Max Verstappen, Red Bull, Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez, 2024

Verstappen unrepentant over penalties but Horner sees F1 in “dangerous territory”

Formula 1

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Max Verstappen was unrepentant over his driving in the Mexican Grand Prix despite picking up two 10-second penalties in the space of four corners.

His Red Bull team principal Christian Horner suggested the two penalties were excessive but also sounded a warning over “divebomb” manoeuvres.

Verstappen was involved in a pair of incidents with Lando Norris on the 10th lap of the race. The stewards ruled Verstappen forced Norris off the track at turn four and left the track and gained an advantage at turn seven.

Norris was also forced off in the second incident, when Verstappen lunged down the inside of him, but the stewards did not hold the Red Bull driver responsible for that, ruling the McLaren went off “incidentally”.

Asked whether there was anything about the two incidents he would do differently in the future, Verstappen said: “Maybe get a drink in the pit stop?

“I mean, the engine was off for 20 seconds, so I had enough time.”

Verstappen largely responded to questions about his incidents by criticising his car’s pace.

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“At the end of the day, if you agree with it or not, it doesn’t matter because the penalties are given,” he told the official F1 channel. “So that is also honestly not my biggest problem of the race.

“My biggest problem was that we just had no pace, just struggling a lot on the tyres. I couldn’t really attack and I couldn’t follow Ferrari and McLaren.”

While Horner argued Verstappen’s penalties were too harsh, he also raised concerns over what he called “divebomb” moves, without specifying which driver he was referring to.

“Max didn’t leave the track at turn four, and then at seven Lando opened the door very late, they both ran off there,” Horner told Sky.

“The problem is I think we’re going to get into very dangerous territory of at what point is a divebomb going to be okay?

“So I think really the FIA and the drivers need to sit down and decide what is acceptable and what isn’t. I thought two 10-seconds was a bit on the hard side today.”

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Asked whether he would speak to Verstappen about his turn seven move, Horner said: “You’ve always got to play to the rules. We’ll look and learn from this.”

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Keith Collantine
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35 comments on “Verstappen unrepentant over penalties but Horner sees F1 in “dangerous territory””

  1. Yes (@come-on-kubica)
    27th October 2024, 22:59

    Not sure what we were expecting from Horner. Known cheater condones cheating.

    1. pot calling the kettle black. funny coming from hornet about entitled max the divebomb diva for so many years talking about definition details.

    2. Don’t have to be horner to think 20 sec was a bit harsh today, and for the record, I thought norris didn’t deserve a penalty in austin, so definitely, by comparison, they’ve been MUCH harsher to verstappen this time than they’ve been in a while.

    3. The word “Irony” is missing from Horner’s dictionary.

  2. “Max didn’t leave the track at turn four, and then at seven Lando opened the door very late, they both ran off there,” Horner told Sky.

    Do you know why Norris ran off there? Because Max pushed him out. Again.
    The way he speaks feels like both made a mistake. This guy is such a joke.

    1. To be fair, you don’t attack your driver publicly. Except Helmut. He didn’t get that memo.

      If Horner really thinks max did a bad thing and he would tell it, the headlines would be a pr nightmare.

      1. @dontme

        If Horner really thinks max did a bad thing and he would tell it, the headlines would be a pr nightmare.

        Call me old fashioned, but why exactly would this be the case. Obviously the manner in which he admits it would have an impact, but in general the PR seems pretty poor when he denies the obvious. In fact I’d argue that the negative elements of his reputation are basically down to this type of approach.

    2. I feel like someone needs to just go to the edge of the track and not go over the white line. If Max collides then he will realize that move isn’t going to fly anymore. Unfortunately Lando can’t afford to take that risk with both titles on the line.

      1. Well, someone did.

  3. Did the rulebook change compared to last week? I mean, we’ve seen exact copies today of what Max did at COTA: targeting Norris his car. He is outright out on taking Lando out as if this is destruction derby. The penalties he received for this today were not excessive. He is lucky he didn’t receive a black flag in my opinion. But how is this a penalty today, while not only a penalty wasn’t given for this last week, but instead it was then given to the driver targeted by this kamikaze driving? What changed? Because it was only yesterday that McLaren’s right of review was turned down.

    I can’t stand this inconsistency.

    1. I think they gave Max an inch last week and he took a mile today. After they’d announced rule changes will be introduced and after the driver discussion and all the media frenzy about the penalty decisions at COTA. So it was kind of a crunch decision: either anything goes or Formula 1 does actually have racing rules that apply to Max Verstappen too.

    2. Different situations.

      Last week, Max was ahead at the apex of the cornered when he defended his position, and Lando was thus not entitled to space on the exit. Lando proceeded to then overtake off track. Thus Lando got a penalty for leaving the track and gaining an advantage – it would have been 10 seconds but was discounted to 5 seconds in acknowledgement of Max also leaving the road.

      This week, Lando was ahead of Max at the apex of turn 4, and was thus entitled to space on the exit. Thus Max got the standard 10 second penalty for forcing a car off the road.

      Then at turn 7/8, Max dive-bombed Lando, failed to make the corner, forced Lando off and earned a 10 second penalty for his efforts. That one is a slam-dunk.

    3. The difference is the stewards were hung today by their ridiculous ruling last week. Norris was ahead at the apex so was entitled to room and Verstappen gave him none. Slam dunk penalty if Verstappen didn’t let Norris through (which he already was). Then the second time he just deliberately passed off track having driven Norris off the road. This was deemed a 10s penalty as the students stipulated Norris would have got last week if it wasn’t for the mitigating factor he was pushed wide. Given the ruling last week and their refusal to look at it they effectively set themselves and Verstappen up for today. I actually think Norris setup Verstappen for that to happen today on the first incident as he knew what he’d do.

    4. The rules are the same. If people take some time to read and understand the rules you will see the Stewards made the right call (again). It’s their job and they have all the data and different video angles. From the outside these incident might look the same and we as fans will complain but in most cases the stewards just follow the rules and make an objective judgement.

  4. Hmm. From Horner that’s virtually a condemnation of his driver. The divebombing is clearly referring to MV and ‘a bit harsh’ and ‘we’ll learn’ are equally placing the blame on his own driver. Interesting. Either he thinks it’s simply indefensible (but he’s defended worse) or there’s a rift opening.

    1. Meh, he’s not getting rid of perez, verstappen is still performing very well, see how much better he is at recovering in a race like this, I see no reason why red bull would want a different driver than verstappen; if anything verstappen might want to go somewhere if he’s unconvinced by red bull without newey.

      1. Let’s see if Lando wins 2 in a row and max has a dnf or pit start… At moment, max isn’t racing but messing lando’s races to keep the gap safer. Ferrari arent that much faster, in fact mclaren are still better long runs, but max is messing with lando doing some of his regular dirty driving… Max is definitely not performing, his car is terrible and he is super annoyed and frustrated to not be able to race as he enjoyed before car had some banned parts removed, he is just doing enough to mess Lando’s races to cover himself.

  5. Member when Schumacher got thrown out of the Championship for turning in on his opponent once?

    1. @mrboerns Was a different situation as it was Michael intentionally turning into his championship rival in the last race with the aim of intentionally taking him out of the race in order to win the championship.

      What we saw last weekend & this was just very hard & aggressive racing.

      I was watching the 1990 Mexican GP last night & at one point Gerhard Berger dive-bombed up the inside of Nigel Mansell at Turn 1 coming from miles back with both front tires locked up & 2 wheels over the kerbs & with a bit of contact that pushed Nigel wide.

      Was just seen as a very aggressive overtaking move but reat racing with no penalties awarded and no whining from drivers or fans.

      That same thing today woudl have fans whining non stop & probably result in a penalty because racing isn’t allowed now and the show that used to be a sport has become an over regulated mess where hard, aggressive racing is no longer allowed.

      I doubt even Villeneuve/Arnox from Dijon 1979 woudl be tolerated today.

      shame really.

      1. What we saw last weekend & this was just very hard & aggressive racing.

        It’s not allowed to crowd someone off. No ifs or buts or talks about apex or racing lines. Not allowed. In fact, it’s “strictly” not allowed – one of the only things in all the FIA regulations to have that qualifier.

      2. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
        28th October 2024, 0:05

        What we saw last weekend & this was just very hard & aggressive racing.

        It’s not racing – please do not apply the word racing to Max Verstappen. Alonso 2021 Hungary defending against Lewis – racing.

        Hamilton overtaking a train of DRS cars trying to eke out 1/10th of a second to come close and put the driver under pressure, racing.

        This is not racing…

        1. Spot on, Alonso as much as he is annoying sometimes, he is fair and keeps racing fair at the limit. Max doesn’t know limits as he was left spoiled and entitled for so long, he can’t differentiate meaningful racing from demolition derby.

  6. Does anyone care what verstappen or Horner have to say anymore? It’s nothing new but they act like children and then sulk about it, I don’t any weight to their words

    1. Stella is correct. The FIA should have punished Max very severely early on in his career and especially in 2021. The FIA has allowed this to escalate out of control. Remember when Max was allowed to move under braking? Yeah Kimi and Seb remember those days too.

  7. It’s about time Max received a logical penalty. Should not have been a difficult decision. He’s a brash egomaniac who is an excellent racer with a unforgiving attitude. Let’s just race……

  8. Of course, Max would blame the car pace instead, but Horner should definitely know better the true reason for Lando leaving the track at T4 & that he didn’t leave a door open for T8, but Max simply chose to deliberate force him off at all costs in a clear-cut red mist moment.

    1. I’d argue that the car, with a driver like verstappen, had enough pace to end up 4th without aggressive moves on norris that ended up with big penalties, as I don’t see how on earth mercedes would’ve been able to catch and overtake him.

      1. @espaloratore1 Verstappen was losing time to both Mercs while Hamilton was chasing down Russell. Nine seconds after his pit stop became 15 seconds by the end of the race.

  9. Cheating cars, dangerous driving, rule bending, illegal cars, accounting manipulation etc etc etc

    Redbull F1.

  10. Max has never been able to race cleanly when under pressure, accepting defeat just isn’t in his make up. And Horner will defend his lead drivers in the face of all evidence and common sense.

    You’d expect nothing less.

    Max isn’t stupid, he knows that it doesn’t really matter what penalty he gets as long as Lando is held up – Lando is the one that needs to avoid incident, not Max, and Max will take advantage of that time and time again.

    He’s a very dirty driver, at times, but in my opinion it’s not because he especially wants to drive dirty – he’s just been bought up believing that being beaten is the worst thing in the world.

    1. At this point in the championship though, if norris wins always and verstappen comes 2nd always it’s not enough for norris, I think even if verstappen always comes 3rd it’s not enough, so it’s also in norris’ interest to have a collision, because IF verstappen is out and norris can continue, would be able to recover a lot of points.

      Let’s say for example that norris recovers 8 points on verstappen each of the next 3 races, we come to the last race and norris NEEDS verstappen out to have any chance.

  11. British media and fans got what they wanted: a mediocre English driver praised by the Stewards and a punishment to the driver who one day dared to defy and beat the almighty 44. F1 became ridiculous and only attractive to the ones living in the small island up Europe. I am sorry but you can fool yourselves with your fake heroes, but is getting more manipulated than during Ecclestone’s era. And it was not only to support English drivers, sometimes it was against French drivers, German or other non-British ones. It was like this with Prost (Senna), with Piquet (Nigel), Schumacher (Damon). “Time to get another villain, let´s pick up Max”.

  12. what he called “divebomb” moves, without specifying which driver he was referring to.

    He did it a little later by prooving lando braked even later in turn 4 the during his fastest lap.
    The “divebomb” was landos

    1. A move around the outside is hardly a dive bomb as the element of forcing the other car out of the way is missing. It’s also quite normal to brake later when you’re racing other cars than when you’re going for optimum lap time. Hence the term outbreaking.
      And from all camera angles, the trajectory of the car and the movement of the steering wheel it looks almost certain that Norris would have made the corner (with at least one wheel on) quite easily. But as he didn’t have any choice but to go off Horners argument becomes irrelevant anyway.
      I wouldn’t have given Verstappen a penalty for that incident btw as it was just hard racing and both cars ended in the right order. Turn 8 was really bad though…

    2. The “divebomb” was landos

      A “divebomb” round the outside, yeah that works every time…
      Did you even think about what you were describing there?

      You realise you’re working with “evidence” from Hans Christian Horner, teller of tall tales and fantasies?
      Recent tales include “Catering on a large budget” and “It’s not cheating if the wife doesn’t know”

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