Verstappen told Red Bull to use Tsunoda before “hold him up” call

35 comments on “Verstappen told Red Bull to use Tsunoda before “hold him up” call”

1. 

   Jim from US (@jimfromus)
   21st May 2025, 11:53

   All within the rules. I have an issue with the 2nd team as those drivers want a spot as the support driver on the top team. We don’t have a point for fastest lap anymore due to the 2nd team tactics. It is unfair.
   1. 

      MichaelN
      21st May 2025, 12:31

      Indeed, Tsunoda is all good. Their third and fourth cars nor so much. In fact, they shouldn’t even be allowed to have four cars.
      1. 

         PeteB (@peteb)
         21st May 2025, 15:09

         They shouldn’t but that decision needed to be made nearly 20 years ago when Red Bull decided to buy Minardi. There’s nothing that can be done about it now. There has been similar issues with in football and the attempted solution failed. They said that if two clubs compete in the same competition, they can’t be owned by one person. The solution? The clubs are owned by different companies that are in turn, owned by the same parent company.

         There isn’t really a solution to this now that would stand up in court so it’s all about how you manage it going forward.
         1. 

            MichaelN
            21st May 2025, 17:31

            The F1 Sporting Regulations state in Article 8 that “All applications will be studied by the FIA and accepted or rejected at its absolute discretion”.

            Obviously there’s no desire on the part of the FIA to make more of this, and there’s no doubt going to be some complications due to the Concorde shenanigans, but if they wanted to put an end to Red Bull having four cars there seem to be ways to achieve that.

            There was an opportunity in 2010 with the three new teams to put a stop to that, but after they all folded, and nobody else was interested, this odd situation went back to being kind of necessary to keep F1 at 20 cars.
2. 

   Fawkes
   21st May 2025, 12:02

   Although legal for me it’s also immoral. That’s why I like McLaren, always have: let the guys fight, pure racing til the end, few to no rules. And that’s another reason why I despise Max and, above all, red bull racing.
   1. 

      MacLeod (@macleod)
      21st May 2025, 12:08

      You do know McLaren does the same if the cars are so much apart….

      This isn’t wrong but just using all tools which ALL teams will do.
   2. 

      osnola
      21st May 2025, 12:11

      Piastri confirms he will ‘help out’ Norris in quest to overhaul Verstappen after McLaren team orders talks

      yep completely immoral ;)
      So now you “despise” McLaren too .
      Come on, teams work together and yes they try to make life difficult for other drivers all within the rules.
      If you do not understand the sport its time to learn.
   3. 

      Ideals (@ideals)
      21st May 2025, 12:12

      What does morality have to do with it? It’s a sport where you play to your advantage to win.

      McLaren also uses team orders, I distinctly remember a sprint race last year where race control had to not intervene for two extra laps just so McLaren could get their team orders done before overtaking became illegal. So if you “despise Max and red bull racing” for this, you can’t really be talking up McLaren, now can you?
   4. 

      Ferdi
      21st May 2025, 12:42

      Then maybe we should have just one car per team? I mean, what is the use of being a team?
   5. 

      N (@kimi2008)
      21st May 2025, 13:33

      You must despise Williams even more then, when they gave Albon his teammates car after he crashed it in practice.

      But I guess that’s not really why you hate Verstappen and Red Bull.
   6. 

      grapmg
      21st May 2025, 14:51

      This is so funny. Piastri had more teamorders to move over in 2024 than Perez in his whole career with Max. But what did you expect that Yuki will let Piastri go? They are racing for position nothing immoral about that.
   7. 

      Fawkes
      21st May 2025, 16:05

      Replying to all comments above: of course it’s ok to use teammates, it’s the very reason why we have teams. I’m totally ok with drivers helping their teammates, specially when they do not have the chance to win a championship anymore, and sometimes with creating DRS trains to score more points (although this goes against the fair racing ethic I support). The thing is that RBR is totally Max-centric and their second drivers have to deal with a car tailored to his driving style plus having to sacrifice every now and then to test tyre strategy, holding back other drivers and so on, often leading them to look like clowns ruining their own races. I mean, they almost don’t race for themselves anymore. I thought Ferrari was terrible doing this for Schumacher in the 90s-00s. But Red Bull goes even further having four cars and three teammates potentially helping Max. It’s legal, but just not fair. Same thing for every sport you could mention: it’s simply not fair play.
      1. 

         Ideals (@ideals)
         21st May 2025, 17:10

         Max nor Red Bull made Yuki crash his car in qualifying. “They are Max-Centric” because Max delivers pole position quality laps every single qualifying and wins races even when his car isn’t the best, while his teammates toil around outside of the points.

         Yuki was in the position of a back marker being asked to help Max because he himself crashed his car into the wall on his first flying lap. That is it, all there’s to it. If it was unfair to anyone it was his mechanics who spend the entire night building him an entirely new F1 car so he could actually participate in the race.
      2. 

         grapmg
         21st May 2025, 17:37

         I think you are overreacting. Remember that Max is usually quicker than his teammates but when he isn’t f.e. Perez in Baku (2023), Perez didn’t recieve teamorders. Just as in Jeddah 2023 in both occasions with Max second so they could have easily swapped. That is the difference with Schumacher when Barrichello was told to let him past in Austria 2002. I hated Schumacher and Ferrari in those days but the fact is both Max and Schumi earned the number one status because they are always so much above their teammates. BTW I think the McLaren papaya rules are fair and it’s great to see teammates battle. If Yuki or someone in Red Bull (maybe Hadjar) can challange Max I hope they let them race.
3. 

   Peter Rippon
   21st May 2025, 13:09

   Sad how the sport has been reduced to this, consider how Perez impeded Hamilton in the 2021 final. Never used to be like this in the early days of the “sport”, when you had decent humans driving.
   F1 is now reduced to “partys” and “shows” with street racing and pure race tracks are few and far between- the “Americanization” of F1 is almost complete and very likely will soon implode.
   I hope I see the day when a new F1 is formed with smaller, lighter and simple engined cars can race on tracks like Watkins Glenn, Imola and Silverstone again.
   1. 

      Jason Blankenship (@jblank)
      21st May 2025, 13:21

      That’s just silly AND incorrect. This is a team sport, the team is going to use every opportunity to assist one or both of their drivers, maximize their race. This has been going on for as long as I can remember and I’m 50 years old. Americanization? Spare me.
   2. 

      roadrunner (@roadrunner)
      21st May 2025, 14:25

      The age of decent humans:
      1956 Argentina: Fangio had a problem with his car so his teammate Musso had to give him his and had to continue in the ailing one.
      1956 Italy: This time Fangio retired and again Musso should hand him over his car. He refused and the third driver Collins did it instead.
      1964 Mexico: In the championship battle between Hill and and his teammate Surtees, Lorenzo Bandini first took Hill out than let Surtees by to secure him the title.
      More recent: 1999 Japan:
      The lapped Coulthard was told to block Schumacher who was closing on Hakkinen. Coulthard slowed and zigzagged on the straight costing Schumacher about 5 seconds.
      These are just a few examples of many moments of gamesmanship. That has always been and will always will be a part of F1.
   3. 

      F1statsfan (@f1statsfan)
      21st May 2025, 14:45

      It always has been part of the sport and there are endless examples for all teams

      Recently it was Magnussen that did it to the extreme giving Hulkenberg a free pitstop
      Bottas purposely slowly down behind safety car in Monaco so he wouldn’t lose time being double stacked with Lewis
      Norris trying to delay Max or someone else in Baku giving Piastri more time

      Delaying a pitstop for a driver so that their competitor would be stuck for 1 of more laps – in recent times this seems less effective as the benefit of fresh tires is much greater than it used to be.

      For most on this site they are perfectly fine with it till it is done by Red Bull or remotely could benefit Max – than it is immoral, bad for the sport – the all to frequent hypocrisy sauce on this very British F1 forum.
   4. 

      rpla
      22nd May 2025, 0:18

      It seems like you’re looking for Super Formula, which provides just that: actual sport on pure race tracks.
   5. 

      Ferdi
      22nd May 2025, 7:13

      So the first part I do not agree with as I feel it is part of the gameplay to use your second car strategically. Why else have a second car?

      As to the 2nd part; couldn’t agree more. It seems that everything that gets into contact with US culture is one step away from imploding. It is al very one-dimensionally aimed at money grabbing and making things as simple as possible for a not so smart audience. So lots of fireworks and show all the time since the attention span has already reduced to about 3 seconds.

      I also can’t wait to see the day a new F1 is created. I do however not think it will happen. The only chance is a Middle Eastern initiative and the question is then whether it will differ significantly enough from the US version to be an improvement.
4. 

   Hans Herrmann (@twentyseven)
   21st May 2025, 13:16

   When I saw this I thought Max had masterminded the strategy to use Yuki to hold up Oscar.. When you read through it it was sort of obvious, Max was told that Oscar came out behind Yuki so it’s a natural reaction from Max to ask that Yuki slow him down.

   With regards to the “Morality” of using team mates to hold up other drivers.. That is the sport! The sport is also to bend the technical regs to breaking point to gain a technical advantage and to use spy photography to gain useful info on other teams, to use the media to put pressure on drivers and team members of opposing teams. If that’s too “immoral” for you then you may want to choose another sport to watch.

   FYI you may want to avoid poker because that involves “immorally” lying about the cards you have in your hands, otherwise known as bluffing ;)
   1. 

      Jason Blankenship (@jblank)
      21st May 2025, 13:22

      Precisely. The pearl clutching over this just shows ignorance, in my opinion.
   2. 

      Peter Rippon
      21st May 2025, 13:36

      This NOT how the Sport used to be and I have been both watching and involved in F1 since 1961! It IS immoral to purposely hold up a competitor in any sport. F1 is not poker!! Driving hard but fair is different to purposely blocking to aid a teammate – then again I guess this fits the modern -“win at all costs” mentality.
      This is also why IMSA racing is now more popular amongst knowledgeable hard core enthusiasts!
      1. 

         Marcus (@marcusw)
         21st May 2025, 14:40

         You’re right Peter it is immoral. Just like it’s immoral to have a goalkeeper in football (soccer) that is only there to block opponents perfectly legal shots at goal, or Offensive Guards & Offensive Tackles in American football who are only there to allow their teammates to carry the ball, or stop the QB from getting sacked. How about professional cycling where entire teams are made up of riders who’s sole purpose is to support their team leader by chasing down breakaways, or supplying mid-race food and drinks to their leader. They even give up their bikes sometimes! It’s just not cricket!

         Which raises another example actually. In cricket most of the players are there only to catch the ball after the opposing batter has hit it! Can you imagine the frustration of hitting a perfectly good ball for a 4, only to have the bowler’s teammate stop it and throw it back to another teammate! Honestly, the cheek of it!!!

         Bloody team sports eh!
      2. 

         F1statsfan (@f1statsfan)
         21st May 2025, 14:44

         It always has been part of the sport and there are endless examples for all teams

         Recently it was Magnussen that did it to the extreme giving Hulkenberg a free pitstop
         Bottas purposely slowly down behind safety car in Monaco so he wouldn’t lose time being double stacked with Lewis
         Norris trying to delay Max or someone else in Baku giving Piastri more time

         Delaying a pitstop for a driver so that their competitor would be stuck for 1 of more laps – in recent times this seems less effective as the benefit of fresh tires is much greater than it used to be.

         For most on this site they are perfectly fine with it till it is done by Red Bull or remotely could benefit Max – than it is immoral, bad for the sport – the all to frequent hypocrisy sauce on this very British F1 forum.
      3. 

         Hans Herrmann (@twentyseven)
         21st May 2025, 14:45

         I get that you would prefer a purist racing focused sport but I think “Immoral” is just the wrong word to use in this case. It is openly allowed within the rules to request a teammate to hold up your rival. I suppose it depends on how you view the sport. I view it as a team sport and your teammate is part of that team. I see roadrunner above has given examples of this team approach from the beginning of the sport to the modern day.
         In the words of Democritus, “World is decay life is perspective” I think it’s time you altered your perspective, you might even find new things to enjoy in this sport.
         1. 

            Hans Herrmann (@twentyseven)
            21st May 2025, 14:48

            *Perception
      4. 

         PeteB (@peteb)
         21st May 2025, 15:17

         What did you think a few years ago of Hamilton slowing down to back Rosberg into traffic at Abu Dhabi? Immoral?
         1. 

            osnola
            21st May 2025, 15:43

            no of course not. That is sportmanship he is sir goat.
5. 

   Matthijs (@matthijs)
   21st May 2025, 13:54

   It IS immoral to purposely hold up a competitor in any sport. F1 is not poker!!

   Well it is called Texas hold ‘m
6. 

   Leo B
   21st May 2025, 13:57

   The problem was created by the McLaren strategists and the slow pitstop the crew gave Piastri.
   1. 

      pcxmac (@pcxmac)
      21st May 2025, 19:16

      Piastri lost 2nd as soon as he pitted. Not during the pit or after. Piastri tries to go for the fastest setup possible, because as of the race previous to Imola, position was everything. Now, it appears that the tires have more legs, and guys like Lando, who thrive on getting the most out of tires, not pressing tires hard on the first lap, etc, will end up going faster in the end.

      Piastri lost the race because he did’nt realize the tires would favor going long, and the fronts would be so not-limited, at least with respect to Ferrari and RBR.

      His strategy and pit stop had nothing to do with him losing. He lost because RBR wasn’t tire limited like they have been since last year at before. Did you hear about Max complaining about his rears slipping all over the place ? He actually was quite positive about the tires, just like Ferrari.

      He lost first position because he let Max go through, because he has better faith in the tires NOT favoring RBR, vs him beating his teammate. ERGO, he will let Max pass instead of crashing in to him, almost every time, until that changes.

      If the tires are like this till the end of the year, McLaren will lose the drivers championship easily. RBR was clearly much faster in race pace. The best way to slow RBR is to stay in front of it, and choke it’s brakes / overheat its tires. Best way for Lando to win is to lead his competitor (sucking them in to a turn), and push them off the track. Just like the genius at RBR, it would be a great way to beat Max this year imo.
7. 

   Edvaldo
   21st May 2025, 13:59

   Mercedes, Ferrari, and Red Bull did it a lot in the past years, so, no issue there.

   That’s the reason Red Bull runs a 2nd car since Ricciardo left anyway.
8. 

   Coventry Climax
   21st May 2025, 17:34

   Anyone complaining about this also complaining about Leclerc ruining Albon’s race in favor of Hamilton?

   Any radio analysis there?
9. 

   F1 in Figures (@f1infigures)
   22nd May 2025, 6:06

   This chart really shows how awful Piastri’s strategy was. He found absolutely no time on his new tires. Having to pass other cars undoubtedly cost him time, but even in clear air the performance advantage was minimal, so he essentially just wasted half a minute in the pit lane.

   The only driver who made that early stop work to some extent was Leclerc, who was in traffic at the beginning of the race and managed to undercut the fairly slow Russell. But Piastri was happily running in 2nd, so there was no need for McLaren to bring him in that early. They really dropped the ball here.

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