Save F1 or stick with Mosley: the World Motor Sports Council’s choice (Updated)

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Today's World Motor Sports Council meeting is critical to F1's future

Today’s World Motor Sports Council meeting was originally set to ratify the FIA’s planned entry list for 2010.

But the failure of President Max Mosley to supply a list, and the declaration by eight of F1’s ten teams that they will form their own breakaway championship unless he steps aside, leaves the WMSC with a straight choice:

Cast Mosley aside – or provoke a split that could destroy Formula 1.

Update: Mosley claims the threat of a split has been avoided and he will not stand for re-election. More in the comments.

A credible threat?

It has been suggested by some that FOTA’s threat to form a breakaway championship is merely a bargaining tool with no serious weight behind it.

It would not be the first time such threats had been made and come to naught. Only four years ago the teams warned they would form their own Grand Prix World Championship but ultimately backed down. In 1980 the Formula One Constructors’ Association (led by Bernie Ecclestone and aided by Max Mosley) made a similar claim which also proved false.

FOTA is wisely presenting its breakaway championship as a last resort because it is the outcome no-one really wants. They have not event gone so far as to give it a name. Indeed, it was Mosley who first suggested they should break away, handing useful ammunition to FOTA who can now claim the whole thing was his idea, further undermining his position.

But does this mean we should doubt the seriousness of their threat? Some believe that, having announced their rival championship in June, FOTA cannot get it ready for the start of next year.

There has been speculation that Ferrari’s involvement in A1 Grand Prix (to which it supplies cars) means FOTA could adopt the infrastructure of the struggling series to get its championship up and running. This time last year the next A1 Grand Prix schedule had already been announced, but the 2009/10 calendar has not yet been published.

Nor should we discount the possibility of the teams decamping en masse to a rival championship – for example the Le Mans Series which, bolstered with a few rounds from its counterpart American series, could serve as an alternative. It would offer the technical freedom the teams crave, with petrol and diesel engines already competing side-by-side and hybrid engines due to be introduced soon.

The failure of ‘divide and rule’

Mosley’s hope that FOTA’s breakaway threat isn’t serious at least appears more realistic than the prospects of FOTA’s eight teams being divided. Writing in Autosport (sub. req.), Dieter Rencken suggests the total value of the bond entered into by the alliance is worth ??1bn (858m / $1.4bn), a powerful indication of their commitment not only to each other, but also to competing in international motor sport.

Bernie Ecclestone has said he is “not going to let things disintegrate over what is, in the end, basically nothing.” He hasn’t indicated which side of the divide he is going to come down on, but it would be a first for Ecclestone if he didn’t pick the one that is going to make him the most money. So ask yourself, are the sponsors and the cash-rich Asian governments going to pour their cash into the championship with Force India and Campos or the one with Ferrari and McLaren?

Today the World Motor Sports Council must ask how the FIA president has managed to take eight teams including some of F1’s most historic names, who are prepared to commit to competing in Formula 1 in the future, and alienate them from the sport entirely. With Luca di Montezemolo representing Ferrari and FOTA to put forwards their case, it is likely to be an explosive event.

The alternative Mosley offers is a world championship bereft not only of its major competitors, but increasing numbers of the new teams that submitted entries for 2010, which are now backing away because the sport is in such a mess.

FOTA is not seeking a break from F1 or even a break from the FIA – it wants Max Mosley replaced by someone they can trust. If the WMSC does not take a clear step towards making that a reality, then with every passing day the dire prospect of a split in Formula 1 will become even more likely.

More on the FIA-FOTA row

Author information

Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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146 comments on “Save F1 or stick with Mosley: the World Motor Sports Council’s choice (Updated)”

  1. Mosley out, Nick Craw in, baby!! :)

    1. Well m8 i have very little faith in FIA anymore so if this guy is a s good as you think, and no real compromise can be found in this saga, then maybe he can be brought in to any organisation setup to oversee FOTA’s as President?

    2. Prisoner Monkeys
      24th June 2009, 6:50

      Alternately, Michel Boeri. He was considered the natural successor to Jean-Marie Balstere. I can’t remember Balstere because I was six years old when he left, but I can’t see how anybody could be worse than Max Mosley, unless it’s Megatron (yeah, I just saw Revenge of the Fallen, so ebar with me).

      1. Sush Meerkat
        24th June 2009, 7:38

        The parallels between Megatron and Max Mosley are striking now you mention it Prisoner.

      2. OMG prisoner you young pup, i thought with your comments that you was an old fart.
        wow!!! lol

  2. Bernie needs to go to. I was amazed when I watched the Silverstone coverage how everyone was saying how Bernie is the only man who can fix things. No, he’s part of the problem, taking too much money and simply going to wherever pays the most.

    1. You are right on the money. Bernie has destroyed F1 with his going to all these asian tracks and other places that have no true place in motorsports. He also only picks countries and cities that he can extort millions of dollars out of just to have the race. If it was so important why didnt they have tracks 30 or even 20 years ago. Only countries in the far eas that should be on the schedule are Japan and Austrailia, the other countries can try but they arent part of the F1 world.

      1. I always thought F1 was global….

        1. Not really, It has always mainly been a europe and Americas thing. It only became an venue in the far east(excluding japan and austrailia) when Bernie went after the huge money to line his pockets.
          If the global financial meltdown was truly as bad as Max and others would lead you to believe, there would already be no F1 as companies would have already pulled all their sponsorship. Honda left because they were getting their asses handed to them left and right after dumping all that money into it and they just wanted out. It wasnt like the last time when Williams and Mclaren were using their engins and cleaning up big time.
          When the chips are truly down, only the real players are going to play. That includes the nations that have made F1 what it is, and that isnt malaysia or China or any Mid east tracks. Going back to the old tracks that made the sport is the key. That and getting rid of Bernie and Max.

          1. Indeed — countries without home-grown open-wheel racing at F3 level or above are just not ready to get their own F1 race. They are just prestige projects for the national governments.

    2. “In 1980 the Formula One Constructors’ Association (led by Bernie Ecclestone and aided by Max Mosley) made a similar claim which also proved false.”
      I wonder if Max has been thinking that, and still thinking that FOTA is bluffing, because when he and bernie challenged the governing body it turned out to be a bluff.
      I believe there is too much at stake for FOTA to be bluffing, and if they are then my respect for what they are doing will drop like a stone.
      “There has been speculation that Ferrari’s involvement in A1 Grand Prix (to which it supplies cars) means FOTA could adopt the infrastructure of the struggling series to get its championship up and running. This time last year the next A1 Grand Prix schedule had already been announced, but the 2009/10 calendar has not yet been published.”
      Now can anyone tell me if this A1GP series is really a viable colution? I have never watched it, and i don’t know the circuits. What would happen to the current teams in A1GP? the staff, the drivers. I’m guessing that because the calendar for next years’s A1GP has not been published yet as it should have been by now that it is being considered.
      But the problem is far more elaborate than just having the WMSC saving F1. Yes they may decide to insist on Mosley stepping down,(highly doubtful), especially as mosley will be able to make the case for blaming FOTA for this whole mess. But how do we know there aren’t dozens more in FIA who are just as bad and would not make the changes in the governance of F1 which are necessary. So really the WMSC need to do far more than forcing Mosley out. I don’t know how far WMSC’s power goes, but they need to remove Mosley and get his Vice-President out too, then get FOTA to sit down with FIA and negotiate an end to the split where FOTA can be satisfied with a change in how F1 is governed.

      Now during the BBC’s covergae of qualifying for the British Grand prix there was a lot of talk about getting Bernie Ecclestone to sort this problem out, even going as far as asking him to his face. Don’t they realise that Bernie is as much to blame for this situation as Mosley, and with so many people thinking he can sort this out only feeds his giant EGO.
      The WMSC needs to look at how Bernie, FOM and CVC are running the sport and see how things can be changed for the better.

      Maybe the WMSC can organise a meeting between FIA, Bernie Ecclestone/CVC and FOTA to try and mediate a way out of this mess. I would also say, if it is possible and allowed their could be someone who is totally impartial to head the meeting to oversee proceedings to make sure everyone talks properly, and not resort to name calling (yes i’m talking to you Max Mosley).
      I would say they need impartiality, because i don’t fully trust the WMSC.

      1. You are wise not to trust. They have proven that they are all in colution.
        They make bad decisions and then have aggressive reactions to criticism.
        In retrospect, alot of the harrasing of Mclaren now seem to shed more light inot the problems at the FIA and WMSC.
        Maybe spygate was justified, but it was really between the teams Ferrari and Mclaren, the FIA and WMSC should have stayed out of it.
        I also believe that they overreacted to Hamilton lying this season in the opener.
        I believe the inflated that issue to deflect other issues within F!.

      2. Sush Meerkat
        24th June 2009, 7:43

        I wonder if Max has been thinking that, and still thinking that FOTA is bluffing, because when he and bernie challenged the governing body it turned out to be a bluff

        I was thinking that too Scunnyman, if he thinks that way then his massive intellect took a stubble.

        Alot of talk about Luca versus Max in the media, I think people need to think about John Howett.

        He’s a businessman first and foremost, his love and passion isn’t F1, he’s only the top Toyota man because of his skills in business. We need a psycho evaluation of him instead for once.

  3. What are you going to do when F1 dies Keith? do FOTAfanatic or carry on f1fanatic and follow a glamorised F3 series :P

    1. Sush Meerkat
      24th June 2009, 7:47

      FOTA wont be allowed to call themselves FOTA when the poo hits the fan.

      Because it has Formula 1 in the name.

      1. Yes Sush i said the exact same thing the other day.

        I wonder what they will change their name to?

        Maybe something they can use in the championship name too. Hopefully something catchy.

        Nope… can’t think of anything.

        1. “F1” and “IndyCar” are nice, short and catchy. Champ Car tried something like “Champ Car World Series” which was too long.

          Maybe “Grand Prix 1”? Or would they get sued by whoever holds GP2 rights?

          1. My understanding is that Bernie owns the right to the name “GP1”. So that’s that.

      2. poo hits the fan.


  4. The FIA will support Mosley because they are all hand picked yes men without any interest in motorsport. Mosley will tell them what to do and they will do it. I fear tomorrow will be a disaster for formula one

    but my fingers are crossed

    1. I hope they do exactly what Max tells them to do. Then the true colors of the Fia will be known and they will have signed their own demise.
      Fota can make this work. They can do it if they dont get super greedy and let everyone involved make money. Not just 1 or 2 as has happened with Bernie and Max.

  5. One can only hope that the WMSC will see sense and ditch Mosley, whilst Bernie accepts that the game is up and agrees to take much less money.

    Whether it will happen is another matter…

    1. What i’d like to know Keith, or anybody who knows.
      If the FIA sold the commercial rights to F1 for $240m to Bernie for 99 years, where did FIA get the rights? and what did the FIA do with the $240m.
      I was under the impression that the FIA was non profit, i don’t see where $240m has been spent in F1.

      1. they placed the $320 into a fund. the interest earned from that money is spent on safety and other developments. ie. none of the principal has as yet been spent.

        FIA sold them the rights to the FIA F1 world championship. Bernie actually holds the trademarks within one of his many operating companies.

  6. Fota wants Max replaced with someone they can trust, that would be Ferrari then…..

  7. Personally I think regardless of the decision today the teams will still tell the FIA to get lost. The issue is about power and money and rightly so. There is no contract tying the 5 teams to the f1 championship. As for the other three teams there is a valid argument they have been breached and a court case will be heard. Not only this nobody can stop them competing in a championship in another championship. Bernie and the FIA have stuffed up because they didn’t tie the teams in when they had a chance and to make matters worse the FIA have not adhered to the Concorde agreement in particular the introduction of new rules.
    FOTA will start a new series, it wont be as valuable as f1 is but, the teams will be earning as much money if not considerably more if the start one, inturn cancelling this bulls**t financial think max keeps going on about. The only thing that will be different is the name f1, vs A1 or FOTA GP. Max getting the sack wont do a thing. It is the rules and money.

    1. If Fota plays this right they get rid of the both of them(Bernie and Max). All they have to do is get a few good people in the marketing area and make the tracks a decent deal where they all make money and everyone will win, the teams, the tracks, the merchandisers and best of all us, the fans.
      CVC may go belly up but so what, they shouldnt have relied on Bernie so much. They would have made a ton of money except ALL thye could see was the great fortunes guaranteed by Bernie, and the only places willing to pay it are the far east right now. Just look, Hochenheim is saying they cant afford the race anymore, so is France, Canada, the US told them to **** off after the debacle of 2006, even Silverstone couldnt aford Bernie and company.(talk about a man that would sell his own mother and ship her COD)
      No, I think that a little bit of poetic justice is being dealt out right now after all the years of taking advantage of the teams the sport and the fans.

      1. Spot on Martin! FIA should also consider the fact that their name worldwide has been massively tarnished by Mosley’s presidency.

      2. rules won’t be the same – we will have refueling ban, movable rear wings and possibly larger rear tyres so balance issues by using KERS won’t be so big…

        Maybe FOTA managed to pull through their revamped points system proposal too… one can hope.

  8. The WMSC cannot ditch Max at this juncture because the FIA Statutes do not permit it. The most they can do in that direction is persuade someone on the FIA Senate to propose a vote of confidence, which will take between four and six weeks to activate.

  9. It is governance,fair return on investment, perceived value, and equall to al the preceeding, fair treatment ANDvalue for thr fans, who in the long run actually pay for it all through consumerism.
    Fota, break away, no matter what happens tomorrow. You can return to the fold when there is a worthy fold to return to.


  10. theRoswellite
    24th June 2009, 3:38

    The strength of “F1” resides primarily in the fan base. They don’t watch, they don’t attend….the series dies.

    Secondarily, the heart of “F1” comes from having the best teams and drivers in the world.

    In the last place of honor comes the regulating body. The FIA has developed the view that the governing body, not the governed occupy the seat of real power. Mr. Mosley should review his basic political history, or perhaps he skipped class the day this concept was presented.

    “F1”, by any name, can exist if it responds to the wishes of it’s constituency. A “new” formula, under FOTA, will do this, and the fans will follow.

    “F1” will not die with a seperation from the FIA, in fact it will begin to function in a much more reasonable and responsive manner.

    Goodnight Mr. Mosley……soon to be followed by your shadow.

    1. Well said.

  11. I dont understand why some people believe that FOTA will not be able to setup their own series. BMW already has Formula BMW, Renault has Formula Renault, Ferrari have their affiliation with A1GP and Red Bull have their own air race. I would venture to say that they could very easily start a new series if they wish too, and most importantly they also have the money.

    FOTA doesn’t need Bernie, and part of their argument is the current revenue distribution and outstanding revenue, so Bernie are not going to be part of the series (if there is one)and he shouldn’t be.

    It will be interesting to see how the WMSC reacts today, in light of the fact that Mosley have stated his intentions for again running as FIA president.

  12. Prisoner Monkeys
    24th June 2009, 6:56

    I think that if they could get him on their terms, FOTA would take Bernie Ecclestone for the simple fact that the man knows all the right people to hlp them get started. He knows more about setting up events and securing commercial agreements than anyone else in the sport, and can make FOTA’s life much, much easier. Given the chance, they’d be mad not to take him on if he were agreeable.

    As for the FIA, I’ve been hanging around the Autosport forums a bit lately – and generally causing chaos there – and a lot of them seem to think tat the FIA is made up entirely of Mosley’s lapdogs. It’s true that the President has too much power, but surely there’s at least one person in the organisation who is questioning things. FOTA are insisting they’re unhappy with the sport’s governance, Mosley keep changing his stance from negotiation to litigation to negotiation, the manufacturers’ union is with FOTA when Mosley was sure they’d side with him. To me, just one of these is evidence enough that something is very wrong with the sport, but we have all three … what does that tell you?

  13. It would be great if at least for once, this matter will be fixed (and closed) today, but I’m afraid, the never-ending story of FIA-FOM-TEAMS will continue for many months.

    I’m really tired of listening this “song” every year; with different matters (Spygate, sex scandal, breakaway…), but always with the same protagonist: Max Mosley.

  14. The FIA are useless in my opinion, yeah you need rules to race but the FIA isnt made of drivers or even fans, its men in suits led by a perverted Nazi…

    They also proved their rules are rubbish, the rules for this year for example, KERS has been a monumental waste of money which is now only being used by 1 team trying to get a return… they then say next year the teams must not spend much money, where do they get off? also all this aerodynamic busines, there is no notable change in the racing from all their new rules, and now trying to inplement even worse ones they have driven the teams away… they are so useless.

    Lets have the new series :) Id call it FTFIA- F the FIA :D

    1. FF1 would be better (F*** F1)

  15. I think that a key factor is that this is possibly the third or fourth time Max has promised to step down at the end of a year, and then decided after a ‘crises’ that in fact he cannot go as he is the only man able to sort it out.
    So there are a few questions to come out of this:
    1. Does the man believe that motorsport (and F1 in particular) is only there to boost his ego?
    2. How many of the recent ‘crises’ have been engineered by him and his cronies to keep him in power?
    3. Why does he still have a following within the FIA when by now its obvious he is on a power-trip?
    4. How much damage is all this doing to the rest of motorsport? Especially that ‘controlled’ by the FIA?
    5. When will he admit that the FOTA argument is nothing to do with his ‘cost-cutting’ measures?

    1. 1. Does the man believe that motorsport (and F1 in particular) is only there to boost his ego?

      Well i’m sure when Max first got into motorpsort he had a passion and wanted to help improve it, and to a certain extent he has. However, like his dad, he thrives on power and the thrill of an argument. It is well known that he is VERY intelligent, and a lot of these type of guys tend to start arguments so they can win and make you look stupid and make them look powerful. Right now i would say his passion for motorsport has changed to one of ego boosting yes.

      2. How many of the recent ‘crises’ have been engineered by him and his cronies to keep him in power?

      Most if not all i would say.

      3. Why does he still have a following within the FIA when by now its obvious he is on a power-trip?

      In my own personal opinion i would have to say it is down to stuff he has got on people making them scared to go against Max. Or Monies paid to certain individuals/organisations etc. Maybe favours made to certain parties. Or perhaps all the above.

      4. How much damage is all this doing to the rest of motorsport? Especially that ‘controlled’ by the FIA?

      I’m sure all or most of the other FIA governed racing series are looking at this problem very closely. If it can happen in F1 then it can happen in any of the others.
      This saga could well spell the end of the FIA, or the FIA as we know it. And it might come sooner than anyone might think.

      5. When will he admit that the FOTA argument is nothing to do with his ‘cost-cutting’ measures.


      It’s all FOTA’s fault, not his, not Bernie’s. he blames everyone else but himself. He is king of the hill and doesn’t want to let it go. It’s time for someone to knock him off his hill.

      Good questions DGR-F1. thanks

  16. is it only me that thinks that F1 teams should not be the ones ruling the sport?

    The FIA is THE one that is supposed to be making the rules, granted, they should listen to fans more, they should accommodate the teams, but the fact of the matter is that Mosley seems to be wanting to bring down expenses, while the teams seem to want more money.

    sorry to all of you but i just don’t see it. I know Bernie is overcharging on everything, i know Mosley is covering for him, and both are long friends and partners and i’m sure they are in cohort together for their own benefit, but they are businessmen.

    in any case, the teams should be aware that if truly they need to split, then there is no point for any of them carrying on this season. the legalities will be the same whether they quit now or in a few month. as costly as the economical ramification are going to be, splitting F1 is in my opinion tantamount to erasing 60 years of motorsport history that included an uncountable amount of pride from personal to national, it would be disrespecting every single driver, champion that has raced or won, every driver that has died while competing or marshal that gave his life to the sport, not to mention the scores of fans that died on the sidelines in the early days.
    to me if FOTA split it will be the same as an F1 Holocaust, you just don’t erase history and make it banal. you soldier on and find a solution for the sake of the sport not your own money.

    I think F1’s future depends on independent teams, manufacturers can supply engines and know how but they should not be allowed to own a team as this puts the competition under the mercy of the economy, and in fact the mechanical department that should rely on manufacturers in some case would be best handled as a contractual business, where all the independent teams build the cars and have the option to buy an engine/powertrain, or build them themselves if they can do it within budget.

    i think in that philosophy, we could wind down the inexplicable budgets, make F1 more road car relative, not in terms of speed, but in terms of manufacturing, and technological spin offs that can render the production and running of the road cars more efficient.

    do that and then the manufacturers, all of them will be fighting for a spot to back a team’s R&D. and they would be lucky to get one and not the other way around.

    Ferrari are one of the main columns of F1, and Enzo’s philosophy was to bankrol his team by selling cars, now i think Ferrari make more money from F1 than they do selling cars. and i think that is almost the opposite of what Enzo envisaged, at the least Ferrari and co. should not take F1 down by asking for more money, which is what Fota is doing and IMO as Bernie said, is nothing.

    on the other hand, i think the fastest solution to solve this case is for Mosley to soften up and raise the budget limit to a more reasonable level, and make the cap under that limit voluntary. in the meantime the two tier should be stopped until all teams conform to a certain tight cap. then when they are there they will be free to unleash their collective engineering imagination to squeeze horses and newtons into G’s.

    1. in any case, the teams should be aware that if truly they need to split, then there is no point for any of them carrying on this season.

      They won’t stop – they’re racing on for the fans.

      you soldier on and find a solution for the sake of the sport not your own money.

      or power, as it may be. But tell Max and Bernie that.

      on the other hand, i think the fastest solution to solve this case is for Mosley to soften up and raise the budget limit to a more reasonable level, and make the cap under that limit voluntary.

      It’s not about the cap anymore, it’s about governance. The only FIA that FOTA will accept is one not led by Max Mosley, and one that creates rules based on their input. Otherwise, what’s the point of staying? The new F1 may not be named F1, but we all know that it IS F1.

      1. Maybe JOURNEYER it’s a case of RONMAN not understanding the rest of us. Sorry Ronman if i am wrong there.

    2. Ronman have a look at what DGR-F1 is saying. he got there before me.

      “The FIA are not there to make the rules, only to police them in a supposedly independent manner. Check and see for yourself how much else they do apart from interfere in F1.”

      1. It’s not that i don’t understand you guys, i perfectly understand what you guys are saying, and do agree with a lot of it.

        but As F1 fans we should also be pushing for a resolution to this crisis.

        If the new F1 as Journeyer puts it is the real F1 (according to us) but is know as Fx. what would the old F1. i don’t want F1 to be a spec series, but i am against bluffing and pushing people out for ulterior motives while hiding behind other lesser motives.

        first it was about rules, second it was about the money and making people redundant, now it’s about governance and the fact that people want Mosley out.
        after all the FIA will carry on, it has to and it is the world’s most recognized automotive sporting regulatory authority.

        in most of the world, if you want to create a competition that involves wheels you need the FIA’s approval. and if Fota want to compete on their own they need the FIA, so what next?

        if the guy that replaces Mosley is as adamant about reduced budgets, what would Fota do.

        i suspect they will push for someone that is friends with the teams and manufacturers, and then the FIA will become FOTA’s slave, like FIA was Ferrari’s to a certain point (in the view of many).

        it reminds me of Lebanese politics.

        in any case, this is getting too political, and what i know of politics is that the people, in this case the fans, are the worst losers, because at the end of the day, all these gimps will meet in Monaco sometime and have dinner together, so this will be my last input on the matter. until the sport resumes….

        1. “in most of the world, if you want to create a competition that involves wheels you need the FIA’s approval. and if Fota want to compete on their own they need the FIA, so what next?”

          I’m afraid this is just not true. many racing series around the world, especially in USA do not have the FIA in charge.

          If FOTA do not want FIA then they can easily get some other organisation to oversee the series.

          1. Hence the use Most, not all… and the Fia has an understanding with the EU on that matter, if FOTA want to be based in the US, then it’s a different issue, Americans never conformed to international institutions anyway…however that is an entirely different subject that requires research on the specifics of the regulations in each separate country, and how it applies internationally.

    3. Making rules and enforcing rules, are two different things. Police don’t make laws, they enforce them. The FIA would also be responsible for overseeing any FOTA led series, the only difference is that they don’t own the series.
      Its also noteworthy that the FIA has recently turned F1 into a popularity contest. Teams are not happy that relatively trivial issues, such as the race stewards briefings and any outcome, are turned into mountains, aswell as the negative publicity it attracts. Horner of Redbull also said, F1 should be about races, not pointless inquiries.

      The FIA governs motor sport, they don’t own motor sport.

  17. The FIA are not there to make the rules, only to police them in a supposedly independent manner. Check and see for yourself how much else they do apart from interfere in F1.

  18. If the FIA World Motor Sports Council supports M.R. Mosley, I wouldn’t be surprised if B.C. Ecclestone jumped ship to FOTA, along with his F1 trademarks. He may again be the one running the commercial side of the sport, possibly along with F. Briatore, too keep him somewhat in line.

    This would leave the FIA without a (serious) championship, consequently leading to Williams, Force India and other new entrants to join FOTA, while CVC Capital Partners suffers massive debts. Which would be a suitable revenge on this vulture fund.

    1. I don’t know about this Lustigson, but maybe Mosley made sure there was a clause in the contract when the FIA sold the commercial rights to Ecclestone to the effect that Bernie had to side with him in any dispute, and that is why Bernie felt he had made a mistake when he went against Mosley over the News Of The World story, for fear Mosley might actually do something about it.

      1. I’d be surprised by such a clause. I think it goes against the EU’s stipulation of seperate regulatory (FIA) and commercial (FOM) bodies.

        Perhaps Ecclestone has been hard at work behind the scenes to broker one of his (in)famous deals. He’s been relatively quite the last couple of weeks.

    2. I believe that CVC’s deal is with FOM (i.e. Bernie, and the F1 name & marks), so with Bernie comes CVC.

      Whether CVC would be prepared to take a smaller cut remains to be seen.

  19. Well surely keeping Mosely would be the final nail in F1’s coffin. If he thinks by staying president and trying to ‘talk things through’, the teams running rampant will flock back, then he’s got another thing coming. It’s going to turn into an ugly break up, with much name calling.

  20. Max Mosely has pre-empted the WMSC. Never has a tail so effectively wagged a dog.

    The line has been drawn clearly in the sand.

    1. This man has gone mad… The Q&A from DGR-F1 and scunnyman stand clear :) another example for, how well he can make reasons to contend in the FIA re-election.

      Max Mosley, you can rather write in one letter to FIA that “I’ll be the president of FIA as long as I exist… I’ve all the rights to do all the non-sense and you all idiots do nothing but watch me doing it and support me, understand?”

  21. I never believed Mosley when he said last year that he would not stand for election again.

    He claims he has to stay around because of the crisis in F1, a tactic often used by politicians, saying the situation needs experience and continuity, yet many people believe that Mosley has been the main factor in how F1 has got into this mess.

    He has also tried to secure his support within the FIA by claiming FOTA’s attacks on him are in fact attacks on the FIA.

    The no confidence vote last year showed that Mosley has managed to build a strong powerbase in the FIA, so I doubt Mosley will be forced from power.

    I would be surprised if after today’s meeting the threat of a break away series is less than it is now.

  22. The Dutch Bear
    24th June 2009, 10:32

    Mosley is, I’m afraid capable of killing F1 if that’s necessary to save his position. He doesn’t care about F1 he wants to stay there. It’s time to get rid of Mosley and Ecclestone. Mosley reigns f1 in a way his father’s friend Hitler did. Ecclestone because he’s getting old and only interested in money. It’s time that the fans are the boss and not a Nazi, a elderly guy and some stupid big shots who are there mostly because they’re friends or family of a Third-World dictator.

    Only we’ll have to find someone else. Jackie Stewart maybe?
    I would like to:
    Name: Jeroen de Beer (in English: Jeroen the Bear)
    Dutch boy
    16 years old
    Watching F1 as long as I can remember, since 1998.
    Addicted to F1 since.
    Doesn’t care about the money, only about the sport.
    Interested in politics.
    Speaks English, French and German.
    Would like to start the job as soon as possible.

  23. The argument that “sponsors will automatically follow Ferrari/McLaren off into the sunset” is deeply flawed. No one – not one single sponsor – is going to back Ferrari and McLaren if their series isn’t on TV, or broadcast on some premium sports channel costing £50 per month or more.

    They are after exposure. Not history. Not prestige. Not integrity. All those things are great, but if nobody sees them then there’s no point in the sponsors being there. The FOTA teams will have a very hard time getting sponsorship unless they can put together some realistic and sensible TV deals, and that is going to cost – rather than make – them a lot of money.

    1. I’ll say again the key to FOTA’s success is ferr to air tv coverage. without it no chance.

      1. Agreed. There are 3 critical factors that any commercially viable world-wide Grand Prix racing series needs:

        1. Ferrari
        2. Monaco
        3. TV

        1. I agree Lustigson.

          But Fota Could have Monaco and Ferrari, but if you have a situation where only a small percentage of current fans can see the racing then it will fail.

          Tv coverage is by far the biggest hurdle for FOTA in setting up their series.

          1. I’m not too sure about this. If it’s that big a hurdle, I mean, since there’s a plethora of TV stations likely to be willing to broadcast the FOTA races. For Europe, e.g., which would likely be the core audience for FOTA, if they could do a deal with Eurosport, they’d cover practically the entire content.

    2. Bigbadderboom
      24th June 2009, 11:15

      Mario Theison stated that there was not a single current sponsor of the current team who were not in support of FOTA and the new series. In fact this commotion has caused quite a stir as the exposure these sponsors are now getting, and would continue to get is far greater than that of 12 months ago. The TV rights and broadcasting options are key to any success but already the BBC and Sky Italia are looking at their contracts with FOM, I think it’s important to understand that in my opinion this proposal from FOTA would see an evolution in F1, both series would not survive, and with the leading teams, leading drivers, biggest sponsors and approx 85% support from the fans, i know who I would put my money on!!
      FOTA have support from some of the biggest companies in the world BMW, TOYOTA, RENAULT, VODAFONE, MERCEDES, SANTENDA, SHELL, ETC. If the FIA cannot make concessions and compromises to the satisfaction of FOTA, then Bernie faces some difficult decisions, and CVC partners some difficult times, they have some heavy debts to service.

    3. If there are fans, there will be television. If there is television, there will be sponsors.

      Just look at IndyCar. The Indy 500 is covered by ABC, one of the worlds’ largest broadcasters. The other races are carried by some regional cable channel no one gets.

      If FOTA has the fans (and they do, because we follow the stars and cars), it will get the television deals.

  24. interesting comments guys

  25. There’s nothing worth saving.

    Save the Fota position on doing a new series. Luca di Montezemolo is getting bigger and bigger by the time. Good for him. and for us fans also: we’ll fortunately get rid of all nasty commercial **** made by Ecclestone.

    Bring different tracks with different officials as countries change. Bring racing reality and not some psp game. Let people watch free to air tv channels and all sort of internet info.

    Max is after all Ecclestone’s attorney.

    1. Woohoo!

      He is one guy I won’t miss.

      Now let’s just hope they get that in writing. I don’t trust him.

  26. Peace breaks out!!

    No Break away and Max wont stand for re-election

  27. More of the same…
    A pity.
    Time to call off this addition.

  28. Bigbadderboom
    24th June 2009, 12:40

    Good Good Good, I hope tyhe finer details are what we all want to hear!!! Bye Bye Spanky!!!!

  29. sad to say, it is all about money. not the sport, not the teams and not the fans. F1 is business, money and nothing else. Do you think the breakaway series would mind the fans at all? don’t get me wrong, i am for the breakaway series too. but i’m just looking both sides before i cross the street.

  30. HounslowBusGarage
    24th June 2009, 12:44

    So the price appears to be Max’s departure. This was a line of defense he put up in only the past few days, so I wonder what he extracted from FOTA in exchange for this concession.
    Let’s see the details about the budget cap etc.

  31. Jonesracing82
    24th June 2009, 12:47

    put the question another way = “is max mosley bigger than Formula 1” simple answer is no!
    they have to do whats best for the sport, and if anything is to be learned from Champcar/IRL than now is the time to show it! the FOTA teams will stay if Max goes, so “Max or the Teams” i say teams!

  32. BBC reports Agreement reached, Max is NOT standing for re-election

  33. just revealed the same message..looks like it’s going to come alright :)

  34. But Bernie stays… and so will the middle and far east mickey mouse tracks with no local public and broadcast in the most inconvenient schedules, not to mention their European Herman Tilke created sibilings.
    Furthermore, we will still have USGP, Campos, Force India (and what is the name of the other empty box?) in the grid.

    1. Bigbadderboom
      24th June 2009, 13:15

      Interesting point Antifa, but this whole affair may have shaken Bernie up enough for him to acknowledge that whats best fot FOM and CVC Partners is not what is best for F1, perhaps there should be a concerted effort to lobby the F1/CVC/FOM to have a return to some of the more traditional tracks, where promoters maybe able to recoup Bernies extortionate fees, as some fans may turn up!

  35. Whats wrong with the middle and far east races? if you don’t like it then don’t watch it. boycott it if you want. the other part of the world wants to see F1 to. and if they can afford it why not. Are you envy of asian people that can watch f1 at their own nation? At least, Singapore has offered the 1st night F1 race. and not mentioning how far greater the new tracks in asia compared to your historical tracks. We are speaking of sports here, not history. maybe you should change your channel.

    1. Bigbadderboom
      24th June 2009, 13:18

      If it makes commercial sense then there is no argument but when governments are funding races that are barely attended then it is bad for promoters, sponsors, advertisers and spectaters elsewhre who are being deprived of their opportunity to attend a race in their country!!!!

    2. … the other part of the world wants to see F1 to.

      Although I don’t begrudge anyone a Grand Prix, but the empty grandstands at Turkey, Shanghai et cetera are a statement to the contrary of yours.

      1. …contrary to yours.

        1. The sport is still growing and has not yet established a reputation like what you have in europe. but wait for few more years, bet you can’t drop a needle.

    3. They are boring . lame and not interesting. I do change channels when it gets boring. Other than Japan and Austrailia, none of the far east or mid east tracks are woth warching.

      1. blame it to the track designer and not to the track owner. now tell me, who is the designer?

      2. maybe that’s the reason why the people are not going to races. because the track is boring. and who designs the tracks. please tell me. i am both ears listening.

        1. He goes by the name of Tilke, Herman Tilke, and he’s trying to take Nurburgring Dust and sprinkle it around the world acording to one Discovery channel documentary i saw.

          I still don’t understand how he gets to design almost all the new tracks.

          1. Thanks Ronman, i know of Herman Tilke. I’m just pointing something out. and I hope, people won’t descriminate the F1 races in the far and middle east. …They are rich and have the capacity to pay people to built tracks, tracks looks good, F1 sees prospects on beautiful tracks, F1 hold races at the beautiful tracks, races turn out to be boring because of the design, now… tell me who’s to blame.

          2. Herman Tilke, the FIA rules on new track design, and Bernie for being hungry for money instead of keeping the racing where the fans are. All are to blame.

    4. For starters, go tell those who may care for you what they might watch or not. Regarding your Asian tracks, they are rubish. Everyone who have a hint of what F1 is about would rather watch 10 Silverstone GPS in a row than watching a sequence of China, Singapore, Malasia, Bahrain, Turkey, Abu Dabi and their likes. They are no match to Sebring, Zandvoord, Brands Hatch, Watkings Glen, Paul Ricard, Mugello…and so goes the list. On top of that, people do come to the GPs in Europe, South and North America – they don’t in Asia. And in addition, Asia has never had a reasonable F1 driver to speak of. Finland would deserve a GP much sooner than would any country in Asia.

      1. That is because the sports is still new to us. try remembering circa 60s Macau Grand Prix. A certain Filipino named Dodgie Laurel win 2 consecutive championships but had a fatal accident that cause his F1 dream to die. macau grand prix for your information was where like ayrton Senna, schumacher brothers, mika hakkinen, david coulthard and the like participated before their f1 career.

      2. Spot on. and too have a GP in your country where the average citizen cannot afford it or that point even interested in it. To fill the stands they just either give out the tickets or require people to attend. That is why the sport should never have left the old tracks.
        Bernie and Max/Fia are the reason we are seeing all these tracks pop up like little boring seeds.

  36. Reading the BBC Report Max is definitely putting his spin on it.

    My interpretation is that Max has backed down on the Regulations and the WMSC has asked him to step down.

    He hasn’t manage to completely wipe all the egg off his face. :-D

    1. You’ve got to hand it to the guy for his spinning ability: a peace agreement has been reached, so I won’t have to stand for re-election!

  37. Tilke and Bernie stay. For me this is a compromise to far – I’m a bit deflated by the news personally.

    1. too far (apologies)

  38. Bigbadderboom
    24th June 2009, 13:23

    Lets wait for the budgetry constraints to be published, I hope they rac 2010 without caps and then look for reductions.

    1. Mosley says:

      There will be one F1 championship but the objective is to get back to the spending levels of the early 90s within two years.

      So I reckon there will indeed be a £100 million ‘resource restricion’ for 2010, going down to £40 million for 2011.

      As an aside: this could leave enough money compared to current budgets for Ferrari, Toyota et al to go to Le Mans anyways. ;)

      1. Bigbadderboom
        24th June 2009, 13:33

        The thing about caps is that you want the best car at the first race, so you spendm most of your budget, then some bright spark like Adrian Newey sticks something fantastic on the RB, nobody else has anymore cash to develop unplanned new parts, therefore the whole season is lost as nobody can develop to catch up. I wonder how much was spent by the teams developing Double Diffusers this year??

  39. No breakaway? Aww rubbish.

  40. Mosley wont stand for re – election!!!!!!!!!

  41. Great news i think,

    Looking forward for the entry list and reconfigured regulations above all.

    I know a lot of you here hate Mosley,I don’t particularly like him, but he’s one hell of a nutcase politician. He got his limit, the teams agreed to cut down, although i would love to see the numbers. and he promised not to run again*.

    We know he’s done that before.

    I would love to know what Bernie let go off to make this happen.

  42. Knowing Max, he will still try his best to destroy F1 before he leaves. I just wonder how many teams will be accused of cheating and receive race bans, fines and also have their names dragged through the mud.

  43. Too bad… Max out is good news where ever… But I was really feeling good about a new revamped Formula One rules by someone in touch with all teams, better rules and more technoligie.

    To have next yeat the same rules as this year… it letting the already dying Formula One… to really end…

  44. Michel Boeri the new F1 president!?

    1. Oh he’s just taking it over. Taking what over though? Max’s position?

  45. ComeBackMontoya
    24th June 2009, 14:41

    I’m interested to hear a response from FOTA on this. Are they really going to take Max at his word?

    Max has already stood for re-election once after saying he wouldn’t, then after the whole ‘privacy incident’ he said he would stand down next time, and has since said he’ll stay. How come we believe him this time?

    Just as we all started to get used to the idea of a better championship this happens :-(

    I really hope F1 can learn from this, and learn fast, I want all the things promised by FOTA, including cheaper entrance to races, more consultation with fans. None of this will happen, not while Bernie has his hands in everyone’s pockets.

  46. Max might be gone, but that is like getting rid of Vader whilst the Emperor is still around. Bernie has to go now too or else we will end seeing more races in places that don’t deserve them.
    I liked seeing the possible places that FOTA would go to, but if Bernie is around he will never go where the true fans are, unless they are all millionaires of course.

    1. Top marks for the Star Wars reference :)

  47. The World Motor Sport Council met in Paris on 24 June 2009. The following decisions were taken:


    All currently competing teams have committed to the FIA Formula One World Championship.

    There will be no alternative series or championship and the rules for 2010 onwards will be the 2009 regulations as well as further regulations agreed prior to 29 April 2009.

    As part of this agreement, the teams will, within two years, reduce the costs of competing in the championship to the level of the early 1990s. The manufacturer teams have agreed to assist the new entries for 2010 by providing technical assistance.

    The manufacturer teams have further agreed to the permanent and continuing role of the FIA as the sport’s governing body. They have also committed to the commercial arrangements for the FIA Formula One World Championship until 2012 and have agreed to renegotiate and extend this contract before the end of that period.

    All teams will adhere to an upgraded version of the governance provisions of the 1998 Concorde Agreement.

    The following teams have been accepted for the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship.


    TEAM US F1


    In view of this new agreement and with the prospect of a stable future for Formula One, FIA President Max Mosley has confirmed his decision not to stand for re-election in October this year.


  48. And there you go. Both sides postured, Max blinked first. A very good day for the sport. Now if only they can push Bernie out and ensure that rules will from now on be settled by people who have truly competitive racing as a primary objective, we might just end up with some fun races in the future.

  49. Wonder what the get out clauses and conditions in that 2012 commitment are..

    1. LOL!! I can imagine one…

      Get out clause number 724 – If Max disnae stan’ doon, we’re ootta here!

      1. HounslowBusGarage
        24th June 2009, 16:05

        Didn’t know Luca was Scottish, though.

        1. Aye, on ‘is mithers side! :-)

    1. & from Ferrari:

      World Council accepts FOTA’s proposals

      Maranello, 24th June 2009 – Today the FIA World Council accepted the proposals formulated by FOTA for the 2010 Formula 1 Championship. A Championship, which will held, as required by FOTA, in the spirit of sport and technological competition, with clear and certain rules and a transparent governance, handed over to the F1 Commission. The objective is to avoid continuous changes decided by one person alone and to gradually reduce costs, to get back to early 90s spending levels within the next two years. The FOTA teams constantly promoted these objectives in the interest of motorsport and all its protagonists, starting with the fans.

  50. Scott Joslin
    24th June 2009, 15:38

    Hurrah! Peace at last…..well until the next argument.

    We can get back to the racing now…..phewww.

  51. Ecclestone very happy he’ll continue to rake in millions, now there’s a surprise!

  52. Pedro Andrade
    24th June 2009, 15:46

    Not yet sure what to make of this. While it’s obviously great F1 (the FIA type) has been saved, there are still many things to consider:

    – As Brian said, it feels like were getting rid of Vader and not the Emperor. Bernie is a huge problem in many respects, just as power hungry and unpredictable and autoritarian as Mosley.
    – Lola and Prodrive were seriously wrong done in this whole mess. They deserved to be on the grid next year, but weren’t because of the politics.
    – Bye-bye Silverstone. Bye-bye Hockenheim. Bye-Bye Montreal. Bye-bye Portimão. Welcome back Valencia, South Korea, India and Abu Dhabi.

    1. – Lola and Prodrive were seriously wrong done in this whole mess. They deserved to be on the grid next year, but weren’t because of the politics.
      – Bye-bye Silverstone. Bye-bye Hockenheim. Bye-Bye Montreal. Bye-bye Portimão. Welcome back Valencia, South Korea, India and Abu Dhabi.

      sadly that’s how i see it too. Lola would have been the perfect addition, a manufacturer whose business is racing, first and foremost; Similarly for Prodrive (Aston Martin if i remember correctly). Campos and Manor are small outfits, and i believe that they were chosen for their willingness to abide by the £40m cap no questions asked. Its a shame as Lola repeatedly mentioned that their F1 programme was in the advanced stages, and i really believe that in these days where small and large teams are given a fairly level pleying field, Lola would have been excellent, and i would have been their biggest fan. Looks like i’ll have to stay up to date in the LMP world for another couple of years.

      Losing Silverstone, at least temporarily, is a HUGE shame, as the attendance figures last weekend prove the facility has plenty of life in it yet. The discussions on here regarding which tracks the breakaway series would host was really interesting to see that given the choice, most of us would prefer to see some good old tracks revived than continue on the Tilkedrome madness of late. More Spa, more Silverstone, more Monza and bring back some US races, long beach anyone? that would be awesome.

      1. I agree with pretty much everything you have there. With Prodrive, perhaps there was some bad blood from the past entry attempt, but Lola was coming in on a fresh slate with a good program apparently. Still, no doubt they’ll try again in the next few seasons.

        Three cheers for another U.S. race- if it did go back to Long Beach it would be a great deal, but with IndyCar so strong there I don’t know if two seperate events would work.

  53. Lola and Prodrive were seriously wrong done in this whole mess.

    Couldn’t agree more… when I saw the new teams accepted I was very disappointed to see that Dave Richards won’t be on the grid next year.

    bring back some US races

    Now that the teams/manufacturers have a say I don’t think it will be long before we’re back in North America, but probably not through any agreement with Tony George.

  54. Goog news I think, although it means that bizarly lola and prodrive won’t be copeting next year, and we can’t look forward to a generally better calender. Still, I’m glad the idiot got pushed out and F1 has been saved.

  55. So the BreakAway thread *was* a political poker trick after all (a successful one). And I almost started believing in FOTA and its determination to start from scratch with a better series where many of the bizarre excesses that got entrenched in F1 may have been corrected.

    This was a perfect chance to bring sanity back into the pinnacle of motorsport. Alas, it FAILED.

    Back to Bernie Inc. and his “show”, his “empire” and his “money-cow” he can milk now for another 3 years for sure and probably beyond.

    Since the FIA gets great income from Bernie, they’ll put someone into Max’s shoes who won’t rock the cradle too hard either.

    Very, very disappointed! As otheres here, I am also sorry for the top prospective teams (Lola, Prodrive etc) that got a “not-good-enough-for-the-world-elite” thrown into their face. Would have been perfect for them to join the breakaway series.

    What a missed opportunity.

    (sorry for my lamenting here – just needed to vent!)

    1. Accidentalmick
      24th June 2009, 20:05

      @ just me

      No it is not just you. I agree with everything you write but would go further. Mosely has only ever been in the FIA to be Ecclestone’s mouthpiece. Ecclestone got him the job in the first place. When Ecclestone realised that, this time, FOTA were not kidding and that he (BC) was going to lose a lot of money, he paniced and told Mosely he would have to go.
      Now the extraction of vast amounts of money from the sport to service CVC’s debt is going to carry on to the detriment of the sport.

      1. Sure, Accidentalmick, your puppet/puppeteer view of the FIA/FOM relationship is highly plausible.

        As Bernie said: I won’t let the breakaway happen (translation: I won’t let the ringing of my personal and my buddies’ cash registers be silenced).
        And 3 days later – wadabum – Luca di Montezemolo has nothing but praise for Max!

        What a strange world we live in:
        Money talks ….
        Reason silenced …

        (politics as usual)

  56. So, what have we learned from this mess?

    a) F1 CANT survive without Ferrari and McLaren
    b) Max manages to speak as though he is victorious, even though he lost. True politician.
    c) This was never about getting new teams, and if it was, we would have Lola and Prodrive on the grid. All of the prospective new teams were just used as Max’s bargaining chips
    d) Budget do not belong in F1. If the FIA had just left it alone then we wouldnt have had this damaging crisis.

  57. F1 might not be able to survive without Ferrari, but it certainly will without Mosley.

    Max’s biggest mistake? To think he could take Ferrari’s heritage on and win.

  58. Well i don’t really know what to say about this latest news.
    I feel quite dejected really…can we trust mosley to really step down? maybe he has no choice now. But, like most people on here Max was not the only problem affecting F1. Ecclestone is still there to carry on messing things up. Our favourite tracks are still off the calendar, i doubt they’ll be back any time soon. Are the FOTA teams going to get the money owed them and a fairer sharer of the profits? are ticket sale prices going to come down to an affordable rate? Are the Circuits going to be charged less for hosting races?
    I highly doubt any of this while Bernie is around.
    I have a sick feeling in my stomach. I was looking forward to a breakaway maybe getting F1 back to the way it used be, but better. Now it seems we may have more of a status quo but without Max Mosley. But we still have him till the end of his term. They should have made him resign immediately.
    LIke others on here i feel the decision to have the likes of campos and manor in F1 instead of Prodrive and such is a bad thing. Maybe in time with help from the other teams they can compete on a more level field. I have a feeling though that the back of the grid is going to include at least 2 out of the 3 new entrants.
    However i know GMAN will be happy about USF1.
    I think we now need a statement from FOTA outlining everything that has happened and what will happen so we are clear about the future of the sport.

    Lastly…. I am just not sure this is really good news or not. I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

  59. Another thing i just thought of.

    FOTA had been saying that nothing could happen at the WMSC meeting to change their minds and they would forge ahead with breakaway plans.
    Does this mean the breakway was ******** from the get go? If so i am disappointed. I, like a lot of other people had resigned myself to the end of F1 and a new chapter was beginning. I hope that things do now improve in F1 and we can settle down to watch the racing.

  60. The fascist regime had to end at some point in time. now that it has, we can really look ahead into the future with great hope. this is the best thing that could have happened to formula one. i know for a fact that max mosley is leaving halfheartedly. but things can change, you never know until the next new president is elected. hope max keeps up his word, i strongly suspect he’ll not.

  61. quote from the bbc article

    “it is not the first time Mosley has promised to stand down as FIA president – in June 2004, he announced he would stand down from his position in October of that year, only to rescind his decision a month later and secure re-election.”

    so you never know.

  62. i think we ought to wait until its really “OFFICIAL”, that mosley will not be contesting the election. who knows, max might threaten his opponents or even bribe them to not contest the election & again get re-elected. He’s after all done that in the past, so there is no reason why he’ll not do it again. i hope he sticks to his word & steps down with whatever little remaining dignity he’s got. If there’s one person i’ll not trust, it’ll have to be MAX OSWALD MOSLEY.

  63. I agree with Kovy’s first comment.

    Now that FOTA is staying with FIA until 2012 where does that leave us?
    1) FOTA gets to implement their version of “glide-path” cost reduction, and Max has to leave after the current term in office.
    2) Both Max and Bernie get to claim they are the smartest guys in the room for saving the F1 series from splitting apart.
    And…..what do the fans get?
    1) Well…..apparently we do not get the exciting sounding race schedule posted by FOTA only a couple days ago.
    2) Being an American in North America, apparently we get no GP in the forseeable future.

    While I can hope for the best, it sems like everybody gets a little something except the FANS!!
    Well, Well, business as usual says Bernie, nothing to see here, keep moving please.
    Hope I’m wrong.

  64. mythrenegade
    24th June 2009, 19:01

    As a former fan of open wheel racing in america, trust me on this: Nobody wins when a series splits.

    Had max somehow managed to get enough cars to fill the grid, they could prop the corpse up for years (ala IRL and its dismal attendance) long enough to destroy the FOTA series due to confusion. The end result? In America there is one series again (IndyCar) that draws a tiny fraction of the interest it did fifteen years ago. In the mid nineties, Indy racing was larger than nascar. Now? Fishing shows outdraw their races.


    1. Disagree:

      Indy was a split down the “middle” (some teams here, some there) and was competing with local audience and little TV revenue. What was more the deciding factor, the new series were just not spectacular and the thereby lost the fans.

      The F1-breakaway would have been an exodus – all in the new series and NOBODY in F1 (besides Williams and the Force for the time they are bound by contract).

      VERY different situation! Outcome unpredictable.
      Why not watch a FOTA-F1 and FIA-F1 race on alternating weekends and get twice your F1-fix. Have the SERIES compete with each other. The better wins the heart of the audience, the TV rights, the sponsors etc.
      The better SPECTACLE wins!
      The fans (that is YOU and me) win!

      (All this has been discussed on other threads before – sorry for repetitions, but some folks may not have followed those arguments).

  65. theRoswellite
    24th June 2009, 19:10


    MAX IS OUT !


    IF………IF all of this holds, then we have taken a huge step toward an equitable and rational championship.

    Don’t expect to kill this Two-Headed Monster all in one blow, it has existed for too long to simply limp off stage, even from a body blow as lethal as today’s.

    Hopefully FOTA, and a “new” FIA, can work toward the termination of BE’s commercial stranglehold on our beloved sport.

    Say goodnight Max… head down, one to go.

    1. hmmmm….angry!

    2. The puppeteer is still in full charge. Just his beloved lead puppet gets exchanged for a newer model.

      Sorry, no head of relevance is down! All stays the same – till death does us part ….

      PS: Max gave us at least an entertaining show between the race weekends and seasons. The long winter months can get sooo boring – what are we going to do without him??? No controversies, no juicy scandals – we are looking into an abyss of boredom!!

  66. FOTA will meet the media tomorrow to outline its` proposals in detail.

  67. For anyone interested,the level of costs for a top F1 team in the early 90s was…….yes,you guessed it! Around £40,000,000

  68. Accidentalmick
    25th June 2009, 9:05

    Just a final thought, as the saying goes “Follow the money”.

    CVC have enormous debts to service because of the ludicrous amount they paid Ecclestone for the marketing rights of F1.

    The teams were asking for a bigger share of the income from TV. CVC (who BC works for) cannot do this because they need that money. The answer, make the teams spend less.

    Thus, it seems to me, the budget cap was never about making it easier for new teams to join but more about avoiding giving the existing teams a fair share of the income.

    I am sorry that there will be no breakaway.

  69. Let me make one thing clear: I have nothing whatsoever against Asia. I just think that in order to be “awarded” a GP a country should fullfil one of the two criteria (preferably both): i) Get a good driver in F1, create a sustainable fan base, get a GP or ii) build an awesome track. The problem with the Asian GPs currently in F1 is that they don’t have either. Great facilities, rubish tracks and no fans (no drivers to root for) — I know the tracks have been designed by an European, but this is beside the point. All the while, people in other countries who do watch F1 have to wake up at 4:00am on Sunday’s for half of the season.

  70. HounslowBusGarage
    25th June 2009, 14:42

    why has my comment been removed?
    It was there for a short while and I even think someone replied to it. But now it’s gone. I didn’t insult anyone or use any rude words, honest . . .

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