“I thought it’d be closer this year but the opposite happened” – Steiner

72 comments on ““I thought it’d be closer this year but the opposite happened” – Steiner”

1. 

   KentHarwood
   19th March 2024, 0:22

   ‘Someone has to show what kind of business F1 really is’, as per AP? It’s right there. It’s a BUSINESS. Bottom-line is profit. Wants to save the planet? Good marketing. If it was popular to destroy the planet, F1 would hoist that banner too. About equality? No… realizing that half the world (more or less) is women, and that’s a BIG opportunity to grow viewership. Care about human rights in other countries? Well… it’s not really effecting ratings, so we’ll just PR overtop of it. Allowing gambling sponsors? Big money.

   This isn’t a matter of showing what F1 stands for. It’s a matter of F1 figuring out which causes to pretend to care about to maximize popularity/profit. So, really, it’s a perfectly normal type of business. But it’s fake moral superiority is really getting tiring. Please just stick to racing, guys. It’s the only thing you’re qualified for.
   1. 

      Jay
      19th March 2024, 0:57

      COTD.

      To think mega corps care about the Earth, or Earthlings is naive at best. They want more money and to do that they pander, using specific words, to the gullible or hopeful. It’s sad to see intelligent people fall for it over and over.

      Actions speak louder than words. All I hear are empty words from people who only want more money!
   2. 

      Tristan
      19th March 2024, 2:54

      The community on this website has shown it’s colours, apparantly all women are liars and men are being discriminated against and its just business. That AP article is spot on.

      Sexual harassment in the workplace is nothing to be ignored or swept under the rug. I hope the media continues to apply the pressure until Horner’s guilt or innocence is truly judged where it should be, and that’s not by paid off legal counsel.
      1. 

         Tristan
         19th March 2024, 3:17

         Paid for* before someone jumps down my throat
         1. 

            Jay
            19th March 2024, 4:44

            I think you misinterpreted what KentHarwood had to say. And you strawman’d him by saying ‘all women are liars and men are being discriminated against and its just business’, when absolutely zero people believe that, except in extremists eyes. Projection really.

            Also, isn’t it innocent until proven guilty? Accusations, even strong ones, need to be vetted and verified before the axe comes down. Being skeptical of accusations, doesn’t mean you side or even like the accused. I don’t like Horner but haven’t seen any proof of anything yet. Just a lot of speculation.
            1. 

               Tristan
               19th March 2024, 7:19

               when absolutely zero people believe that

               Nah just have a look at the other thread, comments here have been a shocker, this “it’s just business” line is adding to the tripe.

               Besides even if it is just business, ignoring sexual harassment claims is not good business. As the article points out, where is the proof supposed to come from if there’s no willingness from the FIA or F1 to launch said investigation. Just supposed to take Red Bull’s word for it and then say, “BuT tHeReS nO pRoOf!”
            2. 

               SteveP
               19th March 2024, 8:23

               I think you misinterpreted what KentHarwood had to say. And you strawman’d him by saying ‘all women are liars and men are being discriminated against and its just business’, when absolutely zero people believe that, except in extremists eyes. Projection really.

               I think KentHarwood phrased it all as a rather acidic p-take of the attitudes of the business but, as Tristan points out, there are plenty of people who turn up in the forums and spout on their objectionable views of race, gender, creed (and here is quite tame)
               One such, in these threads, on this site, likes to misquote articles and research to ‘support’ his views. People should fact-check all statements (that’s good advice in all life BTW)

               On Kent’s theme, have you ever wondered how Hamilton and Vettel managed to get F1 doing all those equality/diversity things?
               Pressed their good PR and bad PR buttons at the right times.
               Is it cynical or just expedient to manipulate businesses to do what they morally should?
            3. 

               MichaelN
               19th March 2024, 8:58

               “I don’t like Horner but haven’t seen any proof of anything yet. Just a lot of speculation.”

               At this point in time that is a choice. Whether or not someone finds the leaked documents objectionable or not is separate from that, but it’s out there to see.
            4. 

               ludewig
               19th March 2024, 11:34

               @SteveP

               If I’m supposed to be the person who beliefs that all women are liars, I’d like to see an actual quote of mine saying that.

               Because I’m the actually honest person here, not one who slanders others.
            5. 

               SteveP
               19th March 2024, 19:26

               My goodness L I don’t believe I mentioned your name at all, did you something that fits you?
            6. 

               SteveP
               19th March 2024, 19:26

               * see something
            7. 

               ludewig
               19th March 2024, 21:16

               @SteveP

               It’s pretty obvious that you were referring to me. You also could have simply given us a name of the person you are referring to, but of course you won’t, because it would prove me right one way or the other.

               So you are clearly being quite dishonest. Do you really think that this kind of dishonest behavior reflects well on you?
            8. 

               SteveP
               20th March 2024, 7:33

               It’s pretty obvious that you were referring to me.

               L are you actually claiming to match the description?
               You know, claiming to be someone who misquotes to ‘support’ their views?
            9. 

               ludewig
               20th March 2024, 8:18

               @SteveP

               You actually claimed very recently in another comment that I am misquoting things, so you are again being utterly dishonest by claiming that it is something that I merely inserted myself into.

               Your dishonesty is also made obvious by your repeated unwillingness to give us the name of the person you are referring to.

               Is this really who you want to be? Do you have no shame?
         2. 

            MurasamaRA300 (@murasamara300)
            19th March 2024, 7:18

            Yes, quite a bit of strawman argumentation there.
            But F1 is a business nowadays.
            A very large and powerful business at that.

            It’s certainly not the sport that I remember.
      2. 

         MacLeod (@macleod)
         19th March 2024, 8:18

         Sexual harasment is a crime which the law would take this case. What we know (very little) looks like a women who doesn’t like overbearing Horner. What was released looks like a girlfriend who went after a married man (which i don’t accept as that could be false)

         What we know a woman had a complain against Horner which was handled by an KC in Great Brittain and the complain is dismissed but that women changed attorny and went appealing the decision.

         So now we wait untill that is finished and we all be silent and don’t slander before that.
      3. 

         notagrumpyfan
         19th March 2024, 8:36

         until Horner’s guilt or innocence is truly judged where it should be, and that’s not by paid (for) legal counsel.

         Who should pay for this investigation? FOM, FIA, UK tax payers, UN?
         And should that be for all complaints for all entities linked to F1? Thus if an Alpine employee crumbles his croissant on his colleague’s keyboard this should be investigated by another entity as well?
         And a King’s Counsel is not independent enough? Should it be a Queen’s Counsel, a judge, the King, or maybe even the Pope.

         There will always be complaints about complaint investigations not being independent and/or transparent enough.
         Unfortunately, those complaints are mostly by the ‘losing’ party, people who have a grudge against the ‘winning’ party, or people who prefer sensational press over content.

         Sometimes the privacy of parties involved is more important than the wish of others to know all the details.
         1. 

            Tristan
            19th March 2024, 10:04

            Who should pay for this investigation? FOM, FIA, UK tax payers, UN?

            Yes, yes, or yes until costs are awarded as they are in any case, and no.
            1. 

               notagrumpyfan
               19th March 2024, 10:35

               For all cases? Including the croissant crumble spill at Alpine?
               Who determines what should go to FOM, FIA, UK/Australian tax payers? Tristan?

               It would work like that!
            2. 

               MurasamaRA300 (@murasamara300)
               19th March 2024, 14:59

               As a UK taxpayer I absolutely refuse to pay a single penny for shenanigans like these unless the case is to be tested in a proper public court.

               If the case is to go to court, then I would imagine the accuser needs to go to the police and make a formal complaint there.

               Until that happens, it is a firm no from this UK taxpayer.
            3. 

               Tristan
               19th March 2024, 22:32

               a proper public court

               That was the implication of that part of the comment, yes. Hopefully it will get there eventually.
            4. 

               MurasamaRA300 (@murasamara300)
               20th March 2024, 6:54

               Then she needs to go to the police.

               To prove sexual harassment (I presume that is the alleged crime), I understand there must be some message where she explicitly tells Horner to stop. Does such a “stop” message exist? Does she explicitly tell him that she is uncomfortable and that she want the messages to stop?

               That will be a key point if it goes to court.

               But she has to go to the police. Now.
               Until she does that – not one penny will come from this taxpayer.
            5. 

               MurasamaRA300 (@murasamara300)
               20th March 2024, 8:23

               Also, as I understood, the first allegations of harassment were reported after a ski event in Kitzbuhel. That’s in Austria, not the UK.

               Also, Red Bull is an Austrian company.

               She should put forward her complaint to the Austrian police. This would then be a case for the Austrian taxpayer, not the UK taxpayer.
      4. 

         ludewig
         19th March 2024, 11:26

         @Tristan

         The community on this website has shown it’s colours, apparantly all women are liars and men are being discriminated against and its just business.

         I’ve seen no one argue this. You are just a liar, plain and simple.
         1. 

            Tristan
            19th March 2024, 22:34

            The first is admittedly an exaggeration, but you know you’ve said exactly the second, this comment the third.
            1. 

               ludewig
               20th March 2024, 8:27

               At least you are more honest than SteveP in that you admit you lied, although you still downplay your falsehood by calling it merely an exaggeration.

               And I’m amused that you think that the belief that men get discriminated against (as well) is some sort of horrible statement to make. Do you seriously want to argue that men never get discriminated against? Ever? Not even when millions of men were sent to die or get horribly maimed in various wars, including the horrors of WW I? Admitting that is the first step towards a nuanced opinion, rather than stereotyping some groups as eternal oppressors and others as eternal victims.
            2. 

               SteveP
               20th March 2024, 13:41

               L you need to note that Tristan says “exaggerated” not lied. You could end up with charges against you if you repeat that sort of behaviour wherever you go.

               As to my honesty – I find truth so much easier than even trying to come up with a convincing untruth, so I stick with truth.
               Some people find truth to have sharp edges that wound them, then they strike out in all directions.
               Beside which, remembering what happened is so much easier than remembering a particular fiction. Truth wins any day on the minimum effort stakes.

               Interesting that you’ve got as far as WW1, possibly as a ‘men must fight’ narrative; whereas that conflict was more about old established hierarchies and elites seeking to retain or regain power. Pretty much sod all to do with race or gender.

               Now, the activities in next Worldwide shindig did have a rather odious race and gender sub-text.
            3. 

               ludewig
               21st March 2024, 14:01

               @SteveP

               Yes, he said something that he admits is not true.
   3. 

      MichaelN
      19th March 2024, 8:54

      The point of the article notes just that; and calls on F1 to be more. That a business only cares about money is a very late-20th century, American view. It’s not meant as a compliment when people point out that a business has no other goals or values.

      Anyway, the article is wrong to state that Horner was “cleared of wrongdoing”; the only thing Red Bull has officially stated was that “the grievance has been dismissed”.
      1. 

         SteveP
         19th March 2024, 19:54

         Anyway, the article is wrong to state that Horner was “cleared of wrongdoing”; the only thing Red Bull has officially stated was that “the grievance has been dismissed”.

         Which I’ve been saying ever since the statement was released.
         The vagueness of the statement was sufficient to mislead a fair number of journalists, though.
         Fortunately, the better ones quoted the text of the Red Bull press release, so people could see the misdirection, if they looked.
         1. 

            MacLeod (@macleod)
            20th March 2024, 8:14

            Dear SteveP – If a KC (kings council) says the grievance has been dismissed means that there was no (or enough) proof of wrong doing by Horner. This would also happen in court (as a KC counts as one)

            So untill the appeal is solved we (everyone) should stay silent ……
            1. 

               SteveP
               20th March 2024, 13:27

               If a KC (kings council) says the grievance has been dismissed means that there was no (or enough) proof of wrong doing by Horner.

               But that was not the statement put out.
               Red Bull did not say the KC had said it had been dismissed, nor did they say the KC had dismissed the grievance.
               Red Bull did say the grievance had been dismissed:

               A statement issued by the Red Bull company in Austria said: “The independent investigation into the allegations made against Mr Horner is complete, and Red Bull can confirm that the grievance has been dismissed. The complainant has a right of appeal.”

               Christian Horner has always denied everything. Unfortunately, that ‘everything’ includes the cost cap breach, and look which way that turned out.

               re: KC – yep, I know. I have a friend with the title.
   4. 

      ludewig
      19th March 2024, 11:31

      @KentHarwood

      No… realizing that half the world (more or less) is women, and that’s a BIG opportunity to grow viewership.

      Perhaps, but this depends in large part on how realistic it is to achieve this. Will you be able to do this with the same product, or do you need to adapt it to women? Will that even work? And if it does, will you drive off men who are not happy with the changes?

      For example, less engineering and more human drama seems to attract more women, but fewer men.

      In a way, it’s like arguing that knitting has a huge potential among men, who are a bit less than half the population. Yet so far they’ve never been able to actually attract those men.
      1. 

         Coventry Climax
         19th March 2024, 13:05

         For example, less engineering and more human drama seems to attract more women, but fewer men.

         I see the word ‘seem’ in there, but nonetheless:
         Any independent research, data and articles to back that?
         Any sociological research, data and articles to give background information on the ‘how come’ etc?
         Context as to whether there’s a status quo there, or a transition, whether that’s desirable and to whom?
         Women’s own say in the matter?
         etc etc.

         I must confess, I’m a male and I’m getting absolutely sick of the drama and show over sports in F1.
         One example doesn’t prove the thesis though.
         This site for example, would make a wonderful research base, as it seems to thrive very well on drama, with an active – maybe even heated – majority of male avatars, which obviously, suggests but isn’t actual proof, that they’re really male responders. But I have no actual visitor and subscription figures. See? Same word again: ‘seems’.
         1. 

            ludewig
            19th March 2024, 15:27

            @Coventry Climax

            From a scientific perspective we see a very significant difference in personality between men and women (one of the largest differences you find in sociology), where women are substantially more people-oriented and men more thing/system-oriented. Note that this is ‘merely’ a relative difference, not that men and women are exclusively into either.

            I would argue that this maps quite well on things such as whether you care who is dating who or has a feud with whom; versus how interested you are in car mechanics and the like.

            I see this all the time in real life, as well. Which gender reads sci-fi and which gender reads romance novels? Which gender tells you excitingly about some gadget way more often than the other gender? Which gender tends to invent things, even things intended purely for women (solving a systemic problem rather than a personal problem)? Which gender becomes an engineer way more often? Which gender gravitates to becoming surgeons where the patient is typically unconscious and the operation is very much a technical puzzle, and which gender tends to gravitate to medical jobs where they talk a lot with patients, especially with children (which are the least systemized kind of humans)?

            Women’s own say in the matter?

            Women have all the say in this. They ‘just’ have to act differently.

            No one forced women to only become more interested in F1 when Drive To Survive came out. No one was stopping them from watching an F1 race or reading this site. Without similar behavior/choices, you cannot expect similar outcomes.
            1. 

               Coventry Climax
               19th March 2024, 17:15

               From probablythe same ‘scientific perspective’, I say all of what you say comes out of your thumb.
               Some of it may be true, some of it false, but you’ve come up with zilch to back up what you’re saying.

               You can say all you like, as that’s your opinion, but don’t try to tell us it’s scientific.
            2. 

               ludewig
               19th March 2024, 21:25

               @Coventy Climax

               I have given multiple sources to back up my claims, so what you are saying is simply false.

               You can look up “Gender differences in personality and interests: When, where, and why?” by Richard Lippa for a summary of data from two meta-analyses and three cross-cultural studies on gender differences in personality and interests, which supports my claims.

               So are you going to apologize to me for saying that my claims are not based on science, or are you going to join your friends in making false claim after false claim, since you guys don’t like the science on the matter, so you have to pretend it doesn’t exist?
         2. 

            SteveP
            19th March 2024, 20:03

            From probablythe same ‘scientific perspective’, I say all of what you say comes out of your thumb.

            CC, I think your direction finding may be a little off. Adjust your sights to a point a bit lower. :)
            1. 

               ludewig
               19th March 2024, 21:27

               @SteveP

               Classy and very much at your level. But just like I said after your other ridiculous comment, do you really think that your behavior reflects well on you and suggests that you know your scientific facts?

               (hint, scientific facts are not in anyones pants.)
            2. 

               SteveP
               20th March 2024, 8:21

               Winding back a little, you said:

               I see this all the time in real life, as well. Which gender reads sci-fi and which gender reads romance novels?

               and you later raise the name Richard Lippa.
               Lippa’s research, as with most in the field of sociology and psychology, notes the dual influences posited by all researchers and usually referenced under the “Nature vs. Nurture” headline.
               All reliable studies have shown a greater influence from the Nurture aspect and the ever present social pressure to conform to the group norm.

               So to answer the question quoted above: The SF (Science or Speculative Fiction) readers tend to be from the male social group, pressured by the rest of the group not to read the “girlie stuff” and the romance readers tend to be from the female social group who pressure their members not to touch the ‘macho’ SF (a label that would seriously annoy the female authors in the genre)

               BTW. The proper label is always SF and “sci-fi” is a label best buried with whichever media hack generated it.

               Oh, and I beg to differ on science fact location, as there’s an awfully large amount of genetic science located at the human groin area.
            3. 

               ludewig
               20th March 2024, 13:40

               @SteveP

               You again don’t have your facts straight. Lippa didn’t actually do the research, he merely summarizes the research that others did. And of course I never argued that nurture doesn’t exist, but when behavior or traits are consistent across cultures, it is hard to argue that it is all nurture. And research has shown that people actually show more gendered behavior & traits in various ways in more emancipated countries where people should have more freedom to choose. So nurture may actually be suppressing some natural tendencies, causing people to act less stereotypical.

               : The SF (Science or Speculative Fiction) readers tend to be from the male social group, pressured by the rest of the group not to read the “girlie stuff” and the romance readers tend to be from the female social group who pressure their members not to touch the ‘macho’ SF (a label that would seriously annoy the female authors in the genre)

               Yes, of course, it is the woke position that everything that people do is caused by being pressured into behavior. The first problem with that argument is that you don’t have any actual proof for it. It is just dogma that is taken as true because it fits the woke narrative.

               However, far more damning is that this alleged pressure somehow is also present in situations where it is very unlikely for significant group pressure to exist. Like when you are reading books alone, which is what people commonly do. Where is this group pressuring men to read sci-fi or pressuring women to read romance novels when you can order books on Amazon and read them in the privacy of your own home, so other people don’t even know what you read unless you tell them?
            4. 

               SteveP
               20th March 2024, 20:50

               However, far more damning is that this alleged pressure somehow is also present in situations where it is very unlikely for significant group pressure to exist. Like when you are reading books alone, which is what people commonly do. Where is this group pressuring men to read sci-fi or pressuring women to read romance novels when you can order books on Amazon and read them in the privacy of your own home, so other people don’t even know what you read unless you tell them?

               When in the privacy of your home, do you read SF, romance novels or transgender fiction? What would you admit to?
               Don’t answer, no one expects the answer to be accurate, no matter who is answering.
               You actually noticed the tendency to mendacity in the subjects yourself.

               Speaking as someone from a family that read everything available, including sauce bottle labels; stating that something wouldn’t be read is frankly ridiculous. What is declared in public (and surveys) and what is read in public may be, and probably is, different.
               The data set is incomplete, you can only study the portion where you have solid observed data, and that suffers from the peer pressure aspect. Not the only influence, but outcasts from the herd don’t survive long, so the pressure is to conform with the herd.

               BTW. The sauce label reference is down to having to cease reading at meal times, so anything with text on it was of interest. We’re talking beyond habitual reader level and off into addictive behaviour.
               My behavioural legacy is such that my book collection extends to all available shelf space in every room except the bathroom/toilets, and insulation levels on the exterior walls are rather good.

               Yes, of course, it is the woke position that everything that people do is caused by being pressured into behavior.

               1. Incorrect
               2. Woke is good.
            5. 

               ludewig
               21st March 2024, 14:15

               @Steve

               I never said that only men read sci-fi and only women read romance. Instead of strawmanning me, you could also just address my actual claims.

               And it is quite telling that you need to reject the overwhelming evidence that I’m right. There is absolutely no one else who doubts that women read way more romance novels, but you, when it conflicts with your views.

               And since you are curious, I did occasionally enjoy the very best of the romance genre, like Jane Eyre and Pride and Prejudice. But it is not a genre I seek out.
            6. 

               SteveP
               21st March 2024, 15:13

               I never said that only men read sci-fi and only women read romance.

               L, you seem to be suffering a Trump family ailment. Loss of recall.

               ludewig
               19th March 2024, 15:27
               …
               I see this all the time in real life, as well. Which gender reads sci-fi and which gender reads romance novels?
            7. 

               ludewig
               22nd March 2024, 10:11

               @Steve

               I qualify my statements 90% of the time, much more than anyone else. It should be obvious that I didn’t literally mean that no women read sci-fi and no men read romance, which I’ve also explicitly said earlier.

               But congrats on finding one sentence where I was a little bit sloppy with my wording, I guess. A huge win. You’ve sure proven me wrong.
      2. 

         MurasamaRA300 (@murasamara300)
         19th March 2024, 13:28

         Here’s a scientific study involving three people and knitting:

         My sister-in-law does a lot of knitting, and she’s very good at it. Makes wonderful things. But however much I try, I can’t really make myself interested in taking up knitting. Wouldn’t matter if there were enormous schemes in place to get men into knitting.
         It’s just not my thing, you know.

         And my sister-in-law is just not interested in motor racing. She’s just not.

         My wife knows a fair bit about racing (since I go on about it…), but I can almost guarantee that she would never in a million years consider working in a motorsport environment.

         Whereas I actually worked for Haas for a couple of years – I didn’t work with anything concerning racing, but I worked for their CNC machinery division and even though I had left them again at the time they entered F1, I thought it was absolutely awesome when they joined.

         Wife smiles and nods her head.
2. 

   Jim from US (@jimfromus)
   19th March 2024, 1:58

   Not sure what Steiner is seeing but there definitely aren’t 2 championships with a top 5 and bottom 5. Looks to me like there is a top 1, next is Ferrari, Alonso, and McLaren; Mercedes and Stroll; Haas and Williams; then the rest. And that is being generous, we’ll see after a few more races but the season could just be done with RB, Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes, AM (only because of Stroll), Williams, Haas, and whatever is left.
   1. 

      MacLeod (@macleod)
      19th March 2024, 8:22

      “But I think Ferrari this year, if they have got good progress in development, they could challenge Red Bull hopefully, in the second half of the season.”

      The reason that Red bull chnaced their concept was that the RB19 was the end of the development and they couldn’t improve that design marginal (very little) That would mean the danger that a team (Ferrari) would overtake them.
      So this RB20 design they could improve a lot so they went for that. So no i don’t think Red Bull is going to be overtaking this year.
      1. 

         Esploratore (@esploratore1)
         19th March 2024, 13:37

         And then again if we have to rely on ferrari of all teams to outdevelop the opponent the season is over, they’ve been consistently outdeveloped by mercedes or red bull, whoever was atop in a given season.
   2. 

      Anuj
      19th March 2024, 15:50

      Top 1, next is Perez, Ferrari, Alonso, McLaren.
3. 

   Tristan
   19th March 2024, 2:57

   Great question in the cotd re: why he thought they’d be competitive. Did they get simulator correlation wrong?

   It could just be the unique characteristics of the night races. I’m keen to see whether the field mixes up at all in the coming races.
4. 

   Jere (@jerejj)
   19th March 2024, 5:36

   Well, I didn’t really expect anything different competitive order-wise.

   I didn’t quite expect Gasly to become a football team’s part-owner, though, & even less so about a third-level team, so I guess all main league teams are full, or at least Paris-Saint Germain FC.

   Drugovich is perhaps slowly accepting his F1 chance may never come true.

   I wholly agree with the COTD & the ending De Vries comparison part is especially spot-on, given the F1 racing experience difference.
   1. 

      notagrumpyfan
      19th March 2024, 8:41

      You’re ‘expecting’ more than a pregnant woman ;)
      1. 

         Jere (@jerejj)
         19th March 2024, 19:51

         Good joke
      2. 

         Simon
         19th March 2024, 22:20

         @notagrumpyfan

         +1. Sue Radford’s quaking in her boots…
5. 

   Sham (@sham)
   19th March 2024, 8:13

   It was always clear that with the budget cap and lack of testing that Red bull will be able to pull away unless they pull a Mercedes and design a dud.
   No one else can catch up, and they themselves can switch to the new car sooner because of that.

   Personally, I believe that the Red Bull budget cap breach is the root of the sheer amount of a lead they enjoy. No doubt that Newey designed an exceptionally good car, and all credit – but they over spent right at the beginning of the new regs and that will benefit them until the next change.

   The only suitable punishment for a budget cap breach over a season is exclusion from that years championship – and I hope that, if a team breaks it again, that that is what happens.
   1. 

      MacLeod (@macleod)
      19th March 2024, 8:33

      No that amount wasn’t enough to design a good car the problem for the other teams is that Adrian Newey was a designer in the first groundeffect era and knew what the problem would be and Adrian went for the suspension which was the most important part of groundeffect.
      Mercedes had a good idea but couldn’t get it working because of the suspension which the RB20 is taking it’s inspiration from.
      1. 

         Coventry Climax
         19th March 2024, 14:08

         Oh that again.
         The problem is that the other teams decided to overestimate their own expertise and not make use of updated, current know-how available in the aero industry. Newey had experience alright, but it was dated, to say the least.

         GE is not found in F1 alone, it’s omnipresent in the aero industry, and the know-how about it constantly being researched and updated. First of all, any aircraft has to take off and land with every flight they do. Secondly, there’s extensive research going on on GE aircraft, as that’s a very fuel efficient way of flying. Sure, the design purpose is different, but the principles and calculations, strength, minimal weight, suspension characteristics; it’s all there. The aero industry is at least as diverse as the automotive: from personal sports glider to heavyweight military transport and fighter jet.
         There’s a wealth of aerodynamics engineers out there, in all stages of their career, working in the aerospace industry but very willing to take on a prestigeous, well paid job and adventure at an F1 team.

         If anything, Newey and Red Bull recognised the importance of integrating G.E. aspects to the overall performance, where other teams underestimated that and overestimated their knowledge of aero. Maybe it’s part of Red Bulls heritage, having to come up with a fast car despite an underperforming engine. Anyway, G.E. was announced well in advance, yet none of the other teams apparently recognised the importance and/or took sufficient action. All these teams could -and probably should- have hired new expertise. Maybe some even did, but I did not hear any stories about it at all. Personally, I think Mercedes -and their customers- relied on just a quick engine too much, too long.
         But there’s absolutely more than one Newey in this world.
         1. 

            SteveP
            19th March 2024, 20:14

            Maybe it’s part of Red Bulls heritage, having to come up with a fast car despite an underperforming engine.

            Which shows you can only really see that as a small influence, since Renault (Alpine if you wish) have had years of an underperforming engine and knowledge of that engine in works and customer chassis, yet they still fail.
         2. 

            MacLeod (@macleod)
            20th March 2024, 8:29

            Maybe Adrian knowlegde was dated but he could explain the development department on the most important parts of ground effect and then the very good department took that knowledge by heart and see the RB18 had almost no poirposing and they could finetune it out.
            So Adrian did not had all answers but together with all those good engineers and his experience had the best car…
   2. 

      notagrumpyfan
      19th March 2024, 8:43

      The only suitable punishment for a budget cap breach over a season is exclusion from that years championship

      Maybe, but at least (also) a reduction of the budget cap the following by an amount surpassing the overspend in the previous year (I’d say 200%).
   3. 

      James Coulee
      19th March 2024, 8:48

      The relative amount (and especially the nature) of the breach couldn’t have that effect, I’m afraid.
   4. 

      MurasamaRA300 (@murasamara300)
      19th March 2024, 8:55

      Obviously, the only regulations needed are these:

      1) min & max length, width & height
      2) min & max weight
      3) teams can run 1, 2 or 3 cars
      4) bring number of races down to seven (7) races per year to stop the dilution and make each race count
      5) triple the length of the races so they are six hours instead of two

      Spend as much money as you like, test whenever you want, run whichever engine & fuel & tyre combination you want, make pitstops whenever you want.
      Use prequalifying if there are too many entries to fit on the track.
      No other restrictions.

      :) Make F1 Great Again :)
      1. 

         notagrumpyfan
         19th March 2024, 10:39

         You forgot 6) BoP.
         Because that’s what your ideal racing series beliefs it needs to be attractive.
         1. 

            MurasamaRA300 (@murasamara300)
            19th March 2024, 13:15

            On the contrary, I don’t think balance of performance would be necessary.
            BoP would be an immediate step back onto the road of regulation, leading to intervention and stifling of innovation.
            My five points aim to move away from that. If one team is way ahead, it’s up to the others to catch up.
            Since the other teams are no longer stifled by any pretend “budget limits” locking the results for years and years, the other teams should have a fairer chance of catching up. Nothing would be holding them back.
            1. 

               notagrumpyfan
               19th March 2024, 16:05

               It was a TiC reply, as your other ‘ideal’ points are pretty close to WEC ;)
            2. 

               MurasamaRA300 (@murasamara300)
               19th March 2024, 20:46

               Understood. :)
               And WEC is pretty good at the moment!
6. 

   theRealMax (@millionus)
   19th March 2024, 9:26

   The onboard video of Valteri in that bobsled on wheels is amazing. Crazy to see the lack of protection from that viewpoint in that car going at those speeds.!
7. 

   notagrumpyfan
   19th March 2024, 10:38

   You forgot 6) BoP.
   Because that’s what your ideal racing series beliefs it needs to be attractive.
   1. 

      notagrumpyfan
      19th March 2024, 10:40

      reply to @murasamara300 above.
      1. 

         MurasamaRA300 (@murasamara300)
         19th March 2024, 15:03

         Cheers! I get your point, replied above.
         This is all just a bit of “mind games” from me, I am well aware it will never happen. :)
8. 

   RH
   19th March 2024, 18:25

   In my opinion the best way to improve F1 right now is to buy out Alonso and replace Perez with him as soon as possible.

   As good as Verstappen is, he would lose more to Alonso than Perez and once in a while will also have to fight for something. Right now he gets a good lap in, and is on cruise control.

   I don’t trust the other teams to do anything useful as their incompetence is particularly on full display.

   Norris is scared to be Verstappen’s teammate. I’d also like Oscar to come and challenge Max. I bet he would be quite close over a lap which will lead to him winning many races this year.

   Leclerc signed long term. Alonso is the best option.

   Mercedes did have a much bigger pace advantage but Hamilton deciding not to show up every third race and Rosberg becoming serious and a tad lucky made 2016 at least have some on track drama.

   This year is definitely the dullest even if Verstappen is the best driver by quite some distance.

   At the end of the day fans want entertainment. With this entire Horner Marko Verstappen saga I hope Alonso somehow gets a move to RB to fight Max.

   Max is good but he is having it too easy. I had the same complaints about Michael Sebastian and Lewis for what it’s worth. Lewis sulking in end of 15 and starting poorly in 16 led to a somewhat okay title fight even if whoever led after first corner mostly won. Verstappen’s story, Ricciardo’s consistency all made that year quite memorable. Right now there’s nothing like that. It’s frankly dull, and very much so.

   Off track politics and drama has always been an integral part but at a high level racing mattered much more. I’ve never seen something as dull as this year so far however.

   Rant Over.

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