[gmsabu]
Charles Leclerc has scored his second win in as many races after soaking up race-long pressure from the Mercedes drivers at Monza.
The Ferrari driver delivered the team’s first home victory for nine years despite being pushed hard by Lewis Hamilton in the opening stages. Hamilton renewed his attack after the pair made their pit stops, and Leclerc was shown the black-and-white flag at one stage after the pair clashed at the Della Roggia, but the Ferrari driver stayed ahead.
Hamilton’s challenge faded on his medium compound tyres. Valtteri Bottas took second place off his team mate when Hamilton went wide at the chicane, and took up the pursuit of Leclerc’s hard-tyred Ferrari. But a mistake by Bottas at the Rettifilio with three laps to go spelled the end of his attempt to pass the Ferrari.Sebastian Vettel threw his race away when he spun at Ascari early on. He then compounded his error by pulling onto the track in front of Lance Stroll, hitting the Racing Point, and earning himself a 10-second stop-go penalty for the potentially dangerous incident. Stroll also pulled onto the track in front of Pierre Gasly and collected a drive-through penalty.
The Renault drivers capitalised on Vettel’s error and the compromised starting positions of the Red Bulls. Daniel Ricciardo came home fourth having passed team mate Nico Hulkenberg early on.
Alexander Albon took sixth place for Red Bull despite picking up a five-second time penalty for gaining an advantage by leaving the track. Max Verstappen recovered from a first-lap collision which damaged his front wing to take eighth, crossing the line close behind Sergio Perez.
Antonio Giovinazzi scored his best F1 result to date with ninth place, after team mate Kimi Raikkonen was given a 10-second stop-go penalty for starting on the wrong tyres. Lando Norris claimed the final point after his team mate Carlos Sainz retired.
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2019 Italian Grand Prix reaction
- Check back shortly for more race reaction
Iosif (@afonic)
8th September 2019, 15:38
Brilliant race! Amazing race by Charles, reminded me of Schumi, when we was able to win with a slower car.
The end of the Vettel era for sure.
hamiledon
8th September 2019, 16:54
Well said. These young guns are brilliant. I mean Leclerc and Verstappen.
Andre Furtado
8th September 2019, 17:59
Charles chested. The run off should have cost him first place.
Dean
9th September 2019, 9:41
SLOWER car? Really?
It will be in Singapore but it wasn’t here at Monza. Straight line speed was way faster than everything else on track.
Kribana (@krichelle)
8th September 2019, 15:40
Survives surprise attacks from Hamilton and survives against the two cars being faster. Absolute legend in spite of the mistakes. Vettel is finished, and he should retire after today. Simple as that.
Neil
8th September 2019, 15:51
Faster? He was on pole, he was the fastest car.
hahostolze (@hahostolze)
8th September 2019, 15:53
If this was your first time watching F1, then please note that the car getting pole is regularly not the fastest on race pace. We saw it in the last two races too. Quite the unusual thing. It’s what makes F1 fun.
sebsronnie (@sebsronnie)
8th September 2019, 16:28
So you’re saying that the Ferrari which managed to stay in front on harder tyres than the Mercedes was actually slower? And people say the Merc people downplay themselves…
hahostolze (@hahostolze)
8th September 2019, 17:05
@sebsronnie the Ferrari that couldn’t manage its tires remotely enough to use the medium tires in a ‘one stop’ race? That one? The Ferrari that relied solely on their straight line speed to keep Hamilton at bay, where Hamilton would have romped many seconds ahead if he had passed? That one?
Ferrari played their hand well, they knew the hards would definitely require no more pitstop, and that their top speed was unbeatable. Don’t for one second let that make you think the car was faster over a set of laps, they just knew it was unlikely Hamilton would pass. Those two things are not the same.
MG1982 (@mg1982)
9th September 2019, 8:50
Mmm, yeah! Cause these tyres are weird. Only previous race, VET with fresh tyres was slower overall than Mercs with used harder tyres.
David (@davidjwest)
8th September 2019, 17:04
Indeed.
If the Mercedes was faster, how come the undercut was nowhere near working out for Hamilton?
Looks like Leclerc had a bit in reserve, he knew he just had to get a good exit from Parabolica and his engine would do the rest. He was taking it easy through Lesmos to preserve the tyres I think.
macradar (@macradar)
8th September 2019, 15:56
Just shows how warped perceptions can be. This week Ferrari were the FASTEST. Anyone who doesn’t understand that needs help.
Blaize Falconberger (@)
8th September 2019, 15:58
The Ferrari’s have clearly been faster for a few races now… It;s great to see them bringing some sort of challenge to Mercedes.
David (@davidjwest)
8th September 2019, 16:01
Faster in a straight line is all you need, Mercedes made a major setup blunder.
hahostolze (@hahostolze)
8th September 2019, 16:02
@timeslides unless ‘a few’ means the previous one (where on race pace Mercedes were much faster anyway, but ignoring that), please do tell me how Ferrari were faster in Hungary or Germany or Silverstone.
Karabo
8th September 2019, 17:52
+1
Don
8th September 2019, 16:04
lol . Charles was fastest on a single lap with a messy qualifying session which is not really representative. The merc were faster during the race with a softer tyre
kcrossle (@kcrossle)
8th September 2019, 16:08
Mercedes may have been “faster”. But (visibly) not out of Parabolica which is critical to keeping the lead.
MG1982 (@mg1982)
8th September 2019, 16:21
Thing is HAM was fastest in the 3rd sector, LEC only 4th fastest.
Ajaxn
8th September 2019, 18:17
With all talk in qualifying of slipstreaming, I was expecting Hamilton the double advantage of this slip stream and th DRS. I Guess Ferrari were long over-due a win on home turf and Charles was the man to deliver.
Question. With ten laps to go, should Mercedes have brought Lewis in sooner to have go on fresh tires ? Bottas has just overtaken him on fresher tires. I believe he would have had at least a 2 second a lap advantage on those new softs.
Btw when leclerc cut the first corner with Lewis on his tail, why wasnt this ruled an unfair advantage?
Slavisa (@sylversurferr)
8th September 2019, 19:40
It’s because he actually lose some time, didn’t get any advantage and took some damage on the car.
GechiChan (@gechichan)
8th September 2019, 18:47
Ferrari was actually faster on the important parts of the track today. On the straights they were untouchable, even with DRS and power modes to 11. On any other track, I would agree that Lewis should have won with his downforce advantage, but Monza is special.
For once (this decade) Ferrari changed their philosophy and had built a car that could win at home, but hardly anywhere else.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
8th September 2019, 15:41
Impressive job by Charles, fending off a Mercedes pair on softer tyres.
Very gracious of Hamilton in the post-race interview with Brundle.
Vettel, sigh, move on, man. Go join the ballet, they admire pirouettes.
McLaren, watch your backs.
BasCB (@bascb)
8th September 2019, 15:52
Not a great day for McLaren was it. Especially with Renault achieving the maximum today.
And yeah, I think we are seeing Vettel break down, much like he lost it when Daniel started beating him in the Red Bull. Wouldn’t even be surprised if he called it quits after this year.
Sundar Srinivas Harish (@sundark)
8th September 2019, 16:31
McLaren were doing well until Carlito’s wheel gun cock-up. I don’t think they have anything to fear from Renault, this was a freak result for them, aided by a good setup for once this season, and Honda’s returning woes.
Chaitanya
8th September 2019, 15:41
Once again no had confidence in hards and it is the tyre that ultimately worked.
Yaru
8th September 2019, 15:49
Ferrari doesn’t work with these Medium in practice I believe.
Don
8th September 2019, 16:00
They did work with medium. Charles even set the fastest time on FP1 using a medium tyre
Mashiat (@mashiat)
8th September 2019, 16:20
There is a difference between one-lap and a race distance. In FP2, Leclerc was quicker than Vettel on mediums whilst running hards.
Jere (@jerejj)
8th September 2019, 15:42
Quite a few questionable moves in the race by different drivers even by the eventual race winner as well, but overall, great battling throughout the field.
MG1982 (@mg1982)
8th September 2019, 15:56
The 1st questionable move of LEC, where he got the black and white flag, was OK. On the limit, but OK. It wasn’t by any means more questionable than VER’s move in Austria.
Hugh (@hugh11)
8th September 2019, 16:02
Agreed. It was one of those where you think ‘oh that’s a little bit naughty’ but doesn’t deserve anything penalty wise. And that’s why I think the black and white flag is good, it’s for those sorts of things.
cswilly (@cswilly)
8th September 2019, 16:20
Black and white flag is perfect if you want great racing.
Carlos Medrano (@carlosmedrano)
8th September 2019, 19:42
Its max who started this and the stewards fault for not doing anything. So now because max got away with it all the drivers are going to drive dirty pushing cars off and never leaving space. Rip great side by side battles between drivers with honor now we have battles that last seconds with one driver pushing off the other no skill required
erikje
8th September 2019, 20:27
So according to you Max all alone revived the F1 season. Not bad for a “boy”.
Dean
9th September 2019, 9:47
Revived? In what respect? The season has long been over.
AMG44 (@amg44)
8th September 2019, 15:43
Ahhhhhhh at least Lewis tried and was so close to getting past on multiple occasions. This boring Bottas did nothing with much fresher tires. Thats why Mercedes should have gone for Ocon.
iCarbs (@icarby)
8th September 2019, 15:47
@amg44, was thinking the same. I think Merc have serious problems, re driver lineup.
Yaru
8th September 2019, 15:53
To be fair, Hamilton had the far majority of the race to try stuff, Bottas didnt. Their strategy for him was different.
Bottas ultimately finished 2nd despite not being the guy they planned to fight Charles. That happened because Hamilton made mistakes to lose 2nd. Bottas wasn’t error free either but the end result speaks for themselves.
hahostolze (@hahostolze)
8th September 2019, 15:55
@amg44 by the time Bottas had a go his tires were as old as Hamilton’s when he tried. Bottas made an error, otherwise he definitely would have had a go. Bit of a pointless comment this.
iCarbs (@icarby)
8th September 2019, 16:04
@hahostolze disagree, Bottas’s tyres were 7 laps younger and wasn’t being constantly destroyed by attacking another car. He had at least 8- 10 laps to put Leclerc under pressure.
@Yaru Ham at least tried…
René (@)
8th September 2019, 16:10
He used that 7 laps fresher tires to close the gap he had after his pit stop.
kcrossle (@kcrossle)
8th September 2019, 16:14
Yes, but don’t the mediums have a big advantage for a number of laps, then they become average… losing that big advantage.
Carlos Medrano (@carlosmedrano)
8th September 2019, 19:43
Agree Hamilton put up a great fight Bottas on the other hand with fresher tyres did less the lewis. They should have put ricciardo in that merc the totle fight would have been legendary
sebsronnie (@sebsronnie)
8th September 2019, 16:48
Pointless? Why add that? The assertion is valid – Ham was in Lec’s dirty air for lap after lap and yet he applied significantly more pressure despite the damage that would have done to his tyres. And this was when Lec’s tyres – though harder – were at their best.
Kurik
9th September 2019, 16:45
I like Bottas, fast/does the job, but when I saw Ham make the mistake and Bottas passed him to challenge Leclerc I had absolutely no belief he would be able to pass Leclerc for the win and not because Ham couldn’t do it…I just don’t and couldn’t see Bottas passing and taking the win – he just doesn’t have it in him somehow (or that i have seen). If he did he would have gained some serious additional respect from everyone.
Mashiat (@mashiat)
8th September 2019, 15:43
Vettel is in a terrible place right now. He has a teammate who is 11 years younger than him and is now decisively quicker than him, and he can’t even rely on his experience to beat this kid. You wouldn’t want to be known as the 4-time world champion who quit when things got tough, but he will risk going down as a 4-time world champion who couldn’t hack it against first Ricciardo, then got demolished by Leclerc. Really brings those titles into question again.
Mashiat (@mashiat)
8th September 2019, 15:48
And even then, can Ferrari really afford to have a number 2 driver on the amount of money that Vettel is on? If I were Ferrari, I would definitely try to poach Ricciardo from Renault and get him to accept a pay cut. He’ll have a level of motivation that Vettel won’t, and won’t cause too many problems internally.
Jan
8th September 2019, 18:23
Yes, Ferrari can afford it. If Seb isn’t racing for them next year it will be his decision.
John H (@john-h)
8th September 2019, 15:48
I think this is very unfair. Vettel was the driver that only 12 months ago was the only Ferrari driver to get close to Hamilton, Kimi being nowhere. Vettel is having a very bad year, but he’s a class driver that definitely should not retire. He’s also not getting ‘demolished’ by Leclerc this season, only in the last couple of races has that happened.
I’m not Vettel’s biggest fan, but some of the comments about him since Germany 2018 are not fair imho. He’ll be strong next year.
Neil
8th September 2019, 15:52
He’ll be strong next year?
Mistake after mistake in 2017, 2018 and now 2019
He is done.
Mashiat (@mashiat)
8th September 2019, 16:23
@john-h I think that says more about Raikkonen than Vettel. Moreover, I said that he risks getting demolished by Leclerc if he continues with Ferrari, and not what has happened so far.
Well, people said so in 2016, 2017, 2018 and now 2019. Truth is, Vettel hasn’t had a consistent year yet since 2015, and even then the Ferrari was in a league of its own, with Mercedes too far ahead, and Red Bull too far behind.
Blazzz (@blazzz)
8th September 2019, 16:26
Makes you wonder how that picture would have looked with Leclerc in the other seat. Not taking anything anyway from Kimi but clearly Leclerc is a better benchmark on pace these days.
Carlos Medrano (@carlosmedrano)
8th September 2019, 19:44
Ricciardo demolished vettel, leclerc is definitely driving better but no were near the domination ricciardo had over vettel
iCarbs (@icarby)
8th September 2019, 15:43
Faster? The Ferrari was a monster today?
Brilliant from Leclerc, definitely champion material. Vettel was a massive disappointment, as was Bottas.
MG1982 (@mg1982)
8th September 2019, 15:59
What monster are you talking about?!?! BOT recovered from a 5sec (or more) gap to finish 1sec behind LEC! If this was a rally race, highly possible LEC would be only 3rd, behind Mercedes.
iCarbs (@icarby)
8th September 2019, 16:07
@mg1982, the “monster” I’m referring to is the Ferrari car that had run its second stint on slower tyres and still kept the chasing pack at bay.
MG1982 (@mg1982)
8th September 2019, 16:27
Yeah, but it happened multiple times to Mercedes this season. In like almost every race there’s a car that is faster on the harder compound. Only last race VET on the softest compound was slower than Mercedes on used harder tyres. I think even Pirelli can’t really explain this.
iCarbs (@icarby)
8th September 2019, 16:38
@mg1982, well… If that was/is the case, Mercedes could’ve ran hards too, thinking back to when Ham did fastest lap in heavily used hards. But today they needed that speed offset. Ferrari were incredible in a straight line and if Leclerc was error free I doubt Ham would’ve got along side him.
LB (@burden93)
8th September 2019, 16:19
I think lap time wise, Mercedes were faster today (not by a huge amount/but still faster). Ultimately though, Ferrari were significantly faster in a straight line and that gets you the win in Monza. Mercedes will definitely take 2nd and 3rd though on a weaker track for them. Next race, Ferrari will struggle in Singapore and it will be between Red Bull and Mercedes again.
iCarbs (@icarby)
8th September 2019, 16:42
@burden93, wouldn’t mind seeing that data, not overly convinced that Mercs were quicker in race trim. Ham asked a few times first more power which he didn’t get, or did he?
Yusha (@freebird78)
8th September 2019, 20:37
I don’t think he did.
Ivan B (@njoydesign)
8th September 2019, 15:44
Heartbroken for Kvyat (he was the best of RB drivers today), relieved for Ferrari. A race to remember.
Panagiotis Papatheodorou (@panagiotism-papatheodorou)
8th September 2019, 15:44
Bravo to Leclerc. He maximized Ferrari’s opportunities in Spa and Monza and took 2 wins. Embarrassing by Vettel, losing it like that on his own and then coming in the track like a lunatic.
If Lewis can’t do it then Bottas can’t. Plain and simple. Good race by Max and the Renaults as well.
HUHHII (@huhhii)
8th September 2019, 15:47
Very distasteful music during the podium ceremony. F1 doesn’t need this.
baasbas
8th September 2019, 15:51
What have you got against the Italian national anthem?
;-)
HUHHII (@huhhii)
8th September 2019, 15:53
I meant that silly techno music that was played after the national anthems. No place in F1 for anything like that. It only demeaned the podium ceremonies.
Yaru
8th September 2019, 15:55
I had no issues with it.
Nulla Pax (@nullapax)
8th September 2019, 15:58
I assumed it was one of Lewis’s mixes and was picturing him giving large for the crowd :)
Phylyp (@phylyp)
8th September 2019, 16:17
@nullapax – LOL :)
kcrossle (@kcrossle)
8th September 2019, 15:59
Agree. And (in the right place) I like techno.
kcrossle (@kcrossle)
8th September 2019, 16:05
And I think it was rather crummy example too.
Carlos Medrano (@carlosmedrano)
8th September 2019, 19:45
It was a party atmosphere the music was fine
Mr G
8th September 2019, 16:12
Better than that derp F1 Theme song….
Phylyp (@phylyp)
8th September 2019, 17:00
Oh, come now, are you saying this theme is bad? :)
kcrossle (@kcrossle)
8th September 2019, 18:49
I think so. Good call.
Niefer (@niefer)
8th September 2019, 21:22
@phylyp I’d give anything to have that theme instead. LOL
Gotta side with Mr G here. The theme is so tawdry that the least bad part is when it gets like a background track.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
8th September 2019, 22:05
@niefer @kcrossle – oh, trust me, I was never a fan of the theme on day 1, and my feelings towards it haven’t improved since. Too pompous sounding for my taste, not to mention the annoying “nyeeeeeoowwww” car sounds they put in. I’m just amused by this flute theme because it’s so rubbish that it works well for memes that poke fun at funny events in F1.
Niefer (@niefer)
9th September 2019, 16:51
@phylyp
Haha, exactly!
Neil
8th September 2019, 15:50
Dodgy racing. Only got away with it cause he is driving a Ferrari at Monza
Carlos Medrano (@carlosmedrano)
8th September 2019, 19:47
Hey max gets away with driving dirty so stewards dug themselves in a hole their own fault. Just shows their is nothing special about maxs wheel to wheel now that all drivers know they can drive like that
baasbas
8th September 2019, 15:50
After this race, first thing to comment would be: what the @(*&$@*& was up with the TV director… AGAIN
Jeffrey (@jeffreyj)
8th September 2019, 15:59
Haha, yeah, it seems FOM have employed a toddler as a TV director.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
8th September 2019, 17:01
@jeffreyj – FOM TV director spotted
kcrossle (@kcrossle)
8th September 2019, 16:01
Ferrari spins! Cut to lingering shot of crowd!!
Hugh (@hugh11)
8th September 2019, 16:05
To be fair, Stroll could’ve T-boned Vettel at quite high speeds. Don’t really want to be seeing that after last week. That part I was okay with. It was the comical thing with the start replays when they stopped showing Verstappen’s replay before the interesting bit, then cut to Hulk’s replay (which in the end they didn’t even show), and then cut to Hamilton’s.
Pat
8th September 2019, 19:26
The TV director likes cliffhangers I reckon
Sloppy Shades (@sloppysmusic)
8th September 2019, 16:11
Ah yes now we can see what happened to Max under braking for the first corner….. Or maybe not..
Patrick (@anunaki)
8th September 2019, 15:51
Fun race. Leclerc got very lucky to escape a penalty for his move on Lewis. Max got 5 seconds last year for a similar move.
But it’s so much better without micromanaging stewards.
hahostolze (@hahostolze)
8th September 2019, 15:57
@anunaki between them, Leclerc and Verstappen have led to a small but important relaxing in the rules on this sort of move. Although if you believe the commenters here Verstappen is still a menace whilst Leclerc is (was) alright until it was Hamilton he was fighting
Blazzz (@blazzz)
8th September 2019, 16:30
@hahostolze Don’t really get why you have to resort to these sort of barbs. Personally I thought it was a penalty- that coupled with Leclerc weaving under braking but in the interests of racing I begrudgingly accept there was no need for a penalty.
hahostolze (@hahostolze)
8th September 2019, 17:08
@blazzz the weaving one wasn’t the one addressed here. As I stated in another comment page, I would have agreed there.
I resort to the barb because this website has a Hamilton-centric comment board. When Leclerc does something as impressive today, the focus is not on his performance, but on possibly controversial moves. It’s unnecessary. And in this case, it’s accurate – Leclerc has been doing this all season (Silverstone was far worse, for instance), but nary a peep…
Blazzz (@blazzz)
8th September 2019, 17:20
@hahostolze
Really? I can quote several users, you included, who are anti Lewis. I feel the comments thread is reasonably balanced with voices from all directions on the different drivers.
Man, I really don’t know what you are on about. While there may be some quarters criticising his defence the article and I would say most comments on here seem to acknowledge how stellar the boy’s been driving both in Belgium and in Monza. Perhaps you are just looking for things that aren’t there? IDK. Each to their own I guess.
erikje
8th September 2019, 20:33
@blazzz
that’s part of the problem. Everyone with a opinion about Lewis is “anti lewis” according to those people if it is not what they wanted to hear.
I know fans have some reality distortion, but sometimes is so obvious its disturbing and frustrating the comment section.
Blazzz (@blazzz)
8th September 2019, 20:40
@erikje
I don’t see why being a fan and being impartial have to be totally mutually exclusive. Naturally people have bias, but I would like to think by and large there are more sensible commentators than there are not. Of the “nots” it becomes obvious when certain standards are applied to some drivers and not others. Either way ultimately what matters is people having healthy debates about their different opinions- as in this case as well.
David
8th September 2019, 15:51
Let’s be honest. If Hamilton had driven as dirty as Leclerc today, everyone would be going crazy. Especially Ferrari
Yaru
8th September 2019, 15:56
Pretty much but thats sports for you.
BlueChris (@bluechris)
8th September 2019, 15:56
Its the new AV era… AV means after Verstappen…. rules and driver behavior changed by his hard driving moves on others. PV era is history and we must use to that.
Carlos Medrano (@carlosmedrano)
8th September 2019, 19:48
There are still clean drivers out there, ricciardo and hamilton still drive with honor
erikje
8th September 2019, 15:58
Agreed.
But glad the stewards only showed him the unsportsmanlike behaviour flag.
hahostolze (@hahostolze)
8th September 2019, 16:00
Really? Pretty sure everyone is only going crazy in the comments here/on Sky F1 because Hamilton is their guy. Leclerc did what he needed to. We’ve all become so boringly sanitised that this is somehow considered reckless or bad driving. Clue: it’s really not.
Bulgarian (@bulgarian)
8th September 2019, 16:13
Yes, that is the only sad thing today – Ferrari fans would “destroy” Hamilton if he had driven like Leclerc today. But at least Hamilton now knows what is allowed during the race nowadays. So, he can allow himself to become a dirtier driver in the future if he wants or feels a need to do so. F1 will have great races in the future!
Srdjan Mandic (@srga91)
8th September 2019, 16:15
Hamilton did that multiple times to Rosberg, when they were team mates (start of the 2015 US Grand Prix for example) and nobody cared.
It was one move and he receiv
Blazzz (@blazzz)
8th September 2019, 16:34
And likewise Rosberg did the same, Think back to Austria 2016 or Belgium 2014. I think the difference here between those moves and what is happening now is- with Verstappen and Leclerc it’s not just about the racing line and drifting your oppenent out of room but they are also doing it under braking. Leclerc’s engineer even told him he had received a warning about that during the battle. That is dangerous.
erikje
8th September 2019, 20:35
so at least you admit Ham did it also ;)
Blazzz (@blazzz)
8th September 2019, 20:42
@erikje
Quite. I think you would struggle to find a driver on the grid who hasn’t been on the wrong side of the stewards.
OOliver
8th September 2019, 16:34
What about weaving on the straights.
I said before, there was no specific rule on moving on the straights and trying to break a tow, only movement in the braking zone. So Hamilton vs Barichello china (few years back). Barichello said he’d never seen something like that in his life and there was an out cry. But here we saw Leclerc moving several times to break the tow.
But a wonderful win though.
I think Leclerc is a blast from the past for Ferrari and a superbly confident young driver.
Very steady pair of hands. Despite the pressure, was very consistent round the parabolica.
knightameer (@knightameer)
8th September 2019, 15:53
Amazing race by Charles. Good stewarding aswell. Lewis and Valterri did their best but eventually made mistakes. If it were Seb in Charles place today I’m sure this would have been a Mercedes 1-2. Seb really needs to figure his form out, getting beaten by a young Ricciardo in 2014 and now the exact same thing happening in 2019, puts his title winning years in doubt really..
Yaru
8th September 2019, 15:56
Why may I ask, would it put his title winning years in doubt?
Mashiat (@mashiat)
8th September 2019, 16:29
Because in the only two seasons he hasn’t had a “number 2” driver like Webber and Raikkonen, he’s been beaten fairly decisively. Which will add plenty of fuel to the fire that he was just a good driver who happened to chance upon the real genius that is Adrian Newey. Without a car that is the class of the field, Vettel hasn’t really proved that he is capable of winning consistently. Even in his championship-winning year of 2012, he only really got going once the Red Bull became the best car. Up until Singapore, when the Red Bull wasn’t the best car, he was having a fairly mediocre season, only winning one race and being 3rd the standings, basically equal on points with Webber.
Blazzz (@blazzz)
8th September 2019, 16:43
+1. When this was said during those seasons Vettel fans were up in arms. Now that the tables have turned it’s glaringly obvious. Thing is I get drivers having a bad season- Kimi in 2008, Ham in 2011, Alonso in 2015 and if you want to stretch back Hakkinen in 2001 but Vettel really isn’t doing his legacy justice being beaten by a 21 year old in only his second F1 season.
Mashiat (@mashiat)
8th September 2019, 18:21
@blazzz But the difference between Vettel in 2014 or 2019, and Alonso in 2015 or Hamilton in 2011, is that Alonso and Hamilton were still competitive and extremely quick. Alonso was the better of the two McLaren drivers that season, both in qualifying and the race, and was unlucky to finish behind Button on points due to unfortunate retirements. However, it wasn’t his best year, as was proved by 2016 when he went on to further improve relative to Button. Hamilton in 2011 was quick, certainly quicker than Button on pure pace and demolished him in qualifying head-to-head, and got 3 victories. He just lacked some consistency in races (partly due to the fragile Pirellis) and some very questionable racecraft. But the one thing is that those guys were never just plain “slow” like Vettel. I think Hakkinen might be a better example for this situation. He, like Vettel, seemed to almost fall out of love with F1 and just couldn’t muster the same level of motivation and enthusiasm after a while.
Blazzz (@blazzz)
8th September 2019, 20:44
@mashiat +1.
knightameer (@knightameer)
8th September 2019, 17:45
I was just writing the reply to the question above when I saw @mashiat reply. Precisely my point. Vettel has had 4 total team mates in F1 race winning cars. 2 of them were the ‘mediocre Webber’ and ‘past his prime Kimi’. The other two times he has had younger and upcoming drivers, he has been once beaten 3-0 on wins in 2014 and will most probably be beaten 2-0 this year.
Carlos Medrano (@carlosmedrano)
8th September 2019, 19:51
Of course he is only good with a bad teammate (webber, kimi past his prime) and dominant cars. The second he gets a good teammate or is not in the fastest car that race weekend his true skill show. Red bull hyped him up just like they are doing with max
erikje
8th September 2019, 20:39
interesting , the way you try to make it a “max” discussion every opportunity you see .
Face it, you will have some hard years to come. Max is not going anywhere and Red Bull is getting better.
And be realistic, winning races in a lesser car of by better rain performance is no hype.
BlueChris (@bluechris)
8th September 2019, 15:59
I dont doupt his titles and i really respect him as driver but there is a moment in life where we must decide as persons in proffesional sports to retire. It will be better and more healthy first to him and his family and noone will say something. You can see how Rosperg retired after many years of troumendous pressure near Hamilton and when he achieved the best result he retired.
olivenoire
8th September 2019, 16:42
Everyone knows that the weakness of Vetel is that he needs a certain type of car to be excellent and that this year Ferrari isn’t at all like that
Rockgod (@rockgod)
8th September 2019, 17:51
Do you mean the kind that’s half-a-second a lap faster than rest of the grid?
dan
8th September 2019, 15:56
@robbie claimed 2013 was just unlucky for Vettel aint it interesting he as been much faster than Webber and Raikonnen and the guys same age or younger have been quicker. What is Vet excuse this year robbie? Hamilton really has seperated himself from the 2nd most decorated driver now it is not even close. Also Vet has had 4 chances to win this year i repeat 4
Nulla Pax (@nullapax)
8th September 2019, 15:56
Delighted for Charles of course but he should expect the stewards to be a bit tougher with him in future.
Renault only did today what I was expecting them to do all season but never mind – still good work.
Albon has already proved for me that he is more worthy of the Red Bull seat if only because he tries hard.
Gutted for Lance Stroll. He is a mediocre driver at best and was doing well before Seb went insane and destroyed what chances he had.
We are getting some good races this season I reckon ;)
Phylyp (@phylyp)
8th September 2019, 16:21
@nullapax – to think I had written off this season after the first 8 races.
The championships might be over, but these last few races were fun!
Francorchamps (@francorchamps17)
8th September 2019, 15:57
All three podium finishers missed their braking at some point at the first chicane but Leclerc was the only one to cut it, disappointing from him, it definetely felt like he gained a lasting advantage.
erikje
8th September 2019, 16:21
A Ferrari on monza. Hard to give a penalty. Only when it is that stupid like vets blunder they have to penalize.
But a warning for unsportsmanlike behaviour by lec will be the max in monza.
wsrgo (@wsrgo)
8th September 2019, 17:50
@francorchamps17 I don’t think it was an advantage, he came out of the corner closer to Hamilton than he was heading into it. I think the kerbs do a good job in slowing any car down there.
dan
8th September 2019, 15:58
I never one thought Bottas would overtake Leclerc he spoiled what was a great drive look at the diff in Hamilton on Leclerc and yes he wrecked his tyres but he atleast racked the pressure on, Bottas did not even look like overtaking him. Spoilt what was a great drive by him. How is @mg1982 doing aswell, yet another mistake mate by Vettel eh.
David (@davidjwest)
8th September 2019, 15:59
Ferrari at Monza, rules don’t apply it seems, at least not if you are winning.
Rules need to be fairly applied to all competitors at all tracks or it gets a bit silly.
MG1982 (@mg1982)
8th September 2019, 16:04
Same as RBR at Spielberg?!
David (@davidjwest)
8th September 2019, 16:06
Yep. Just make the rules consistent, or it looks silly and opens up questions about bribery and favouritism etc.
a (@aaaa)
8th September 2019, 23:06
This is why it’s called “The home team advantage.”
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
8th September 2019, 15:59
I don’t question anything Seb achieved before, but I have the feeling Ferrari’s efforts will move further away from him, across the garage to LeClerc. Losing it like that, after missing the first row yesterday and then crashing into Stroll surely pulled the curtain down on his chances of still being the reference inside the team. And probably with the tifosi as well.
Glamo
8th September 2019, 16:07
After last year’s mistakes from Vet, Ferrari had nothing to lose getting Lec in… And it’s all playing out how I and many others imagined.
Nulla Pax (@nullapax)
8th September 2019, 16:08
@fer-no65 Plus Leclerc is now ahead of Vettel in the points.
Ferrari have to look to the future and support this kid all the way.
MG1982 (@mg1982)
8th September 2019, 16:17
I think Ferrari decided to reorientate their efforts when they got rid of RAI. And it was, finally, a wise decision. Now it seems they’re already focused pretty much on LEC. The way they assured LEC at Spa that VET won’t be a problem to get back P1 is a big hint.
sebsronnie (@sebsronnie)
8th September 2019, 16:56
Hint? I thought it was pretty clear he would get past him with or without the team’s help. If at all they are focused on Charles now, it is simply because he’s proved beyond reasonable doubt that he is the quicker of the two – at least in this year’s car.
MG1982 (@mg1982)
9th September 2019, 8:58
Probably. All we know for sure is that LEC would have lost time if VET wouldn’t have yielded his position without fight, time that could have costed LEC the win.
LB (@burden93)
8th September 2019, 16:00
Great Race. Impressive from Leclerc, his wheel to wheel driving style has changed since that Austria race. For me, a couple of those incidents were over the line, but you could make an argument both ways.
Where does Vettel go from here? Mistake after mistake. I feel a bit sorry for him now as his reputation is going down the drain.
Really pleased for Renault and Danny Ric, great 4th and 5th. Finally look like they are going in the right direction again.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
8th September 2019, 16:23
@burden93 – yeah, I love how he’s got his fangs out. After Austria, he said “I didn’t know that sort of move was permitted, now I know”, and boy, he has gently escalated his defensive moves after that.
erikje
8th September 2019, 16:25
knowing lec for some years: not really. He is often on the edge or crossing it.
He was quite dirty in Silverstone I. E.
And belive me, more will come!
spoutnik (@spoutnik)
8th September 2019, 16:03
Fantastic battle at the top. A bit rough at times but nothing worth a penalty in my opinion. A shame for McLaren which sees Renault make a giant step in the points. Fortunately the next races should do them more favors. As for Vettel and Stroll it was really a brainless moment 🤦♂️
Yaru
8th September 2019, 16:04
Really good symbolic and motivational win for Ferrari due breaking the 8 year Monza winless streak. Given the how the season has occurred, they kinda needed things like this.
And 2nd race win in a row for young Leclerc in the Ferrari homeland, he will cherish this moment for life.
Strategically though, Mercedes would have been the happiest here given they extended their lead over RB and Ferrari. What happened to Versteppen for today and last week would also make Hamilton happy as he is the only driver to realistically challenge him at this point even if he lost some relative points to Bottas.
David (@davidjwest)
8th September 2019, 16:04
Not sure why Merc didn’t pit Hamilton as soon as he’d lost 2nd place?
He was about 1.5 seconds a lap quicker and would probably have caught up and then been on the faster tyre, if it lasted. Certainly worth a gamble in case of a late SC surely?
Patrick (@anunaki)
8th September 2019, 16:05
Unbelievable Max slowed to 46 km/ h before turn 1 and still had overspeed on Perez damaging his front wing. They were almost standing still
Jeffrey (@jeffreyj)
8th September 2019, 16:09
CHARLES IS A LEGEND!!
This was intense, old fashioned F1 racing! Yeah, you could say he pushed Lewis wide, you could say he cut the corner and failed to lose a position and you could say he was far from mistake-free (locking up here and there and going side-ways through Ascari etc.)
However, I choose to take this perspective: here is a 21-year old kid, absolutely hounded by a 5x DWC lap after lap, after lap. He gave it his all and more, in an uneven 2 v. 1 fight and…. he won. Mad, mad respect for this kid.
a (@aaaa)
8th September 2019, 16:27
+1. @jeffreyj
It was like a slog fest in a boxing match,punch for punch.
Charles just kept taking it,Ferrari strat was good too,putting him on hard tyres knowing the fight was coming.
Jan
8th September 2019, 18:39
+1
hamiledon
8th September 2019, 19:59
+1
RocketTankski
8th September 2019, 16:18
This year seems to mark a real changing of the guard in many ways. Alonso out, Vettel fading away, Kimi and Lewis surely thinking about the future. Meanwhile Alex, George, Charles, Lance and Lando are joining Max in showing that the future of F1 racing is in good hands (even if the management might not be)
NewVerstappenFan (@jureo)
8th September 2019, 16:51
Amazing gripping race by Leclerc.
He really took a page out of Verstappen book and applied his hard earned lessons from earlier in the season.
Defense on Hamilton was brilliantly judged, to the point of penalties being offered by the stewards. He was like a Lion in Monza in a Ferrari.
Good thing Ferrari have him. Imagine 200.000 disappointed faces if all they had was Vettel. Mercedes would have an easy 1-2, crowds would boo Hamilton, we would complain of a boring race.
But no Charles restored order in Formula 1 single handedly. He is now close to Verstappen in WDC, and fight can develop.
MacLeod (@macleod)
8th September 2019, 17:11
If Charles doesn’t take care Max would let him by as he doesn’t want to the party after the season he only comes for number 1 position.
Jeffrey (@jeffreyj)
9th September 2019, 0:26
@macleod Wow, Max doesn’t care…. he’s just is sooooo cool and tough! smh.
Jorge Lardone (@jorge-lardone)
8th September 2019, 16:57
I think all connoisseurs of formula one knew that Leclerc is a driver with a great future.
He already showed it in the previous season and in this he is reaffirming it.
Obviously he is still very young but he has a bright future that will of course depend on having the good fortune to have good cars to develop his full capacity.
It is very fun to read the comments of the press and English fans. His eagerness to detract from the triumphs of Leclerc and to dirty a mark that is synonymous of the category (formula 1 does not exist without Ferrari) are the best testimony of the greatness of the pilot and the team.
Blazzz (@blazzz)
8th September 2019, 17:32
@jorge-lardone I get you are part of the Tifosi as your profile pic suggests but this a nonsensical point, no team is bigger than the sport. In fact I would say in many respects Ferrari have been holding the sport back by resisting changes to the sport that favour them just for turning up- ie the royalty payments etc. It’s a crazy system when Ferrari get more prize money than the championship winning team. If the Concorde agreement was more equal and teams got compensated according to their on track performances perhaps we wouldn’t have lost smaller teams like Brawn, Force India, Marussia etc etc and at some points even the big boys like BMW and Renault (before they re-entered obviously). So I have to disagree, very strongly.
kcrossle (@kcrossle)
8th September 2019, 19:50
Ferrari needs F1 more than F1 needs Ferrari.
hamiledon
8th September 2019, 19:55
Both Leclerc and Verstappen are better drivers than current multiple champion drivers.
Dean
9th September 2019, 10:55
Hehehe. 5 WDCs and counting suggest otherwise. They both have MUCH to learn from Lewis. Great drivers though they are.
Tenerifeman (@tenerifeman)
8th September 2019, 17:24
SEVENTH?
Ken
8th September 2019, 18:38
LeClerc earned his wings today and confirms ALO’s claim he is a star.
Nothing wrong with LEC defensive moves – they were nowhere near as aggressive as VER’s.
Hopefully, Merc/HAM’s dominance may be getting close to the end.
Time for HAM to race others than his teammate – the young guns are as good if not better in the same equipment as we saw today.
hamiledon
8th September 2019, 19:56
Exactly
Dean
9th September 2019, 10:57
Sighhhhhh. Right you are young man, right you are. Please have a look a look at the championship table for confirmation of your argument. Deary, deary me.
Carlos Medrano (@carlosmedrano)
8th September 2019, 19:13
What a race by Leclerc, almost reaching max Verstappen level of dirty defending but still deserved this win. Vettel continues to prove his critics right, finally Ferrari have a driver that can win then the championship
erikje
8th September 2019, 20:45
LEC can give lessons in dirty driving, look at his silverstone actions. And he can be proud to be the first one to receive a unsportsmanship behaviour flag for his actions.
I am afraid LEC will cross the line several times this year. Max knows how the rules work and does it on the edge. Thats the difference. But time will tell.
MG1982 (@mg1982)
9th September 2019, 9:10
Neah! If we talk about dirty, VER still is the dirtiest on the current grid. When the rules don’t cover any situation, the common sense does. Braking at Spa at +300kph in front of RAI, who was 1m behind, is more dangerous than anything LEC did so far in F1. And that is dirty. LEC it’s just racing hard, on the limit. But, I guess you got used too much of domination (McLaren, Williams, Ferrari, RBR, Mercedes etc), DRS etc and forgot about real racing.
TheTradesman (@motogpfan)
8th September 2019, 19:17
I’m just wandering why nobody is ripping the best driver on earth apart for only finishing 8th . I’m positive Lewis would be “overrated, washed up etc etc if he started last and only made it to 8th despite damage to the car
erikje
8th September 2019, 20:48
carlosmendrano is trying all the time ;)
But you have a point. His start was mediocre and his reaction tho the pile up to slow. His lost front wing was his own fault.
But the battle between VER and PER was great. He tried to pass Perez lap after lap within DRS but Perez defended, fair and square.
Niefer (@niefer)
8th September 2019, 21:32
Wow! What a race! LEC handled HAM like a boss. I didn’t think he had that on him after Austria. Glad to have seen it, because now I have no doubt he will be a WDC.
Also, what happened today at Monza is very symbolic: VET is virtually done at Maranello. There is no way he overcomes this.
JMDan (@danmar)
9th September 2019, 3:21
Dunderheads in management. Dunderheads in the pits. Dunderheads on track. Another classic race weekend for the Keystone Kops. Let’s see: Lewis could stay 0.5 seconds or so behind Charles around the track yet couldn’t pass him with DRS? DRS is becoming increasingly useless as a car using it can’t pass a car not using it. Bottas is as useless as DRS. And I like Bottas. Great race for Renault finally. Sebastian doing his best to disappoint. Lance defends Seb for ruining his race: I swear most Canadians are NOT like that. Was Kimi driving under the influence? All in all the comedy aspect of it made for an entertaining race. I hope Williams go with Latifi next year. Would be nice to see two Canadians on track. A rare sight indeed.