Hulkenberg signed 2012 race deal after Korean Grand Prix
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How can I respect his talent when I can’t respect his attitude?
Seriously? I don’t like Michael Schumacher at all, and around ten years ago I right-down hated him. Yet I can and could still clearly see his talent and his skills behind the wheel.
You should give Hulkenberg the credit he deserves and show some objectivism.
It’s also worth remembering that Hülkenberg ended his association with Weber half way through 2011. Perhaps he realised a bad decision had been made on his behalf in 2010, and wanted to take control of his own affairs. A few months later he had signed for Force India.
Managers don’t made decisions for drivers. They are there to help drivers make the best decisions, and to work out the details of an arrangement. But the final say rests with the driver. So Weber couldn’t simply approach Frank Williams and say “No, we don’t want to find sponsors” without consulting Hulkenberg. Even if he put the idea that Hulkenberg deserved to be judged on his talent and his talent alone, Hulkenberg still has to agree with it. Given than Willi Weber was once Michael Schumacher’s manager, he had to know the state that Williams was in at the time. They were losing four major sponsors in one go, and they knew it was coming. There is no way Weber could have missed that, because it was obvious to anyone who looked at the team. So I find it strange that, despite all of this, Weber somehow encouraged Hulkenberg not to find sponsors. That’s just bordering on incompetence.
I suspect what happened was that Hulkenberg had had Williams’ support all through his junior career. They got him through F3 and GP2, and he regularly worked on their simulator and was their test and reserve driver. He’d been a part of the team for years, but then they asked him to find sponsors. Williams then asked him for sponsors, but Hulkenberg, who had had his career mapped out for him up until this point was caught off-guard. He may have parted ways with Weber when he realised he had made a huge mistake and could have raced in 2011.
But wherever the ultiamte responsibility lies, you can’t deny that a rookie driver saying “I deserve to be judged on my talent and my talent alone” is an incredibly arrogant move. Sure, every driver deserves to be judged on his talent, and Formula 1 would probably be far more competitive if the twenty-four most talented men in the world were racing. But the accepted reality is that drivers find sponsors. Drivers have sponsors. The stigma of the pay driver is gone because the demand for a superlicence and the extended and staggered feeder series mean that a driver has to a least have a little bit of talent before Formula 1 teams will pay attention to him. And a driver as highly-rated as Nico Hulkenberg should have had no problems finding sponsors. He was in the best possible position for a driver to be – plenty of talent and potential, working with an established and respected team, represented by one of the most prominent managers in the sport, and the occasional result that piqued everyone’s curiosity – and he still said no. Something obviously went horribly wrong, and I think the most likely culprit is Hulkenberg himself. Whether he was naive (at best) or arrogant (at worst) he threw it all away. So despite all the planets aligning in his favour, it was his attitude that meant he lost his season for 2011.
Alonso and Schumacher are, or were, arrogant. I don’t like their attitudes one bit. I still respect them as two of the best drivers the world has ever seen
Well, we evidently value different things. I simply cannot respect someone’s ability or talent if their attitude is not there. Like last year – I lost a lot of respect for Lewis Hamilton simply because I felt he didn’t respect other drivers. How can I respect his talent when he doesn’t use it for good? Likewise, how can I respect Hulkenberg. He demanded respect, but he didn’t command it.
You either don’t want to admit he is talented, or you completely fail to notice the talent. And that shouldn’t have anything to do with his personality and one’s opinion about him.
One statement of “I deserve to be judged on my talent and my talent alone” doesn’t make for an arrogant person, i’m yet to see any factual evidence that Nico is arrogant, extremely confident? yes, but then every driver on the grid is extremely confident in their own ability.
Also, to say Nico’s career has been “mapped out” for him is a bit naive, Williams would of helped him but he still had to put in the performances, and he did it in very impressive fashion, in pretty much every formula he raced in. Out performing Rubens in the last 9 races of 2010 along with those 2 laps in Brazil showed he was getting to grips with F1.
I suspect you’re in for a surprise this season if you don’t think Nico is a hugely talented driver.
Talent can be independent of attitude. You don’t have to respect attitude to admire talent. I didn’t (still don’t particularly) like Alonso or Schumacher’s attitude. The idea of denying them as being talented as a result is ludicrous.
You either don’t want to admit he is talented, or you completely fail to notice the talent. And that shouldn’t have anything to do with his personality and one’s opinion about him.
I think that whatever talent he has is undermined by his poor attitude.
I think Michael Schumacher is arrogant, and I really like Karun Chandhok’s personality. Using your logic, I think it’s fair to say that Karun is the slightly more talented of the two.
I didn’t say that attitude defines talent, like they’re mutually inclusive. I said that attitude can undermine talent. It doesn’t matter how talented you are – if you have a bad attitude about it, it’s going to cost you in the long run. It hurt Nico Hulkenberg in 2011, just as it hurt Michael Schumacher in 1997. Maybe it hurt them in different ways, but that their attitude came back to bite them is the important point.
Let’s get one thing straight @prisoner-monkeys – attitude can undermine talent, FOR YOU. Not all people value the same things, as you said. For me, other than work ethic, they could be Mr. Congeniality off track, but if your driving doesn’t cut the mustard, I don’t care much for personality. You can be Mr. *ssh*l* off track, but if you can drive, I couldn’t care less. I view “Mr. X the F1 driver” and “Mr. X the person” as two separate entities.
The only super outstanding thing Nico did in 2010 was Brazil Q3. But outqualifying Vettel in a Red Bull, by 1.1s is nothing to shake a stick at. It’s like a guy opening a computer store getting more revenue than Microsoft for a month. Sure it’s only a month, but how the h*ll did he do it!?
attitude can undermine talent, FOR YOU.
I’m aware of that. And I never said anything differently. I have simply been defending my stance, because some people seem to think that talent commands respect regardless of the attitude. I don’t think that’s the case. I think Nico Hulkenberg has the worst attitude of any driver that I have seen in a very long time, and that his attitude is enough to negate any respect his talent might command.
some people seem to think that talent commands respect regardless of the attitude. I don’t think that’s the case.
That’s my point. To each their own. It’s not the case for you, and I respect that. But it is the case for others; and you should let them feel that way. You don’t like Hulkenberg’s talent; and that has completely dispelled any notion of talent that he may have had, in your eyes. We get it. Let others have their own opinion too.
the worst attitude of any driver that I have seen in a very long time
I know this debate has gone on for too long already, and that you are entitled to your opinion, but what exactly do you have to back that up? As I mentioned before, when I searched for stories about Hülkenberg’s attitude, nearly all of the results were posts by you, and the only reason you have given for it your view is that he didn’t seek out sponsors for himself to stay at Williams. There must be more to it than that.
Well, I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who thinks Hulkenberg is overrated. He had such promise, some were even saying he would have a Lewis Hamilton style impact in 2010. He was very poor and I’m saddened Force India even signed him, never mind three races prior to the end, which were great drives by Sutil.
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