Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff has criticised his Red Bull counterpart Christian Horner’s reaction to a short-lived FIA investigation concerning his team in December last year.
“I don’t think you can rely on what he says,” Wolff told The Guardian in an interview promoting a book about the Mercedes team.Within the space of 48 hours last December, the FIA’s Compliance Department announced it was looking into an alleged conflict of interest between an F1 team principal and a member of Formula One Management, then declared no investigation was taking place. Wolff and his wife Susie Wolff, who is the CEO of all-female junior series F1 Academy, were understood to be the subject of the FIA probe.
The sudden conclusion to the investigation came one day after all nine of Mercedes’ rival F1 teams publicly declared they had raised no concerns regarding the team. Wolff said he was gratified by the speed with which his rivals, led by Ferrari team principal Frederic Vasseur, organised their reaction.
“The response was great,” he said. “I didn’t make a single phone call to any team. Fred took it into his hands and said: ‘This is just so unfair’. From Guenther Steiner [Haas team principal at the time] to James Vowles [Mercedes’ former strategy chief who now runs Williams] everybody jumped on to this.”
However Wolff claimed Horner initially resisted putting his name to the same statement as the eight other teams. “They were all ready, but for Christian, to sign a document in our support,” he claimed.
“As far as I understand it he said: ‘I’m having my own Sky interview and I’m going to say I’m not part of it. I’m not signing the document.’ The other nine teams said: ‘Fine.’ But obviously he was advised that wouldn’t look great and he should be part of the statement.
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“In the second iteration, he tried to get the word ‘official’ in the statement. He wanted a note to say that no one [among the team principals] officially complained to the FIA. The other teams said: ‘Fine. We do our declaration and you do your own.’ At the end, he signed it.”
Susie Wolff said in March she is taking legal action in France “in relation to the statements made about me by the FIA last December.” Last week a report emerged that Paolo Basarri, the head of the FIA’s Compliance Division during its investigation of Mercedes, had left the governing body.
The rivalry between the Mercedes and Red Bull bosses has only cooled slightly since it peaked in 2021 when their drivers Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton fought over the world championship. Toto Wolff is understood to have pursued Verstappen this year as a potential replacement for the Ferrari-bound Hamilton, despite the reigning champion being officially contracted to his current team until 2028.
In September, after Horner suggested Red Bull could target Mercedes driver George Russell as a replacement for the struggling Sergio Perez, Wolff accused his opposite number of “stirring shit up.”
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MacLeod (@macleod)
20th November 2024, 7:51
Yes, It’s clearly clear that Horner complained on a thing what happened in Canada (if memory serves me right) where Wolff came fort with something which the team bosses surprised and Wolff had papers in hand to vote on (not sure) about a FIA clearifycation which nobody should know about yet. That was a mistake from Toto as it was clear someone had informed him in front of that meeting……
For a simple soul like me that sounded and looked very fishy!
SteveP
20th November 2024, 8:52
That would be a red herring, then.
Of Horner: “I don’t think you can rely on what he says,”
In other news, the sun came up today and expected to do the same for the foreseeable future.
“In the second iteration, he tried to get the word ‘official’ in the statement. He wanted a note to say that no one [among the team principals] officially complained to the FIA.”
Which, gives you the hint that Horner knew that someone had done a whisper campaign.
It can be difficult if English isn’t your first language, or it is, but you’re not paying enough attention. Horner plays with words to deny without really denying – his budget cap breach statements being a well known example of his weasel words being swamped by the plain facts.
MacLeod (@macleod)
20th November 2024, 14:26
I am even not proficent in English as I learned it vocally during my life. So you could be right on that. Horner says a lot and I don’t believe everything he says because he has shagable wife. As I got it from my memory I am not sure about what the problem was back then.
So If I am the only one that remembers about that just ignore me ….
Coventry Climax
20th November 2024, 18:16
I remember it very clearly, and there is no need to ignore what you say.
Red herring smell foul too, when over three days out in the open.
The FiA official that’s ‘retired’ could just be another can of worms, which, btw, are frequently used as bait for fishing.
Also, I don’t thnk you can rely on what Wolff says. Most recent example being something he said about ‘shelf life’ about a certain multiple WDC in Mercedes’ employ – until end of this season. But ofcourse, he’s denying that now.
Bottomline, you can’t and shouldn’t trust either with what the say.
grapmg
20th November 2024, 9:05
If Wolff was so certain of his case then why not let the FIA conduct their investigation and wait for the results. The teams can give their support but it’s obvious nobody can tell what happened within the FIA. The pressure to cancel the whole investigation made it worse. This interview doesn’t make it look any better either.
notagrumpyfan
20th November 2024, 15:43
Wolff is probably not aware of the Barbara Streisand effect ;)
Coventry Climax
20th November 2024, 18:17
And he’s likeley not the only one. Enlighten us, please?
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
20th November 2024, 19:14
It goes something like this “and we got nothing to be guilty of”
notagrumpyfan
20th November 2024, 20:31
The Streisand effect is a phenomenon in which attempts to hide, remove, or censor information only serve to attract more attention to it.
The term is named after singer Barbra Streisand, who sued photographer Kenneth Adelman in 2003 for taking an aerial photograph of her Malibu mansion and posting it online as part of the California Coastal Records Project. Before the lawsuit, the photo had been viewed only six times. However, after Streisand’s legal action, the photo gained widespread attention and was viewed hundreds of thousands of times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
Coventry Climax
21st November 2024, 1:50
Ah, ok.
So she has something she might be remembered by then. It won’t be for anything else, as far as I’m concerned.
Maybe that’s what she was after in the first place? Self fulfilling Streisand prophecy?
notagrumpyfan
21st November 2024, 8:22
;)
MichaelN
20th November 2024, 9:40
Did anyone other than Wolff ever give attention to this? What a tiresome guy.
Focus on your team.
pastaman
20th November 2024, 13:59
Yes. The media. And here again when they asked him a question about it and he responded.
Coventry Climax
20th November 2024, 18:18
Where he could just as easily not say anything about it.
But these guys -both of them- seem to jump at the occasion.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
22nd November 2024, 0:14
Coventry Climax, if people were allowed to not say anything about questions the press asks them, Max Verstappen wouldn’t even be giving yes-no answers in official conferences.
pcxmac (@pcxmac)
21st November 2024, 5:42
He’s never focused on his team, it’s his stake in F1 that interests him. Mercedes is only a stepping stone towards taking a bigger share of the bubble. And clearly mr. wolff is desparate as hes beginning to sabotage his fellow team principles for leverage.
He doesn’t have Ross, Norbert or Niki anymore, gone are those days where the team had any cred. Now hes straight up posing and throwing up the latest ‘model’ to try and grasp at what ever he can. He’s lost the plot, and Mercedes will be lucky to stay ahead of Aston at this rate, if Newey has any real stones to throw.
The end of 2025 reads, Mercedes last chance … new engine regulations.
Sure George is a good driver, but cmmon, their prodigy has shown no real pace in F2, Bortoleto and Colopinto and Hadjar are miles faster than this guy, there’s no way Wolff would have not invested in Kimi’s F2 debut, the team sucks because it’s caught between two manufacturers drivers, and even after going the way of Kimi, after Bearman has had so many technical and setup issues, its still plain as day, that Mercedes future rests in the hand of a guy (George) who they all but discarded this season w/ speculation of Verstappen (whether or not any of his politicking with Jos was even real).
There is no respect on that team, George knows hes out, Kimi hasn’t proved himself, and the team are literally throwing Hamilton under the bus, and explaining it away as ‘testing’ or what ever, after George consistently gets the better of him in Qualifying time after time after time (this season). No respect, means this team will only get sucked further in to the political correct black hole it deserves.
pcxmac (@pcxmac)
21st November 2024, 5:43
*Colapinto
baasbas
20th November 2024, 10:54
If both parties only commented on things they could prove it would be bad for popcorn sales.
Coventry Climax
20th November 2024, 18:19
Brilliant!
Jack
20th November 2024, 11:21
All very odd this one.
Why does Wolff mention it again now?
Why did the FIA stop any investigation just because the teams said they never complained, If there was a genuine cause for doubt then investigation should have started and completed.
Anyone who is innocent of allegations would obviously welcome an investigation to officially vindicate them.
rprp
20th November 2024, 11:54
Absolute nonsense. There is no reason to be investigated if you have done nothing wrong and there is no suspicion of wrong doing.
Coventry Climax
21st November 2024, 1:43
Oh, but the suspicion was there alright, with Merc coming up with parts they could not have known about the official way.
So how does a document that teams signed, later on, that they did not complain, prove the innocence of the parties -read Wolff family- involved?
When I get robbed, just because I don’t file a complaint with the police, does not mean the robbery didn’t taken place. And if other witnesses then point to the robber, there’s reason for the police to investigate.
SteveP
21st November 2024, 14:23
I think the main point is that the FIA announced they were investigating following a complaint, from a team or teams, of improper behaviour, and then rapidly dropped the whole thing when the collective response from all the other teams was essentially “we made no such complaint” (although Horner wanted that to read as “no official complaint”)
There you go into the realms of asking obvious questions, like:
1. If there was enough to start an investigation and make a big announcement, why drop it like a hot brick when the teams collectively said we made no complaint?
2. Why did just one TP (Horner) want one specific word, “official,” included?
floodo1 (@floodo1)
20th November 2024, 12:24
Most likely he was asked a question about it. People have to remember pretty much all the quotes on this sight comes from responses to questions, usually by journalists. It’s not like they are going out of their way to put out press releases on this stuff
baasbas
20th November 2024, 13:08
@floodo1
While you are correct and it answers the ‘why is he/are they constantly talking about subject x’ question… I feel it is not applicable to this specific example. In different words he said ‘someone else said this, or so I’ve heard’.. which is bad enough for a gossip magazine to do, but really bad for him to say especially in his role.
SteveP
20th November 2024, 18:53
Let’s see, who told Toto they were organising a joint letter? = Fred Vasseur
Who said all teams, except one, were immediately onboard with the text? From the article, uncertain, but reasonable to assume that was Fred again since he was the one organising the response and would know who replied in what way.
Who said Horner wanted to add the word “official” to the text, prepared by Fred? Again, a reasonable assumption that Fred would have the response asking for the extra word.
You’re essentially trying to play the same game as Horner with suggestions that it was 3rd, 4th, 5th hand gossip, but you’re going to fail as it is well known that Vasseur and Wolff have a good, friendly relationship.
Fred organised it and would know who stood back or not.
baasbas
20th November 2024, 20:13
@SteveP
What are you on about? I said he shouldn’t make comments on those questions based on hearsay and assumptions. And you respond with a word salad based on, and I quote:
Please explain how I’m failing at a certain objective you seem to project on me?
Why are you assuming I’m with Horner trying to play a game?
I trust neither for as far as I can see them. And I can’t see them.
All I said was he shouldn’t be making such comments from his position
SteveP
20th November 2024, 20:28
@baasbas
You appear determined to not understand, let’s cut to the basic facts:
Who told Toto they (the teams) were organising a joint letter? = Fred Vasseur.
Therefore, who knew what other teams said in response? Fred.
Got that now?
baasbas
21st November 2024, 8:52
@SteveP
Nice tone you have there Steve. You can repeat the same statement but it doesn’t make you right.
I suggest you read up on hearsay and I’ll let you figure out for yourself why it is unwise for a team principal to use that in a public interview
SteveP
21st November 2024, 19:08
Thank you. Decades of experience pitching information at a level the audience can understand.
So, are you saying that FV misremembers who gathered the teams together to produce a joint statement?
He has spoken about it to the press as I recall.
Or are you questioning whether FV actually said one TP took a mildly different line, for some reason?
baasbas
22nd November 2024, 9:37
@SteveP
I think a decent tone is the minimum for any sort of interaction. If you can’t bring that up you’re not in the comment section to exchange thoughts and ideas, but you’re only here to spout yours..?
And again, instead of being on topic you can’t stop dragging this out of context. And since your one argument doesn’t hold value, you now reach for logical fallacies. You’re trying the (losing) strategy of the strawman to make it seem I’ve said stuff I didn’t. I haven’t said anything about Vasseurs memory nor did I even try to dispute what Vasseur might or might not have said. One last time, all I said was:
Wolff pulled a ‘he said she said’, you can read it in the article. That is a fact.
He said she said = hearsay. That is a fact.
He said it in a public interview. That is a fact.
I said: that is a dumb move from a TP. That is an opinion.
I can’t make it more simple than this. Either react to that if you will but stop your attempt at creating something that isn’t there
SPArtacus
20th November 2024, 13:46
Does anyone but Wolff, Horner, Max and Lewis get media attention? It seems like the focus of 99% of articles. It’s tiresome. I know we got some articles on Norris choking all the time, but that’s about the only other thing.
SteveP
20th November 2024, 18:56
Those articles only come up when he has a choke session.
So, yeah, pretty regular at the moment.
M2X
21st November 2024, 0:22
Most F1 journalists have no clue about the technicals of racing and what goes on in the cockpit and have no clue about the specifics of car design.
So most articles are about drama, politics and social media posts. “He said, she said”
Palindnilap (@palindnilap)
20th November 2024, 15:20
Before you jump to comment without reading the source : the Guardian article is free and an interesting read.
Grapmg
20th November 2024, 17:16
+1 Although it’s basically promotion of the book it’s still an interesting article.
Leo B
20th November 2024, 17:40
I get the impression F1 is generally not very good for Toto. It makes him very bitter and sours every day for him. Laxatives can help, I’m told.
Coventry Climax
20th November 2024, 18:22
That would certainly help getting him get his excrements leave his body from the correct side.
baasbas
21st November 2024, 9:50
Brilliant!
pcxmac (@pcxmac)
21st November 2024, 5:45
Me thinks laxatives are THE staple of his diet these days.
Tristan
20th November 2024, 19:51
Never trust someone that says you can’t trust someone. They’re playing the same game.
SteveP
20th November 2024, 20:29
If you insist, I won’t trust you :)
tielemst
20th November 2024, 21:45
I don’t even know who’s the pot and who’s the kettle anymore with these two.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
20th November 2024, 21:53
Ahah, indeed, first thing I thought when I read the headline: the ox saying the donkey is horned, maybe this proverb doesn’t exist in english since there’s pot kettle black, but it’s the literal translation of the italian one.
SteveP
20th November 2024, 21:57
Interesting divergence on a similar idiom.
Ox/donkey – neither are
Pot/kettle – both are
Vagaries and quicks of language – more interesting than F1?
SteveP
21st November 2024, 8:57
That’s quirks of language. Good old auto-boll…