To say drivers were challenged over the Brazilian Grand Prix weekend would be to grossly understate how much the best in the world were tested around a bumpy, slippery and soaking Interlagos.
In conditions on Sunday that allow the drivers to be the ones to make the difference, some rose to the occasion while others wilted.But there are couple of performances that stood out as being among the very best weekends that drivers have put together through the 2024 season so far. These are the RaceFans driver ratings for the Brazilian Grand Prix.
A guide to RaceFans’ driver ratings system
RaceFans’ driver ratings system assesses driver performance across all three days of a grand prix weekend. Naturally, performances during competitive sessions – qualifying, sprint races and grands prix – will carry the most weight to their rating.
However, practice performance can affect a driver’s weekend rating in the event of a major mistake, such as a crash, consistent errors throughout practice sessions or if a driver shows a notably impressive speed throughout all free practice sessions relative to their team mate.
The system attempts to take into account the relative performance of each driver’s car and the expected results from that, meaning that a driver who wins a race in a car clearly superior to the rest of the field may not necessarily score as highly as a driver who claims a low points finish in a midfield car.
Ratings also attempt to take into account mitigating factors outside of a driver’s control. If a driver is forced to miss considerable track time due to car problems, is the victim of being blocked in qualifying, finishes far lower than expected because of a heavily botched pit stop or suffers any other misfortune they cannot be reasonably expected to control, their rating should not be penalised.
RaceFans rates each driver’s weekend performance on a scale of 0 to 10, where ‘5’ is considered to be a typically average weekend performance from a typically average Formula 1 driver.
Here is a rough guide to each possible score:
N/A – Not applicable – No rating is given as the driver did not sufficiently participate in the competitive sessions
0 – Disqualified – Only in the most extreme instance where a driver’s conduct disqualifies them from participation
1 – Appalling – An appalling display that brings a driver’s competency under immediate question
2 – Awful – A very, very poor performance of repeated errors with almost no redeeming qualities
3 – Very bad – Far more negatives than positives across the weekend which a driver should be very disappointed with
4 – Underperformance – Driver failed to achieve the base level expected for a Formula 1 driver
5 – Acceptable – The standard level of performance that should be expected from an F1 driver
6 – Good – A decent overall performance across the weekend, but not one of the best
7 – Very good – A strong performance across the weekend that any driver should be very pleased with
8 – Brilliant – A truly great weekend where the driver stood out as one of the very best of the field
9 – Exceptional – An outstanding performance that ranks as one of the best, if not the very best, of the entire season
10 – Legendary – One of the few all-time greatest performances by a driver in the history of Formula 1
Max Verstappen – 9/10
Sprint race start: 4th
Sprint race finish: 4th
Qualified: 12th (+1 place ahead of team mate, -0.387s)
Grid: 17th (-5 places behind team mate)
Start: +6 places
Strategy: One-stop (I-I)
Finished: 1st (+10 places ahead of team mate)
▶ Took fourth on the grid in sprint qualifying
▼ Passed Leclerc for third in sprint race but lost it for exceeding VSC delta time
▶ Knocked out in Q2 after being compromised by Ocon passing him on push lap
▶ Started from 17th grid slot after power unit penalty
▲ Gained four places at the start, then passed Hamilton
▲ Overtook Gasly, Alonso, Piastri and Lawson to sit sixth
▶ Gained second place with red flag
▲ Passed Ocon for lead at second restart and pulled away to win by 19s
Verstappen’s race engineer Gianpiero Lambiase put his performance on Sunday on a par with his famous drive at Interlagos in 2016. Extremely high praise, but fairly reflecting the mastery of the world champion as he gained 14 places over the grand prix to end his win drought in emphatic fashion, proving to everyone why he will be a four-times world champion at the end of the season.
Although he lost a place in the sprint race with a penalty, Verstappen’s remarkable control through the grand prix and the ease in which he passed rivals like Piastri were a striking demonstration of just how in his own league Verstappen remains when it is down to the driver to make the difference. His best victory of the season and one of the best of his career.
Sergio Perez – 4/10
Sprint race finish: 8th
Qualified: 13th (-1 place behind team mate, +0.387s)
Grid: 12th (+5 places ahead of team mate)
Start: -6 places
Strategy: Two-stop (I-W-I)
Finished: 11th (-10 places behind team mate)
▼ Knocked out of SQ2 in 13th after being unable to start final push lap
▲ Rose up from 13th to claim final point in sprint race
▶ Eliminated in Q2 with team mate but compromised by red flag
▼ Fell to last after spinning on opening lap
▶ Passed Saubers to sit 16th before red flag
▶ Gained two places at second restart when Hamilton and Alonso went off
▼ Passed by Hamilton to finish outside of the points in 11th
Sometimes Perez looks poor because he makes mistakes or massively underperforms and sometimes Perez looks poor because his team mate is just exceptional. It feels like it was more the latter than the former in Brazil as Perez could at least say he did not shunt his Red Bull even if he failed to score points. He had some legitimate excuses this weekend, but it still feels like several other drivers would have done a better job than he did.
Lewis Hamilton – 4/10
Sprint race start: 11th
Sprint race finish: 11th
Qualified: 16th (-14 places behind team mate, +2.029s)
Grid: 14th (-12 places behind team mate)
Start: +4 places
Strategy: Two-stop (I-I-I)
Finished: 10th (-6 places behind team mate)
▼ Failed to reach SQ3, eliminated 11th
▼ Lost several places at start of sprint, then finished 11th
▼ Knocked out of Q1 in 16th
▶ Lost places to Colapinto, Sainz and Bearman before passing Sainz and Colapinto
▲ Gained two places at restart to run ninth
▼ Lost two places sliding off track at Juncao
▲ Passed Perez to move up to tenth
▶ Could not pass Lawson and claimed final point in tenth
Hamilton was a joy to watch around Interlagos. He looked poised, controlled and showed that deft touch in the wet that all the great champions do. Then he climbed out of Ayrton Senna’s MP4/5 and into his Mercedes W15 and could hardly have looked less comfortable. After he and Russell once again split set-ups for the weekend, Hamilton struggled throughout and described the car as the worst it has ever felt to drive. But he at least kept it out of the barriers and came home with a single point from proceedings.
George Russell – 7/10
Sprint race finish: 6th
Qualified: 2nd (+14 places ahead of team mate, -2.029s)
Start: +1 place
Strategy: Two-stop (I-I-I)
Finished: 4th (+6 places ahead of team mate)
▶ Qualified sixth on the grid for sprint race behind Ferraris and Verstappen
▶ Finished sixth in sprint race after spending every lap there
▲ Secured front row start for grand prix in qualifying
▲ Passed Norris at the start to lead up to Safety Car
▲ Overtook Norris at restart, then passed Leclerc back after being overtaken
▶ Ran behind Gasly for rest of race, unable to get by
▶ Finished less than a second off the podium in fourth
One of the better performers of the weekend, Russell fared much better than his team mate over the weekend. He finished as high as probably could have been expected in the sprint race and then did a great job in qualifying to secure a front row start. Despite the limitations of the Mercedes over the weekend, he kept the lead for far longer than many would have predicted at the start and beat Leclerc and both McLarens. But it was a little surprising he could not find a way by Gasly over all those laps.
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Charles Leclerc – 6/10
Sprint race start: 3rd
Sprint race finish: 3rd
Qualified: 6th (+8 places ahead of team mate, -3.309s)
Start: +1 place
Strategy: Two-stop (I-I-I)
Finished: 5th (+11 places ahead of team mate)
▲ Secured top three position on the sprint grid behind McLarens
▶ Lost third to Verstappen in sprint race but gained it back after penalty
▶ Disappointed to qualify sixth after “shit” last Q3 lap
▶ Passed Lawson at start, then ran fifth
▶ Pitted early for second set of intermediates, but fell into traffic
▲ Passed Tsunoda at first restart, then Russell after second
▶ Lost a place to Russell
A decent weekend from Leclerc who would not have achieved the results he would have wanted, but still did a much better job than his team mate. Took a ‘podium’ in the sprint race, then was caught up in traffic after being pitted by Ferrari for a second set of intermediates. Finishing ahead of the two McLarens has to count as a good result.
Carlos Sainz Jnr – 3/10
Sprint race finish: 5th
Qualified: 14th (-8 places behind team mate, +3.309s)
Grid: 20th (-14 places behind team mate)
Start: +3 places
Strategy: Two-stop (I-I-I)
Finished: 16th (-11 places behind team mate)
▶ Secured top five place on sprint race grid but behind team mate
▶ Finished sprint where he started in fifth
▼ Crashed out of Q2 at turn two
▲ Started from the pit lane, moving up the order and passing Hamilton
▼ Spun out of the race at Laranja after touching white line
▶ Reprimanded after the race for ‘potentially dangerous’ situation after crash
From one of his best weekends of the season in Mexico to a poor showing in Brazil. Sainz’s weekend was defined by his two crashes on Sunday where he did not look like the same driver who had stormed to victory seven days prior. Although he did well enough in the sprint sessions, it’s hard to excuse multiple shunts when several drivers managed to stay on the track in the conditions.
Lando Norris – 5/10
Sprint race finish: Winner
Qualified: Pole (+7 places ahead of team mate, -1.281s)
Start: -1 place
Strategy: Two-stop (I-I-I)
Finished: 6th (+2 places ahead of team mate)
▶ Beaten by team mate to sprint race pole
▶ Won sprint race after being let through in closing laps
▲ Took pole position for grand prix in wet qualifying session
▼ Lost lead to Russell at start, then could not get by
▼ Passed Russell before red flag but lost position again at restart
▼ Lost two places sliding off track at second restart
▶ Overtook team mate to run in sixth where he would finish
▶ Reprimanded by stewards for not following aborted start procedure
When Norris needed to pull out his best and make the most of a critical opportunity for his championship chances, he simply was not able to do so. He had to ask the team to get Piastri to hand him victory in the sprint race, but set himself up well by securing pole position on Sunday morning. But over the course of the race, Norris showed too much weakness and made too many errors and he paid in his championship challenge being all but ended. A weekend of harsh lessons.
Oscar Piastri – 5/10
Sprint race start: Pole
Sprint race finish: 2nd
Qualified: 8th (-7 places behind team mate, +1.281s)
Start: +1 place
Strategy: Two-stop (I-I-I)
Finished: 8th (-2 places behind team mate)
▲ Beat team mate to sprint pole
▲ Led majority of sprint race before allowing team mate through to win
▼ Reached Q3 but only managed eighth on the grid
▼ Lost a place to Verstappen early, then passed by Gasly
▼ Hit with ten second penalty for collision with Lawson
▶ Gained sixth after second restart but handed it back to team mate
▶ Finished seventh but dropped behind Tsunoda after penalty applied
Piastri’s form has seemed to swing on an almost daily basis over the last two months and such was the case again in Brazil. He was strong in the sprint sessions to beat Norris in qualifying and the sprint race – handing over the win will not be counted against him – but on Sunday in the rain, that speed disappeared into the air like the spray from the back of his car. Plenty of other drivers did worse, but he is also capable of much better.
Fernando Alonso – 4/10
Sprint race start: 18th
Sprint race finish: 18th
Qualified: 9th (+1 place ahead of team mate, -0.373s)
Start: +1 place
Strategy: Two-stop (I-I-I)
Finished: 14th (+6 places ahead of team mate)
▶ Knocked out of SQ1 in 16th place but ahead of team mate
▶ Started sprint from pit lane, losing a place to Zhou but ahead of Stroll
▼ Reached Q3 but crashed out at Mergulho
▶ Lost places to Verstappen and Gasly before pitting under VSC
▼ Overtaken by Hamilton, then slid off at Juncao at second restart
▶ Ran at the back until passing Zhou late, finishing 14th
▶ Complained of discomfort due to bouncing in later laps
Aston Martin clearly had a terrible weekend at Interlagos and were trying many different solutions to try and solve their troubles with their car. But Alonso could not battle through them over the weekend like he has so many times before, making multiple mistakes on Sunday. He was clearly struggling with poor ride in the car and he at least finished the race, but the rain likely offered him more opportunities than a dry race would have and he could not make the most of them.
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Lance Stroll – 2/10
Sprint race finish: 19th
Qualified: 10th (-1 place behind team mate, +0.373s)
Finished: Did not start
▶ Followed team mate in elimination from SQ1
▶ Started sprint from pit lane but finished last of the runners
▼ Crashed out of Q2 at Curva do Sol
▼ Spun into wall on formation lap, then beached car in gravel and was unable to start race
After a perfectly acceptable if unremarkable performance on Friday and Saturday, Stroll’s Sunday ended in extremely embarrassing fashion. While there’s hardly any shame in crashing in a wet qualifying session when four of your peers – including your team mate – do the same, it’s hard to excuse the shambolic scenes on the formation lap.
Pierre Gasly – 9/10
Sprint race finish: 7th
Qualified: 15th (-11 places behind team mate, +3.408s)
Grid: 13th (-9 places behind team mate)
Start: +4 places
Strategy: One-stop (I-I)
Finished: 3rd (-1 place behind team mate)
▲ Reached SQ3 to secure seventh for the sprint race grid
▲ Held seventh throughout the sprint race, holding off Perez late
▶ Knocked out in Q2 after red flag meant he could not set lap on intermediates
▲ Overtook Alonso and Piastri before Safety Car
▶ Jumped to third by staying out on intermediates before red flag
▲ Held third at both restarts and held off Russell for several laps
▲ Claimed final podium place behind team mate in third
Gasly was exceptional in Brazil. He started off securing the best grid position for the sprint race he could have realistically expected to get, then converted it into the highest finish position he could have gotten. Like Verstappen, his starting position for the grand prix was far lower than he deserved through no fault of his own. But then in the grand prix, his rise from 13th on the grid to a podium in third behind his team mate was only overshadowed by the winner’s.
Yes, Gasly had a big break with the red flag. But he never once looked like giving up the final podium place after the restart even though he was pursued by the driver who led the opening third of the race. Gasly may have finished behind his team mate, but he had shown consistent excellence through all three days of the weekend and in very difficult conditions on Sunday. For that, coupled with no significant errors of note, he must earn a rare exceptional grade.
Esteban Ocon – 8/10
Sprint race start: 16th
Sprint race finish: 13th
Qualified: 4th (+11 places ahead of team mate, -3.408s)
Start: Held position
Strategy: One-stop (I-I)
Finished: 2nd (+1 place ahead of team mate)
▼ Eliminated in SQ1 to start 17th for sprint race
▶ Climbed up to finish 13th in sprint race
▲ Secured fourth on the grid with best qualifying of the season
▲ Held fourth in early laps and stayed out on inters before SC
▲ Inherited lead under red flag and held off Verstappen at restart
▶ Lost lead at second restart when passed by Verstappen
▲ Took first podium of the season in second ahead of team mate
Ocon may be about to say goodbye to Alpine, but he gave them what is likely to be one final podium together after an exceptional Sunday performance where he was outstanding in qualifying and the grand prix. Although he benefited from the red flag, he did put himself in the position to take advantage of one when the rain got worse and was not intimidated by Verstappen at the initial restart. His sprint sessions were unremarkable, but given how strong he was when it mattered most, he earns an excellent rating.
Alexander Albon – 4/10
Sprint race start: 9th
Sprint race finish: 10th
Qualified: 7th (+11 places ahead of team mate, -2.198s)
Finished: Did not start
▲ Reached SQ3 to take ninth on the grid
▶ Dropped three places in first three laps of sprint to finish tenth
▼ Reached Q3 but crashed out heavily at first corner
▼ Withdrew from grand prix as car could not be repaired in time
It’s difficult to know how harsh Albon should be judged for ultimately failing to start the Brazilian Grand Prix. While it’s near certain Williams would have fixed his car had he crashed on Saturday when qualifying was originally supposed to run, all drivers would have known that was a risk they faced. Although he was convinced there must have been something broken with the car before the accident, there has so far been no confirmation from his team. A shame, when he seemed the most confident of the two Williams drivers through the weekend.
Franco Colapinto – 3/10
Sprint race finish: 12th
Qualified: 18th (-11 places behind team mate, +2.198s)
Grid: 16th (-9 places behind team mate)
Start: +4 places
Strategy: Two-stop (I-I-I)
Finished: Retired (Crashed – L31)
▶ Couldn’t follow team mate into SQ3, knocked out 14th
▶ Passed Hamilton then passed by him late in sprint to finish 12th
▼ Crashed out of Q1, leaving him 18th
▲ Passed Hamilton on track to gain 12th place
▼ Crashed out of the race under Safety Car
A brutal weekend for Colapinto who was left heartbroken for more than one reason. In a weekend where received incredible support from the Argentinian fans who flocked to Sao Paulo to support him, Colapinto could not seem to get everything together the way he has done so often in his short F1 career when he wanted to most. He wasn’t the only driver to crash twice in the rain on Sunday, but he has to be judged on the same level as everyone else on the grid, and although the conditions were at their worst when the second occured, the race was neutralised at the time.
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Yuki Tsunoda – 7/10
Sprint race start: 17th
Sprint race finish: 15th
Qualified: 3rd (+2 places ahead of team mate, -0.373s)
Start: Held position
Strategy: Two-stop (I-W-I)
Finished: 7th (+2 places ahead of team mate)
▼ Eliminated from SQ1 in 18th place
▶ Passed Bottas to finish 15th in sprint
▲ Reached Q3 to qualify career-best third on grid
▲ Held third until pitting after VSC for wet tyres
▼ Restarted sixth but lost two places to sit eighth
▶ Ran in eighth until end of race
Tsunoda’s weekend gradually got better as the days went by until he was particularly strong when it mattered most on Sunday. He earned a brilliant third on the grid and did an excellent job to stay there over the first phase of the race. It’s a shame he lost places at the restart because from aside from that, he seldom put a wheel out of line through one of the most challenging races of the season.
Liam Lawson – 7/10
Sprint race start: 8th
Sprint race finish: 9th
Qualified: 5th (-2 places behind team mate, +0.373s)
Start: -1 place
Strategy: Two-stop (I-W-I)
Finished: 9th (-2 places behind team mate)
▲ Reached SQ3 to secure eighth on the sprint grid
▶ Just missed out on point in sprint after passed by Perez late
▲ Followed team mate into Q3 to secure top five start
▶ Let Verstappen by, then pitted under VSC
▶ Lost place to Hamilton at restart, then gained it back at second
▲ Held off Hamilton over final third to finish in points
Another weekend where Lawson was scrappy but certainly attracted positive attention. He was stronger than Tsunoda on Friday and Saturday before being beaten when it mattered most on Sunday but he still had a strong showing and potentially could have finished even higher had he not pitted just before the Safety Car when the rain hit hardest.
Valtteri Bottas – 6/10
Sprint race start: 15th
Sprint race finish: 16th
Qualified: 11th (+9 places ahead of team mate, -1.63s)
Start: -4 places
Strategy: One-stop (I-I)
Finished: 13th (+2 places ahead of team mate)
▲ Reached second stage of sprint qualifying but knocked out 15th
▶ Passed by Tsunoda to finish 15th in sprint
▲ Reached Q2 but denied chance to potentially reach Q3 after red flag
▼ Lost several places at the start, then three more places in one lap
▶ Overtaken by Bearman at second SC restart, then ran 13th until finish
While it looks increasingly like Bottas’ time in Formula 1 may be drawing to an end – at least as a race driver – he continues to demonstrate that he is having the most underappreciated season in the worst car in the field. He over-achieved in both qualifying sessions and could have done even better had circumstances not went against him. He was again the team’s better driver on Sunday but was perhaps not aggressive enough in defending his position in the early laps – not for the first time this year. But the fact he continues to languish last in the championship does not fairly reflect on his performances.
Zhou Guanyu – 4/10
Sprint race start: 20th
Sprint race finish: 17th
Qualified: 20th (-9 places behind team mate, +1.63s)
Grid: 19th (-8 places behind team mate)
Start: +3 places
Strategy: Four-stop (I-I-W-I-I)
Finished: 15th (-2 places behind team mate)
▼ Eliminated slowest in sprint qualifying
▲ Passed both Aston Martins to finish sprint behind team mate
▼ Knocked out slowest, again, in Q1
▶ Started from pit lane breaching parc ferme
▼ Lost places with off at Subida do Lago
▶ Passed by Bearman after restart, then overtaken by Alonso in later laps
▶ Finished last in 15th
It seems that Zhou’s biggest limitation as a driver has been exposed clearly in 2024 and that is when it comes to getting the best out of a bad car. Of course, ‘bad’ is relative as Sauber’s C44 is still much faster than many cars from the sport’s history, but it is clearly the worst in the field and Zhou seems to continuously struggle with it more than his team mate. Brazil was yet another example as he was simply the slowest driver on the circuit, but at least he finished the race.
Nico Hulkenberg – 4/10
Sprint race start: 12th
Sprint race finish: Retired (Power unit – L20)
Qualified: 19th (-2 places behind team mate, +0.394s)
Grid: 18th (-3 places behind team mate)
Start: +4 places
Strategy: Three-stop (I-I-W-I)
Finished: Disqualified
▶ Unable to follow team mate into SQ3, eliminated in 12th
▶ Rose to ninth at start of sprint but fell to 12th before retiring
▼ Knocked out in Q1, four tenths slower than team mate
▲ Rose up the order to run 11th early on
▼ Pitted for second set of inters, then spun out at first corner
▶ Disqualified from the race for receiving push from marshals
Not a good showing from Hulkenberg, especially when he is usually a driver that is at the top of his game in the wet in Interlagos. He was out-qualified in both sessions by a rookie team mate, but looked stronger in the sprint race. He was putting in a decent drive in the grand prix until spinning out and was black flagged under the red flag. For the sake of rating him, Hulkenberg will be judged as if simply never recovered on track after his spin.
Oliver Bearman – 5/10
Sprint race start: 10th
Sprint race finish: 14th
Qualified: 17th (+2 places ahead of team mate, -0.394s)
Grid: 15th (+3 places ahead of team mate)
Start: +2 places
Strategy: Two-stop (I-I-I)
Finished: 12th
▶ Called to step in to replace ill Magnussen
▲ Reached SQ3 but had his sole lap time deleted for a track limits infringement
▼ Poor start in sprint, then faded in later laps
▶ Knocked out of Q1 but ahead of team mate
▼ Admitted to making “too many mistakes”, including several offs
▼ Hit with ten second penalty for collision with Colapinto
▶ Finished the race but outside of the points in 12th
▼ Received a 10 second time penalty and 2 penalty points for a collision in
An unexpected third grand prix appearance of the season for Bearman, but even he admitted it was not a strong one. Although he had a very good Friday and out-qualified his far more experienced team mate twice, Bearman’s first wet grand prix was filled with errors. But at least he finished the race and did not wreck his car once in the two wet Sunday sessions.
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NB. Drivers who completed fewer than five races omitted.
Over to you
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2024 Brazilian Grand Prix
- “I didn’t really want to come back” – Hamilton explains cryptic Brazil radio message
- Ocon’s role in Gasly’s Q2 exit was almost another ‘flare-up’ at Alpine – Oakes
- Interlagos must improve “very bad” new track surface for 2025, say F1 drivers
- “That’s how we silence them”: Verstappen’s stunning Brazil win from start to finish
- Verstappen now has as many wins as F1’s first six world champions combined
James Bond (@jamesbond)
5th November 2024, 10:06
WoW. Verstappen a 9! Well deserved.
notagrumpyfan
5th November 2024, 10:27
But strange that Gasly also scored a 9.
Even if 9’s would’ve been much more common (like 10-20 per year), then I don’t think this was a 9 for him.
David
5th November 2024, 14:24
Gasly is in a midfield car, Max in one of the top cars.
Definitely deserves a 9
Bojangles
5th November 2024, 20:47
If Pierre is a 9, then Max is a 10…
wsrgo (@wsrgo)
5th November 2024, 11:41
@jamesbond very rare nine-pointer! I wonder how many instances we’ve had of those. I used to argue against the ratings system in the past (and I still don’t LOVE it since it often feels like a grade system than a points system) but it’s still nice to see the odd exceptional performance be rewarded with a high score.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
5th November 2024, 13:51
We’ve probably had around 6x 9 so far.
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
5th November 2024, 10:14
Not to pinpoint excuses, but Franco’s grandpa passed away before the weekend, so maybe his mind wasn’t fully into it.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
5th November 2024, 10:23
Ah I hadn’t heard about that, very sad.
Dex
5th November 2024, 10:34
I don’t think Bearman deserved that 5, relative to other driver’s ratings. 4 at best. Other than that, I have no arguments here.
Paul
5th November 2024, 10:35
Lance Stroll 2/10
SPRINT
▶ Followed team mate in elimination from SQ1
▶ Started sprint from pit lane but finished last of the runners
RACE
▼ Crashed out of Q2 at Curva do Sol
▼ Spun into wall on formation lap, then beached car in gravel and was unable to start race
What would he have to have done to get lower than a 2!!!!
I mean keeping it on the track and finishing last in the sprint is a pretty low bar for a 2.
Dex
5th November 2024, 16:06
I’m pretty sure that he could’ve done worse, so it’s good to reserve 1 for such special occasions. In addition, he could’ve taken other people off track, drive in the wrong way or cause more material damage. Stroll’s performance was pathetic, to say the least, but at least not too dangerous or maniacal. Let’s hope he keeps it that way.
People usually try to hide nepotism, which is impossible to do when you’re an F1 driver/team owner. I don’t understand why the Stroll family enjoys this public embarrassment. I suppose that Stroll Sr. prefers to live in a bubble when it comes to his son.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
7th November 2024, 22:02
Given that the scale ends at 1, the declaration of a 2 makes sense. 1 would have to be reserved for something so awful it would stand out even in a season of 2s and 3s.
Andy (@andycz)
5th November 2024, 10:40
Is this first 2 in historiy of these rankings? Well done Lance, well done…
tielemst
5th November 2024, 10:48
Does his talking on the track, that one…
Dan Rooke (@geekzilla9000)
5th November 2024, 11:34
Definitely a Number 2 driver (except in his dad’s eyes, who views him as a champion in the making – if he can buy him one!)
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
5th November 2024, 13:52
As far as I know yes, so congratulations for stroll, 9s are more common than 2s in this ranking!
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
5th November 2024, 13:53
to stroll*
MG1982 (@mg1982)
5th November 2024, 10:53
This race proved Ferrari was right to let SAI go… although he performed very well in the previous 2 races. The car was difficult to drive for sure + Ferrari’s drop in performance when it’s not hot meant it wasn’t going to be a great GP for them, but overall his performance looked amateurish and that’s not excusable for him anymore. He’s just not dependable. The seasons are like +20 races long, 2-3 wins / season is not even enough to ”qualify” as a title contender, be it WDC or WCC. Hopefully HAM will perform better and be a net gain for Ferrari, but I reckon the fact that he will be 40 in just few months + some performances in the last 2 years kinda worry me.
roadrunner (@roadrunner)
5th November 2024, 13:03
He spun out of tow of the three wet races. Not great at all. But on the other hand, Ferrari scored just two P5 out of those six starts. Their car can’t be good in the wet either.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
5th November 2024, 13:54
Yes, the car hasn’t been good in the wet in a long time now.
Ronny
5th November 2024, 14:20
Lewis been worse then Sainz to be honest. So its looking like a very very expensive downgrade.
Dex
5th November 2024, 16:11
I don’t judge drivers based on one race, although Sainz surely doesn’t belong in the same class as Verstappen, or even Leclerc. Using your criteria where you’re only as good as your last race, they have replaced one error prone driver (which Sainz isn’t, really) with another error prone, not too fast driver; since Hamilton didn’t impress either.
They didn’t replace Sainz because of his performance level, but marketing (and it worked like a charm). Who knows if Hamilton will do any better (he doesn’t perform better than Sainz lately, I think it’s fair to say), but it will be very interesting to watch him in a new team, hopefully well motivated.
EffWunFan (@cairnsfella)
6th November 2024, 0:11
I dont judge drivers on one race either, but it is sad to see LEwis so low on the driver averages. Even if I were to disagree with the odd point here and there it’s still a disspointing season on a personal level aside from the Mercedes struggles.
I truly hope the Ferarri switch proves energising for him, but I cannot disagree with the fact that he has been below par for his own loftgy standards of late, despite the odd race where his talent has shone through.
When considering Alonso’s performances as well I do wonder wether the talent maybe doesnt go away, but the ability to consistently perform at 100% may be more difficult into ones more senior years.
black (@black)
5th November 2024, 10:53
Honestly, I wonder which performances historically would be considered a 10? Because it’s starting to feel like we’ll never get a 10 in our lifetimes no matter the performance.
If Vestappen started and finished easily 1st in all sessions, then the argument would be “ah but he had the best car again, so maybe a 8-9 at best”.
If he made a mistake in quali and won the next day, then the argument would be “yes he was good in the race, but he made a mistake in quali, so not a 10”.
Now that he was eliminated from Q3 without being his fault,
AND had to take a grid penalty,
AND in a race with so much chaos where there weren’t straightforward overatkes due to the new PU (like Hamilton in Brazil 2021 breezing past everyone) but you could easily crash or spin because some driver misjudged their braking point,
AND where the red flag wasn’t that random, anyone with common sense could see that the rain was intesifying and if it wasn’t for Colapinto, it could have easily been somebody else, so he effectively did not take the ‘easy’ bait of pitting under the VSC or SC but went all in, in the torrential rain with worn inters and paid off,
AND mastering every restart, making a crucial overtake for the win in the last one,
AND setting fastest lap after fastest lap in these conditions,
AND finishing 19sec clear in the span of 26 laps
and he doesn’t get a 10… because I guess he ‘lost 3rd place in the sprint for exceeding VSC delta time’ (like it’s the crime of the century), I honestly don’t know which driver can get a 10 ever…
I’m pretty sure that if we go back in time to all the ‘legendary’ (the 10s) performances, we can find pedantic reasons over the weekend to ‘lower’ their grade.
notagrumpyfan
5th November 2024, 11:01
It would be good and to see a list of the 10’s and compare them to this race for Verstappen (and Gasly).
roadrunner (@roadrunner)
5th November 2024, 11:21
Agreed. The bar is now pretty high. Maybe a win without being helped by red flags or safety cars is needed.
Would be a shame if a sprint race of all things have denied us our first 10.
GechiChan (@gechichan)
6th November 2024, 11:04
A win from 17th without a bit of luck / Red Flag involved is not really possible today, in this tight field. Plus, these other drivers are not amateurs, they’re the best drivers in the world. And if the car made all the difference, then we’d get to the first point of the OP – there would be some points deduction because the car was so dominant. So no way for a perfect 10 either way you put it.
Hotbottoms (@hotbottoms)
5th November 2024, 11:12
I assume Verstappen would have gotten a 10 for the race (and for qualifying, where dropping out arguably wasn’t his fault), even with the extremely high standards for a 10 in this rating system.
However, as you mentioned, his sprint performance wasn’t great. Given that no driver has ever received a 10 in these ratings, it’s understandable that Verstappen didn’t get a 10 this weekend.
black (@black)
5th November 2024, 11:34
@hotbottoms
Well first of all Verstappen (and any driver) has to clear the ‘high’ standard which is the sprint nowadays to be considered a 10, which is an extra quali and race in a weekend. I’m pretty sure if the sprints existed back in time, we would definately find silly reasons to argue against legendary performances (like saying “yes Schumacher was absolutely phenomenal in Spain 1996 weekend… but he finished 2nd in the sprint and/or had a warning for track limits, so I can’t really count this performance as a 10”).
But anyway let’s also consider the sprint for argument’s sake. Verstappen was 0.3sec down in quali, outqualified by Piastri, Norris and Leclerc, 3 other pretty good-to-great drivers, who are driving top-2 cars as we’ve seen in the last 10 races – it’s not like McLaren’s and Ferrari’s form was a blip for a race or two, they are fast. And it’s not like Verstappen was outqualified by a random Williams or Haas, so maybe that was all of Red Bull’s one lap pace in quali (likely if you also consider that he was going to get a grid penalty, so he would definately need race pace to overtake cars).
In the race he raced hard Leclerc, eventually passing cleanly and he was on track to pass one of the McLarens as well before a weird VSC forced him to stay 3rd. His ONLY “MISTAKE” of the weekend was what, exceeding VSC delta time? Seriously? That’s beyond ridiculous to me. If he crashed or made one of his latest Verstappen red mist moves I would understand, but this is such a tiny ‘mistake’ to me in front of the masterclass that followed.
What’s next?, Raikkonen in Suzuka 2005 moved a bit under braking in one of his 16 overtakes so that’s a 9? Senna in Monaco 1984 was late in the press conference so that’s got to be an 8?
Hotbottoms (@hotbottoms)
5th November 2024, 11:47
@black
I’m not defending this rating system. In fact, I’ve mentioned several times before that a rating system where most drivers consistently receive a 5 or 6, with no one ever getting a 1 or 10, is flawed and should be revised.
However, I do think Verstappen’s 9 is consistent with previous ratings under this system. Apparently, a 10 requires a perfect performance over the weekend, and Verstappen left some points (or at least one point) on the table in the sprint. His race performance was close to perfect and likely would have earned him a 10 even within this rating system.
No one has ever received a 10 in this rating system (I believe this is either the third or fourth year of using it). As far as we know, Verstappen’s performance over the weekend was considered the best during this period, but it still didn’t qualify for a 10 due to the extremely high standards set for that rating.
black (@black)
5th November 2024, 12:29
@hotbottoms
I agree with you that the system is flawed, I’m just baffled but the double standards on these ratings.
And even with that sane logic, we’ve seen weekends where Verstappen or Hamilton were absolutely perfect, doing gran slams and not even letting anyone consider they might have a shot at the win… yet they still end up with 8 because “they were driving the best car”, or “they didn’t face competition”.
I suppose a 10 is reserved if a random 18 year old is forced to drive a Sauber for his 1st race, and he magically qualifies P1 for sprint and race, takes a 20-place grid penalty and he still manages to win both, in the torrential rain… and even then we should definately have a closer look at his race, maybe he would have accidentally cut a corner in FP1 which would disqualify him…
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
5th November 2024, 13:58
A perfect performance is usually an 8, it requires exceptional circumstances to get a 9 and probably now that they don’t race in heavy rain, 10s are simply not possible.
Bojangles
5th November 2024, 21:02
If Max is a 9, okay that’s fine. But then Pierre is an 8. Can never be the same level..
JCCJCC
5th November 2024, 16:42
Don’t forge that Senna in Donington 1993 had a bad start and only qualified 4th.
Also, Schumacher in Barcelona’96 also had a terrible start (he was 9th at the first corner)
Frank
5th November 2024, 11:39
It hink here is your argument against a 10.
He delivered an extraordinary performance, but he was not crushing the competition by 4 seconds a lap like Schumacher did during some of his best drives..
I would say this drive rates below Schumacher Spain 1996, Monaco 1997 or Spa 1997.
But even so. There is no other driver that has the right to make any claims to the 2024 title.
As for Norris. He did not loose the title this sunday. He lost it in the 4-race spell when Red Bull started showing cracks in the armour, yet Verstappen still managed a 3/4 win rate. If Norris had won 3 out of 4 (as I think Verstappen would also have done in a McLaren), he would be 42 points closer and still in full title contention.
José Lopes da Silva
5th November 2024, 11:40
Fangio in Germany 1957 is likely a 10
Senna in Donington 1993 is a 9 because of superior McLaren electronics
MurasamaRA300 (@murasamara300)
6th November 2024, 10:32
Second that, Fangio’s 1957 German GP win must be a 10.
I would like to nominate Ronnie Peterson’s Monza win in 1976.
The March 761 was definitely not the best car of the year – not even close. March was 7th in the constructor’s championship and that win was nearly half their points (9 out of a total 19). Peterson started 8th and worked his way up throughout the race to the top of the podium.
F1statsfan (@f1statsfan)
5th November 2024, 14:11
Well it gets even weirder if you consider that Ocon got a 9 last year for Monaco race.
He got a 9 because he qualified 3rd in the Alpine and then managed not to crash during the rain to finish 3rd.
So baffled how qualifying 3rd and staying 3rd (37 seconds behind Max) in Monaco (a no overtaking track) warrants an 9 but qualifying 4th and finishing 2nd (19 seconds behind Max) in Brazil (an overtaking track) gives you an 8.
In my opinion of all the 9 given over the years Ocon’s 9 in Monaco was least deserved and Max’s 9 in Brazil was most undervalued.
The 10 score is suppose to be given for a drive/performance once per decade – given that in all 7 decades there have just been 6 wins from 17th of lower (5 if you exclude 1954 Indy500) – that alone should have warrant the 10.
The fact that is was done in ever changing wet conditions with brilliant overtakes as well as finishing more than 30 seconds (pitstop is only 20 seconds) ahead of the guy on pole in the quickest car is just more supporting proof.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
5th November 2024, 19:34
What about perez’s win in bahrain 2020 outer track? He didn’t start very far back, but ended up last through no fault of his own and won without having anywhere near the best car, even though the mercedes pit wall caused several troubles.
Even so, I believe if anyone should get a 10 it’s him.
An Sionnach
5th November 2024, 16:49
Fangio, Nürburgring, 1957?
Stewart, Nürburgring, 1968?
Since it was raining and a little foggy in ’68 does that mean it gets a higher mark or is as perfect as humanly possible good enough for ten?
Nikos.Galina
6th November 2024, 12:00
I pretty much agree to all of the things you said
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
7th November 2024, 22:04
@black I think if Max hadn’t broken the VSC regulation in the sprint, he’d have got his 10.
notagrumpyfan
5th November 2024, 10:54
If Verstappen retires now (with a 7.1 average score) he will end the year on top (even with 10’s in the next races Norris and Leclerc will still sit below 7 on average).
It requires three more red mist Mexican GP’s for Verstappen to give Norris/Leclerc a chance if scoring at least 8’s until the end of the season.
Jungle
5th November 2024, 10:59
Norris’ qualifying in the wet was sublime, was really impressed. Had he lead into turn 1 (I know what if’s) think he would of pulled away from Russell which would have changed the whole dynamic on when he pitted red flag not withstanding. Would of been interesting to see if Max would of still chased him down.
Johns
5th November 2024, 11:11
If Ver did not get a 10 for his drive, then nobody deserves a 10, ever.
About Lance, someone needs to tell him this not golf; low score doesnt win. Maybe Lance is just trying to spend his dad’s money the most foolish way possible?
BW (@deliberator)
5th November 2024, 12:43
Golf would probably not suit Lance either, considering his attraction to the sand trap.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
5th November 2024, 14:01
Ahah, that’s a good one!
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
7th November 2024, 22:06
The issue is that this weekend had two drives, not one (from the write-up, he lost a point for the VSC infraction in the sprint)…
Sergey Martyn
5th November 2024, 11:16
IMHO Tsunoda and Lawson got the ratings too high.
Gasly deserved 8 at best.
Moi
5th November 2024, 11:22
I have to ask, if this doesn’t merit a 10 then what does? I don’t think it is likely we will witness another drive like this anytime soon. His qualifying result was not good, but not due to his own performance, and it enabled his sunday magnificence since a recovery drive was needed and that is what he delivered.
Conversely, what does Stroll have to do to get a 1? Not only did he crash on the formation lap, which would be 2 territory right there, but then he completely unneccesarily drove straight into the gravelpit, ending his race.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
5th November 2024, 14:01
I believe 2 is low enough, there’s been other terrible performances these years and they always got 3 minimum.
MacLeod (@macleod)
6th November 2024, 14:08
Not starting the race because of his ******* would I qualify for a 1 that is really exceptional.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
7th November 2024, 22:07
Sunday warranted a 10. Saturday, not so much.
Dan Rooke (@geekzilla9000)
5th November 2024, 11:36
Maybe Lance Stroll is rebelling against his dad. Maybe he doesn’t want to be an F1 driver any more. This was a protest drive.
….or maybe I’m just too used to having teenage kids!
baasbas
5th November 2024, 14:39
@geekzilla9000
I felt that one..
James Bond (@jamesbond)
5th November 2024, 11:55
AM will never be a top team. How can the team develop a competitive car with a driver like Lance in the team. Sure Alonso is great but I think they need another good driver to make progress.
Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
5th November 2024, 17:16
Alonso is no longer great. There was a stage of the season where there was as many as 8 races whee Stroll overall did a better job than him.
Unless you meant Alonso being great in terms of development. It terms of performance, Him and Hamilton seem to have made a big step back this season. I think their age is starting to show.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
5th November 2024, 19:38
Yes, I’m afraid you’re right, there’s been several decline indications for both, however let’s see how hamilton does in the ferrari and how alonso does once newey is onboard, as motivation could also have to do with that.
debaser91
5th November 2024, 11:56
That was the worst race I’ve ever seen Hamilton have, I’m really struggling to think of a worse one, 4 is generous. Just zero pace and no extenuating circumstances like the car being damaged (other than him not liking and having no confidence in the car). And while he was P15 or whatever he was Russell was leading the race.
Jere (@jerejj)
5th November 2024, 11:57
Most impressed: VER, OCO, GAS, TSU, & LAW
Most disappointing: NOR, BEA, SAI, COL, & PER
tielemst
5th November 2024, 12:26
My biggest disappointment would have to be Lewis. He has proven to be one of the greats, especially in wet conditions. He was just nowhere this time. Perez however, is not a disappointment anymore. It’s as expected.
Asd
5th November 2024, 13:19
You expected Perez to do better?
He qualified at p13 and then finished at 11th. That was a very good Perezian weekend.
Sergio basically had 2 successes:
1. Got out of Q1.
2. Avoided a fatal driving blunder and finished the race.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
5th November 2024, 14:04
As others said, I think perez out in q2 is not a surprise any more, his sprint was decent but race wasn’t as good, I’m surprised to not see stroll in here, as he was really abysmal, but maybe that’s the same reason for perez, as in no surprise any more.
Jere (@jerejj)
5th November 2024, 19:42
@esploratore1 tielemst Asd
I left Stroll out partly because of his brake failure, but I agree that I could’ve included Hamilton in the mix, but wanted to be a bit conservative & mostly limit choices to the ones who truly messed up.
F1statsfan (@f1statsfan)
5th November 2024, 14:19
10 – Legendary – One of the few all-time greatest performances by a driver in the history of Formula 1
To translate that a 10 is given for a once in a decade performance.
In the more than 7 decades of F1 only 6 times has a race been won from 17th or lower on the grid (5 if you exclude 1954 Indy500) – that alone would already warrant the 10 score.
Adding to that it was done in ever changing wet conditions with most drivers having 1 or more errors/spins/offs/crashes – Max had none.
Adding that there were multiple brilliant overtakes based on excellent skill and control of the car.
Adding that he won more than 30 seconds (pitstop is about 20 seconds) ahead of the guy on pole in the quickest car.
All this does really support the question why Max wasn’t given a 10
Fairly sure if Norris or Russell or Hamilton had the race Max had the 10 would have been given.
Peter707
5th November 2024, 16:44
Nelson Piquet jr. finished 2nd starting from 17th at the 2008 German GP, was his performance at least a 9 then?
Riccard
5th November 2024, 23:23
For the BBC, this was one of the top 7 wet weather drives of all time:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/articles/cnvj1zg50p0o
If they’re right about that then it should clearly be a 10.
Personally, I don’t think you can compare Verstappen’s drive in these “mixed” conditions to what Clark and Stewart had to race in… but I do think his race was more complete and impressive than Hamilton 08 (winning from 4th) or Button 11 (a race of two halves). So perhaps it is around the 5th best wet weather drive. If that’s not a 10, what is?
An Sionnach
6th November 2024, 6:58
The main reason why it is great is because Max’s championship position had become tenuous. We will see just how tenuous it was in the coming races if the car continues to underperform. That is unless Lando stops putting in the performances (and he has put in some good ones).
Schumacher had a very poor car in 1996. Senna had a decent enough one in 1993. Their race was not for the championship, though. Fangio raced for that in 1957 at the Nürburgring and had a lot to do after a bad pit stop. He was always measured and made sure he finished alive, but he said he risked more than before on this occasion. Conditions in 1968 for Stewart and everyone else were awful. Schumacher’s race in Spa in 1997 lost him the championship. He was rightly furious at Coulthard. If a heroic failure could count, it would be that one. Senna sometimes made errors in the wet and his errors marred his brilliance somewhat. To be fast in the wet is one thing, but control is needed in a championship situation – to make sure you do not make any mistakes.
Max was fast at Interlagos, but also controlled. I’ve been criticising him for seemingly wanting to win when sitting close to Lando and settling would be better from a championship perspective. He did win again at Interlagos, but I think this was a controlled drive that was more like Lauda or Prost. He was going to close the championship window for Lando, even if it meant finishing a couple of places behind him. The red flag is irrelevant – this was a drive worthy of a champion. Max has answered his critics with a mature, measured performance.
MichaelN
5th November 2024, 14:25
It’s a bit much that just about everyone who didn’t stick with the starting tyre when the race got Red flagged gets what is essentially a failing grade. What is this rewarding, exactly?
That said, there were some genuine flops. Stroll, Sainz and Hamilton all had really poor weekends. Obviously Pérez had as well, but yeah.
MichaelN
5th November 2024, 14:26
When = until. Obviously they didn’t keep the tyres after the red flag.
MattDS (@mattds)
5th November 2024, 15:25
So for which driver would you make a case that they deserved much better than they got? Lots of drivers made mistakes this weekend and some multiple, large ones. Albon, Colapinto, Norris, Piastri, Hamilton, Perez, Sainz, Alonso, Stroll, Bearman: that’s half the grid that you can easily identify as having stinkers of weekends based on the high-profile errors they made or just being downright poor compared to their teammates. Add Zhou for just sucking all-around and Hulk for collecting the first black flag in a LONG time and really what’s there to argue with?
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
5th November 2024, 20:56
@MattDS that’s a huge number of stinkers as you called them. These are not bad drivers necessarily. If we had Fangio, Clark, Schumacher, Lauda, Prost, and Senna and they all turned out to be stinkers in a race, would they suck or would something else be the reason for that?
These are decent drivers. Leclerc may have flaws but he’s quick. Sainz is also very consistent. Alonso is a 5 time WDC for most folks and one of the best ever. Hamilton, we all know. Russell was doing really well and is a phenomenal driver.
Piastri looks more promising than Verstappen as a rookie. Perez is not the fastest on the grid but he’s pretty good in the rain, except in the best he’s been given which is also the worst of his career. Norris may not be as good as Max but there’s a reason why he’s the challenger.
These are not drivers that don’t belong in F1 and should immediately file for their Uber license along with the other greats I mentioned.
If anything Ocon and Gasly are probably not as good as the drivers we just mentioned. They’re not that far off either from some but when Gasly drove for Red Bull, he couldn’t get on a podium. Ocon didn’t drive for Red Bull but we can extrapolate that he would have had the exact same race as Perez did today.
An Sionnach
6th November 2024, 7:15
Hmm… when exactly did Fangio and Clark have a stinker? Lauda, Prost? Pre-retirement Schumacher (not counting sliding off at the beginning of the wet 1996 Monaco GP). Senna had some shockers.
In fairness to Lewis and Alonso, they have shown amazing longevity and been in many more races than the others. Seeing your champion do silly things or make basic mistakes takes the sheen off their standing. I would not admit them (or Senna) to this group.
I expect Lewis to do better next year if he has a good car. He should still have good race pace and that can make up for his weaknesses. I’m not so sure about Alonso. He’ll need a better car than everyone else. Lewis may struggle to put a challenge together if Leclerc can mount one of his own. If they can both overcome their errors and poor patches and give us consistent performances they’re still the most promising drivers on the grid. Unless Lawson and Colapinto fulfil the promise they’ve shown. I like Leclerc, too. He has improved. You don’t have to be amazing in the wet to be great. It certainly helps, though!
Yes (@come-on-kubica)
5th November 2024, 15:47
I don’t think Max deserves 9. People overrate stuff more frequently nowadays. I have no idea how russell or leclerc wouldn’t get 9 either as they did nothing wrong.
Dex
5th November 2024, 16:17
It’s not (or shouldn’t be) about not doing anything wrong, it’s about doing things better than others. I can’t say that watching Russel or Leclerc felt remotely as exciting as watching Max’ performance. They weren’t as quick or brave, they didn’t have the same progression on track, and they didn’t repeatedly set like cca 20 fastest laps as they disappeared into horizon.
They didn’t make major mistakes, but there’s nothing too special about that.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
7th November 2024, 22:11
It’s not supposed to be about how exciting it looked. Especially considering the Red Bull was plainly a much nicer-handling car than either the Mercedes or Ferrari (for all 6 drivers).
You’ve basically penalised a bunch of drivers for not having the best car.
GechiChan (@gechichan)
6th November 2024, 12:22
Their pace was 1 sec / lap slower than Max after the final restart… on the same tires and in clean air (before Russell caught Gasly). Plus Leclerc missed some corners and lost a bit of time, on 2 ocasions, while Russell was really struggling in heavy rain (passed by Norris like it was a cooldown lap). Is that really worthy of a very rare 9?
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
7th November 2024, 22:15
@gechichan Leclerc was not in clean air off the final restart, and also had used inters (he’d already used every set of inters permitted at some point on Sunday). He was also the only person to have given Verstappen any meaningful resistance, which he’d done for a dozen laps, and this should be counted in his favour. I concur that it wasn’t a 9, but I feel there’s a strong case for it to be 7 or possibly 8 (in the latter case, there’s a reasonable argument for likewise promoting Russell to an 8).
Robert Williams (@weiliwen)
5th November 2024, 16:30
Verstappen’s drive was one that will be spoken of decades from now; I hate the guy, but he deserved a “10” today.
I think both Alpine drivers deserved a “9” for massively outperforming.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
7th November 2024, 22:16
@weiliwen Sunday, yes. Saturday also had a race, though.
Francesco (@schivo69)
5th November 2024, 18:20
I think Max should be an 8. As his performance has been lifted by the free tyre change. It is not his fault, it just doesn’t give a clear measure of his performance. I think a win with the same number of pit stops would have been a nine.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
5th November 2024, 19:42
Agree, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with giving him 8 in this case, nor giving him 9 had he managed to go ahead without red flag.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
5th November 2024, 20:16
@schivo69 – I think Verstappen would have won no matter what. The rain equalizes but it also doesn’t. For instance, if it’s raining and I’m running, just because it’s raining and everything is now equal, I’m not going to cross the finish line at the same time as a sportscar. The sportscar, even though it’s raining and it will post a slower time than normal, is still going to have more pace than someone on foot.
If I have a car that’s 5 seconds faster and we have the same tyres – the slow car will lose guaranteed and it’s going to look really bad for the slow car as they try to put lap times on the limit. This would also hold true with a car that’s 1 second faster even if it started in P17 because by the end of the straight, it would be in P10.
Red Bull is the only team in the world that has ever found itself in the position where it had a 1 second faster car that they could just bring out and run under the guise of rain and equalization.
Francesco (@schivo69)
5th November 2024, 20:37
As far as I am concerned, Max was stuck behind Leclerc, then magically he finds himself second behind an Alpine. Unless teleporting is part of f1, I think this element renders any objective evaluation baseless. It was an outstanding drive with an unexpected result,very entertaining but influenced by a free pitstop.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
5th November 2024, 18:45
Formula 1 posted a beautiful video of onboards. I’d recommend people watch it. It includes Verstappen’s onboards.
Verstappen cleared 3 rows at the start with the same car as all of you have been saying is the case in the rain :-) I don’t know if that’s a 9 for the driver or an 8.9 for the car and 0.1 for the driver. Maybe this rating should have separated the driver from the car this weekend.
Then he overtook 2 cars (again in the same car as everyone) and for some reason stopped in front of Lewis as you see Lewis’ car twitch under power which happens in almost all onboards with all drivers except for one car which is clearly a different category car.
Norris said that the Red Bull could have lapped them once, I’d say twice so 1.5 times is the correct answer.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
5th November 2024, 19:41
The problem is norris already exaggerated with thinking he could’ve lapped him once, it’s unrealistic, so averaging an exaggerated prediction and one even more so obviously brings out extreme scenarios.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
5th November 2024, 19:55
@esploratore1 if you look at the laps when Verstappen pulled in front of Ocon, he was 0.75 seconds faster and it was metronomic, meaning he wasn’t pushing hard and was just having the same advantage over the fastest cars.
They raced 69 laps so that’s 52 seconds. Verstappen’s best lap was 1:20. That’s without any pressure and let’s say he had another 0.5 seconds of extra speed that he’s not using to avoid binning the championship. He’s not going to put pole laps in the rain and throw it all away.
Perhaps Norris was right. McLaren must have analyzed it in more depth than I did with my off-the-top-of-my-head calculations.
Look at the start – he’s clearing the cars as if he has a LMP1 car and they have GT3 cars. Even the Mercedes and McLarens were GT3 level.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
6th November 2024, 1:07
You also need to consider the possibility that ocon might not have been the 2nd fastest driver though, after all he didn’t have a top car, it’s possible that norris would’ve been faster than ocon had he had clear track.
In fact, I gave a look now at https://en.mclarenf-1.com/2024/gp/s9298/lap_times/842-823/
which is a great website to check lap times and norris was sometimes 2 to 5 tenths faster than ocon in the last few laps.
Considering he rarely had clear track, I wouldn’t be surprised if he would’ve been able to do so more consistently otherwise; this doesn’t mean he was faster than verstappen, just not that slow to be lapped.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
6th November 2024, 12:45
Thanks for the link – that’s a great resource. It’s actually interesting because I saw chart that showed a linear progression over the last few laps. This shows a lot more variance in lap times but it’s pretty clear that Verstappen had a massive advantage.
I’m surprised he didn’t clear Leclerc like he did everyone else – maybe he believed he had done enough damage limitation by then which he had. But it’s better to be cautious there unless you want to risk a Canada 2011 replay which probably cost Hamilton a victory and gave Button his best one.
MD
5th November 2024, 19:59
Literally the only reason why you’re tolerated and allowed to be on this site at this point is that your nonsense brings reactions and clicks to this site which they so desperately need.
How I miss the F1fanatic of about a decade ago.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
5th November 2024, 20:34
@MD That’s a pretty hateful and unsubstantiated reply to a comment that is based on the WDC challengers’ professional opinion (and his team’s I’d surmise) along with clear lap times and clear video to back it up.
I guess your comment is based on your belief that Max can drive 0.75-1.25 seconds per lap faster with a slower car in the rain than anyone else on the grid. Did anyone see an indication of Max’s car being on the limit for the tiniest moment as one would normally expect over the entire race in these conditions? Maybe he was having a hard time as he claimed in the interview but I don’t recall seeing it in the race or the video.
Maybe you can point me to it.
Bojangles
5th November 2024, 21:23
Oh dear, oh dear. Don’t rub into the stain, it gets bigger and bigger…..
MD
5th November 2024, 22:03
I’ll point you to the fact you are inventing stuff so you can sleep at night. That’s not hate, you’ve been going on a rampage of unsubstantiated allegations – zero proof, zero basis. If your opinion is “based on the WDC challengers’ professional opinion” you are taking their opinion and fabricating false conclusions over it that weren’t spoken out nor implied. Something like movies being “based on a true story” that have hardly anything to do with the original story anymore.
You simply cannot handle what you are seeing, you are unable to admit what so many are admitting. You’ve spread your nonsense for years to the point that it has now gotten utterly and totally ridiculous.
Take a page out of Lewis’s book who WAS man enough to call Max’s drive for what it was. I’ll let it up to you to see what he had to say about it. Not some drivel about “a car clearly in a different category”, that’s for sure.
Like I said, the only reason you still get this podium is because this site likes the engagement coming from that nonsense. Hate? Heh. I hate the utter nonsense from keyboard warrior fans, that’s what I hate. Your posts fit the bill.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
5th November 2024, 23:57
I sleep quite well at night. I’m not sure why you need to launch a barrage of personal insults in order to validate Max’s performance.
I do NOT believe that Max is 0.75 seconds faster in the rain than the other cars especially with the Red Bull we have seen over the past 10 races. And he’s metronomically quicker without any issues or any sign of stress under the conditions.
Lewis always congratulates people even when they don’t deserve it – he even did in 2021 when Max stole the championship driving Lewis off the track every single time he ran into him starting in Silverstone.
Clearly you would believe that Max could go into space and live without oxygen for a few years. I think that’s nonsense.
I’m actually a huge fan of almost all sports people out there (well, there is Real Madrid and their incessant match fixing that’s as bad as Max and Red Bull) but other than that, I pretty much like and will defend everyone.
People take the proverbial stump on drivers like Vettel and Perez and everyone else and even Gasly and Albon and I kept saying “they can’t be the worst drivers on the planet and remain in F1 for 5-10 more years – clearly something else is causing that”. I’ve been saying that about Perez while everyone criticizes him. He’s not that bad a driver, period! Just as Max is not that good a driver! That’s a narrative that Red Bull have been trying to create with Max for years now and we know that those drivers can actually win races (Gasly and Ocon have won races) beating Max with lesser machinery.
I will never like Max because of his character. He’s a cheater, a liar, and a coward. I think these are his main qualities along with speed in this sport.
And that’s why I know he cheated. Cause he’s too afraid to race and lose. This is common knowledge in F1 that Max would do anything not to lose and the last thing he would do is fight fairly. But you already knew that.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
6th November 2024, 1:16
There’s a problem here: verstappen is probably the opposite of a liar and a coward, he’s one of the few people in f1 who say it like they think, if he thinks his team mate is underperforming, he says that, that’s what I call honesty.
And in terms of cowardice, he also said he doesn’t fear any team mate, and I don’t see why he would, since he’s showing to be the best driver around atm.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
6th November 2024, 14:12
@esploratore1
That’s predicated on Brazil, right? Cause he surely didn’t show to be the best driver a few weeks ago. It’s almost as if Red Bull tried to rebuild Max’s image.
Do you really believe that Perez in an Alpine would not have fared the same as Gasly and Ocon did? Do you think he would have lost to Lawson and Tsunoda?
Max says a lot of things that are utter nonsense and yet none of his supporters question them. He apparently quoted
And by the way, there’s an uncharacteristic comment by Horner about the car this weekend. I’ve watched so many interviews by Horner and not once have I heard him praise the car like he did this time in a drive where the car should not have mattered at all but he did pick this race of all the races to talk about the car and that’s not by accident. He uncharacteristically even praised the team at home. If I didn’t know any better, I would think Toto was giving the interview or Lewis Hamilton.
Ruben
6th November 2024, 14:43
Michael, have you seen the 1996 Spanish GP before? That car didn’t work at all, definitely at the beginning of the season. It was likened by Schumacher to a parachute. Yet in Barcelona Schumacher was much faster than everyone else because of the heavy rain. Read the article, it mentions things about time differences with the far superior Williams, even between sessions in the same weekend.
I’ve seen your comment above with the comparison between a sportscar and running too. In al fairness: that’s comparing apples and oranges. If, for instance, you and your neighbour have the same car. But you have the regular model and your neigbour has the sporty GTR/ST/Abarth version of it.
In dry conditions he’ll be faster if he drives his car ‘on edge’ to the supermarket. In heavy rain however, the sporty ‘badge’ won’t add as much performance as in the dry. In the dry it’s easy to put all the power and handling down on the asphalt and convert it into performance. In the rain the water on the asphalt is the limiting factor and both cars reach that limit before they reach the limit of their performance.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
6th November 2024, 16:44
Excellent argument Ruben along with an excellent example. I did not know about Spain 1996. I just looked it up and yeah it looks like an amazing from Schumacher. I also noticed that only 6 out of 21 drivers finished the race, one of which was Schumacher. Alesi was unfortunate with one of his trademark P2s.
The difference I see here is that Ferrari didn’t have a car that had won countless GP in a row. After Spain they have not been able to win but I think the consensus was that Red Bull had 2025 and 2026 locked from just about everyone. The differential was unlike anything ever witnessed to the point that DRS was not needed as an overtake could be made anywhere on the track without it.
I also believe the field was quite a bit weaker in 1996 than it is today – I don’t mean any disrespect to the drivers of that era but just population-wise there are 1.5 F1 drivers to 1 F1 driver today so 1/3 of them should not have been in F1 and if we include pay drivers then the bar is even higher for non-pay drivers like Alonso, Hamilton, Russell, Leclerc, Sainz, Norris, Piastri etc.
But your point is valid and I have never disagreed that Max is not fast or not good in the rain. What I’ve said is that Red Bull took no chances there because they had a car that can trump every other car by a margin and it would have guaranteed the WDC for Max.
In the video you shared, I can see that Schumacher is struggling and being cautious. I never saw that with Max but I saw it from all other drivers. But I’ll also not deny that Palmer’s analysis yesterday showed a snap of oversteer at one moment for Verstappen.
Your statement is definitely a fantastic counter-argument but then you have Horner making a completely uncharacteristic comment about the car almost as if he’s patting himself on the back for the performance. We’ve all known Horner for 15-20 years now so we know when he’s acting out of character. It’s almost like a poker player asking you what you’re holding when he’s never spoken before in 20 years of playing together.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
6th November 2024, 16:45
@Ruben Sorry, I got caught by mod-e-ration so I’ll break it by paragraph to see the offending portion.
Excellent argument Ruben along with an excellent example. I did not know about Spain 1996. I just looked it up and yeah it looks like an amazing from Schumacher. I also noticed that only 6 out of 21 drivers finished the race, one of which was Schumacher. Alesi was unfortunate with one of his trademark P2s.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
6th November 2024, 16:45
The difference I see here is that Ferrari didn’t have a car that had won countless GP in a row. After Spain they have not been able to win but I think the consensus was that Red Bull had 2025 and 2026 locked from just about everyone. The differential was unlike anything ever witnessed to the point that DRS was not needed as an overtake could be made anywhere on the track without it.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
6th November 2024, 16:46
I also believe the field was quite a bit weaker in 1996 than it is today – I don’t mean any disrespect to the drivers of that era but just population-wise there are 1.5 F1 drivers to 1 F1 driver today so 1/3 of them should not have been in F1 and if we include pay drivers then the bar is even higher for non-pay drivers like Alonso, Hamilton, Russell, Leclerc, Sainz, Norris, Piastri etc.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
6th November 2024, 16:46
But your point is valid and I have never disagreed that Max is not fast or not good in the rain. What I’ve said is that Red Bull took no chances there because they had a car that can trump every other car by a margin and it would have guaranteed the WDC for Max.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
6th November 2024, 16:47
oops, i used a president’s name :-)
But your point is valid and I have never disagreed that Max is not fast or not good in the rain. What I’ve said is that Red Bull took no chances there because they had a car that can tr-u-mp every other car by a margin and it would have guaranteed the WDC for Max.
In the video you shared, I can see that Schumacher is struggling and being cautious. I never saw that with Max but I saw it from all other drivers. But I’ll also not deny that Palmer’s analysis yesterday showed a snap of oversteer at one moment for Verstappen.
Your statement is definitely a valid and strong (if not winning) counter-argument but then you have Horner making a completely uncharacteristic comment about the car almost as if he’s patting himself on the back for the performance. We’ve all known Horner for 15-20 years now so we know when he’s acting out of character. It’s almost like a poker player asking you what you’re holding when he’s never spoken before in 20 years of playing together
Leo B
5th November 2024, 21:36
I think we should rate Max quite apart from everyone else on this occasion.
If he is getting a 9, then the rest should be rated between 1 and 3. Fair is fair.
Riccard
5th November 2024, 23:30
I would have
Max – 10
Gasly, Ocon, Russell – all 8
Tsunoda, Lawson, Leclerc – all 7
With clear air between Max and the next three
Femke
6th November 2024, 0:05
When you are doing just marginally better than ocon did in an alpine because you both did a no-pitstop strat…
Why is everybody hyping max but forgetting about ocon who didnthe dame strategy with the same awesome result BUT in an ALPINE of all cars. Thats even a bigger stunt!
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
6th November 2024, 1:18
I’m guessing it has to do with the good vs bad sprint race, that matters too.
Femke
6th November 2024, 0:05
When you are doing just marginally better than ocon did in an alpine because you both did a no-pitstop strat…
Why is everybody hyping max but forgetting about ocon who didnthe dame strategy with the same awesome result BUT in an ALPINE of all cars. Thats even a bigger stunt!
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
6th November 2024, 13:16
Because he was overtaken by Max and Gasly was behind him – had Ocon managed to pull ahead and put 20 seconds on Max with a 71 second slower car, then he would have won the duel.
And let’s not forget about Perez who has the same car and was P11 and was behind Lawson and Tsunoda. If Perez was in the Alpine, he would have been on the podium:-) But it does sell the narrative that the cars are the same and Max’s is not only legal but would have barely cleared P5 in the WCC if Max wasn’t a super driver that can somehow add 100 hp on straights at Spa last year over the sister car.
The truth of the matter is people will believe anything you sell them and this day that will live in infamy proves it more than any other day.
baasbas
6th November 2024, 15:09
@freelittlebirds
The truth of the matter is people will believe anything you sell them and this day that will live in infamy proves it more than any other day.
Sheer poetry
and the irony is not lost on me