F1

Does Martin Whitmarsh favour Button over Hamilton?

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Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 34 total)
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  • #210955
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I find it hard to believe that a team such as McLaren would pursue a driver on marketability rather than the ability to win races. At the end of the day, teams are there to race and there to win races, what benefit would it have for them to pursue marketability whereas they need a driver to win to further their reputation. Yes, there are some cases where good marketing will help a team attract sponsors, but nothing surely it’s not as good as the team’s history and ability to produce cars that win races.

    McLaren is no different to a large company. There are processes, procedures, expectations of employees and values. These are put in place to ensure consistency, and when the company is inconsistent with the employee then it is obvious that there will be friction. I still believe that it’s McLarens’ insistence on keeping the original trophies that is withholding the contract signing.

    #210956
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    So by that rationale, Kimi shouldn´t even be in F1
    Right, because having an ice cream when the race was suspended is in the same category as lying to the stewards as to whether or not you passed another car under safety car conditions.

    #210957
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    @Prisoner-Monkeys

    is in the same category as lying to the stewards as to whether or not you passed another car under safety car conditions.

    I understand but have you taken into consideration that the team might have told him to lie about it just as the team has told him to lie about the fuel issues in Quali and other sort of stuff? I sense that everybody holds McLaren high in regards to sportsmanship but at the end of the day, everybody cheats and lies in order to win. Some cover things up better than others but everybody has cheated. I think you´re being a bit harsh on the guy… Personally I could care less since I´m not a Hamilton or McLaren fan but I am against a team that favours a less talented driver as is the case in McLaren… @vho said it well that

    At the end of the day, teams are there to race and there to win races

    That I think should be the priority… About Lewis tweeting the telemetry thing…. well, it might be “unprofessional” behaviour on his behalf but wouldn´t you be ticked off if they where making the other guy look better than you when you know that just isn´t true? All in all, I think that Lewis just doesn´t feel respected as he should be and is annoyed at the fact that Button is getting better treatment… BTW, I don´t think the trophy deal is what is keeping the signing taking place…

    #210958
    sebsronnie
    Participant

    @Prisoner-Monkeys, I simply cannot understand your animosity for this guy!

    1. The telemetry issue: so all the rival engineers understand exactly how the upgrade works? Really? And so how has this benefited them – last time I checked, the Mclaren was still the fastest (pole for the last few races). All the telemetry did was give guys like you ammunition to fire at the guy in a year in which he was starving you of the same. By the way, we still don’t know the real story behind Hamilton ending up with that wing.

    2. One controversy or the other – aren’t you tired of pulling out 4 year old stories yet? Take the so called lie-gate for example, why does everyone forget that Trulli actually spun or something and so Hamilton had no option but to pass him. Why do you always talk about it as though he deliberately overtook him? And then the post-race issues – have you forgotten a guy called Dave Ryan?

    3. Constantly crashing into other drivers in 2011 – yes, he had his fair share of crashes but are you suggesting they were ALL his fault?

    4. Immaturity – really? Bloody stupid – REALLY?

    As far as value is concerned, I say give me Hamilton over everyone bar Alonso & Vettel any day. Any day.

    As an aside, for all those that continuously take delight in putting Lewis down – consider what Webber said on Saturday after qualifying regarding starting alongside Romain: ‘I have a very good right hook’. Just imagine if it were Lewis saying that and imagine the torrent of comments that would have ensued. This guy simply can’t seem to get a break from the likes of @Prisoner-Monkeys and a one @Tete…

    #210959
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    I simply cannot understand your animosity for this guy!

    Because I don’t think Hamilton’s talent and speed are so great that his behaviour should be over-looked.

    Constantly crashing into other drivers in 2011 – yes, he had his fair share of crashes but are you suggesting they were ALL his fault?

    The standing majority were.

    Immaturity – really? Bloody stupid – REALLY?

    Yes. He’s done things with little thought for the consequences and embarrassed himself and others in the process.

    Just imagine if it were Lewis saying that and imagine the torrent of comments that would have ensued.

    The difference is that Mark Webber said it in good humour. If Hamilton said it, it would be perceived as a threat.

    #210960
    Pamphlet
    Participant

    @Prisoner-Monkeys – Why do off-track behavior and racing prowess have to mix together? If you’re good, you’re good. Who cares if he doesn’t behave the way the fanbase expects him to? They’re not the ones that are paying him, his team are.

    He’s been quite fine on the track this year. Aside from the incident with Maldonado he’s pretty much made up for the (huge number of) mistakes that he made in 2011.

    #210961
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    @Prisoner-Monkeys

    The difference is that Mark Webber said it in good humour. If Hamilton said it, it would be perceived as a threat.

    Why? Because he´s black?? XD

    #210962
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    No, because of the way he’s behaved in the past – like the infamous “don’t touch me, man!” moment.

    If you’re good, you’re good. Who cares if he doesn’t behave the way the fanbase expects him to? They’re not the ones that are paying him, his team are.

    I’d say the team care about how he behaves.

    #210963
    AdrianMorse
    Participant

    @sebsronnie, @prisoner-monkeys, yes, get your facts straight PM. In the 2009 Australian Grand Prix, Trulli went off the track behind the safety car and Hamilton passed him – legitimately. Hamilton then went on the radio to ask his team for advice. They told him – erroneously – that he had to let Trulli by, which he did. I suppose that when the team later realised their misinterpretation of the rule book, they instructed Hamilton to tell the stewards that Trulli had overtaken him behind the safety car. Not Lewis’s finest hour, for sure, but McLaren are hardly going to let him go over that.

    #210964
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    Not Lewis’s finest hour, for sure, but McLaren are hardly going to let him go over that.

    But it’s not just that. If it were an isolated incident, I’d let it go. But it’s not. Hamilton lied to the stewards. He uploaded telemetry to the internet where rival teams could see it. He accused Kamui Koabayshi of dangerous driving without watching a replay when the two came together at Spa last year, then had to sheepishly retract his comments once he did watch the replay, which clearly showed the collision to be his fault. He’s repeatedly posted things on Twitter that the team has asked him to remove because of the language he uses. And so on, and so forth.

    #210965
    AdrianMorse
    Participant

    @prisoner-monkeys, I don’t know which interview you saw after Spa 2011, but I only recall him saying something along the lines of “I was in front and don’t know what happened”. I’m pretty certain he didn’t point the finger squarely at Kobayashi. Therefore I don’t think he had to “sheepishly retract his comments”. He apologised to Kobayashi for making a mistake and I don’t see how you can hold that against him. Finally, as for the collision being “clearly his fault”, David Coulthard didn’t think so after analysing the footage, and I don’t think so either. Hamilton was at fault for squeezing Kobayashi (because he was looking at the corner entry) but Kobayashi could have not turned in when there was a car to his right. I expected to find more footage than this online, but I guess FOM took it all off: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L7sn5wvNnA

    #210966
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    Accusing Kobayashi was Hamilton’s immediate reaction. By the time the camera crews caught up with him, he had the far more neutral and non-committal “I don’t know what happened”, probably because someone told him that he hadn’t seen an interview. He later admitted his part in the accident.

    As for the crash, I suggest you watch it again. At the time of the impact, Hamilton is moving left – but he was at the point where he should have been turning into the corner already.

    #210967
    AdrianMorse
    Participant

    Accusing Kobayashi was Hamilton’s immediate reaction.

    That could be true; isn’t that a racing driver’s first reaction anyway?

    By the time the camera crews caught up with him, he had the far more neutral and non-committal “I don’t know what happened”

    So where do you get his initial reaction from? You were at Les Combes shouting:” Hey Lewis, whose fault do you think this was”?

    I did not deny Hamilton shared blame in the incident, but if you pause the video at 0:02, you see that Kobayashi is looking at Hamilton’s car, and starting turn-in. Eddie Jordan’s reaction at the time was “where was Kobayashi supposed to go, onto the grass?” But there was still a little bit of track to the right of Kamui’s car, and plenty of kerb. He could have chosen to put his car there, rather than risk a high-speed accident, with a car that was ahead of him.

    I did look at the video again; certainly from the second (above) and third (onboard) videos I do not conclude that Hamilton should have been turning in already.

    #210968
    sid90
    Member

    Accusing Kobayashi was Hamilton’s immediate reaction. By the time the camera crews caught up with him, he had the far more neutral and non-committal “I don’t know what happened”, probably because someone told him that he hadn’t seen an interview.

    @prisoner-monkeys These are all your assumptions, you cannot start an argument and bring what you fantasised what happened. Do you have any facts that this actually occurred?

    #210969
    matt90
    Participant

    “He accused Kamui Koabayshi of dangerous driving without watching a replay when the two came together at Spa last year, then had to sheepishly retract his comments once he did watch the replay, which clearly showed the collision to be his fault.”

    You do realise that you’re describing almost every incident ever?

    And I’m sorry PM, but your recollection of the incident isn’t quite right.

    “At the time of the impact, Hamilton is moving left – but he was at the point where he should have been turning into the corner already.”

    This is clearly false. For one thing, part of the reason that the accident happened is that he didn’t have a clue that Kobayashi was still near him, so why would he be intentionally squeezing him? I don’t have any reason to disbelieve him saying this. For another, watch the onboard- does that really look to you like he should have turned in already? Perhaps if he wanted to miss the apex by driving into the armco on the other side of the track. He should be turning in around the moment that he makes contact with Kobayashi. But he’s obviously a bit pre-occupied at that point.

    Evidence:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nzJ0SjP1OA
    Watch around the 37 second mark- he doesn’t turn in until past the point where Hamilton made contact with Kobayashi.

    I actually agree that it was Hamilton’s fault, but you’ve blown that incident out of proportion by accusing him of petulance for that particular incident (when he behaved like every F1 driver ever) and of driving that corner differently to try and intimidate Kobayashi, which is blatantly false- he just stupidly didn’t realise Kobayashi was actually alongside him.

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