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Supporting Bahrainis = Supporting the GP – The Latest On Bahrain

Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 74 total)
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  • #170666
    Red Andy
    Participant

    I don’t see how all of a sudden you’re able to delve into the minds of all these people and decide that they’re not being truthful.

    But when you do that with LAK, that’s okay, is it?

    #170667
    George
    Participant

    Not to mention you dont need to delve into their minds, just delve into the comments on the main site.

    #170668
    Red Andy
    Participant

    Second, we know, an we all know that horrendous abuses of human rights have taken, an continue to take place, to deny this is remove your own credibility on the subject so broad is the evidence available to the public.

    Yes, we can probably say this without too much fear of being horribly wrong. The point I made earlier, though, is that the Western media has its own vested interests too, and the portrait they present is not always entirely accurate. Fox News in the US portrayed the British student protests last November as a demonstration “against government debt,” which wasn’t even close to being the case. And from my involvement in the Scottish Parliament elections recently I know that a carefully spun narrative can utterly distort a story beyond its real significance. This happens routinely in our media and it is hypocritical to only call it out when it happens in other countries.

    As ever, the truth probably lies somewhere between the two extremes of what the Bahrain government is saying, and what the international media is telling us. As I said before, I welcome different perspectives on the incidents, and my position is that F1 should only return to Bahrain if it’s safe and practical to do so. Is that the case? I don’t know, because I’m not there.

    #170669
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    Sorry, Ned, but my respect for you is bleeding away rapidly. For all your adherence to your principles, most of what I’ve seen from you in this debate is a series of extended responses as to why you’re not actually going to respond to anything that has been said. You’re not going to talk anyone around with “I’m not going to answer your question because your opinion is not the same as mine”, despite your questioning the ability of some people to be talked around.

    #170670
    Ned Flanders
    Participant

    Andy, me saying LAK is not being truthful is not a subjective opinion, it’s based on the countless credible reports which contradict everything that he/ she is saying.

    #170671
    BasCB
    Participant

    I must say I am reluctant to have a go again. My view on this matter are by now pretty clear. On the other hand, the Forum is about debate, and I think I have so far maintained the debate in a fair and constructive manner.

    I do think Ned is slowly growing tired of constantly dejecting those telling us not to trust NGO’s with a highly regarded reputation, as well as a wide range of media outlets with many knowledgable reporters as well. Look at what Mouse Nightshirt tells us, who of us here is a doctor/nurse and feels different about his/her medical oath?

    Without doubt a big portion of our international Media are more interested in a good story over the truth. But the comparison to the propaganda to invade Iraq with what is now coming from Bahrain officials is very accurate. Many people have by now learnt what sources to trust and what sources to take with a big pinch of salt. And it tends not to be the government reports that are the most reliable, nor the likes of the Daily Mail, Fox News or Bild Zeitung.

    To me, it is a horribly wrong desicion to go back to Bahrain right now, with hundreds still imprisoned and crackdowns continuing.

    I sincerely hope that any dialogue about reforms takes hold and brings all its people together again. But even if it does, this will certainly take a lot longer than 5 months until the GP.

    That means the GP will be untere immense pressure and will be used as such by both sides. In my opinion that is the best scenario for a big safety crisis as well.

    #170672
    beneboy
    Participant

    Bahrain: Martial Law Is Lifted, but the Veneer of Calm Proves Easily Broken

    Friday, June 03, 2011

    “By lifting its 13-week martial law decree on Wednesday, Bahrain’s government meant to signal the end of a violent crackdown against its Shi’ite opposition and show a nervous international business community that normality had been restored in the embattled island nation. Instead, however, the day was marked by tear gas attacks on peaceful protesters in the Shi’ite enclave of Sitra. They continued on Thursday and Friday with government forces firing tear gas and rubber bullets at protesters marching on the site of the torn-down Pearl roundabout, as activists elsewhere were called into police stations to face charges of anti-government activity.

    Most prominent Shi’ite activists are either missing or behind bars, leaving those remaining to protest the government’s attempt to paint a patina of normality over the turmoil that has engulfed the country since February. “Bahrain’s not going to go back to normal; that’s not going to happen anytime soon,” says Joost Hiltermann, deputy director for the Middle East and North Africa at the International Crisis Group. “The lifting of emergency law is done to placate international opinion, which has been very harmful to the business climate in the country.””

    Source: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2075671,00.html?xid=tweetbut

    #170673
    Zadak
    Member

    I’ve just been convinced that stuff is still happening

    are they an any more danger there than they are in crime ridden Brazil?

    #170674
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Danger for the paddock is not the issue we’re discussing here, Zadak.

    #170675
    Guilherme
    Member

    are they an any more danger there than they are in crime ridden Brazil?

    I don’t know if I find that funny or disgusting. You do honestly believe that the crime situation here in Brazil is anything compared to what is happening in Bahrain?

    I’m sorry, that’s totally off-topic, but I felt like I had to reply…

    #170676
    George
    Participant

    It’s a perfectly reasonable question, as far as I know Sao Paulo is the only place where drivers need armed police to escort them to and from their hotel?

    #170677
    Movement
    Member

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ad623440-856e-11e0-ae32-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1NK1LtQJm

    I think most people will agree that the FT is normally a pretty reliable source. As is the BBC which has continued to report violent clampdowns and abuses, but hey everyone is perfectly happy to ignore the worlds media.

    I think Bahrain should be avoided. There we go. Lak if you dont mind me asking, are you sunni? I am sure some people want the race, I am sure others would rather not have the race. Either way, its bringing F1 into the internal politics of a country which should not happen, in a very blatant way, more so than China etc. Its not the most exciting race on the calendar, the season is dangerously long as it is, why not just leave it for a year. Then see how the ground lies.

    #170678
    Scribe
    Participant

    @George, unfortunately the way it’s was phrased means it wasn’t a reasonable question.

    The question here is not whether it is safe to race, that is Eccelstone’s question, an the organisers question. It is their question as it is within their interests for the race to go ahead for well documented reasons, essentially they just want to know they can get away with it.

    F1 shouldn’t be asking if putting on the show comes with acceptable risk, as, while there shouldn’t really be any, the question we should be asking is why is there risk in the first place. An we know the answer to that, but just in case we’ve all missed it and I’m sure some posters simply must have, there’s danger cause those that originally decided F1 would be good for Bahrain, those that funded the circuit and those that are now applying for reinstatement to the calendar are part of a government that has brutally murdered, tortured and restricted the movement of an oppressed majority who dared asked for democratic rights.

    The real question we should be asking as decent human beings is, can it possibly be right, to bring prestige through an event of a sport we treasure, to the rulers of a kingdom we know to be brutal despots? Secondarily, is it right for our sport to be the event that helps said despots hide what they are doing to their people, creating the illusion that things are as normal?

    Maybe you should all be asking yourselves why the government is so against the idea of elections, study the history of the country, why there is strife in the first place before you decide that our race is a separate issue an should go ahead, simply because the government has enough tanks to stop it’s people from accessing the eyes of the world.

    #170679
    Icthyes
    Participant

    We also have to remember that Bahrain is only a small country of 1.2 million people and is roughly half the size of London in area, which puts the scale of what’s been going on into perspective. It’s not like it’s 300 miles away from the GP and to think F1 is going to be safe, especially with new protests planned for the weekend of the race, is quite optimistic.

    #170680
    Movement
    Member

    Will Buxton posted this video on twitter – filmed in Bahrain. I’m not going to comment, think its up to people to make their own minds up what they think of this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BddeDntiAXA&feature=youtu.be

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