at the time of Bianchi’s accident.

      a) Double-waved yellows are only applied to the part of the track affected. Virtual Safety Car is applied everywhere. This reduces the risk of people being surprised at what is happening.

      b) VSC communicates more severity than a double-waved yellow flag (and less than a full Safety Car). Having one allows all levels, including double-waved yellow flags, to communicate the degree of danger more accurately.

      c) VSC specifies a speed window, which means it’s possible to tell off drivers for going too slowly, as well as too fast, while also informing drivers what boundaries apply to both states. (This was part of the issue with Japan 2022’s Pierre Gasly situation – he was 9 seconds under delta, which would usually gain an infraction for going too slowly for the delta, but because the wrong delta appeared to have been sent to his car – at least if the FIA report is to be correlated with the FIA race director at that race’s words – he was instead charged with going too fast for the conditions, because the alternative would have been to draw attention to the FIA’s error).

      d) Marshals can issue double-waved yellow flags immediately. Since VSC affects the whole track, it can only be applied by the race director.

      e) There are settlement-based requirements on when double-waved yellow flags are not considered sufficient. One is when heavy machinery is on track. VSC effectively indicates what speed is needed to avoid it. Double-waved yellows rely on professional guesswork.

      Back then, it was worse because:

      f) There was not one single regulation covering the meaning of double-waved yellow flags. A careful parsing of the regulations reveals 5 different, overlapping and under certain circumstances contradictory regulations covering the matter. The three I’d like to draw attention to are:

      1) The one we all know from the International Sporting Code (at the time, this was in Appendix H, Article 2.5.4.1 b) for “slow down and be prepared to stop”.

      2) Sporting Regulations, Article 30.13 (as it was then), which prohibited driving that was unnecessarily slow for the conditions under all circumstances. This means stopping can only be justified under specific circumstances.

      3) A race director instruction from March 2014, never encoded in regulations but enforced like a regulation, which defined the minimum amount to slow down for a yellow flag. 0.2 seconds for each relevant mini-sector for a single flag (still or waved), 0.5 seconds for each relevant mini-sector* for a double-waved flag, both compared to previous best time.

      * – There could be up to 20 mini-sectors on a F1 track, typically 6 or 7 in a sector.

      As far as the legal investigation could ascertain, everyone followed the definition of a double-waved yellow flag as it was at the time (and in fact the Marussias had heeded it more than anyone else). Enforcement would not have helped in that instance because it was physically impossible to break it at that point and besides, the FIA had created something it couldn’t enforce in that form in all circumstances where it allowed racing to occur.

      (Adding a “how many meters” stipulation to how soon someone must be able to stop does not help when there’s a regulation that puts conditions on when stopping is allowed, that on one occasion in 2015 got applied under a red flag. It also assumes that every car has stopping power – long story short, it’s not clear if the Marussia had that stopping power at the time).
3. 

   Jeanrien (@jeanrien)
   12th October 2024, 12:17

   What I don’t get is that we’ve had some good tools introduced with VSC and halo but some are still used below optimal.
   I don’t understand why VSC is not triggered more quickly, as soon as there is major incident and debris on track, the time to assess the situation and decide if it requires SC or red flag. In the worse (or best) case, the situation resolves itself quickly (marshals able to push the car out of the way) and the race can resume within minutes with minor impact on the result.
   1. 

      Esploratore (@esploratore1)
      12th October 2024, 13:45

      Yes, they could trigger VSC more quickly, as it doesn’t neutralise gaps, and then only do so if the situation is bad enough to require those tools.

      Although, depending on where drivers are, VSC for every little accident would give a lot of opportunities for drivers in the right place and time to pit and gain a 10 sec advantage.
   2. 

      Jere (@jerejj)
      12th October 2024, 17:20

      VSC deployment should indeed always be immediate when the situation is very clear from the get-go, i.e., that a driver(s) isn’t going to move anywhere because of visibly broken suspension or something else, which race control can always immediately become aware of through not only the same world feed coverage but also via their many CCTV camera angles, so zero excuse for waiting for the sake of waiting & thus risking further damage or even marshal injury.
   3. 

      Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
      12th October 2024, 20:31

      I think VSC tends to be deployed when heavy machinery is ready to go onto the track, even if it is certain said machine will be needed. I’d prefer if marshals had the protection of VSC for the duration of their intervention if Race Control can see it is inevitable.

      However, sometimes the marshals have to do something (e.g. check if the driver needs medical intervention or is simply upset/furious about being out of the race) before they can be sure on the yellow flags vs VSC vs SC vs red flag situation.
4. 

   Roger Ayles (@roger-ayles)
   12th October 2024, 14:22

   Because of course it’s yet another street circuit because no ‘new’ track is able to be anything else it seems.

   Not as if we have a perfectly good circuit that is sitting idle in South Korea already which is F1 grade & would be able to host a race.

   The final sector of the Korea International Circuit was a bit meh but the rest of the track was good, Had a nice flow to it with some elevation change & with some tweaking to the final sector that could be made more interesting. Remember sector 3 was only designed the way it was as they planned to build a city around it so gave it a bit more of a street track feel compared to the rest of the track & if they are no longer planning the city then it could easily be redesigned to match the more open & flowing feel of the middle sector of the circuit.

   It’s at least better than yet another boring street track.
   1. 

      Roger Ayles (@roger-ayles)
      12th October 2024, 14:26

      For any newer fans who may not be familiar with Korea Internation Circuit here is an onboard lap from the last year it part of the f1 season in 2013.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue6nLde6us4
   2. 

      Jere (@jerejj)
      12th October 2024, 17:18

      I also enjoyed the Yeongam International Circuit back in the day, both driving & racing quality-wise.
5. 

   Asd
   12th October 2024, 21:01

   I’m not a fan of the Valkyrie, but the car has a fantastic sound!

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