“That’s how we silence them”: Verstappen’s stunning Brazil win from start to finish

50 comments on ““That’s how we silence them”: Verstappen’s stunning Brazil win from start to finish”

1. 

   Prab
   8th November 2024, 7:26

   Max drove a great race, no doubt. And 80% of the field wouldn’t have been able to do it.
   But the red flag helped him a lot to jump Norris and Russell. I would still rate his 2016 drive as superior.
   1. 

      Mayrton
      8th November 2024, 7:46

      1st, 2nd, 3rd, doesn’t really matter here, it is about the drive. In 2016 he didn’t win but equally as impressive. I think the plans for sprinklers on track will be shelved until Max leaves the sport.
      1. 

         Craig
         8th November 2024, 10:15

         I think that plan was shelved because it was stupid.
      2. 

         roadrunner (@roadrunner)
         8th November 2024, 12:34

         That’s absolutely correct. I’m not his biggest fan and the red flag helped, that’s for sure, but his performance was quite on an other level compared to the whole field. That’s the most impressive thing. Only Verstappen did find the grip early on, only he could overtake people and in clean air he was just miles faster than anybody else.
         I have no doubts that he would have beaten Norris anyway.
         Although the Alpine-Boys did quite well too given the car disadvantage they have compared to Red Bull and the other top teams.
         1. 

            Prab
            8th November 2024, 12:41

            That is not true.
            He wasn’t able to overtake Ocon, instead Ocon was pulling a gap on him before another safety car restart gave max the opportunity to lunge on the inside.
            1. 

               Riccard
               8th November 2024, 13:29

               He literally overtook Ocon, by finding a better line through the corner and being better on the brakes.

               Your argument that “he wasn’t able to overtake Ocon until he overtook him” could be pointed at any successful overtake ever.
            2. 

               Michael (@freelittlebirds)
               8th November 2024, 15:43

               Yeah but an external factor closed down the gap is what he’s saying. That’s like saying that Verstappen overtook Hamilton at Abu Dhabi in 2021. Three external factors made that happen – one he had changed tyres while Lewis had not, there was a safety car, and the racing director chose to break the rules to give Max a chance at an overtake.

               Your point would be that Max had to at least P2 to make that happen and that’s true – he had worked hard and the car that Max had been given was an amazing car according to Horner (a statement I have not heard from him in a very, very long time, if ever).
            3. 

               Michael (@freelittlebirds)
               8th November 2024, 15:46

               And we should take note that when the principal of Red Bull (Christian Horner) states that a driver has been given an amazing car to drive for the GP, I think victory is practically guaranteed regardless of track conditions. The drive has to be great and it was but the outcome was also going to be the same.
            4. 

               Michael (@freelittlebirds)
               8th November 2024, 15:51

               Their career win ratio since 2005 is 121 wins out of 390 races which is 31%. The average win probability is 30% and this season 50% – add Horner’s belief that it was a significantly better car than normal so higher than 50%, I’d say 75% is the midpoint. I’d go with 80%-85% chance of winning. Mostly because of P2 (5%) and the possibility of a mistake by him or another driver (10%).
            5. 

               Michael (@freelittlebirds)
               8th November 2024, 15:54

               I’d go with 80%-85% chance of winning

               With Max driving and knowing his ability in the rain, I’ll be honest, I’d bump that even higher. Maybe 90%.
      3. 

         Michael (@freelittlebirds)
         8th November 2024, 13:34

         @Mayrton So victory determines the skill level? If there was no red flag and Verstappen had finished P2 overtaking everyone but, say, Norris or Russell, he would not have driven as well.

         Sounds like the red flag determines Verstappen’s skill then.
         1. 

            Mayrton
            9th November 2024, 9:43

            I am arguing the exact opposite.
   2. 

      MacLeod (@macleod)
      8th November 2024, 7:49

      A red flag screwed him in Q2 so it’s even but even without the red flag I think he would get Lando during the race as he had a day off..
      1. 

         miciek (@micio)
         8th November 2024, 8:35

         In Q, you need to do a lap as soon as possible to avoid any flags later on. He just didn’t to a quick lap when it mattered.
         1. 

            Señor Sjon
            8th November 2024, 9:11

            Problem for Verstappen in Q2 was that every inter run was interrupted. So he never got the chance to improve. First due to Sainz, second due to Ocon divebombing him in T1 and third with the Stroll crash.

            Their pitbox was at the start of the pitlane, so he had a traffic jam every time before, so he couldn’t enter the track first.
         2. 

            Kata
            10th November 2024, 9:13

            Regarding the red flags, both situations were the result of decisions made by the team and the driver.
            In Q2 it was the wrong one to come out late and during the race it was the right one to stay out longer.
            If they had come out earlier in Q2 they probably would have had a better place on the grid and if they had come out earlier in the race they probably would not have finished first.
   3. 

      Grapmg
      8th November 2024, 8:52

      I guess it helped him jump Russel but as Lando finished behind Leclerc and even ended up behind Piastri for a moment its not difficult to predict that Red Flag saved Norris from further humiliation.
   4. 

      notagrumpyfan
      8th November 2024, 13:49

      Weird that some fans can only judge a ‘great drive’ based on overtakes :P
   5. 

      An Sionnach
      8th November 2024, 15:00

      If the red flag issue is truly one of fairness we would also be concerned that the safety car had already reset the field, closing the window that Ocon and Max had to pit. Given that they were the fastest on the track they should have been able to stay out, make significant time, pit and finish closer to George and Lando. Has anyone analysed the lap times to see what would have happened? Perhaps, given their pace, Ocon and Max could have pitted and came out ahead? Would that then also be unfair so that tyre changes should also be banned? Ultimately, they had far more pace and were just better. To guess Max’s chances of overtaking, you’d need to look at how their straight line speed compared to Leclerc’s. He’d made a significant error, but still had the speed to recover when Max had the jump on him. He would definitely have been passed after the pit stops in a non-neutralised race.

      Given Lando’s errors, he was just likely going to finish behind George or even further back. Even if he was first and Max was third, the championship challenge would have become quite tenuous.
      1. 

         Esploratore (@esploratore1)
         9th November 2024, 5:20

         Yes, 34 points to recover in that scenario, would’ve been the same situation as pre-brazil, requiring norris to win all races with verstappen 4th or lower.
   6. 

      Jungle
      9th November 2024, 10:33

      I rate it better too. Based also on his age and level of experience in F1 at the time.
2. 

   Terrion (@terrion)
   8th November 2024, 9:52

   I think Max doesn’t understand what the fundamental issue is. We all know he is a really great driver and probbably the best driver in the field in wet conditions.

   What the critics towards him are saying is that his behaviour goes against the spirit of fair play and his attitude “if I can’t overtake you, I’ll make sure you at least lose some positions” does not belong to the sport. And since he did not fight his rival Lando for position at any time during the weekend…

   …yeah noone’s opinion has changed after Brazil.
   1. 

      miciek (@micio)
      8th November 2024, 10:04

      Yeah, they are just pretending that everything is fine in the Red Bull camp. But we all know it’s Red Bull’s swan song. This lucky win can’t change the trend.
      1. 

         Terrion (@terrion)
         8th November 2024, 10:16

         Nah, this is not about Red Bull. If Max raced Lando the same way he races Charles for the remainder of the year, there is a chance he would shut some of his critics. Brazil’s performance did not change anything
         1. 

            T
            8th November 2024, 14:55

            that’s the hilarious thing about watching all this from afar

            ‘Critics’: “Max, you’re a wonderful driver and your race-craft is often second to none, please drive like the champion you are”
            *max proceeds to do almost exactly what is expected of him*
            Max*: “that’ll show ’em, that should shut them up for good!!”

            *i just know someone will be pedantic and say that was GP’s line but if you kept reading, Max did not disagree one bit with that sentiment, in fact, the ‘where are the British reporters’ in the presser later and the ‘wrong passport’ comments more than confirms and illustrates his beliefs.
   2. 

      An Sionnach
      8th November 2024, 15:04

      It is permitted to prevent someone behind you from overtaking you and your can use all of the road if you are ahead at the apex. Other than the second penalty in Mexico the call for each of Max’s moves was a marginal one.

      Is his offence really that he won’t move over and let Lando by?
   3. 

      pcxmac (@pcxmac)
      8th November 2024, 18:52

      I think what you have is Max believes that people in general, believe in authority or might makes right. Now hes not wrong, a lot of people do turn against reason and evidence in the light of intimidation and potential abuse, BUT, does that make him right… Only if you follow his reasoning, which I do not, and I believe most people should opt for PRINCIPLE over AUTHORITY, as ethics, are far more important than doing what one is told.

      Principles should always come first, even if it means being destroyed by them. Not all principles are worth following, and our ethics change as we get older. It’s easy to see Max in his younger age going more towards something he feels entitled too, however, he needs to realize, a team like Ferrari could set him back a number of years, and doing the things he does, while not winning, will only sabotage his reputation in the eyes of the most ardent supporters of authority and might.

      You live by the sword -> you die by the sword.
   4. 

      Mayrton
      9th November 2024, 10:28

      What the critics towards him are saying is that his behaviour goes against the spirit of fair play

      Those critics are a subgroup within the F1 community (with their personal agenda) who therefore not represent public opinion at all. I see a driver on the edge of the regulatory framework (and sometimes over.. yellow card, red card in football, but rarely.. looking at the nr of race starts he had vs ones with incidents.. I guess it is what people would like to see or focus at) who brings back the wheel to wheel action in the sport that has gotten lost throughout the processional racing era of Vettel and Hamilton (“I will make way for the champion given I am not racing him anyway with his rocket ship” era). People simply forgot what motor racing was supposed to be. So for some it is a shock Max restored the DNA.

      And what is exactly considered to be in the scope of the concept of ‘fair play’? Does it only cover on track actions of a driver or does it also covers FIA’s behaviour when favouring the challenger with timely VSC’s & red flags? Or officials penalising some teams for things on their cars, while letting others get away with it? Is that also covered under ‘fair play’? Do the critics conveniently turn their eyes away from leniently penalised starting procedure infringements for instance? If a team starts a demonisation campaign towards a competitor is that covered under fair play? So, overall I wouldn’t focus too much on the rare times Max gets it wrong, I would rather enjoy the fresh wind he brings back into the sport despite all the political & media meddling.

      I understand there is a (largely UK based) fan group who would like to go back to the era in which their man’s car has 1 sec per lap over the rest of the field, for 8 years straight in a row, people make way for him or his team orders his team mate to let him pass. But those days are over.
3. 

   MichaelN
   8th November 2024, 10:05

   Says a lot about his character that “silencing” critics is his default thought process.

   It’s not that complicated: everyone knows Verstappen is the best of his generation. Many also, and separately, find issue with the manner in which the FIA has allowed him to bump and barge his way past his competitors.

   Winning races does nothing to change that.
   1. 

      Azmo (@azmo)
      8th November 2024, 11:10

      If you actually read the article you’d have seen that this was GP’s line.
      1. 

         Osnola
         8th November 2024, 22:47

         Prejudice does not need facts.
4. 

   SteveP
   8th November 2024, 10:27

   “It needs to be red, this” says Max when he knows his track rivals are behind due to a pit stop, and he can get one for free with a red flag.
   As luck would have it, Colapinto sorted that for him.

   I do wonder how he would have got on passing Russell and Norris on track.
   I suspect that might have been somewhat more of a challenge than Ocon provided, but we will never know.
   1. 

      Jojo
      8th November 2024, 14:01

      Norris went off track a couple of times and even Leclerc got past, who was already behind Verstappen before the red, so I don’t think Norris would have been able to hold off Verstappen. Russell potentially could have held him for longer though there were a lot of laps left so hard to know if he’d have kept him behind until the end.

      When Verstappen called for a red, it would obviously have been a benefit to him. Russell who had already pitted however was also saying the same thing and several other drivers too. Colapinto’s crash made a decision for them but it may have been red flagged anyway.
   2. 

      The Dolphins
      8th November 2024, 14:32

      It was Max’s day; like in 2016 he showed that in the rain in Barcelona he’s capable of putting on a clinic. Would he have passed Russell and Norris on track? It’s quite likely he would have at least passed one of them simply because he had pace and would have been able to put pressure on any driver in front and force them into making an error. With how everything else unfolded and without the benefit of the red flag tyre change Max was on course for a podium, which starting from 17th is sill a feat so hats off to him for that drive.
      1. 

         Edvaldo
         8th November 2024, 14:54

         Norris had plenty of pace too, and that’s what makes this even more embarrassing for him. When he cleared Russell, he opened a 3-second gap in a lap and a half, so, had he not bottled yet another start, i believe he was going for an easy win, with the red flag and everything. What he needed was to be clear of traffic, which he only was for a couple of laps, and his inability to clear off other cars also took a toll on his race.
      2. 

         Esploratore (@esploratore1)
         10th November 2024, 0:53

         It didn’t rain in barcelona in 2016, but he certainly drove well in that dry race, as well as the occasions where it actually rained, every time it rained he overtook rosberg who had a dominant mercedes, like silverstone and brazil, until either the track dried out or the team took a tyre gamble that didn’t work.
   3. 

      BMW P85 V10
      8th November 2024, 20:26

      You cant blame the Red Flag for Max’ win and meanwhile ignore that Norris would have ended outside of the points any way if he was penalized for the infringements he had during the race.
      -Aborted start infringement.
      -Leaving the track and gaining an advantage.
      -Unsafe return on track.
      The first was rapidly called to be investigated after the race at which moment you already knew the stewards would find an excuse for Norris not to be penalized.
      The other two were simply not even under investigation.
      Max took a calculated risk by staying out, and possibly be the one to crash and cause the Red Flag. You can call it luck, but the Norris was the real lucky one.
   4. 

      Mayrton
      10th November 2024, 13:54

      Probably just as easily as with Piastri. It would have been easy for him given the difference in skill level in the wet.
5. 

   Edvaldo
   8th November 2024, 13:09

   The fact that he did win like that does not cancel his antics in the previous 2 races.
   In fact the red flag spared us from a 3rd race in a row in which he would have to battle Norris and i was curious to see how that would unfold.

   That said, this race was a statement of who deserves to win this championship. With a season as weak as this has been, Norris should only be the WDC in case Max had to miss out on some races, at least four. As we know now, winning a race is a task so difficult to ask of him that Max can sit out of these final three. Norris isn’t winning all three. Maybe not even one.
   1. 

      Esploratore (@esploratore1)
      9th November 2024, 5:25

      Indeed, even in case of injury for the last 3 races for verstappen I think he has good chances on the title, as norris would need an average of 20,66 points per race, obviously the presence of a sprint helps.
6. 

   Michael (@freelittlebirds)
   8th November 2024, 13:09

   Hmm, I didn’t know they were planning on silencing people. That may have been the agenda then.

   I’m beginning to wonder if stacking the deck is the best way to always play poker. Clearly, it has worked in sports and outside sports. I still don’t believe that a bullet can graze an ear and there’d be no blood on any white shirt and the blood would have the viscosity of ketchup and not run down in all images. I’ve cut myself many times shaving and the smallest amount drips like a faucet.

   I’m not sure I’m cut for today’s world – I’d show up with a knife or worse my fists to a laser guided drone fight in today’s world :-)

   The Jets are going to have their day today.

   Well, not if the Sharks take all of you out long before the showdown.
7. 

   An Sionnach
   8th November 2024, 17:48

   GP might not have expected how a drive like this would make some of Max’s critics even more vexed. Every rule that allows Max to win must be changed. When Max wins with those rules too, they’ll want them changed again!
   1. 

      Michael (@freelittlebirds)
      8th November 2024, 18:15

      I think you’re missing the point of Verstappen’s critics. I think the majority of his critics applauded last weekend’s performance which shows their class. If only Max had any class, he’d probably have fewer critics.

      Character goes a long way.
      1. 

         An Sionnach
         8th November 2024, 19:26

         I’m not missing the point. Unlike Johnny Herbert and Max’s critics, I do not know what someone’s intent is, so for the move he got the second penalty in Mexico for, I would say it’s at best a clumsy, ill-timed move; and at worst a deliberate attempt to take Lando out. There is a range of possibilities and I don’t think wanting to crash into Lando is one of them. There is precedent for disqualification of a driver from a whole season for this. His other moves were marginal. Other than the first one in Mexico they were within the rules. In Texas he barely went off circuit. Objectively, Max has made one move that was wide of the mark and shouldn’t have even been tried. The others were justifiably on. Do you know how difficult it is to calculate all of these things as you do them at these speeds? Since you cannot know the outcome when it will be close to the margin, should he have just yielded in each case?

         This is why the critics are wrong. As I have said before, I have agreed with the decisions of the Stewards and the penalties awarded. The note about intent from Herbert was not on at all. The critics who start with an assumption that Max is a dirty driver will never be cured of it. Going on the evidence of this year… there is no evidence of this – only sour grapes.
         1. 

            Michael (@freelittlebirds)
            8th November 2024, 20:21

            There’s really no way to reply to this – adding sour grapes at the end shows that your character is in alignment with Max.

            There are many good people who will literally die to save a person they don’t know.

            On the other hand, there are people that can inflict such unimaginable harm to a group of unarmed babies, children, mothers and elderly people. Last week a politician apologized for such an act which is why I’m using it as an example. Sadly it was not a single incident, it happened in 127 villages over a fairly short period of time.

            So as you can imagine drivers will be all over the spectrum. You will have the good and the bad drivers. Obviously, you support Max and believe he’s both good-natured and a good driver.

            If you want to become philosophical there’s technically no good or bad. An action is simply an action.
            We (people) assign a rating to an action that defines it as good or bad based on our morality. That also applies to racing with the stewards and rules.

            I think anyone who follows this sport and has a good understanding of the rules would strongly disagree with you and with the stewards’ decisions as they were too lenient on Max and did not apply the same penalties as they did to other drivers in the same races.

            People and drivers complain that the rules do NOT apply to Max.
   2. 

      Grapmg
      8th November 2024, 18:33

      When they introduced the Max rule: moving under braking, the first one who benefitted was Max while Vettel was penalized. When they introduced the new rules after Spa 2021 after they awarded half points, the first one who benefitted was Max with full points in Japan 2022. But again the rules had to be changed. FLP rule have to change. SC restart “stay alongside” rule has to change. When they change the driver guidelines next year I’m sure Max is going to send it round the outside, nobody who defends the inside can leave a cars width when you defend at full speed at the apex. I’m looking forward to that moment.
      1. 

         Kata
         10th November 2024, 9:46

         That’s just it, Max knows the rules and tries to use them in his benefit. And when they change them he again adapts and tries to get the best get the best out of it.

         That makes him more complete than some others on the grid.
8. 

   baasbas
   8th November 2024, 18:36

   @Keith
   Repeating he blamed Gasly? Just slide that in there.. Sure.
9. 

   Haas Khan (@haas918)
   9th November 2024, 12:43

   That was a stunning performance by him. He proved to everyone that he is the best driver in F1 at the moment.
   1. 

      Esploratore (@esploratore1)
      10th November 2024, 0:57

      Not that there was much doubt even before this, with equal performance across the year by him and norris I think norris should be ahead a bit now, say 20 points, with a good chance on winning the title; instead it’s verstappen who has 3x that gap and title basically guaranteed.

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