Supporting Bahrainis = Supporting the GP – The Latest On Bahrain
- 3rd June 2011, 14:49 at 2:49 pm #170650Magnificent GeoffreyParticipant
As one of my favourite members here, I’m genuinely happy for you that the race is back on as I know it means a lot to you. I have not participated in this discussion throughout the year as I don’t really feel I am in a position to make statements about a sensitive issue that I, being thousands of miles away, have little authority on.
I fully believe that you completely believe everything you say. What I would like to ask your opinion of, as LAK the individual and not as a representative of the Bahrani people at large, is this; will the Bahrain we see in October truly be a genuinely ‘united’ Bahrain, or a Bahrain that is simply ‘behaving’ itself for the benefit of saving its reputation with the eyes of the world upon her?3rd June 2011, 15:05 at 3:05 pm #170651jihelleParticipant
LAK: I have one question for you: If everything in Bahrain is as rosy as you describe could you please just let me know why the authorities in Bahrain have withdrawn accreditations to journalists from independent media so they can’t report on what’s happening in the country ? I am sure you should know as your prose is eerily similar to the one distributed by the palace and the government in Bahrain that my line of business allows me to read everyday. Ans whatever your answer is, please make it short.3rd June 2011, 15:09 at 3:09 pm #170652
Mag- I think you know the answer to your own question. You’re an intelligent guy, you know full well that the sectarian rift that has split Bahrain will take decades, not months or years, to heal.
“I fully believe that you completely believe everything you say”
I don’t. And even if he/ she does, it doesn’t excuse it. The British Government, for example, can drone on about how the invasion of Iraq was just. It doesn’t mean I have believe it. I can decide for myself what is right and what is wrong, and surely LAK should be capable of that too. I appreciate that LAK is polite and friendly, but there are things I value more in a human being than that.3rd June 2011, 16:05 at 4:05 pm #170654GeorgeParticipant
Thinking about it, the GP going to Bahrain might be a good thing in the long run, it means they have to open up somewhat to outsiders so we should be able to see for ourselves what is going on. Plus it will get a lot of media attention, which as usual fizzled away about a week after this all kicked off.
I’m not going to bother taking sides because as far as I can see they’re both as bad as each other. On the one hand you have a (semi-)violent uprising fueled by religious differences and regional power plays, on the other you have a government being heavy-handed in their crackdown of said uprising.
Anything that can shed some light on the whole situation and perhaps pursuade the government to release some political prisoners can only be a good thing, right?3rd June 2011, 23:56 at 11:56 pm #170655AnonymousInactive
LAK’s reassuring words, have I am afraid, just been blown away by the newsreels tonight showing the security forces coming down hard on the citzens yet again.
I am sure that come the weekend of the race, things will be all quiet, simply because the protests will be kept quiet at all costs. I will remember for a long time the peaceful camp on the roundabout being forcibly destroyed and the live firing that took place.
Sadly I am afraid the Bernie has let the money talk (again) IF the situation really does settle down, then MAYBE there should be a GP in 2012, but certainly not this year.4th June 2011, 0:39 at 12:39 am #170656ZadakMember
@ Ned, are you suggesting the tension will ever stop?
The middle east has been violent over (mostly) religious based disagreements for at least six thousand years.
If a motor race is going to make a negative difference then by all means cancel it. F1: a world media event will bring out either the best or the worst in the Bahrain nobility. Having the worlds eye fixed on Bahrain can only be a good thing as it will inevitably bring about some change.
And lets get some perspective here, Bahrain is a tiny country with big protests that they are surpressing violently.
China is a MASSIVE country with numerous human rights breaches, and their practices today are still questionable. Not many problems about still racing there.
Brazil is another massive country and they race in the middle of a hugely populated city. A disproportionate ammount of the population would rob you at gun point if they had the chance. Jenson Button was almost carjacked wasn’t he? We race there with little complaint.4th June 2011, 1:00 at 1:00 am #170657Polishboy808Participant
And the ignorance continues. Ned, I think that you want to believe that this world is full of Butterflies, and ponies, and rainbows, and peaceful protests…. However, thats not the case. As the article that LAK posts clearly shows, these protests are not peaceful. It’s tough to think that such things happen, and you may be in some extreme case of denial (or you’ve been blinded by ignorance), but the world is harsh. I read many of your comments on the topic, and I find them to be extremely repetitive. You always criticize others comments, and then repeat that its morally wrong. But is what is stated in the article morally right? Is it right that school children (Children!) are divided against each other, and taught that one has supremacy over another? Is it right that the police are being killed by these “peaceful” protesters in such cruel ways? I don’t think so.4th June 2011, 1:27 at 1:27 am #170658
Feel free to think that, Polish boy. You’d be wrong though4th June 2011, 3:14 at 3:14 am #170659Prisoner MonkeysParticipant
Ned, what do you have to say about the people who are calling for the race to be abandoned entirely because of human rights violations, when in reality they’re just using that as an excuse to justify dropping a Grand Prix that they don’t like? Believe me, there are quite a few people who think this. How is that anything other than exploiting the people of Bahrain for their own agendas?4th June 2011, 7:55 at 7:55 am #170660MaciekParticipant
Polishboy – it’s a little cringe-worthy of you to be calling ignorance on anyone when you seem to wholeheartedly accept LAK’s presentation of events, when every single reasonable reliable, reasonably impartial source of information on the planet says otherwise.4th June 2011, 10:47 at 10:47 am #170661
“Ned, what do you have to say about the people who are calling for the race to be abandoned entirely because of human rights violations, when in reality they’re just using that as an excuse to justify dropping a Grand Prix that they don’t like?”
First of all, as far as I can tell, the proportion of people opposed to the race because they don’t like the track is pretty tiny, unless you think we’re all lying. You say “believe me”, but why should we do that? I don’t see how all of a sudden you’re able to delve into the minds of all these people and decide that they’re not being truthful. Maybe you should stop being so cynical, and accept that people are genuinely disgusted by the whole situation.
I don’t care what the track is like, that’s trivial. If Belgium was to be taken over by brutal Flemish separatists who planned to use the GP at Spa to try and fool people into thinking that everything’s ok, I’d be against that race taking place too. Besides, as I’ve mentioned before, aside from the borefest of 2010 I’ve thought Bahrain was one of the better Tilkedromes.4th June 2011, 11:15 at 11:15 am #170662ZadakMember
“I don’t see how all of a sudden you’re able to delve into the minds of all these people”
can anyone here do that?4th June 2011, 11:46 at 11:46 am #170663
No… what’s your point?4th June 2011, 11:54 at 11:54 am #170664ScribeParticipant
First of all, painting resistance to returning to Bahrain as objection to the track itself is a purile stupid argument not worthy of the people on this site. Nothing else to say on that.
Second, we know, an we all know that horrendous abuses of human rights have taken, an continue to take place, to deny this is remove your own credibility on the subject so broad is the evidence available to the public.
I am amazed that the people on this site are taking the word of a reigime with a massive vested intrest in pretending that things in their country are peacfull or at all normal. A peacful protest was started objecting to the nature of government in the country, the government brutally attempted to crush the protest, to suggest that the onus was on the protestors to stay peacefull is another infuriatingly one eyed bit of logic that doesn’t follow as a reasonable argument.
The Bahrain government is a monarchy, it is a minority ethnic government. It has been absolutley brutal in response to initially peacefull to protest asking for a democratic say in the running of their own country. It has detained without trial, it has tortured, it has ban’d any kind of independent journalism within the kingdom.
Racing in Bahrain, after the race was postponed for security reasons is a deeply political statement, it legitimises a reigime we should have nothing to do with, it is as bad as racing in apartheid South Africa, it is as bad as the rebel tours. Even if we don’t want it to be, an even is Eccelstone doesn’t care, racing in most of these countries that have bought a grand prix for national prestige is political however much people try to claim it isn’t.
I hate to be patronising but when have two wrongs ever made a right? It’s wrong to race China, it’s wrong to race in Abu Dhabi and it’s morally outrageous to be returning to Bahrain. It’s a shame we can’t rely on some of the people on this site to do the right thing and boycott the race. I would very much like to know Keiths veiw on this situation and I hope he boycotts it to.4th June 2011, 12:07 at 12:07 pm #170665
As usual, I agree with Scribe. I’m genuinely amazed that months after the crackdown first began we’re still debating this. I’m going to try and stay away from this page now because there’s not much more to be said
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