F1 teams must make 23-race schedule “sustainable for our people” – Seidl

32 comments on “F1 teams must make 23-race schedule “sustainable for our people” – Seidl”

1. 

   Mike (@suwperman)
   4th November 2021, 4:14

   I get what COTD is trying to say, but how is liberty, a huge corporation, expected to love f1. This is business for them. Revenue has to be the motivation or else they wouldn’t be able to afford f1 in the first place. And at least they actually try to grow and expand the sport. Some previous owners never even bothered
   1. 

      S
      4th November 2021, 6:12

      The hint is in the name of their position.
      Commercial Rights Holder….

      I’ve never heard them referred to as ‘Sporting Integrity Administrator,’ ‘Tradition and History Curator’ and certainly not ‘Gimmick Elimination Commissioner’…
      Of course it’s about money for Liberty.
      1. 

         Biggsy
         4th November 2021, 10:38

         That’s all great, but then we come to the question I’ve been asking for well over a decade:

         Why is Commercial Rights Holder driving the sporting, regulatory etc side of the sport?

         I thought the whole reason FIA had to “lease” F1 commercial rights, is because there could be a conflict of interest if one party got to run both sides of the show.
         (Mind you, it’s been sham even when they “separated” it between Bernie and Mosley)

         The way it stands now, we get FOM deciding on pretty much everything. They are setting the direction of the sport in terms of technical rules and regulations, as well as many sporting and racing related issues.
   2. 

      James Coulee
      4th November 2021, 8:42

      Indeed: nobody would buy F1 for 4.6 billion dollars and say “let’s do this for love”… :)
2. 

   MarcusAurelius (@marcusaurelius)
   4th November 2021, 6:04

   The GBA engine you see here is believed to have been one made for Team Haas to use in the 1986 Formula 1 season.

   Am I missing something? Haas in F1 in 1986?

   Going to Google that now…
   1. 

      Red Andy (@red-andy)
      4th November 2021, 6:07

      A different Haas. Carl, not Gene.
3. 

   S
   4th November 2021, 6:07

   Yes, Seidl – you are responsible for making your F1 team manageable and sustainable for your own employees. It’s not up to Liberty or the FIA to manage your HR for you.
   Maybe F1 teams should look up the meaning of the word ‘roster’… You’d think at least one of them would have wandered into a McDonalds restaurant some time in the last 30 years and wondered how they manage to stay open 24/7/365…
   1. 

      Tristan (@skipgamer)
      4th November 2021, 7:03

      Huh? That’s what he’s saying… Didn’t say anything about wanting liberty or FIA to manage it.

      At least he’s being more diplomatic about it than Tost who’s answer is if you don’t like it then leave.
      1. 

         S
         4th November 2021, 9:27

         Exactly @skipgamer.
         I can’t even count the number of times people have jumped on here and argued that team staff health and morale is being damaged by having too many races when it is complete bull. If the team members are struggling, it has absolutely nothing to do with the calendar and everything to do with team HR management.
         If there were only 16 races instead of 23+ they’d still be working all the time. Perhaps more so, as they generally aren’t working too hard while on a plane.

         And I totally agree with Tost anyway. If you aren’t prepared to work in that privileged environment, then don’t. Simple.
         I don’t expect my industry to contract or shut down completely just because my personal priorities change and neither should they. Get out and let someone more interested and dedicated do it.
         1. 

            Alfie
            4th November 2021, 9:49

            Engineers, media and marketing people also work when they’re on the plane. And in their hotel rooms. And in airports.
   2. 

      drmouse (@drmouse)
      4th November 2021, 8:52

      I would suggest it’s a little different staffing an F1 team, where the majority of staff are highly skilled, highly intelligent and highly paid, to staying a fast food franchise. In addition, fast food workers aren’t generally expected to fly to over 20 different countries in a year or work under the intense pressure of a sporting competition.

      That said, Seidl is saying here that the bigger calendar is great, and he and the teams now just need to make sure their employees are taken care of. I don’t really understand your combative tone…
      1. 

         jff
         4th November 2021, 9:35

         it’s a little different staffing an F1 team, where the majority of staff are highly skilled, highly intelligent and highly paid, to [staffing] a fast food franchise.

         Food poisoning kills more people than F1 ;)
      2. 

         S
         4th November 2021, 10:06

         The principles of HR management are not industry-dependent, @drmouse. Humans are basically the same no matter which industry they work in.
         Flying/travelling is a privilege – if they don’t like it or if it’s too hard for them, see Franz Tost’s comment.
         Even just working – in any industry – is becoming a privilege for many in modern times.

         My ‘combative tone’ is directed at any and every comment that argues that the length of the calendar is a burden on team members when it isn’t. Individual team management is – and shortening the calendar won’t improve the situation.
         Seidl’s comment comes off as some kind of revelation or awakening, when it should really go without saying, and always should have.
         1. 

            Jason (@jasonj)
            4th November 2021, 11:07

            100% agree. I can’t understand how apparently die hard F1 fans complain about too many races. Not every individual is necessary at every race if the calendar expands to 40 races a year we’d get A crews, B crews, C crews etc. Rotation of staff is completely normal.
         2. 

            drmouse (@drmouse)
            4th November 2021, 11:44

            Humans are basically the same no matter which industry they work in.

            But ways of working are significantly different, as are alternative opportunities and staff costs, such that a technique from one industry will not necessarily just transplant straight to another. It may be too expensive, or it may encourage the high quality staff you want to keep to leave.

            Flying/travelling is a privilege

            Have you ever been expected to travel regularly for work? I have, and I can tell you it is neither “a privilege” nor fun (at least for me and all but a small handful of others I have spoken to). It’s a necessary part of some jobs, true, but it takes you away from your friends/family, vastly reduces the non-work time you get to experience, and generally degrades your overall quality of life.

            Even just working – in any industry – is becoming a privilege for many in modern times.

            True enough, but unlikely the case for most in the F1 paddock. I strongly suspect that the vast majority would be able to walk into a job elsewhere at the drop of a hat. They are privileged to work in F1, and most probably do so for the love of the sport, which is enough to balance out the (significant) downsides. However, F1 rarely employ anyone who isn’t the among the best in their field, and the best will always have other options.

            My ‘combative tone’ is directed at any and every comment that argues that the length of the calendar is a burden on team members when it isn’t. Individual team management is – and shortening the calendar won’t improve the situation.

            More races means either less downtime for all team members and less time at home, or more staff. Given that the cost cap includes most staffing costs, extra staff means less money to spend on the car, which increases the pressure on the team members to find ways to do more with less…

            Seidl’s comment comes off as some kind of revelation or awakening

            Maybe that’s the issue, as they don’t to me. They come across as a manager explaining that they are doing more to help their staff, looking for ways to improve things for them, to me. That’s not a bad thing: The majority of managers I have come across only “look after their staff” to the absolute bare minimum they can get away with. Maybe it should never have become a “selling point” that employees are cared for, but in the world we currently live in, where most aren’t, it is a major consideration.
            1. 

               S
               4th November 2021, 12:23

               But ways of working are significantly different

               But the humans themselves are the same. When we’re fatigued, we’re fatigued – that doesn’t change depending on which job we are doing.

               Have you ever been expected to travel regularly for work?

               For many years, my work was entirely reliant on travelling. Sure, it wasn’t always fun, but I could have been stuck doing some mind-numbing paperwork in a city office or something else equally unattractive instead. I chose my preference, inclusive of its downsides. As did you, as do F1 team members. It wasn’t the work which took me away from my family, it was my choices which took me away from my family.
               I no longer do that particular work because it no longer suits my life preferences.

               More races means either less downtime for all team members and less time at home, or more staff.

               Choices. Compromise. That’s life.
               Most F1 teams have been going through these things all along. Only the few biggest teams have never had to make those sacrifices. Now they do and they aren’t used to it.

               The majority of managers I have come across only “look after their staff” to the absolute bare minimum they can get away with.

               As F1 team managers do too. That’s how capitalism works – make more, spend less.
               Equally, individual workers need to recognise their own part in this. If they are working too much or too hard, they need to say so. Not just demand more money – money doesn’t stop you burning out from being overworked and overstressed. And if the manager doesn’t care – walk. Life is too short.
4. 

   Aapje (@aapje)
   4th November 2021, 8:23

   Would there be a story about an Extreme E engineer and driver if they weren’t women?
   1. 

      drmouse (@drmouse)
      4th November 2021, 8:54

      Would there be a comment questioning the validity of an article about an Extreme E engineer if they weren’t a woman?
      1. 

         Aapje (@aapje)
         4th November 2021, 11:01

         @drmouse

         Quite possibly. Many commenters here are very good at criticism.

         Anyway, isn’t it telling that you had to resort to a hypothetical?
         1. 

            drmouse (@drmouse)
            4th November 2021, 11:16

            @aapje
            How is my comment any more hypothetical than yours?

            There is every chance there would have been an article about a promising new engineer and/or driver in Extreme E (or any other series), given that similar articles pop up on here fairly often. However, it’s highly unlikely anyone would have made any comment about their gender if they had been male…
            1. 

               Aapje (@aapje)
               4th November 2021, 12:44

               @drmouse

               The absence of stories about other engineers at a similar level is not a hypothetical. The way we would respond to such stories is.

               There is every chance there would have been an article about a promising new engineer and/or driver in Extreme E (or any other series), given that similar articles pop up on here fairly often.

               Your comment is deceptive because you conflate drivers with engineers, but Racefans treats engineers very differently from drivers. And even then it is clear to me that female drivers get far more attention than male drivers with similar achievements.

               However, it’s highly unlikely anyone would have made any comment about their gender if they had been male…

               Of course, because male engineers (and drivers) don’t get disproportionate attention to their achievements. If the media would ignore gender, I wouldn’t have to point out how we’re being manipulated on that front.
            2. 

               drmouse (@drmouse)
               4th November 2021, 14:33

               @aapje

               Females in motorsport do sometimes get more media attention when they do well than men at the same level, this is true. However, that’s because there are fewer of them by a large margin. It is newsworthy that a woman has achieved even a minor success in a sport where there are so few females, whereas it is a regular occurrence that “the son of a billionaire has bought a seat”, again.

               That said, stories do pop up on here fairly often of minor successes of men in other series. What we don’t get, then, are comments about the drivers (or engineers etc) gender. The comments are generally made about their abilities and talent. As soon as a woman gets coverage, though, the focus of many is on their gender. Here, for example, you made absolutely zero mention of the skills or abilities either Gade or Gilmour, or anything else about them. You just jumped straight to “they are only on here because they are women”. Why is that?
            3. 

               Aapje (@aapje)
               4th November 2021, 15:03

               @drmouse

               As soon as a woman gets coverage, though, the focus of many is on their gender.

               I disagree. That is only true if there is bias in the reporting, which is often the case. The resistance to that bias is used to justify that bias, so we just get stuck in this loop.

               You can see for yourself that no one focused on the gender of Antonia Terzi after the recent story on her passing. That story didn’t appear biased and as a result, no one complained. Pretty simple, really.

               Here, for example, you made absolutely zero mention of the skills or abilities either Gade or Gilmour, or anything else about them. You just jumped straight to “they are only on here because they are women”. Why is that?

               Because it’s obvious. How many of the other race engineers in Extreme E have we’ve been told about? Just one and it’s explicitly in the context of her gender. You complain that we discuss the gender if women are featured, but you don’t seem to apply the same standards to the stories themselves.

               And Gilmour is obviously not up to par with Tanner. Nearly all of her driving is local to New Zealand and even there, the results are not as good as Tanner achieved in more challenging competitions.
         2. 

            Hazel Southwell (@hazelsouthwell)
            5th November 2021, 6:20

            @aapje

            The context in which Gade’s appointment was mentioned was not gender, it was in a highly respected engineer, who has worked in single seaters (including for the IndyCar team that now run McLaren’s entry) being appointed to a team run by a popular F1 entrant.

            If you never want to read mentions of women then I suggest you do not follow a sport in which we are allowed to be employed or compete.
   2. 

      S
      4th November 2021, 9:37

      Not here
5. 

   Hazel Southwell (@hazelsouthwell)
   4th November 2021, 8:38

   @aapje if Rob Smedley or someone equivalent joins an Extreme E team run by an F1 and IndyCar team then yes. The story was about Gade, as she’s an incredibly well respected engineer in motorsport.
   1. 

      Aapje (@aapje)
      4th November 2021, 10:43

      @hazelsouthwell

      Smedley was a race engineer for a top team in F1. He then became head of vehicle performance at Williams. Now he has a senior position at the Formula One Group. This is not equivalent to just being a race engineer at a lower level series like WEC.

      There are quite a few engineers at a similar level to Gade that never get any attention from Racefans. When it comes to engineers, Racefans seems to normally only take notice once they become prominent in F1 or are very senior.

      But I guess that your reporting is appropriate in a way, since Extreme E also judges people by their gender, rather than talent (see the driver roster, with for example, a rather stark contrast between the X44 drivers, in experience and results).
      1. 

         Hazel Southwell (@hazelsouthwell)
         4th November 2021, 11:12

         @aapje to suggest that leading the dominant Audi LMP1 team to three Le Mans wins is “lesser” is simply woeful snobbery.

         McLaren are a team that people are very interested in, a very senior person – who, amongst other things, is the head of the FIA’s GT commission and a significant figure across motorsport’s technical governance – being appointed to them is perfectly worthy of a report. Especially as most outlets had chosen to lead with Gilmour, not Gade.
         1. 

            Aapje (@aapje)
            4th November 2021, 12:36

            @hazelsouthwell

            to suggest that leading the dominant Audi LMP1 team to three Le Mans wins is “lesser” is simply woeful snobbery.

            The very fact that the Audi was so dominant for so long shows that the series was not as competitive as F1. You provide the counterargument to your claim in the very same sentence…

            Especially as most outlets had chosen to lead with Gilmour, not Gade.

            Yeah, like Motorsport.com, who reported that she’s the first female McLaren driver, but without noting that it’s mandatory for the teams to field a female driver, so it was a given that they would get a female driver, once they decided to participate in Extreme E.

            The motorsport story is therefor also propaganda, withholding information that is rather important, deceiving the readers. Of course, you left it out too…
            1. 

               Hazel Southwell (@hazelsouthwell)
               4th November 2021, 18:06

               @aapje Not an omission, I simply credited you with the knowledge of the series, which you clearly have. It was a short piece, focussed on a very highly respected engineer.

               Women participate in motorsport and will be mentioned, as with male participants. The vast majority of articles on this website are about men – but, as with the skew of numbers in motorsport – there will be some about women.
      2. 

         Carbonized
         4th November 2021, 17:10

         That is the biggest load of…. I have read in a while. Her achievements speak for themself. Leena never asked to be propped up, it just appended that she found herself kind of an unwitting pioneer in her profession because she was ultra competent and successful at it in a male dominated environment. It raised eyebrows and sinc then the media is fallowing her moves like they would of any Smedley (you brought up is name).

         “The very fact that the Audi was so dominant for so long shows that the series was not as competitive as F1. ”

         You are talking as if Peugeot and Toyota never existed, and by the way what has Mercedes being doing lately that has everybody complaining? Dominating? Speaking of Lower series, has Smedley (you brought up is name) ever engineered a V12 diesel powered car for 24 hrs? A feat that Leena repeated later with an hybrid powerplant that would make an F1 race engineer cry (F1 don’t drive 4 wheels)
         Leena has been dealing with detractors all of her professional life. She doesn’t need someone like me to come to her defense. I am very lucky to have once called her a colleague . Respect.
6. 

   Jere (@jerejj)
   4th November 2021, 11:20

   Seidl is correct, but everything has a limit, such as staff rotation, which is possible, but not unlimitedly.

   Time will tell if COTD’s vision occurs.

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