Norris’s 12 errors which cost him far more than his 62-point deficit to Verstappen

100 comments on “Norris’s 12 errors which cost him far more than his 62-point deficit to Verstappen”

1. 

   Jere (@jerejj)
   14th November 2024, 7:47

   Max’s victory-costing DNF in Melbourne should also be considered as luck on side.
   1. 

      MacLeod (@macleod)
      14th November 2024, 8:02

      @jerejj Yes you can call that luck but in motorsports it was a error of the mechanics and the new brake brand pads. Without the wrong place brake pad Max would theoretic win but that is Motor sport.
      1. 

         Jere (@jerejj)
         14th November 2024, 11:02

         True
      2. 

         Esploratore (@esploratore1)
         14th November 2024, 18:20

         Mmm, I suppose it’s comparable to alonso’s wheel problem in hungary 2006, I consider it bad luck for alonso but was actually a mistake by the mechanics.

         I actually wasn’t aware till now that verstappen’s problem was related to a mistake of the team.
         1. 

            MacLeod (@macleod)
            15th November 2024, 8:04

            @esploratore1 everyone thinks it was the illegal brake system … but it seems a brake pad was reversed placed never thought that was possible but with F1 teams all parts are separate and has to be assembled to make a brake unit. Because they used a new manufacturer for brake pads this year it was possible to reverse it..

            That is why there was messages that the manufacturer said there was nothing wrong with their brakepad…
   2. 

      SPArtacus
      14th November 2024, 23:10

      The funniest part is that Norris has by far the most F1 Drive of the Day awards (I think it’s 7 or something) and I believe Brazil was only Max’s first DOTD (assuming he won it and not EO – I didn’t actually see it). And besides Singapore, I believe he had all or most of those by July. It’s a good example of how expectations and commentator narratives shape opinion. That and obviously there are a lot more British F1 fans than Dutch F1 fans.
      1. 

         NM
         15th November 2024, 6:26

         to be fair, Verstappen won it often till 2022, people don’t like domination and vote for other drivers.
   3. 

      Fabien Heitz
      15th November 2024, 19:16

      Or Hamilton’s DNF in Malaysia in 2016, effectively lucking Rosberg to the championship
2. 

   Unicron (@unicron2002)
   14th November 2024, 7:56

   British driver tries in vain to mount a challenge against a driver who is performing at a different level through much of the season, and let’s face it it’s more of a struggle to secure runner up spot in the end.

   2001, Coulthard in a McLaren
   2011, Button in a McLaren
   2013, Hamilton in a Mercedes
   2024, Norris in a McLaren (presuming he can even hold on to the runner up spot…)
   1. 

      Frank
      14th November 2024, 9:06

      Coulthard was absolutely talked up as a title contender in the beginning of the 2001 season, but your other examples are strange picks.

      Button 2011 was outscored by Vettel in the first 9 out of 10 races and was never in title contention, nor was he considered to be in title contention. He drove a very good season and did well to collect some victories and outscore Hamilton.

      Hamilton 2013 is even more out of place in your list. He finished fourth in a car that was not considered a title contender (or even a future title contender) at all.
      1. 

         Unicron (@unicron2002)
         14th November 2024, 11:06

         Oops, I should have done some basic fact checking on the 2013 clanger!

         My point that git missed in translation was, none of them mounted a serious challenge to the championship leader, like Norris this year.

         I’m British to the core. Ingerlaaaand!
   2. 

      Moshambles (@moshambles)
      14th November 2024, 9:38

      What a bizarre list
   3. 

      Moshambles (@moshambles)
      14th November 2024, 9:39

      Is this anti-British sentiment?
      1. 

         slowmo (@slowmo)
         14th November 2024, 12:41

         yes, aka xenophobic
         1. 

            Osnola
            14th November 2024, 14:50

            Interesting:

            I’m British to the core. Ingerlaaaand!
      2. 

         Esploratore (@esploratore1)
         14th November 2024, 18:18

         Well, I read there was a lot of british bias, so someone has to balance it out, no?
   4. 

      SPArtacus
      14th November 2024, 23:17

      Two of Vettel’s WDCs, 2010 and 2012, were just barely squeaked out despite being in by far the best car against FA who was in often the 4th or 5th fastest car on the grid with small stretches where it was the 2nd or 3rd fastest on the grid. That + Grosjean wiping out all his WDC competitors who were starting on the front row while he started in last.
      1. 

         wsrgo (@wsrgo)
         15th November 2024, 3:06

         Vettel lost three race wins in 2010 due to reliability issues. Without those, that season is not even a contest. Even Webber had a pretty bulletproof car that year.
         1. 

            SPArtacus
            15th November 2024, 13:48

            You’re blithely ignoring multiple “inconvenient” facts: a) FA had a lot of points lost due to issues beyond his control too and b) Vettel’s car wouldn’t have been nearly as dominant without the stressful packaging it was using. Newey’s cars have a history of trading reliability for extreme packaging including engine and transmission angles that make the cars as dominant as they are. So, that’s a built-in price.
3. 

   MacLeod (@macleod)
   14th November 2024, 7:59

   Austria when he got the flat tyre he drove too fast back to the pit destroying his floor when Max preserve his floor to salve points that is clearly Lando mistake …
4. 

   GeeMac (@geemac)
   14th November 2024, 8:16

   Norris is a popular driver, so I am choosing my words very carefully: Despite McLaren having had arguably the quickest car since Miami, there was never a true fight for the drivers championship this season. Norris simply never picked up points at a rate which suggested he was ever going to catch Verstappen. I simply refused to get my hopes up at any point because Norris never gave us any more than fleeting evidence that he could score heavily enough consistently enough to really pressure Verstappen, and I’m glad I did so because my disappointment would have been immense at this point in the season had I done so.
   1. 

      Frank
      14th November 2024, 8:54

      Norris simply never picked up points at a rate which suggested he was ever going to catch Verstappen.

      Exactly this. The only moment I started doubting a Verstappen WDC was after Norris recovered from his Q1 exit in Baku. But even then, I suspected a single wet race would crush all hopes of a realistic title fight.
      1. 

         Esploratore (@esploratore1)
         14th November 2024, 18:24

         Thing is norris is actually good driving in the wet, but the decisions he and the team make in those conditions always end up ruining his races.
         1. 

            MacLeod (@macleod)
            15th November 2024, 8:11

            @esploratore1 Normal he can handle rain very well but to a certain niveau of water.
            Look at Qualify Lando went very well he start to have problems when it rained much harder and when the rain was so much he ask to be pitted while others just went on.
            This kind of rain doesn’t happen a lot Brasil 2016, Spa 2021, Zandvoort 2023 and Brasil 2024.
            There were others but these were so I saw difference between drivers.
   2. 

      Moshambles (@moshambles)
      14th November 2024, 9:41

      I think most people realized this, but were holding out hope for a fight at the end. Hopefully next year we get more a championship battle.
   3. 

      José Lopes da Silva
      14th November 2024, 15:44

      There are several “templates” of championship season-long title fights in Formula One and motorsport. It’s different when two drivers fight for the title being team mates of different teams. It’s different when you have three drivers realistically fighting, like it happened in 1986 and 2007. And it’s also relatively frequent to have a driver walking away with it , either from the very beginning 2004 or a little bit later like 2013.

      2024 is somehow similar to 2009 and it’s an atypical template. A driver starts very strongly but looses the mechanical advantage mid-season, and is forced to manage his previous points lead. If no rival is able to mount a real challenge, we end up with a tense chase, and interesting because, unlike 2023 or 2015, there are serious doubts about what’s going to happen. Even if it’s not a “fight for the title”.

      1991 could have turned into something like this if Mansell and Williams made even more mistakes and if Prost could get his hands in a couple of wins. And, also, if McLaren wasn’t suffering it’s own illness of mechanical failures cured from Hungary onwards.
      1. 

         Esploratore (@esploratore1)
         14th November 2024, 18:28

         Mmm, 3 drivers fighting also happened in 2003: schumacher, raikkonen, montoya; montoya only ended up being mathematically out of contention after the penultimate race (indianapolis in the wet) ended.
         1. 

            SPArtacus
            14th November 2024, 23:26

            Kimi would have walked away with that WDC + two more had his Newey cars been even marginally reliable.

            JPM arguably should have won the 2003 WDC, but a combination of mechanical DNFs and his incredibly frustrating habit of being overly aggressive and behaving like the exact opposite of Prost (I.E., always driving at 10/10ths even when made it no sense and making crazy moves he must have known wouldn’t have come off).

            But I guess he wouldn’t have been one of the most exciting drivers in F1 history had he not been like that. I mean, the guy was such a hot head that he literally signed for McLaren with 1.5 years left on his Williams contract less than 24 hours after the 2003 French GP because he thought the team intentionally handed Ralf the win.
         2. 

            José Lopes da Silva
            15th November 2024, 14:28

            Yes, 2003 is also a three-way – and from three different teams, instead of the-two-of-the-best-car-and-the-top-driver-of-the-second-best, which is even more odd!
5. 

   MichaelN
   14th November 2024, 9:10

   While I agree with the basic premise that Norris likely threw away this title through a combination of errors, slow strategic thinking, bad teamwork, and poor first lap skill, there’s a tiny bit of “yeah but Piastri” in here that casts some doubt about how fast that McLaren really was throughout the season.

   But still, it’s also good to remember that Sainz usually had the upper hand over Norris while they were teammates. Maybe Norris, for all the hype he got in previous seasons when paired with a flailing Ricciardo, isn’t quite at that A-lister level.
   1. 

      SPArtacus
      14th November 2024, 23:36

      I know this will upset many, but Piastri has definitively shown he’ll never be an elite driver. If he’s lucky and makes a lot of progress, he’ll be a Sainz level driver. He’s a great example of how most F1 fans and media judge drivers one weekend at a time without looking at the details. Go back and look at the comments from the summer. You’ve got dozens of people saying it’s only a matter of time before OP would be McLaren’s #1.

      Norris has exceptional ultimate one-lap pace (both in quali and in the race). He’s like Leclerc and a bit like Montoya (rare speed with a talent for throwing it all away), but for completely different reasons to JPM.
6. 

   Matthijs (@matthijs)
   14th November 2024, 9:20

   This year the championship will go to Verstappen, and deservedly so. Next year is a different matter, I expect either a McLaren or Ferrari driver to win the championship.
   1. 

      Moi
      14th November 2024, 12:18

      I’m sort of rooting for Ferrari to have the fastest car, but not by too much.

      I still want the Max vs Leclerc battle we were robbed of in 2022 by Ferrari :)
   2. 

      Dex
      14th November 2024, 15:32

      Yeah, but at least this year we can say that the champion is also the best driver on the grid. I hope we won’t have a lucky guy as a new champ next year. So I will hope to either see Verstappen as a champion again, or Norris and others stepping up their game. Having a Button-like champion is not very satisfying, as fun as it can be; at least not for me.
      What I’m saying is, I hope the car won’t be the only deciding factor. With Verstappen and Hamilton it wasn’t the case. At the moment, Norris is a new Rosberg at best. Leclerc shows more promise perhaps, with some really impressive races. But I rate them both a class or two below Verstappen, which is a bit sad. When you have a Senna, you need a Prost too.
      1. 

         Esploratore (@esploratore1)
         14th November 2024, 18:48

         The champion was the best driver on the grid in the given season, as far as I see, in 2024, 2023, 2022, 2021, probably not in 2020, as I believe verstappen had a superb season in that red bull that couldn’t compete with merc, so have to go back 4 years for that not to happen.
      2. 

         Esploratore (@esploratore1)
         14th November 2024, 18:49

         Yes, leclerc looks better than norris and they’re not verstappen level in terms of consistency, and probably won’t be.
         1. 

            SPArtacus
            14th November 2024, 23:53

            Leclerc’s consistency, usually a chink in his armor, has been amazing this season. However, he’s never been considered in the fight this season. So, since we know he can fall apart under pressure, we’ll have to wait and see if he can do that over an entire season. I’ll be genuinely shocked if Ferrari and McLaren don’t start next with a sizable pace advantage over RBR.

            BTW, @Keith, this is a fantastic piece. I’d love to see more articles like this which look at driver’s/team’s/designer’s race, career, etc. and really get under the hood and firmly establishes why they ended up where they did for good or ill. It’s like the difference between a case built on forensic evidence and a case built on hearsay.
7. 

   Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
   14th November 2024, 9:26

   Having a fast car isn’t the only requirement to win a championship, being absolutely on it 95% of the time is just as important. That’s how titles are fought. I feel like Norris got thrown into a battle he wasn’t really ready for. Maybe this year should’ve only been his first steps into regular race wins to mount a challenge later on. But then again, you never know when your chance is going to be, and this could well be his only ever chance of even being in the discussion for a title. So, yeah, for a driver of his experience (he’s 25 but he has 125 races under his belt), he should’ve performed… well, let’s say “tidier”, “more intelligently”, not better.
8. 

   Erwin (@ebogaard)
   14th November 2024, 9:43

   Aren’t there any cases where Norris picked up more points than could reasonably be expected? If I think back about the races, I can’t think of any, but I’m not the expert! Maybe where he finished far in front of Piastri, like Spain or Zandvoort.
   It would be fair to mention those.

   And maybe a second article is interesting as well: where Verstappen lost or won points compared to where he reasonably was expected to finish.
   That way we can compare both drivers’ seasons more completely (even while the metric “reasonably was expected to finish” is quite subjective).
9. 

   Dan Rooke (@geekzilla9000)
   14th November 2024, 9:51

   As a McLaren fan and someone who has screamed at the screen to cheer Norris on, I’ve been willing him with every fibre of my being to win the championship this year and when the championship battle seemed to fall away it felt like I (and the rest of us) was robbed of a great close championship duel.

   However, I have to admit that Max deserves it more. He’s pushed that car to levels only a God-tier driver can do. Yes, there have been moments of naughtiness but again, he was utilising the rules, using them to his advantage. He’s a driver who uses his head and analyses everyone else’s race while he’s on track (same as Alonso and Hamilton). I’m sure he’ll win the Driver’s title at Vegas, and I’ll raise a drink to him.

   …..But next year could get spicy. 2025 could be an absolute vintage year for F1 – and then it’s all change for 2026! For all the talk of how boring F1 is getting, that really cannot be said at the moment.
10. 

    Mayrton
    14th November 2024, 10:15

    Nice analysis. I think at the moment Max and Lando are not in the same league or racing category and that simply seals the deal despite the car deficit Max has had for the majority of the season. Lando will only be able to beat Max over the course of a season if his car has a similar advantage as Mercedes enjoyed 2014-2021.
11. 

    Alberto
    14th November 2024, 10:19

    Hamilton couldn’t come back from a smaller deficit to his teammate from a similar point of the season with the quickest car on the grid in 2016. I think the title pursuit that everyone put on Norris was a little too optimistic on hindsight. Especially given his experience in title contention vs Verstappen who is a great and experienced driver. People always say Mclaren is the fastest car on the grid which I agree on most tracks but Redbull is not a slow car by any means and the deficit between teams are the smallest margins it has ever been in years. Next year will be interesting if Ferrari and Mclaren make a good start to the season.
    1. 

       Frank
       14th November 2024, 13:37

       Hamilton couldn’t come back from a smaller deficit to his teammate from a similar point of the season with the quickest car on the grid in 2016.

       But his team mate was also driving that fastest car…

       In fact, I reckon Hamilton would have won that title if Mercedes had been less dominant.
       1. 

          Esploratore (@esploratore1)
          14th November 2024, 18:52

          Yes, true, it would’ve given other drivers the opportunity to beat rosberg and hamilton’s performance would’ve had more of an impact, a race like brazil there’s no way rosberg would’ve come 2nd without a dominant car.
          1. 

             MacLeod (@macleod)
             15th November 2024, 8:19

             Actually if Max didn’t pit on the wrong time Max would be 2nd and Nico 3th I wonder would that have make a difference?
12. 

    tielemst
    14th November 2024, 10:28

    I think not all mistakes on strategy can’t be wholly put on the pitwall/team management. This is also on Lando’s judgement in the car so the missed points are partially on him. Especially the call to come in during the VSC in Brazil is one that Russel (although overruled by his team), Verstappen and Ocon clearly judged better from within the car. There’s no reason that Lando couldn’t have come to the same conclusion than those drivers.
13. 

    Stephen Taylor
    14th November 2024, 10:38

    I wish people would stop blaming Lando for all of his bad starts . The McLaren team has said countless times that his car has hadstart software issues . Maybe he could have done in Austin and Brazil but if thee has been a software glitch affecting some of his starts this year which the team says there have . I kind of feel the team should have started imposing team orders in Monza tbh . It was a nonsense to allow Lando to fight Oscar . The waay the team has handled both drivers has been very very poor . The fact Stella came out and said after Brazil that the team never really . Also I disagree with Keith’s analysis of Brazil . I think Verstappen would have won regardless once the full Safety Car came out tbh though Lando did cost himself a podium finish there with bad strategy calls and poor racecraft. Also I really don’t like this kind of obsseive microanlalysis . It is not a realistic expection for anybody to expect Norris to beat a team mate of Piastiri’s calibre 100% time . So in man ways the microanalytical to forage for every single point that Norris has dropped this season makes the this analysis unrealistic in the sense that it dreams up a scenario of perfection that was never likel to happen . The kind of season Max had in 2023 probably comes once in a career Yes Norris could have done things better and scored more points to to keep himself in WDC contention but the level of microanalysis Mr Collantine is doing on same topic is becoming grossly unfair.
    1. 

       [email protected]
       14th November 2024, 21:12

       Even with a software issue there’s a lot to learn for Norris. He had plenty of starts were he had good initial getaways, but failed to keep the competition behind because of poor positioning of the car or focusing on just one opponent.
    2. 

       dutchtreat (@dutchtreat)
       14th November 2024, 23:41

       Stephen,
       I completely disagree with you to critize Keith. I don’t read most of it either because it is so super analytical. Keith owns this website, goes out of his way to be one of the finest F1 sites on the internet and most people I assume read it for free. If you don’t like it don’t read it but don’t critize him for expressing his opinion and journalistic skills.
       1. 

          Stephen Taylor
          15th November 2024, 9:30

          This article is not journalism it is filler
    3. 

       SPArtacus
       15th November 2024, 0:09

       You might have a point if Lando was being out dragged to the first corner, but that’s not how he lost the lead the majority of the time. It would have been very obvious if he was having Mark Webber like start issues. Was Piastri constantly losing places at the start too? If not

       I look at 95% of the stories on multiple sites and I can’t remember McLaren claiming a fundamental flaw in their launch system once. I vaguely recall the team once saying the launch setup was a sub-optimal launch for a particular round. Maybe maybe they tried to ease the pressure on him once or twice by covering for him, but asserting McLaren claimed his poor starts were down to software “countless times” is gross hyperbole. Heck, I can’t even recall a Lando fan using the start system as an excuse.
       1. 

          Stephen Taylor
          15th November 2024, 9:34

          It is not hyperbole it’s accurate . The article you are referring to basically said Lando wasn’t to blame for losing places immediately of the start line
          1. 

             SPArtacus
             15th November 2024, 13:52

             You said “countless times.” Cite all these articles and races that excuse more than one sub-optimal start. He didn’t have a single start in which he just bogged down. He lost almost every lead due to poor race craft. There’s no way around it. Instead of attacking the author, you should be looking at Lando with some semblance of objectivity.
             1. 

                Stephen Taylor
                18th November 2024, 11:52

                Hmmm the the team said after Zandvoort that many of the case where Lando was outdragged off the the line were not his fault Only in Austin and Monza did poor lap 1 racecraft come into into it. I find it strange you accuse me of a lack of objectivity when i’m only pointing out what was told in on autosport.com a few months ago. Mr Collantine is showing more of a lack of objectivity than me by continuing to ignore this factor.
14. 

    Craig
    14th November 2024, 10:44

    As much as I do want to see Norris win I don’t think it was ever likely to happen as Verstappen would have needed a run of extremely bad luck, which simply isn’t happening. Over the first half of the season Verstappen enjoyed an advantage that meant him not winning was an exception rather then the rule and gave him an enormous lead. Since Austria him winning has become the exception but he’s still been around 2nd to 6th ever since with no one stringing together a series of wins, Norris’ results in the same period may have been slightly better but are still ultimately comparable.
15. 

    RH
    14th November 2024, 10:58

    If Red Bull get their car even back to competent levels next year, it’s so joever for others.

    Also people seem to misinterpret 4 races of being dominant and never being outright quickest since then as first half or first third of this season being dominant lol. Aftwrall coping mechanism I suspect.

    Verstappen pulling off miracles as usual. Other drivers showing their incompetence except for Leclerc who has been outstanding this year.

    Roll on 2025. 2024 was great since it was a real drivers win for Verstappen like 2021.
    1. 

       Ben
       14th November 2024, 13:07

       RedBull had an absolute rocket ship in the first 6 races.

       Bahrain
       Saudi
       Australia – double DNF but 1&3 on the grid
       Japan
       China
       Miami – Max was unlucky with the safety car

       Emilia-Romagna – Still fastest, but others started to close the gap.

       Monaco is the first time in the season where they were considered as off the pace.

       Canada, Spain, Austria – Max had the best car but Mclaren were now much closer.

       Silverstone – The RedBull car and team came good in the race but I’ll admit they weren’t fastest on raw pace here in different weather conditions.

       Hungry – An off weekend from Max but he was less than 0.1 off pole, so still had an extremely quick car.

       Spa – Max on pole by a large gap. The penalty and lack of overtaking hurt him here rather than the actual pace of the car.

       Netherlands – Quick, but Mclaren/Norris were faster on race pace.

       Italy, Azerbaijan, Singapore, USA, Mexico – These are the only 5 races which stand out where Max didn’t have the best car or an extremely close second-best car. Azerbaijan he was outclassed by Perez, which is extremely strange too, so I don’t know if we can blame RedBull here.

       Take nothing away from Max. He’s won the Championship this year because he’s been the most consistent. He’s a great talent and every driver in history has won a Championship in a car which has clearly been the best at many races per season.

       But at least be realistic. Don’t act like he’s dragging a Haas or Alpine to a Championship. We’ve seen in those 5 races when he hasn’t had the best car he finishes about where he’s expected to, just like any other top driver does.
       1. 

          Alonslow
          14th November 2024, 15:25

          I disagree a bit with the rocket ship to just fast timeline, I see Miami as the first time Red Bull was not on 2023 level, Max took pole but only by around 0.1, Checo had his first weekend of being far from Max and would only keep getting worse and sure Lando was lucky but if it was the 2023 rocket ship then Max would have easily pass him, yet he never could and Lando even put a nice gap between.

          Compare that to the previous race in which Max got pole by 0.3 faster than Checo who was 0.16 faster than 3rd place Alonso, Max went from half a second faster to just a 0.1, and Checo had enough car to stay on the podium, his last podium.

          So I say Miami is the first time when Red Bull was not miles away the fastest, certainly joint fastest in that race with Mclaren, same in Imola (only pole by 0.074, won only by 0.725) in which we saw the first time of the Mclaren late race pace and the start of Checo fighting cars he shouldn’t.

          Monaco, Silverstone, Netherlands, Monza, Baku, Singapore, COTA, Mexico these are all races where Red Bull is at most 2nd best or 3rd best, I mean sure Red Bull was not a Hass but c’mon Zandvoort gets a ‘Quick, but Mclaren/Norris were faster on race pace’ review, seriously? Lando was on pole by 0.356s and ended the race 22 seconds ahead, by that same standards in the first 6 races the Red Bull was not really all that rocket ship, just quicker on the race pace.

          There is just one exception in the entire season post Miami where Red Bull looked the fastest, Spa and Austria, and even in Austria I found Red Bull to be exposed, very confortable pole position sure but Max was pressured in the sprint and he couldn’t shake Lando in the grand prix, it certainly wasn’t the rocket from the early season.

          So sure Max isn’t dragging a Sauber to the championship but is certainly dragging the at most 2nd best car and sometimes 3rd best car to it and let’s be real without the rain in Brazil Max was never gonna win again this season and I really don’t see him winning any of the last 3 races either.

          This year is proof of Max consistency, when he had the fastest or joint fastest car he either won or put it second, most of them wins, Lando has not been able to do the same.
       2. 

          PeteB (@peteb)
          14th November 2024, 16:48

          Just like any other top driver does? Who else has been doing that this year? Maybe Leclerc? Not sure if I can think of any others…..

          If Lando finished where he was expected to with any vague sense of consistency, we’d be in for an exciting end to the Championship but instead, there’s a 62 point gap with 3 races left.
          1. 

             Ben
             14th November 2024, 21:53

             What? Finishing in the top 5 in the 2nd best car. Almost every driver has this year. Even Perez managed it a few times and he’s far from great. I think you’ve misunderstood my point……………..
       3. 

          SPArtacus
          15th November 2024, 0:15

          @Ben

          Even by your own claim (the number of races you assert the RBR was the fastest), that’s all of 25% of the season. Let’s be overly generous and say Ferrari had the best car for 20% of the GPs. That would mean Lando had the best car 55% of the season and is still nowhere close to Max. There’s no way to spin Lando’s season as anything other than a major under performance.
          1. 

             Ben
             15th November 2024, 9:40

             @SPArtacus

             I’m not trying to spin anything. Lando isn’t WDC material. Simple. I’ve been saying all season there’s zero championship battle and not to buy into the false hype. My point had absolutely nothing to do with Lando.

             It was a reply to someone claiming Max has been “pulling off miracles as usual”. Which I don’t see as true. Look, I’ve said he’s a fantastic driver, but lets not over hype this either!

             The Redbull was
             • Easily fastest for at least 6 events this year
             • Slightly faster, joint fastest or a very close 2nd fastest for another 7-8 events
             • 3rd fastest at worst for the remaining events

             I literally said “take nothing away from Max” and praised his consistency. But he’s won races when he’s been fastest and come home P3-P6 when he’s been in the 2nd or 3rd best car. While that’s impressive consistency I just don’t see it as performing miracles.
       4. 

          RH
          15th November 2024, 17:27

          I really dont think its worth replying to someone who legitimately thinks RB were fastest at Imola and Spain. That shows a basic lack of understanding of the sport.

          I’ll suggest visiting f1tempo to see telemetry lap by lap. You can learn a thing or two.
          1. 

             FS005
             26th November 2024, 21:46

             What Perez’s telemetry or only the last stint of the race after Lando has a tyre offset.

             Telemetry shows that Redbull was the fastest car in qualifying and 2/3 stints of the race.
16. 

    Nicola
    14th November 2024, 11:08

    I think Lando and McLaren were not prepared to be thrown into a title fight and haven’t adapted as it has progressed. Go back to when McLaren got the new wind tunnel etc they said 2025 was the most realistic for title challenges.

    Both McLaren and Lando will have learned tremendously for this season. Can’t wait to see what 2025 brings.
17. 

    Grapmg
    14th November 2024, 14:10

    Italian GP:

    “Norris paid a heavy price for letting Piastri pass him for the lead”

    I dont think he let him pass.

    Austria: so although Norris lost at least 18 points in this collision. Although he lost 18 points Max also lost points there as he finished 5th and lost “at least” 8 points in the WDC.

    Miami:

    Norris was already one the way to at least second place in his upgraded McLaren when the Safety Car intervened in his favour.

    . What if Norrris wins this title with a few points difference? Yet another controversial SC “robbed” WDC. I guess they already sacked the RD.
18. 

    Leo B
    14th November 2024, 14:39

    Norris’s number 1 fault is his inability to bide his time. He must pass Max immediately. On the corner where Max may well drive him a little off track on the first attempt. He can’t just let that go and follow, and in a faster car, pass Max more easily on the straight with DRS.
19. 

    Raymond
    14th November 2024, 16:00

    For me personally, the most damning stat of all is that if you eliminate Brazil and all races pre-Miami, Norris still isn’t leading.
    1. 

       Esploratore (@esploratore1)
       14th November 2024, 19:02

       This is a very good point, there’s no doubt he didn’t make the best of his package, but I’m surprised to hear this.
    2. 

       SPArtacus
       15th November 2024, 0:19

       +1,000

       I think going into Mexico, Max still had the same points gap as after the Miami race.
       1. 

          F1statsfan (@f1statsfan)
          15th November 2024, 9:51

          Points gap after Miami was 53 points
          After Austin it was 57 points – in Austin it increased from 52 to 57 points
          In Mexico Lando gained 10 points so the gap was then 47 points
          – Lando’s best result against Max all season with exception of Australia but that was due to Max mechanical DNF
          In Brazil Lando lost 15 points (+3 & -18) and the change on championship with gap increasing to 62 points.
    3. 

       F1statsfan (@f1statsfan)
       15th November 2024, 10:00

       I agree with the sentiment although your statement it is actually correct.
       “if you eliminate Brazil and all races pre-Miami, Norris still isn’t leading”

       “if you eliminate Brazil” that is race #21
       “all races pre-Miami” that are races #1 to #5 and possibly Miami Sprint
       So that is effectively Miami (race #6) – Mexico (race #20).

       Max scored 252 points in those 15 races – 244 if you exclude Miami Sprint
       Lando scored 257 points in those 15 races – 257 if you exclude Miami Sprint

       With or without Miami sprint Lando would be leading although barely and still pretty damning for Lando and/or very laudatory for Max if you consider that the McLaren was the fastest in most of those races and in some at worst 2nd fastest while at the same time the Red Bull was at best the 2nd fastest and in some maybe even 4th fastest.
       1. 

          F1statsfan (@f1statsfan)
          15th November 2024, 10:01

          Correction – PLEASE implement edit option for few minutes after you post
          “I agree with the sentiment although your statement it is actually NOT correct.”
20. 

    Esploratore (@esploratore1)
    14th November 2024, 16:08

    I don’t understand how 29 seconds aren’t considered enough to pit and change tyres in singapore, usually 20 are enough on other tracks.
    1. 

       Raymond
       14th November 2024, 18:52

       1 — It’s a very long and slow pitlane
       2 — the penultimate corner is usually this huge 6th gear deal but you have to slow down and take a much tighter inlap line inside of the kerb. So even there you lose a lot of time.
       3 — the exit of the pits feeds very tight into T3; whereas you have a more open run into T3 from T2. You lose some time all the way down to T5 given your lower apex speed of T3.

       It’s generally accepted to be around 26-30 seconds in Singapore
       1. 

          Esploratore (@esploratore1)
          14th November 2024, 19:05

          Wow, that’s a lot indeed, though with 26 sec he could’ve done it, he had 29 sec at one point and as the article says he made some mistake that cost him some time; I’m guessing they didn’t want to risk it given how hard it is to overtake at singapore.
21. 

    Jockey Ewing
    14th November 2024, 16:29

    Luck: he has not been able to sign to Mercedes, because SLH announced his departure right after he and Piastri renewed to McLaren. Yet, he has found himself in a winning car and started to win races. (At the start of the season McLaren looked like their usual themselves from the last 15-20 years, with sporadic success. At least those who were not understanding his potential have lost their boring hasnotevenwonaraceyet argument).

    Team: The team issued quite many team orders to support him. Maybe even too much for some’s taste – the amount was at about ok for me. As there are no other teams to go by now (*), I would not blame the team. They could not handle Piastri as a doormat – maybe he improves slower than some of the bests ever, but maybe his ceiling will be higher than that of Norris.
    (*) Image, or perception of his value wise, this season maybe moved Norris a bit forward, but surely have not shown him as someone who would be capable to dominate – or him being a multiple times champion material is getting more and more doubtful by now… and that is what are teams looking for.

    McLaren as a team, could consider hiring someone who does the PR and communications job for them, and teaches or trains many of the team members in these fields, because the handling of many situations looked and felt instead of something natural or smooth. I would say they were even transparent (readable in a bad sense) sometimes. For example ZB is a bean counter not a spokesperson, and that is very noticeable.

    Himself: too much self blame does not work for many. If it works for him, maybe he should blame himself a bit, but not too much. In short, that is for sour people, and many professionals have a regret-nothing attitude.

    Now, it will be interesting to see, whether he or the team takes the engine penalty, as he has not taken a new engine yet. If he takes it, beating Max for the title will be a ship what sails even further – by now it would take a miracle, surely. If he not takes it, a breakdown on track, and he might finish third in the WCC winning car. It is not a small decision, otoh. I would take the new engine at Vegas, as without some luck there will be no hope anyway – on the other hand I see some potential in them to chose the gambling approach. Installing a new engine for the last 2 races when they have already lost, would not be any better, and quite uneven if we think of allocating resources over the course of a whole season as well. Maybe they will install it, just do not talk about swallowing the sour pill yet.

    Summed up, I have expected a bit more from him. He might be a fast racer, I might like his as a person, but indeed, we have not seen too much wheel to wheel ownage from him at F1 level yet. In this sense, it is a bit problematic in the case of Piastri, that he still has a considerable, something like 0.15s pace disadvantage compared to Norris. So, while not much before I have perceived them fantastic, it is interesting to see how times change.

    Now what should I say, maybe it was McLaren’s odd chance for a decade. If I were Daimler-Mercedes, (in the order of magnituede a so much bigger company), I would gracefully put them back into the supplied team’s role. Because giants like them, do not participate to look bad or even average in exchange of billions invested.
    1. 

       Jockey Ewing
       14th November 2024, 16:33

       …looked and felt cheesy instead of natural and smooth…
22. 

    RicoD (@ricod)
    14th November 2024, 18:23

    I’m no fan of Verstappen, but I’m sure you can find a bunch of points that he left on the table. There is two sides to the story…
    1. 

       Esploratore (@esploratore1)
       14th November 2024, 19:07

       The point is: the amount of points verstappen left on the table are like pennies, while norris left a lot of dollars!
    2. 

       SPArtacus
       15th November 2024, 0:23

       It’d have made a lot more sense to say “I’m no fan of Lando, but…” unless you somehow interpreted this article as trying to make excuses for Lando despite it being the opposite.
    3. 

       F1statsfan (@f1statsfan)
       15th November 2024, 8:09

       Indeed Max also left a few points on the table but nowhere near the amount that Lando or for that matter any other driver has this season. If you then also look where the driver achieved points above expectations than the score for Max would be positive while for Lando it stays negative.

       Depending if you are a lover, neutral or a hater of any particular driver you will come up with more or less points lost/gained but even the biggest Lando fan and Max hater doing the 2024 analysis will come up with the result that on net basis Lando lost more points than Max.

       It is unfortunate for Lando but it hopefully will have been a really good learning year that will make Lando a more compleet/formidable competitor in the years to come.

       In terms of leaving points on the table, what sets Max apart from any other driver in the last 30 years I have been watching F1 is his astonishing consistency of high performances pretty much every race weekend – certainly after his initial training years (keep in mind he only had 1 year in junior categories).

       Yes there have been driver errors by Max in last 5-6 years but they have been few and far apart and most often with little impact to this points tally.
       2021 Max won due to fewer mistakes over the entire season than Lewis despite more bad luck
       2022 After Spain Max was ahead due to multiple Ferrari/Leclerc errors – after the Red Bull became stronger car
       2023 No competition but you do not win 19 races, score 575 points and lead over 1,000 laps if you too many off days
       2024 Max will win because Lando/McLaren made too many errors despite having the best car for most of the season
23. 

    Chuck
    14th November 2024, 20:55

    Lando is very good at driving the car, but not as good at planning and strategy. It is as if he got where he is by simply enjoying going fast without much thought to what it meant….
    1. 

       Jockey Ewing
       15th November 2024, 14:07

       I think such things happened to others as well. For example, I can not decipher what happened to Ricciardo, but many things can be in the background at his downfall. After a good amount of thinking about Ricciardo, I have felt, that he broke into the circle of the top runners similarly (very quickly, by sheer talent) what you have described, and after that alongside some lack of success, some fear, and reconsideration might have crept in. Once one is a multimillionaire already as a young man, maybe it is already time to stop, or to play safe.
       Bottas was very quick too, but he was more like super clean but not really bothersome in wheel to wheel duels for the top runners. A bit of stagnation, or lack of success can break many otoh.
       Also, it is interesting to see, how easily and how many companies go bankrupt if they lose like 10-20 percents of their expected income or market capitalization in a quick or unexpected fashion – imo people are similarly brittle, even many of these professionals. They might be supported by coaches, what includes the mental side as well, but they are still people.
24. 

    ajay
    14th November 2024, 21:20

    this is what diffrentiates champions like MS, MV, LH and FA and the rest.. they perform irrespective of the car..

    whhen the car is good thye win.. if not score the maximum possible
25. 

    w0o0dy
    14th November 2024, 22:05

    I guess Max would say: “If my mom had balls she would be my dad”.
26. 

    slowmo (@slowmo)
    15th November 2024, 0:42

    Even Norris knows himself that on balance Verstappen has got far more from his car than he has done this year. This championship should have been closer and perhaps with an Alonso or Hamilton in that Mclaren the WDC would have already been wrapped up in their favour. Hopefully Norris can improve his consistency for next year.
    1. 

       Todfod (@todfod)
       15th November 2024, 7:55

       Its crazy when you think that Mclaren had a better car than Red Bull as early as race 7 (Miami).. and Max’s lead on Norris was 53 points at the time. 14 races later, Max has a 62 point lead over Norris.

       Sure, a lot of it has been better strategy and execution by Red Bull, but lets face it, Norris is not in the same league as Max. Heck, he isn’t even in the same league as Leclerc, Hamilton, Alonso and Russell. Any of these 4 drivers would have taken even a sliver of a shot at the title all the way to the last race, but instead we’re stuck with Norris, who shows pace on Saturdays and then consistently fails to capitalise on Sundays.

       Norris’ stock has dropped massively iIMHO. He’s not WDC material for sure.
       1. 

          notagrumpyfan
          15th November 2024, 10:02

          (Norris) isn’t even in the same league as Leclerc, Hamilton, Alonso and Russell

          Or maybe he is, but the ‘league’ is not close enough to the man at the top.
          Leclerc faltered as well often when the pressure increased, and he is not really leaving Sainz behind him either.
          Russell has failed to consistently impress me since he moved to Mercedes.
          Hamilton and Alonso clearly have been at the same level as Verstappen (pick your ranking), but both are showing their age lately.

          Maybe the next challenge for Verstappen* will come from Piastri, or a surprisingly quick ascending rookie.

          * as long as the top teams have similar cars.
27. 

    notagrumpyfan
    15th November 2024, 9:53

    There have been few occasions when Verstappen finished lower than his car looked capable of, and not once has his team mate Sergio Perez finished in front of him.

    It would be interesting to have another article (and guaranteed many views/clicks) to see how many more of an advantage Verstappen would have if Perez were as competitive to him as Piastri (often) was to Norris.
    E.g. if Perez was able to nestle himself in between Verstappen and Norris in all races where Verstappen finished higher, then the gap would be at least 18 points bigger.

    Interestingly the current World Championship standings seem to reflect the relative strength pretty well.
    – Verstappen the strongest driver over the season;
    – McLaren the best team with the strongest, and most consistent, driver line-up in a 3-4 way fight between teams of similar enough strengths. I would include Mercedes as I believe that if Mercedes had the two strongest drivers this year (pick your pair) then they would’ve led the WDC as well.
    1. 

       Ankita
       15th November 2024, 10:55

       I see your point but I personally would not find as interesting without considering the differences between Piastri-Perez and Verstappen-Norris. Is VER better than NOR? Is PIA better than PER? Would PIA do better than PER sitting alongside VER at Red Bull? Are PIA and PER being treated in equivalent ways in their teams vis-à-vis their teammates ?

       Very difficult questions to answer but necessary before speculating how the WC fight would look of PER were in the mix.
       1. 

          notagrumpyfan
          15th November 2024, 15:52

          Is VER better than NOR? Is PIA better than PER? Would PIA do better than PER sitting alongside VER at Red Bull? Are PIA and PER being treated in equivalent ways in their teams vis-à-vis their teammates ?

          I’d answer that (for this season) as:
          – Is VER better than NOR? YES (e.g. see this sites’ driver ratings);
          – Is PIA better than PER? YES (e.g. see this sites’ driver ratings);
          – Would PIA do better than PER sitting alongside VER at Red Bull? YES (he showed at McLaren that he can step up fairly quickly to the level of the more experienced driver);
          – Are PIA and PER being treated in equivalent ways in their teams vis-à-vis their teammates ? NA (RBR never was in a position to ask Perez to concede his position to his teammate), but the allocation of new updates seems quite similar between both teams.
          1. 

             Ankita
             16th November 2024, 5:20

             Agree with your answers to the first two questions. Disagree with the third and fourth. He showed at McLaren he can step up quickly. But, first, VER is not NOR. He has a stronger character, a stronger history with the team and a clear No. 1 position in the team. NOR has never had that, not with Sainz, not with Ricciardo. VER is extremely territorial. The few moments PER got a bit closer to him, he complained (mostly through his father) and you could see how immediately PER’s performance went down significantly (see for instance from Monaco to Montreal in 2022 or from Baku to Miami in 2023).
28. 

    Ankita
    15th November 2024, 10:14

    Great article. I think, though, it is not taking into account that had many of these mistakes not happened, VER would have finished a place behind he actually did which means he would have scored fewer points. For instance, in Canada, it was not a loss of seven but of 14 points. Had NOR won, he would have scored 7 points more than he actually scored, and VER 7 less than he actually scored. Thus, you have to deduct 14 points from the current point difference to ascertain the real impact of the mistake.

    Also, in Austria, NOR he didn’t lose 18 points. He lost only five because he was going to lose seven to VER had he finished second. Instead, as things unfolded, VER scored only 12 instead of 25. This means that you would have to deduct only five (12 – 7) from the current points difference.
    1. 

       bosyber (@bosyber)
       15th November 2024, 22:13

       That’s a useful note, I was wondering some of the same.

       Still, as you say an interesting exercise. Sure some may put the balance of team/driver/bad luck different, but on the whole this seems like a level-headed look at the points where Norris’ season could have turned around and looked differently.

       I feel that Norris wasn’t really ready for this fight, even though he tried to take up the gauntlet, his team was never really there on the opportunity, so even when they said they’d support him, it was a bit too late and not quite felt for real.

       Also, he did suffer from a team mate who was on several occasions quite close to him and eager to beat him, and not invested in helping his team have a WDC that wasn’t himself. Why? Apart from their own issues as a race team, probably also because Norris wasn’t able to give them the confidence he was up to the fight and couldn’t be ignored for other priorities, both on track and off it.

       I do think the team should have gone for the opportunity much sooner, because who knows whether they will actually have a similar opportunity in 2025, and I do think that going for it would have changed several of these races. But not convinced it would have been enough from team and driver.
29. 

    Mr Sam X Crawford
    15th November 2024, 11:36

    So if we rewrite history and suddenly Lando is completely faultless and his car is bulletproof, he could have won the title!

    Guess what? If Sauber had the fastest car on the grid and Bottas was given a 1 lap head start over everyone else, Bottas could be WDC!
    1. 

       SPArtacus
       15th November 2024, 13:56

       Wow, the article apparently went completely over your head. The entire point of the article was pointing out where Norris’ own failings cost him the title, NOT saying he should have won. How could you miss something so obvious? I guess you’re not alone. w0o0dy Seems to be suffering similar comprehension issues.
30. 

    Tommy C (@tommy-c)
    15th November 2024, 23:07

    It has indeed been a very scruffy season for Norris and McLaren. I don’t think we should be too harsh though. Winning the drivers championship isn’t meant to be easy and this is the first time Norris has been in a title fight and it’s been over 15 years now since McLaren has had machinery worthy of consistently fighting for wins. They were always going to be up against it with Red Bull coming off the back of the 2 most dominant drivers championship wins with Max. I hope they chalk 2024 up to a learning experience and come back stronger next year. For the neutral fan, it will be great if we can see a genuine title fight from round 1. I wouldn’t just bank on Norris challenging Max though. I think Norris will have his hands full with Oscar. And if Ferrari continue on their current trajectory, Charles and Lewis should be right up there too.
31. 

    An Sionnach
    16th November 2024, 22:03

    I don’t really want to say anything, but… it was a shock to see the gulf in class laid bare. Norris criticises himself too much in public. He needs to forge a more resilient persona. He needs reasoned, critical analysis in order to improve. I expect that the people around Max do not tell him he’s right all the time and that they will bat away the noise and focus on how he can continue to get better. Whether this is true or not, it could help Lando. The remaining races this year should be used to prepare for next year. A little experimentation is possible without losing any points from next year.
32. 

    David West
    27th November 2024, 14:13

    Now list Max’s mistakes that have cost him points.

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