Max Verstappen has lost third place in the Interlagos sprint race after receiving a five second post-race penalty.
The championship leader originally finished third behind the two McLarens, dropping two points in his championship battle with Lando Norris.However Verstappen, who was penalised twice during the last race in Mexico, was hit by a five second penalty for driving too fast under Virtual Safety Car at the end of the race.
Race control gave notification Verstappen was under investigation as the sprint race came to an end. An hour later, a summons document issued by the FIA confirmed he was being investigated for breaching his VSC delta time.
Under Virtual Safety Car conditions, drivers must stay above a minimum lap time as well as a minimum sector time to help prevent them running too fast. Drivers receive a real-time delta to this minimum lap time on their steering wheel, which enables them to adjust how fast they are driving to stay within the regulations.
While drivers gain an advantage by remaining as close to their VSC delta as possible without exceeding it, being under their minimum lap time when the race officially returns to green flag racing triggers a penalty. The stewards confirmed Verstappen breached his VSC delta by 0.63 seconds before the race officially restarted as he attempted to challenge Oscar Piastri for second place into Descida do Lago on the final lap.
“Article 56.5 states in part ‘all cars must also be above this minimum time when the FIA light panels change to green.’,” the stewards noted. “The driver was 0.63 seconds below the minimum time at VSC end when the FIA light panels changed to green. This indicates a sporting advantage gained under VSC.
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“The driver explained that as he was awaiting VSC to end and he got the notification that he was below the minimum time, he attempted to correct the error but failed to do so by the point that the panels turned green. This is a breach and the standard penalty is applied for the advantage gained
at that time.
“The net effect of this put the driver ahead of where he was at the start of the VSC and not as a result of the car in front falling back.”
As a result of the infringement, Verstappen was handed a five second time penalty which drops him behind Charles Leclerc to fourth in the final sprint race results.
The stewards also gave Verstappen one penalty point on his superlicence as a result, putting him on a total of seven. Drivers receive an automatic ban if they reach 12 in the space of a year, but Verstappen will deduct two between this weekend’s round and the next in Las Vegas.
Norris is now 44 points behind Verstappen in the championship battle, heading into Saturday’s grand prix qualifying session.
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2024 Brazilian Grand Prix
- “I didn’t really want to come back” – Hamilton explains cryptic Brazil radio message
- Ocon’s role in Gasly’s Q2 exit was almost another ‘flare-up’ at Alpine – Oakes
- Interlagos must improve “very bad” new track surface for 2025, say F1 drivers
- “That’s how we silence them”: Verstappen’s stunning Brazil win from start to finish
- Verstappen now has as many wins as F1’s first six world champions combined
Sonny Crockett (@sonnycrockett)
2nd November 2024, 15:29
The only person that can prevent Max Verstappen from winning the Championship is Max Verstappen.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
2nd November 2024, 16:58
For 1 point lost? With the chance to gain another 1 point, seems a gamble worth taking to me.
MarcusAurelius (@marcusaurelius)
2nd November 2024, 17:08
How about Johnny Herbert…
UKR
2nd November 2024, 17:18
How about Honda Dealer Derek Warwick in Austin?
Steve (@scbriml)
2nd November 2024, 17:30
@esploratore1 Red Bull were keen enough for Ricciardo to deny Norris one point for fastest lap, so yes they clearly care about one point.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
2nd November 2024, 23:13
@esploratore1 Not so much this weekend, but gaining at 3 points per weekend (not out of the question for Max) would put Max in a situation of missing Abu Dhabi.
PacificPR (@streydt)
2nd November 2024, 17:15
His passport..
Doh
2nd November 2024, 17:49
The funny part is that British media love to lay it on their own when they can like with Lewis in 2009 and 2011. And of course countless other sporting example. If max was British the way he races and acts he’d get layed into every other weekend
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
2nd November 2024, 17:28
You mean Johnny Herbert I presume?
Patrick (@anunaki)
2nd November 2024, 15:33
So the referenced SC rule is not valid for VSC?
Will Wood (@willwood)
2nd November 2024, 15:35
This is what the stewards are now having to decide.
Patrick (@anunaki)
2nd November 2024, 15:38
It didn’t look erratic it let’s find out then. Thanks
Patrick (@anunaki)
2nd November 2024, 15:38
It = but
SteveP
2nd November 2024, 16:22
The original article text was based on the assumption that it was purely that overlap (constituting an overtake manoeuvre – even if not completed) – which from visuals alone was reasonable.
However, the released document #40 is referencing “Alleged breach of Article 56.5 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations – Failing to stay above the minimum time…”
Exceeding the delta is usually a slam dunk, as the telemetry says all.
Grapmg
2nd November 2024, 16:34
That makes more sense. He was closer to Piastri than you would assume possible with the delta. But he was further away the moment the VSC really ended so lets see what the stewards will decide.
SteveP
2nd November 2024, 17:08
Document #43
Decision 5 second time penalty imposed after the Sprint.
anon
2nd November 2024, 19:26
SteveP, it’s rather disappointing though that something as objective as the time that it took Verstappen to cover a set distance is now being subject to crazy conspiracy theories about bias and fixing by some posters here.
TheOmega (@omega)
2nd November 2024, 15:59
Looks like the investigation is actually about exceeding the minimum time, not the driving alongside.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
2nd November 2024, 23:15
@omega Yes, the driving alongside was a symptom rather than the issue itself.
MichaelN
2nd November 2024, 16:44
Seems fair when he didn’t observe the minimum time.
Verstappen being his own worst enemy again.
Jere (@jerejj)
2nd November 2024, 16:48
Nothing surprising anymore & another point gain for Lando.
mystic one (@mysticus)
3rd November 2024, 0:46
What is surprising is that they re being objective and apllying the law to the letter… Unlike 2021… When the rules were treated as what rules :)
BLS (@brightlampshade)
2nd November 2024, 16:48
I assume Horner will be out soon to explain how this is someone elses fault.
David BR (@david-br)
2nd November 2024, 16:51
@brightlampshade spacetime dilation caused by Interlagos being raced in a bowl.
Dom (@3dom)
2nd November 2024, 17:04
@brightlampshade @david-br 🤣
BLS (@brightlampshade)
2nd November 2024, 17:31
It seems that the consensus is that going 0.63s quicker than you’re allowed under vsc should be allowed. Maybe the cuttoff is 1s and no one told the other drivers? It’s either that or Herbert made Max drive too fast?
Either/or…
jamt
2nd November 2024, 16:56
FIA is desperate to keep the WDC fight. That VSC should had happened before the McLaren drivers swapping positions
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
2nd November 2024, 17:00
That’s true, but we’re talking insignificant point gains anyway, both with the swap and with this VSC thing, which I had no idea about, was a very unusual situation.
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
2nd November 2024, 17:29
FIA match fixing…
mystic one (@mysticus)
3rd November 2024, 0:48
Not the first time, but where were redbull fair players then?
Mayrton
2nd November 2024, 18:04
They are not even trying to hide it anymore,
Steve (@scbriml)
2nd November 2024, 22:15
Oh no. Anyway…
Maybe if Verstappen didn’t keep breaking the rules, he wouldn’t be penalised.
mystic one (@mysticus)
3rd November 2024, 0:50
Doesn’t matter if it’s 0.0000001 ms of the delta. Rules are rules like Brazil 2021 innit?
Steve (@duuxdeluxe)
2nd November 2024, 17:04
Slam dunk if you see who is among the stewards…
Dom (@3dom)
2nd November 2024, 17:06
@duuxdeluxe slam dunk if the rules are followed and there aren’t any mitigating circumstances
Steve (@duuxdeluxe)
2nd November 2024, 17:16
A penalty point is completely out of place, but Herbert wants a Brit to win the WDC. History has proven this.
Davethechicken
2nd November 2024, 17:18
A VSC is for safety of drivers and marshalls, with marshalls on the run off unprotected. Driving too quickly under it is potentially dangerous. Penalty points are absolutely deserved. It is slam dunk.
Steve (@duuxdeluxe)
2nd November 2024, 17:20
>During the ending period when everything has been cleared
This guy…
Davethechicken
2nd November 2024, 17:32
What planet are you in Steve?? They can’t go under the delta until it has ended. It isn’t complicated or a JH conspiracy….
Oerp
2nd November 2024, 17:21
Slam dunk if it’s actually 0,63s. That’s not insignificant and clearly warrants a penalty and since VSC breachees are safety related he also gets a license point, not hard to understand really and not a Herbert is out to get sweet innocent Max thing.
Kribana (@krichelle)
2nd November 2024, 17:48
Penalty points are always deserved when it is speeding especially under VSC, SC, Red flags or yellow flags
SteveP
2nd November 2024, 17:17
Slam dunk when the Race Director refers an incident that telemetry confirms, the constitution of the stewards this week is at least partially due to the actions of Verstappen Senior (and Junior)
While checking the details of the stewards panel this week vs. Mexico, I came across an article that says:
“This change follows criticism from Max Verstappen and his father regarding a 20-second penalty given to Verstappen in Mexico. The FIA’s decision aims to address concerns about potential conflicts of interest among the stewards” (My emphasis)
It seems three out of four had conflict of interest possibles – but not JH
SteveP
2nd November 2024, 17:19
Should be a full stop:
“Slam dunk when the Race Director refers an incident that telemetry confirms. The constitution of the stewards…”
Steve (@duuxdeluxe)
2nd November 2024, 17:19
Stop trying this hard, you know very well what’s going on and what I’m refering to
SteveP
2nd November 2024, 17:48
You mean what you are insinuating.
The article was something that I stumbled on when checking the nationality of the stewards now and at Mexico – I like to be informed on stuff I’m writing – and it was a surprise to see that following a complaint from Verstappen and Verstappen the FIA made a change to the stewards to remove possible conflict of interest issues.
I do admit that I didn’t bring up that information until people started the insinuations about the one steward that remains (JH) since I expected it to be a trigger for some people – seems I was right.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
3rd November 2024, 0:46
You mean, the one with the known conflict of interest was left in?
SteveP
3rd November 2024, 10:02
@alianora-la-canta
Do you mean the one that certain people love to hate?
Note that the FIA action was to check for any conflict of interest and deselect any that had flags against them.
People seem to be assuming that one person alone was responsible for Max being issued with a penalty (or two) when a simple mathematical ratio shows that 3 can out vote 1
If you want to point at one person who could take action to either have a penalty, or not, then look at Max.
With the exception of the debatable validity of a reprimand for unacceptable language*, all Max’s penalties arise from him breaking a rule.
*Yes, I do use language like that, and probably too often.
No, I have not heard it from the school playground next door
Lee1
2nd November 2024, 18:40
I think you are either purposefully ignoring the rules for attention or you really know nothing about F1.
I am guessing it is the former.
The only person out to get verstappen is verstappen himself.
Makes me laugh that he was the one trying to make sure everyone was watching piastri with regards to deltas and in the end he broke the rule himself…
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
3rd November 2024, 0:48
Verstappen is not helping himself, but unfortunately it has become obvious that the FIA is also acting against him in a manner that contravenes its professional duties (to such an extent that it’s accidentally defeated the point of press conferences and made multiple races subject to legal challenge).
Steve (@scbriml)
2nd November 2024, 17:34
@duuxdeluxe Maybe don’t give the stewards the chance to penalise you by, oh I don’t know, not breaking the rules?
Grapmg
2nd November 2024, 17:10
As a Max fan I think he had a brilliant drive today and that last move under VSC is exactly what drives Max. He is always on the limit and I guess he gambled a bit on the VSC ending. But I feel the need to defend the stewards and the FIA. He exceeded the VSC delta we all noticed that so don’t complain about the penalty. Than the VSC it was suspicious but If you really look at the situation it made sense to wait until Hulkenberg stopped the car and got out. The FIA and Stewards are not biased. Inconsistent yes but not biased.
Dom (@3dom)
2nd November 2024, 17:15
What a common sense answer @Grapmg it’s a shame that so many others are so partisan. All of these accusations of bias are tiresome. We just need consistency and at time if racing is unfair, tweaks to make sure it’s as fair as we can make it
Ray West (@raynaud2211)
2nd November 2024, 17:18
The VSC was not deployed when Hulkenberg was already out of the car and walked towards the side. It was deployed when Verstappen was at .5 a .6 sec of Piastri on the straight towards start finish. To me, it is too late and also worth investigation since it was a dangerous situation.
Ludewig
2nd November 2024, 18:57
How does it make sense to let the cars drive fast when Hulk is walking around and only deploy it when he was safe?
Grapmg
2nd November 2024, 19:15
That doesn’t make sense the moment Hulkenberg gets out of the car the VSC should be deployed. Not sure why it took that long but it also doesn’t make sense to directly call the FIA biased.
Steve (@scbriml)
2nd November 2024, 22:21
They shouldn’t have been “driving fast” because of double yellows in that sector.
Dom (@3dom)
2nd November 2024, 17:10
Wow, was close with 0.63 seconds at VSC speeds but at the end of the day he knew it was a risk trying to get the track position to try to get a run on Piastri, and in this instance the risk he took backfired
Ray West (@raynaud2211)
2nd November 2024, 17:12
Seems fair it is punished.
Don’t understand the penalty point. Was it to dangerous? Didn’t see it to be honest
Davethechicken
2nd November 2024, 17:23
A VSC is for safety of the marshalls primarily. Driving too quickly under VSC is both dangerous to marshalls and other drivers who may be stricken on the track of climbing out of their car. Never mind gaining an unfair advantage.
Absolutely deserves penalty points
Ray West (@raynaud2211)
2nd November 2024, 17:38
Ah ok, thanks for the clarification!
Patrick (@paeschli)
2nd November 2024, 19:17
At that point the stewards had already decided that the hazard was cleared and given the go ahead to restart the race. So no Marshalls were ever at risk.
Davethechicken
2nd November 2024, 19:45
Patrick, it is simply not for the drivers to decide that though. They follow the delta until the VSC ends. I really can’t see how anyone can argue a penalty and points for this. It is as clear a penalty as they come.
The drivers don’t make the decision when it is safe to go racing or when a yellow flag doesn’t count, nor should they.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
3rd November 2024, 0:49
@paeschli Drivers are not allowed to make that assumption, in case a fresh incident has occurred to which the FIA has not yet fully reacted.
Adam (@rocketpanda)
2nd November 2024, 17:14
Johnny Herbert really took it personally I guess.
Steve (@duuxdeluxe)
2nd November 2024, 17:17
No surprise, Sky Sports were already praising McLarens choice to swap places before it happened as if it was the best thing to ever happen to them. Go back in time and the exact same people gave Ferrari and Red Bull flack for using team orders to swap places for wins. And guess what the only difference was…. Just as Alonso said back in the day.
SteveP
2nd November 2024, 17:23
Sky Sports race commentators tend to be [self censorship]
That has no connection with what a non-Brit Race Director does.
Steve (@scbriml)
2nd November 2024, 17:37
Oh no! Anyway…
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
2nd November 2024, 17:31
Discusting display of Match fixing by the stewards and the race director. Seeing they fired Masi… Send this race director packing.. but no.. they want to manipulate the championship to make it a thrilling ending…🤮
Dom (@3dom)
2nd November 2024, 22:55
This year is nothing compared to 2021 @w0o0dy
mystic one (@mysticus)
3rd November 2024, 1:00
This year obviously they re sticking to letter of rules… Unlike 2021, they completely butchered it to pieces, where even people from Mars were laughing. They let Max brake every rules in the book, and then some made up rules that is completely against the spirit of fair racing rules to make him a wdc by ignoring two major rules! Let all lapped cars pass the sc, not just some which would finish the race, then unfairly allow max to be right next to ham when he didn’t have any business there to begin with. If they applied the rules fairly and correctly. Like Brazil divebomb was 10 times worse then Mexican one! Or Saudi race where he parked the car in mid of track. Some of these people will be chanting fairness after 2021 is seriously need to get checked.
Steve (@scbriml)
2nd November 2024, 17:34
@rocketpanda Maybe stop breaking the rules?
MichaelN
2nd November 2024, 18:56
What about Luciano Burti? Or Gerd Ennser? Or Andrew Mallalieu?
Anyway, none of the stewards – not even the English – controls time.
Verstappen failed to stay on the proper time – which he himself admitted; “he attempted to correct the error but failed to do so”. This is all on him.
There is no interpretation, no conspiracy. Just numbers.
Steve (@scbriml)
2nd November 2024, 22:22
Stop being sensible, that’s not how it works here!
mystic one (@mysticus)
3rd November 2024, 1:04
Yeah funny how people from 2021 now asking for fairness and leniency still. Unbelievable. They re OK when the rules are broken to benefit them, but complaining when the rules applied actually correcy without interpretation or manipulation!
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
2nd November 2024, 17:34
Display of Match fixing by the stewards and the race director. Seeing they fired Masi. How about sending this race director packing? They want to manipulate the championship to make it a thrilling ending and Lando cannot do it without outside help.
Steve (@scbriml)
2nd November 2024, 17:36
@w0o0dy If Verstappen didn’t break the rules, he wouldn’t get penalised. Stop blaming everyone else.
Mayrton
2nd November 2024, 18:07
The issue here is the timing of the VSC – giving McLaren another 1,5 lap to sort their affairs. It was very obvious what happened. If it was Max benefitting from it instead of Lando, this site would produce 15 articles on this topic within 24hrs. I am interested to see whether it makes an article at all.
MichaelN
2nd November 2024, 18:57
No, the issue is Verstappen was too quick.
The deployment of the VSC is worthwhile to discuss, but has nothing to do with the penalty.
Davethechicken
2nd November 2024, 21:26
Two issues. I agree the VSC deployment seemed delayed and certainly worked in Norris’s favour, but clear penalty for Max. He doesn’t decide when the VSC ends
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
3rd November 2024, 0:52
@w0o0dy Part of the reason this race director is in place is due to lack of alternatives at this level. Eduardo Freitas refused to have any further involvement in F1 after the Japan 2022 mess, Michael Masi’s fate is well-known and the other race directors qualified at this level have not so far shown any sign of volunteering for this gig.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
3rd November 2024, 2:08
I’m surprised there’s so few race directors qualified at this level: since masi was considered incompetent in more occasions than just abu dhabi, how did he end up being qualified as a race director of the “pinnacle of motorsport”?
Moi
2nd November 2024, 17:42
VSC timing, now this. Stewards should be anonymous paid professionals I’m thinking, not nationalistic media ‘personalities’ with an ace to grind.
mystic one (@mysticus)
3rd November 2024, 1:07
pot calling the kettle black… Lol eating my popcorn. Where were these people on 2021
chimaera2003 (@chimaera2003)
2nd November 2024, 17:59
Given that the whole purpose of the VSC and SC is to slow down the cars to allow marshals to work safely on the track, and that it is a very prescriptive, objective limit that has been broken i really can’t see what the fuss is about. It is basically like speeding in the pit lane.
HerbertSteward (@madlewis)
2nd November 2024, 18:13
The VSC deployment timing was suspicious. Come on…At this point the FIA and stewards are a complete joke. This is artificial and it smells rigged.
Mayrton
2nd November 2024, 19:11
It doesn’t look good on them no. But they will make it go down to the last race. It sells. And nothing, really nothing is more important for the F1 ecosystem than generating revenue. It is not a sports association presenting us this sport, but a highly commercial, stock listed company (working closely with the regulator).
oweng (@oweng)
2nd November 2024, 18:21
It’s commonplace these days for them to only deploy the VSC or SC at the last minute. It happens a lot.
He gambled, he lost. I doubt he really cares all that much.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
3rd November 2024, 2:11
Only thing I can say is he drove well and deserved 3rd place, he also explored a possibility I haven’t seen before with the VSC, as in trying to make an overtake the second it ends, so I didn’t really know he’d get a penalty, now all of us and the drivers do.
SteveP
3rd November 2024, 10:27
He broke a rule, the standard penalty was applied. Rather like the penalty LH got from a minor speed infraction when following the whole train of cars through the pit lane following a crash out on the Start/Finish straight.
Numbers exceeded, penalty applied. In this case, Max loses one WDC point.
It’s not new, the diagrams in the Race Director’s notes come from rule refinements in 2021 – because Max was doing the old Schumacher trick of running up alongside his rival during the restart lead in. Only it being a VSC situation rather than a full SC is different.
If you haven’t seen it before, then you’d be really new to F1, but I don’t think that’s so. I think you just forgot.
CarWars (@maxv)
2nd November 2024, 18:41
Lets have 4 Dutch stewards for the race including Jos Verstappen, as conflict of interest is not a thing in F1 stewarding. I see no issue..
Mayrton
2nd November 2024, 19:14
It would be hilarious to have Jos Verstappen as a race steward for a couple of races. And in line with the ethics of the circus, there seems nothing blocking this.
SteveP
2nd November 2024, 19:25
Apparently you’re totally wrong, and it is seen as an issue:
https://www.newsminimalist.com/articles/fia-replaces-stewards-for-brazilian-gp-following-verstappens-criticism-f1ae05a5
Max and Jos complained, the FIA amended the active stewards list for Brazil.
mystic one (@mysticus)
3rd November 2024, 1:10
Lets bring Flavio Briatore for fairness
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
3rd November 2024, 2:13
With the car alonso is driving, I see no issue with briatore as a steward, it won’t make a difference.
Moi
2nd November 2024, 20:22
Jos, Tom Coronel, Robert Doornbos and Nelson Piquet Sr seems like an excellent stewarding team
SteveP
2nd November 2024, 21:02
LOL.
Nice one.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
3rd November 2024, 2:12
“There’s just no way, no way that was a penalty!”
An Sionnach
3rd November 2024, 1:26
This is just silly. I was wondering what Max was doing shaping to overtake too early. The rules are clear; he only has himself to blame.
Pinak Ghosh (@pinakghosh)
3rd November 2024, 3:49
Time penalty is understandable. But what’s with the penalty point? Absolutely unfair.