Video: Vettel’s ’yellow flag’ overtakes
- 29th November 2012, 10:19 at 10:19 am #216107
The flag in lap 3 was green and there is an onboard video from ALO car at lap 4 that seems a green flag29th November 2012, 10:23 at 10:23 am #216108mnmracerParticipant
We know there was a yellow flag-situation in the corner, thus, there must be a follow-up flag at the first post after the corner.29th November 2012, 10:24 at 10:24 am #21610929th November 2012, 10:31 at 10:31 am #216110
Yellow should be followed by a Green. Yellow and Red (I assume you’re meaning the Slippery Surface/Debris Flag) does not need the next flag point to display a certain colour and if there’s a Red Flag out on circuit, all points should be Red.
I really don’t know how to explain this more than I already have.
The situation we have here is a Yellow Light on drivers right, and a debatable flag on drivers left. If it is a Green Flag being displayed on the drivers left then the pass is legal, no questions asked, there’s always going to be a delay in the timing and reactions of the lights. If, for some reason (A reason that is unknown to me) the sector needs to be under Yellow Flag Conditions, then the whole “Floppy Markers” situation comes into it, which is what I explained earlier. (I can draw a diagram if it’ll help some people wrap their minds around it.) Either way, the pass, down to where it happened on the circuit and ignoring what flags people think they see, is legal.
Now, people can argue about what flag was waved, and what the .gif did or didn’t show till the cows come home, it doesn’t really change the facts of this so called “Incident”.29th November 2012, 10:42 at 10:42 am #216111Prisoner MonkeysParticipant
I’m still not convinced. If that green flag was being displayed in response to Maldonado’s retirement, then I think the flag marshall might have been showing the wrong flag. His station is simply too close to the site of Maldonado’s off the area to be under green flag conditions.
I was also under the impression that when a car goes off and flags are shown, race control monitors the scene of the accident and instructs which flags are to be shown and when. They would also have control over the timing loops and digital boards and drivers’ displays. If they tell a marshall to show a flag and the digital boards and car display don’t change straight away, then that sounds like a serous problem in the procedure. This is Formula 1 we’re talking about – the technology used should be first-class. It’s doubly worrying because the DRS system uses timing loops to measure when drivers are within a second of each other. These can be turned on or off and the effects felt immediately, so why can’t race control change the digital flags and driver displays straight away as well?29th November 2012, 10:44 at 10:44 am #216112
@prisoner-monkeys It seems that even if Alonso would say that there was a green flag you still won’t be convinced29th November 2012, 10:46 at 10:46 am #216113
AMuS say Charlie Whiting has told them Vettel’s pass was legal:29th November 2012, 10:47 at 10:47 am #216114Soph MorganMember
Vettel overtook after the yellows and between the green signals. There is no case to answer here and the FIA will undoubtedly through this appeal out.29th November 2012, 10:51 at 10:51 am #216115Prisoner MonkeysParticipant
@oletros – Well, no, but that’s mostly because Alonso was further down the road at the time. The flags being shown could have changed in the time between his passing though and Vettel’s, and again in the time between Vettel passing through on that lap and Alonso passing through on the next.
I’m just going off what people are posting here. And based on what I’m reading, I can see a system that is deeply flawed, with the application of the rules being contradictory when the rules themselves aren’t clear. Which is distrubing, given that this relates to safety in motorsport. But I suspect that some of the people I’ve picked ideas up from – I’m not singling anyone out here, mind you – don’t understand what is going on nearly as well as they think they do. I know I certainly don’t.
Nevertheless, this has been a divisive issue at best, and not just here; the wider internet is full of arguments and conspiracy theories (my favourite one being that the entire video is Photoshopped to make Vettel look guilty). I think the FIA are certainly going to have to issue a clarification on this one, however they decide to act (and that includes deciding not to act as well).29th November 2012, 10:51 at 10:51 am #216116
I’m not 100% sure where the incident is in relation to the Flag Point in question, however, unless it is *directly* opposite the Flag Point, then no matter how close the incident is, or no matter how far away it is from the Flag Point, if it is before the Flag point, then they go Green, after the Flag Point, then they go Yellow.
The Flags are put out by the Marshals themselves, we aren’t told what flags to put out 99% of the time, we just put them out. If they (Race Control) want a different flag to be displayed then we do so, but that is hardly ever done. (They tend to only ask for a Flag from the preceding point as a sort of “Back-Up” to the next point.)29th November 2012, 10:56 at 10:56 am #216117
This is coming to the boil nicely. Here’s Ferrari confirming they asked the FIA to clarify Vettel’s move on Vergne:
La Ferrari ha chiesto, tramite una lettera, un chiarimento alla FIA in merito al sorpasso di VET su VER nel corso del giro 4 del GP Brasile.
— Scuderia Ferrari (@ScuderiaFerrari) November 29, 201229th November 2012, 10:59 at 10:59 am #216118Mike DeeParticipant
The Maldonado crash video is interesting. Continue watching after the crash. In the last 30 seconds of the video, we can see cars going past with Vettel lining up behind Vergne, i.e. moments before the alleged yellow-flag pass. After Karthikeyan passes through, the camera pans to the right, and we can see the marshal’s post. I think I can see a green flag being waved there, but it is hard to make out as the advertising board on the marshal’s post is green, too. However, it seems almost certain that no yellow flag is being waved. Check the video:29th November 2012, 11:07 at 11:07 am #21611929th November 2012, 11:17 at 11:17 am #216121
To follow up, I’ve found this track map which shows a Flag Point I was previously unaware of and makes things a whole lot clearer.
The lights were on at the Flag Point on the Drivers right, as the should have been with the Maldonado’s car and the rescue vehicles coming to clear the wreckage etc. This Flag Point was under Yellow Flag Conditions, these conditions continued up until the next Flag Point, the one on the Drivers left next to the Pit Lane Exit, which was Green, signalling racing to resume. The lights down towards the end of the straight was the next set of available lights that were able to show Green.29th November 2012, 11:24 at 11:24 am #216122
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