Welcome to Wednesday’s edition of the RaceFans round-up.
Comment of the day
Lando Norris says having two competitive drivers raises the level of a team because they push each other harder, but do past examples show that isn’t necessarily the case?
I always think back to Benetton in 1996. Berger and Alesi were a competitive pairing just as they had been at Ferrari previously, but they left Ross Brawn frustrated and packing his bags to go to Ferrari. Why? He felt the B196 was every bit as good as the dominant B195 but lamented that neither Berger nor Alesi could do anything close to what Schumacher had done the year before.
People derisively talk about the ‘Schumacher model’, but I have yet to see a convincing case that anyone in the late 1990s would have been able to do much of anything to Schumacher. Even if you’d have paired him with a Häkkinen or a Villeneuve I don’t think it would have been particularly close. Maybe when you get to the mid 2000s and pair him with a young Alonso… maybe. The same is probably true for Verstappen now.
If the McLaren is so good that Piastri and Norris can duke it out for the title(s), more power to ’em. But against a Verstappen in an equal/same car? I suspect it wouldn’t be very interesting. But hey! That’s the game; the cars matter as well.
MichaelN
Happy birthday!
Happy birthday to Alianora la Canta, Fallon, Henrique Pinheiro, Jake, Jorge H., Lyndell D Wolff and Lyndell D Wolff!
On this day in motorsport
- Born on this day in 1941: Lella Lombardi, the only woman to score points in a Formula 1 world championship race – she finished sixth in Spain in 1975, but as the race was cut short she only scored half a point
- Born on this day in 1952: Didier Pironi, who won three times in F1 with Ligier and Ferrari, but was seriously injured in a crash at Hockeheim in 1982, never raced in F1 again, and died following a crash in a powerboat race in 1987
- Born on this day in 1958: Elio de Angelis, who scored two wins for Lotus during his F1 career but died in a crash while testing for Brabham at Paul Ricard in 1986
- Born on this day in 1964: Martin Donnelly, who was tipped as a star of the future when he started his first full season in 1990 with Lotus, but suffered serious injuries in a crash at Jerez that year and did not return to F1
- 30 years ago today Michael Schumacher won the Brazilian Grand Prix ahead of David Coulthard. Both were later disqualified due to fuel irregularities, but subsequently reinstated
- 25 years ago today Michael Schumacher won the Brazilian Grand Prix ahead of David Coulthard, again! This time Coulthard was disqualified from second place after his car failed a front wing check
- 25 years ago today Max Papis won the first race of the new CART IndyCar season at Miami’s Homestead oval, just six-tenths of a second ahead of Roberto Moreno
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An Sionnach
26th March 2025, 1:04
Yes, Berger and Alesi were licking their lips getting their hands on a championship-winning car in 1996 with Benetton. Unfortunately for them, it was only a championship-winning car in The Michael’s hands. Michael set a time in the 1995 Ferrari in the end of season test at Estoril (21st of November) 0.7 seconds faster than what Berger had managed in qualifying for the race (23rd of September). Following the stubborn anti-Michael and Max logic of some blind, deaf and dumb poor souls, Benetton had clearly been giving only Michael the good car, and they continued to refuse to give any other driver that amazing car after he left. Such was their loyalty to Michael that they inexplicably waited until 2005 and 2006 to give someone else a car to win the championship with. This time, it was only given to Fernando Alonso, but mysteriously not to Giancarlo Fisichella…
So, if Max leaves Red Bull, will he take that good car with him, just like Michael did?
XM (@xmf1)
26th March 2025, 2:34
Utterly preposterous. No team would put their own needs to win the constructor’s championship which actually brings in money, above the driver’s championship which brings absolutely no monetary value to the team.
/s
Mooa42
26th March 2025, 3:19
I think you will find that what An Sionnach has written above is sarcasm and therefore Utterly preposterous but there will be conspiracy theorists, and flat earthers that might think it’s true.
It would be so much better if a Sarcastier font was available.
anon
26th March 2025, 8:20
Mooa42, as an aside though, it seems that MichaelN, whose comment was post of the day, isn’t aware that there are those within Benetton’s technical department who disagreed with Ross Brawn’s claims about the B196.
For example, Nick Wirth, who took on the role of chief designer at Benetton in late 1996, was not impressed with the design of the B196. According to him, Benetton’s design team made “a lot of mistakes” with developing that car and he thought that it was a rather poorly designed car.
It’s worth noting that Berger did also provide technical information about the B196 in his autobiography, and he also pointed out the problems that the B196 had. One of the things he talked about was the aerodynamic instability of the B196, and the fact that the floor and diffuser of the car could stall unexpectedly – it was a major design flaw, and Benetton had to spend most of the season trying to fix the flawed aerodynamics of the car. There were also problems with the airflow around the cockpit being quite badly disrupted by the way that Benetton had interpreted the cockpit side protection changes for 1996 after Hakkinen’s accident the previous year.
MichaelN
26th March 2025, 23:12
Everyone has their own take, of course. I think Brawn has a lot of credibility, but I’m sure there is room for nuances.
Still, the broader point was that having a competitive driver pairing isn’t in itself very meaningful. Lots of midfield teams have competitive drivers, but it doesn’t do them much good. And if you have two mediocre/decent drivers in a great car, they’ll be competitive with each other but probably won’t win any titles.
Just in this case, McLaren had the same two drivers in 2023 and didn’t win anything. They had the same in 2024 and while they did take the WCC, it wasn’t very competitive, with Norris scoring a boatload more points. And as far as pushing each other to improve, both drivers have already fumbled at least one race this season, with Norris being fortunate enough to have it be the sprint. So these kind of declarations just don’t seem all that meaningful.
S Arkazam
26th March 2025, 8:35
That’s utterly preposterous!
Sarcasm shouldn’t need a special font, not even an emoticon.
Part of the fun is that some won’t get it.
El Pollo Loco
27th March 2025, 5:10
+1
It’s funny to see people not get sarcasm. And there are so many.
pcxmac (@pcxmac)
26th March 2025, 6:56
Norris needs to stop playing himself and win those races. I think he needs to find a wise hat like Pai Mei to beat him in to shape.
Frank
26th March 2025, 7:00
There are many ways in which Alesi-Berger differed from Norris-Piastri.
– Both Alesi and Berger had already been paired with Prost or Senna and were decisively beaten.
– Neither ever fought for a championship
– Neither seemed too bothered if the other finished ahead. They dwere closelybmatched but never seemed to push each other at all.
A better argument against Norris, in my humble opinion, would be that
– The push can also come from an external driver. F.e. Hamilton-Verstappen 2021 Alonso-Schumacher 2006 Schumacher-Hakkinen 1998…
– Having this external threat not only pushes the driver but also the team forward in a way that is less likely to happen when closely matched drivers duke it out in the best car.
So, no I do not believe that a team improves faster with closely matched drivers but it surely makes it a lot more interesting.
Ferdi
26th March 2025, 7:27
but, it is. You just don’t extract full potential nor are you consistent in your performance. Bladibla about the 23 RB. Yes a fine car but Max made it look better than it actually was. Just look at his results and consistency when in a lesser car.
Phil Norman (@phil-f1-21)
26th March 2025, 9:02
I have noticed that there are lots of past F1 drivers with their birthdays around now. Senna last Friday for example (the same date as mine!) and today de Angelis and Pironi. Two very good drivers who might have gone on to even greater heights but had their careers cut tragically short. I just about remember them racing.
S Arkazam
26th March 2025, 10:58
No surprise with 865 F1 drivers so far, of which 780 started a race, and 355 scored at least half a point ;)
Phil Norman (@phil-f1-21)
26th March 2025, 11:28
True, a good point. They probably just seem more resonant to me because it’s around my birthday. Even I was not around for most of those that raced in the fifties to the seventies.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
26th March 2025, 16:27
Thank you for the birthday wishes! I am indeed in good company.
COTD: There is a good point that if a team cannot find two competitive drivers, then one at the same level of competitiveness is better than none.
However, if two competitive drivers are available, that’s stronger than only one. I think this is Red Bull’s mistake. Hiring Max Verstappen is one thing, but by making the car so tightly tailored to his preferences, they have ensured he will always be a lone hunter. In an environment where other teams are able to get two drivers – especially those where one of the drivers is arguably as strong as Max – the teams whose drivers can support each other’s improvements gradually get the ability to overpower Red Bull. Remember that teams are paid by the Constructor’s Championship position.
Alesi-Berger would have been stronger than a team with only one driver at their level. The trouble was that mentally that team was expecting something more like Hill-Coulthard or even Schumacher-Irvine, which was far from what was received.