Max Mosley has written to the eight FOTA teams saying:
It is of course up to you, but the simplest way to ensure that all entrants run under the same rules would be if everyone entered under the cost-cap rules as published and then all entrants cooperated to agree modifications to those rules which would make the proposition workable for all parties.
In other words, he’s telling them to drop their attempt to get the F1 rules changed and enter the sport unconditionally, so that they can then try to get the rules altered once they’re in.
But why should the teams think Mosley is any more likely to listen to them about the rules in future than he has been in the past? He is asking them to sacrifice their bargaining position and offering nothing in return but a vague promise that he might listen to them next time.
Surely no-one is going to be won over by that?
Here’s some of the other news doing the rounds today, as usual please post your findings below:
Bernie Ecclestone: “They have a huge catchment area of East European and Middle East countries. I went round five sites in a helicopter and picked this. The layout is brilliant, hills adding drama as the cars suddenly appear . They just don’t promote it. Maybe they could move the whole thing to Britain.” I've been to the Istanbul Park circuit and I think I know why hardly any spectators were there. The few buses available to transport spectators from Istanbul to the track – two hours away – showed a worrying tendency to get lost. There are probably coach loads of fans just arriving at the circuit as I write this.
"We both want to win, and I wanted to understand if after the second pitstop we had to be careful and reduce the revs. So we both went into Ross's office and explained the case to him. It was very good from Jenson, very good from me, very good from Ross. It was different than in my Ferrari times, so I felt very good. I felt it was a good day to get back some of the points but unfortunately there is happiness on Jenson's face but not on mine."
"We decided to continue with that strategy because basically we would have conceded the race on lap 15, but even before the race we discussed that strategy would only work if Sebastian got past Jenson on the second stint, which unfortunately we didn't manage to do."
"The new diffuser resembles much that of Brawn with an empty keel structure in the middle and an early exit above it for additional downforce. It also pick up an idea of Toyota by creating a small extension to the diffuser under the rear crash structure – with the safety light, the only area where the diffuser is allowed to extend further behind the rear wheels."
These are links I’ve bookmarked using Delicious. You can see my Delicious profile here.
persempre
8th June 2009, 19:14
Doesn`t matter how many times I read the contents of Max` letter I can`t get rid of the mental picture of that whirly-eyed snake in The Jungle Book.
Trrrussssssssssssst in me.
Yea, like hell :(
Spud
8th June 2009, 19:33
Same here man. I’ve been on the fence about this for a while now but I’m siding with FOTA.
The idea of a breakaway series is actually starting to grow on me now.
But I was just wondering about where Keith stands in all of this.
Keith, if there is a breakaway series, which will you be covering? The “New” F1 or “The Premier Formula” or whatever they end up calling it???
Bartholomew
8th June 2009, 21:37
I´ll follow Keith whatever happens. The Grand Prix Fanatic or whatever its called will have my support.
Both the new series and the existing series will be interesting in their own way. Whichever one has the best historic racetracks will be more popular.
In motorcycle racing, you have both MotoGP and Superbikes, and both have their fans.
I just wish the new LOTUS will eventually join the other main teams.
Cheers ! everything will be OK in the end
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
8th June 2009, 21:47
I haven’t given it any thought. It’s safe to say, though, that I couldn’t cover both to the same extent that I cover F1. So I’d either have to pick one or the other, or do both, but not as well. Or, I suppose, neither. Indy Car Fanatic?
However I sincerely hope it doesn’t come to this – they absolutely have to get this sorted out properly. A split would not be a solution, it would be a defeat.
scunnyman
10th June 2009, 7:32
Yeah like anybody trusts Mosley anymore.
And now i have the image of the whirly eyed snake from jungle book with Max’s face.
Now when i sit down with my new daughter to watch that movie i’ll be seeing Max Mosley.
I just hope that by the time we do that Mosley will be a distant memory in the FIA.
Dougie
8th June 2009, 20:09
It has to be said presempre, WHAT A SNAKE!!
As you know I am in favour of budget cap rules (maybe not as they are written at the moment) and have tried to be positive about the FIA and FOTA… but this does take the biscuit, what a slippery weasel!
This situation though is a mess with both the FIA and FOTA equally reponsible. It will be very interesting to see how FOTA responds.
Here is a rumour to set the cat amongst the pigeons.
I’m on the side of the fans and this whole sorry business needs to come to an end… and soon!
persempre
8th June 2009, 20:34
Yes, I read the article about Dorna, Dougie. I just don`t know how true it is, though. I`m sure FOTA has several contingency plans but I`m extremely wary of believing what appears in most of the media.
I think almost everyone is fed up with this situation but it needs to be sorted out in a way which retains the core raisons d’être of F1.
I think you`ll find that the teams pay much more attention to the fans than Max & Bernie ever have. After all, the teams & drivers rely on their fans money & goodwill. The FIA & FOM don`t have to do that as much (or, in the case of the FIA, at all).
Mark Hitchcock
8th June 2009, 21:30
So one day he’s telling the teams to go and form a break-away because he doesn’t care about them. Next he’s saying they should trust him and go with his stupid rules for the good of F1?
Max, you need to get your head sorted and leave, for the good of all motorsport.
GQsm
8th June 2009, 21:30
Mosley is playing with them, I think this is to try and split FOTA further, with some knowing his game and sticking to their guns and some caving under the pressure and false glimmer of hope this letter is giving them.
How on earth can we get rid of this rat? I don’t hold out much hope while he is still in power.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
8th June 2009, 21:51
And it goes on, and on, and on.
Now the five manufacturer teams that signed an agreement not to enter the championship without the FIA making concessions are being threatened with legal action:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75963
If Mosley’s words before were the ‘carrot’, this is definitely the ‘stick’. According to Autosport:
persempre
8th June 2009, 22:17
You can lead a prancing horse to Australia but you cannot make it race. :)
Influenced
8th June 2009, 22:29
haha that would be funny if that happen… if they had to join and next season they just went slow in protest
Bartholomew
8th June 2009, 22:38
Theyll send a couple of FIATs with plenty of stickers on, and then go race with the other teams.
Mark Hitchcock
8th June 2009, 22:33
haha, very true persempre.
mikey
8th June 2009, 22:16
No refueling, 4WD, expanded KERS, movable front & rear wings… all teams given roughly the same 60mil (USD) for development…wow! This sounds like the most fascinating racing series yet – no wonder FOTA’s big wigs are complaining… they have to work from a level playing field! If there is a break away FOTA series, I will NOT be watching their processional brand of racing next year! Go new F1!
Internet
8th June 2009, 23:12
I agree. I was looking forward to the new regulations but Ferrari had to throw their toys out just cos they weren’t winning.
Rabi
9th June 2009, 11:04
Both of your blind hate for Ferrari is clouding your judgement. If it was really down to Ferrari and Renault throwing their toys out of the pram then why would Red Bull, Toyota and Brawn – three teams that are doing well, side with FOTA?
Think about that before posting stuff about Ferrari being upset this is not Ferrari acting on their own it is FOTA.
Patrickl
9th June 2009, 16:53
I wouldn’t be surprised if Brawn and Red Bull are regretting their decision to stick with FOTA.
Initially the teams were upset that there would be a two tiered championship. Especially since the budget cap tier seemed to be the faster option as well.
With that out of the way only the budget cap itself is still an issue. I really can’t beleive that Red Bull or Brawn GP would be bothered too much if the budget cap was installed. They are essentially small teams and they would benefit most from a level playing field (just like Williams and Force India).
The car manufacturers can only win through bigger budgets. That’s how they always work. Of course they will fight a budget cap to the death since it in effect kills their competitive edge. Under a budget cap potentially any team could develop a winner. There would then be no extra money to throw at it to win back some time.
persempre
9th June 2009, 17:24
Ross Brawn has said that his view of what F1 should be has more chance of coming to be with FOTA`s suggestions than with the FIA`s.
He also acknowledged that he wouldn`t be on the grid at all if it hadn`t been for the help given him by the manufacturers particularly, of course, Mercedes.
Bartholomew
8th June 2009, 22:17
I´ll bet some of those new teams are shadow entities registered by Bernie under his brother-in-law´s name !
LOL
Influenced
8th June 2009, 22:29
LOOOOOOL Hear Hear
Internet
8th June 2009, 23:13
Anyone know what happened to Ron Dennis. It’s like he’s dissapeared from the face of earth. Nothing to the press, doesn’t show up in the races, hasn’t said anything about the FOTA situation. Pretty weird.
persempre
8th June 2009, 23:46
He said he`d be concentrating on the sports car side.
Bartholomew
8th June 2009, 23:23
I like Mosley personally. He has a point of view and mantains it. The budget caps, in general, make sense if implemented gradually.
Mosley is taking all the heat when it is Bernie who is the snake in the grass.
Prisoner Monkeys
9th June 2009, 0:59
It’s an odd line for Mosely to take, saying “Fine, go your own way”, only to say “Join up and work it from within”. However, I don’t think a rival championship will ever work: FOTA cannot compete at the same time as playing referee the way the FIA does.
Mosely’s suggestion that the teams join up and ten negotiate actually sounds pretty reasonable. When you break it right down, neither the FIA nor FOTA want to see the championship fall apart, but they’re just being really stubborn about what they want.
There has been talk that the manufacturers – not the private teams – within FOTA have submitted an en masse entry, where the FIA wil have to accept all of them or none of them; they cannot take Ferrari and leave the rest. But whatever the case, I think the conflict is actually pretty close to a resolution; the deadline is pretty much Friday, and like the row over medals and winner-takes-all, these thngs tend to be resolved at the last minute.
Rich
9th June 2009, 3:08
I wish I had one of those new Time Machines Apple announced today so I could leap ahead to Saturday and get the suspense over with!
Journeyer (@journeyer)
9th June 2009, 3:21
It sounds reasonable. But I think they’d want Max to give them a sign that they can trust him this time. No one wants this to drag on to September.
That said, those rumors of FIA suing the manufacturers of going against no-compete laws may dissuade them. This will probably, like all political conflict in F1, go down to the wire.
persempre
9th June 2009, 11:40
They don`t have to, Prisoner Monkeys.
GP2 made its’ own regulations from the start. It isn’t an FIA Championship. Nor, for instance, is the Porsche Super Cup which also runs at some race weekends. The Stewards have to abide by the regs of whichever series they are policing.
Max is a lawyer. The first thing every lawyer says about contracts is “Read the small print. What you sign for is what you are legally bound to”.
Sign for the rules & you get those rules.
It`s wasn’t talk, all FOTA teams signed conditionally.
However, Max’ latest little trick is to have another go at divide & conquer but he’s finding that FOTA (knowing how Max & Bernie have worked for decades) may have been one step ahead of him on this.
scunnyman
10th June 2009, 7:37
Why do most people think that if FOTA create a new series that they have to be referees too?
They could easily find an independent body to regulate their sport.
scunnyman
10th June 2009, 7:40
sorry persempre i replied to prisoner monkeys before i go to your reply
Arnet
9th June 2009, 2:05
Another example of how stupid Mosley thinks everyone else is. His ego and sense of entitlement are incredible. Does he really think that FOTA don’t realize that changing the rules after joining would require a unanimous agreement, giving the minnows veto power?
As for Bernie, he also seems to think that people don’t remember what he said a week, a month or a few years before. In 2007, Mr. E signed a 15 year lease, with the promise to take over promoting the race. And now it’s the Turkish Prime Minister’s fault? Can’t admit that he took control of a fine circuit in a weak market and he’ll never make any money off it. Small man…….
Martin
9th June 2009, 3:33
Mosely and Ecclestone = the death of F1. If FOTA breaks away and just races at all the old traditional tracks and races like the days of old, then it will succeed. Also if the management of this new formula doesnt get greedy as all hell like Bernie, Maybe everyone involved can make money and keep the price of tickets down to where there will be a sellout in every venue. Bernie wants to blame Turkey for the lack of spectators, and maybe he is partially correct, but dont discount the price of tickets to these events as a more realistic reason as to why they arent being attended. That and the feuding.
I am tired of these races being run in these new facilities because the countries will bankroll it and Bernie gets all the profits, bring F1 back to the tracks that made it what it was, and quit neutering the tracks. The sport is inherently dangerous, and the dangerous corners are what seperate the rich pretty boys from the real racers.
Thelast race I attended was Spa several years ago and if not for the company I worked for had not purchased the tickets for us as a gift, many of us would not have attended with the cost of the ticket. As bad I as dislike certain series in the US like Nascar and Indy they make alot of their seats available for a reasonable price and that is why they selloout the stands. The tracks make huge amounts of money on concessionsand selling other apparel, they use the model that if you get them in the stands they will buy anything and everything, and it works. This is where the F1 model fails miserably, they want to charge not a premium but an over the top price for every item at the track, and that is killing attendance in these uncertain economic times.
It is all very very sad to watch.
manatcna
9th June 2009, 3:57
Yes, it is partly the cost of tickets, partly the transport to the track, but also (IMO) people are just getting fed up with all the politics.
I don’t think anyone really wants a breakaway series, I know I don’t.
Mosley is seen, rightly, (again, in my opinion), as the villain of the piece, but will his successor be any better?
I wonder.
Chaz
9th June 2009, 7:25
Yawn! The Bernie, Max and FOTA show drags on…
scunnyman
9th June 2009, 8:10
I’ve got to say that that FOTA really has to stick together and not give in to Mosley.
If they lose then they will no say at in F1 for years to come and Mosley will definitely get the backing to get another 50 years at the head of FIA.
Dr Jones
9th June 2009, 8:54
I don’t know but would you again trust Max on this? It feels like “sign-up or else…I promise…(not!)”
The teams, sponsors and fans are the ones who made this sport not Max & Bernie – they’re only managing it.
DGR-F1
9th June 2009, 9:01
Does this mean that Max is building up to announce that he has all the current teams on his list of entries for next year, and he will be waiting at the first race to watch them arrive?
If so, that is very wishful thinking on his part if there is no sign of any agreement between the two sides.
And how credible does that make his call for new teams sound if all he is going to do is favour the old ones?
Max needs to make a decision on this and pretty quickly.
As far as I am concerned, an F1 with new rules and new teams is no bad thing. It will still be racing, and it might be good racing too.
So the current teams will have to go and play somewhere else, but I would watch the likes of McLaren in GT racing and even NASCAR, and it might do them some good too, to broaden their horizons….
PJA
9th June 2009, 9:34
Mosley’s argument this time is just so weak.
He is saying if all the teams entered under his rules then they could change them in the future. But all the teams who are currently in F1 wanted to change the rules and that didn’t make much difference did it.
The only way anyone could be taken in by this letter is if they knew nothing of what has happened previously.
Dougie
9th June 2009, 11:25
Max may be playing a game here and putting the sport at risk, and I for one ain’t happy with this whole situation.
But, he’s no daft is he?
I suspect there were issues the teams couldn’t agree on between themselves, and Max was getting a bit fed up. So he said, look guys stick in a conditional entry and like that we’ve got a bit more time.
Then he pulls a blinder, oh! I can’t change the rules now, due to this article that you pulled me up on earlier in the year, we need to have unanimous agreement from all entrants. You need to enter then we can get this sorted for the good of all.
He knows, like we all do, history has shown even in the most co-operative times, that the teams just cannot agree unanimously on anything.
Now we will see just how united and strong FOTA is. It could go either way, I wouldn’t bet on any outcome.
persempre
9th June 2009, 11:47
:) That`s definitely the way Max works, Dougie.
However, this time he may have overstepped the mark. To have neither the F1 Commission or the teams direct agreement to regulations is possibly against every F1 agreement that has been signed since Max & Bernie started to run the show.
You can go so far but there comes a time when that gets to be too far. Max has gone too far this time, I think.
Dougie
9th June 2009, 12:35
Yep, Max & Bernie have played this game many times before and have got away with it. But this time is different, the teams are not going to lie down and take it, they’ve decided enough is enough, and rightly so. However Max is now showing how tough he is and how much he will dig his heels in.
Is that good for the sport, no it is not. Who is right? We’ll only ultimately know in 5 or 10 years.
By then it may be too late for the sport. I hope not.
persempre
9th June 2009, 13:32
No it`s far from good for the sport.
This time is slightly different, though, because Max has pushed it too far.
He wants to play with his own life sized set of Dinky Toys.
Eric
9th June 2009, 12:41
Keith hope you are kidding about covering Indy Car but let me help you. The winner of the Indy 500 turned left 800 times and raced against 3 girls!
Dougie
9th June 2009, 12:53
Paul Tracys a bit of a whinger maybe, but I wouldn’t go as far as to call him a girl! ;-)
Journeyer (@journeyer)
9th June 2009, 18:31
The war may be, just may be, coming to a close… for the moment, anyway:
http://twitter.com/5LiveF1/status/2091929190
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
9th June 2009, 18:47
Thanks Journeyer – have added to today’s links: F1 links: FIA and FOTA reach deal – report