Max Verstappen criticised the policing of track limits during today’s qualifying session for the Austrian Grand Prix, saying it made drivers look like amateurs.
A total of 47 lap times were deleted because drivers either ran wide during those laps, or because they ran wide at the final corner on the lap immediately beforehand.The FIA changed its approach to the enforcement of track limits at the beginning of last season, requiring drivers to stay within the white lines at all corners instead of varying the rules at different turns. However Verstappen said the nature of the Red Bull Ring makes it especially difficult for drivers to judge whether they’re inside the boundaries.
“It is, I think, one of the worst tracks for it with the track limits,” he said. “Also especially towards the end [of a lap], the tyres are getting really hot so they’re not as agile anymore as well compared to at the beginning of the lap.
The most conspicuous victim of the track limits enforcement was Vertappen’s team mate Sergio Perez, who had all of his times deleted in Q2, and therefore failed to reach Q3.
“I think today looked very silly,” said Verstappen. “It almost looked like we were amateurs out there, the amount of lap times that were getting deleted.”
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He said drivers had raised concerns about how rigidly the track limits rules would be enforced with the FIA before the session. “Some of [the calls] were so marginal, where even we [had] spoken about it in the briefing before that, when it’s very marginal it’s impossible to judge if it’s out or in, and they were still getting deleted. So I don’t think it was a good look today.”
Although Verstappen agrees track limits need to be enforced, he believes changes need to be made at tracks where the kerbing and run-off areas are designed to accommodate bikes as well as F1 cars.
“It is super-tricky and I think today showed that it’s still not easy to have a clear rule about it,” he said. “On most tracks it works really well but on some tracks you might need something different because of course a lot of the tracks we share with Moto GP or whatever, bike championships in general, and of course they want something else outside of the kerbs than what we would like.
“For us putting gravel there is fine, but for a bike it’s a bit different. So we need to think about maybe a different solution.”
He suggested increasing the size of the white line which marks the edge of the track to make it easier for drivers to see it.
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“I think we’ve already tried on a few tracks where we painted a bit of a wider white line, which I thought helped a bit because I think the white line in some places is quite narrow with the high speeds we are achieving in that particular corner. So this is maybe something we can look into.”
While most of the track limits violations occured at the final two corners, Verstappen said the first turn needs an adjustment as well.
“At turn one there’s a yellow sausage [kerb],” he said. “If you hit that already, you slow down, but it still puts you out of the white line and your lap time gets cancelled. So it’s not ideal.”
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2023 Austrian Grand Prix
- Mercedes left scratching heads by lack of performance at Austrian GP
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- Austrian GP track limits farce was avoidable like ‘IndyGate’ and Spa 2021 – Brown
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- Paddock Diary: 2023 Austrian Grand Prix
falken (@falken)
30th June 2023, 18:54
Very silly drivers shouldn’t drive like amateurs unable to keep it on the track.
Paul A (@paul-a)
30th June 2023, 23:40
Maybe equally silly to not say what the “track” really is. Let’s look. In the beginning, let’s say the 1953 Silverstone race. There was road (tarmac, blacktop, concrete) and grass and earth or mud. Monaco 1953: 7 finishers out of 28 starters — walls, etc, defined the track. Guess what? Drivers did their best to stay on the track. No white lines, no stewards judgments. No rules, common sense to win a race.
Fast forward, a few points in maybe random order:
Replace grass/mud with gravel: great if there’s enough runoff room, but (commercially) adding motorcycles to the same track was not appreciated.
Add kerbs (later corrugated kerbs): drivers used them to best advantage, manufacturers strengthened their suspensions adding weight — kerbs became “part of the track” (how many photos have you seen with 2 even 3 wheels off the blacktop?) and nowadays knocking winglets off the bottom of floors.
Add white lines: started as a visual aid for drivers, no problem, probably improved safety. But if the surface outside the white line was not gravel and still suitable for racing? Guess what? Drivers went there and improved lap times. “Street” tracks were a tad more unforgiving (MotoGP at Monaco?).
Now: add FIA, F1 commercial rights holders, stewards, committees, lawyers, rules, regulations, hearings, driver and press releases, electronic measurement, whatever — and subtract the joy of F1 racing “one car, one driver, each trying to go as fast as possible” — and you end up with today’s very sad, disheartening, possibly ludicrous record of “max number of lap-times deleted.”
Big-buck media frenzy; talking-heads spouting every which way where what; nothing to do with safety; a lot do do with downgrading the best of motor racing to the level of wretched wrestling.
HJ
1st July 2023, 7:27
Take a F1 car and show these amateurs how to drive;-)
Coventry Climax
30th June 2023, 18:58
I watched the quali and got angrier with the minute.
Leave it to the Fully Incompetent Amateurs (FIA) to make track limits utterly important, but then neglect to (put cameras in those corners and?) provide the television audience with decent, conclusive footage.
As it stands, this just generates talks and controversy. But maybe that’s exctly what they want, Twitter and Facebook like heated messages, thinking it generates an extra audience.
To me though, this s u c k s. Big time.
Proesterchen (@proesterchen)
30th June 2023, 19:08
The camera positions for the TV feed are decided by Liberty’s TV production team.
fritz
30th June 2023, 20:53
Besides earning 100 miljon dollars more then Ferrari 250 million. You’re saying we should change the rules for Max and Checo! Because Redbull need every help they can get wright?
Coventry Climax
1st July 2023, 0:39
Take your colored glasses off please, then read again.
What I’m saying has nothing to do with any driver whatsoever.
I’m all for track limits, 4 wheels within the white lines preferrably, all corners, all tracks and for each and every driver alike.
But if you’re gonna be strict about it and police it, then make it transparent, conclusive and for all to see, instead of coming up with silly slowmo’s that don’t actually prove a thing. Cause that is what I call amateuristic and controversy seeking.
harold wilson
1st July 2023, 1:09
I’m sorry but are you saying drivers times were incorrectly removed for having all 4 wheels outside the white lines that is the track? Maybe I am missing something here.
Proesterchen (@proesterchen)
1st July 2023, 8:23
The FIA don’t control the TV camera positioning and feed.
If that’s your issue, you need to take it up with Liberty’s TV production crew.
Coventry Climax
2nd July 2023, 1:36
No, Harold Wilson, I’m not. Another pair of colored glasses apparently.
@Proesterchen: I don’t think Race Control’s decisions are based on the camera footage provided by LM’s TV production crew, that would be ridiculous.
All I’m saying is, that we should be able to get and see the proof for their decisions.
That’s called transparency and I fail to see how anyone can be against that, unless your name is Putin, Xinping or similar and actively trying to spread disinformation and doubt.
Some of the ‘here’s the proof footage’ we were shown, left way to much room for controversy.
Jockey Ewing
30th June 2023, 23:27
I think, if realy accurate GPS-like data is available, then if there is no camera or no good camera angle at a given corner, then a video could be rendered out of the data. For example this could be useful to provide replay-like footage of track limit related incidents, and it could be used in other kind of incidents. I would find this more interesting than Sainz’s ghost car idea, for 1-shot qualifyings.
The good thing about it would be:
If it is a rendered video, the accuracy only depends on the accurecy and polling rate of the GPS data.
The point of view and the viewing angle could be entirely freely selected for the stewards, while the are policing an incident. They could replay it many times, from many POVs. And then after a decision is made, some footage, evidence, or reasoning-like footage could be provided to the TV viewers as well, showing it from a nice angle.
Or even better, since I have seen a team trying to acieve something similar, as this whole thing is quite interesting for me, it could be the future of sports broadcasting, one could watch any sports event from practically any point of view, one could even move and rotate the camera freely, and all of this would be almost real-time rendered on your TV.
Jockey Ewing
30th June 2023, 23:33
More or less I like Verstappen’s idea about the wider white lines.
It would not be much easier to keep it on track, but even the visibility helps a lot for these skilled drivers.
And importantly, it is a simple idea, what could improve the situation and could be done fairly cheaply.
I think the steward decisions could come quicker, but now they were fairly quick, compared to some races.
At Austria it is not uncommon to have a comparable amount of lap times deleted, so I have not had too much feelings about it. I like Portimao as well, similarly enjoyable and challenging track, not the widest, quite fast, and there was many lap times deleted as well, for example at the quite fast and nicely flowing Turn 1 (with a nice safe concrete runoff as well :))
SpaFrancorchamps (@spafrancorchamps)
30th June 2023, 18:59
Djokovic should say this next match.
Kribana (@krichelle)
30th June 2023, 19:03
Verstappen is already well experienced enough if he feels the tyres get hot at the end of a qualifying lap. This rule needs to be enforced at every track. They need more practice with these rules and not just at this track.
Jere (@jerejj)
30th June 2023, 19:10
@krichelle The current all-around-lap track limits rule is indeed enforced on all tracks, but of course, track limits are less of an issue or effectively non-issue on many others.
Proesterchen (@proesterchen)
30th June 2023, 19:05
Even amateur drivers know where the racing surface ends, and how to stay within those limits.
harold wilson
1st July 2023, 1:13
I could not agree more . What all the parlarva is on the issue is beyond me. Keeping all 4 wheels on the black stuff within the white lines seems to be what racing is about. At least I though so, for the best drivers in the world.
SteveP
30th June 2023, 19:07
Maybe the people that did keep inside the lines were driving a little slower so that the turning ability of their car at a given speed matched the curve of the track?
You know, driving a bit more professionally…
MichaelN
30th June 2023, 19:32
Those people, all two of them, were Qualifying Master Leclerc and everyone’s favorite American, Logan Sargeant.
But it’s not that bad.
Only a few drivers had more than two flying laps deleted (not counting the in and out laps).
Those were, in order of occurrence, Norris, Verstappen (and there’s the reason for the complaint), Albon, Pérez and Sainz.
Paul A (@paul-a)
1st July 2023, 1:02
You write “were driving a little slower” … “You know, driving a bit more professionally…” The profession of an F1 driver is (IMNSHO) to drive a little faster. But I’ve only been a fan of F1 for seventy years, so maybe my opinion is past its “sell-by” date?
Jere (@jerejj)
30th June 2023, 19:08
He makes good points & I’d personally volunteer for his offer to try how easy staying within white lines is.
MichaelN
30th June 2023, 19:22
It’s very easy to stay within the lines. Amateurs drive old F1 cars all the time.
It becomes tricky when you want to push the limits. But that’s just what separates the good from the great, that ability to position the car exactly at the edge – not just “somewhere over there within half a meter or so”.
Elgsdyr
30th June 2023, 20:14
I’d also be very happy to test whether I can keep his car inside the lines or not. 😀
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
1st July 2023, 0:40
Yes, if we could not lose the car at all at any point (doubtful) we’d likely be slow enough to keep it within track limits.
MichaelN
30th June 2023, 19:21
If the answer to any sporting issue is an obvious ‘go slower’ then you can count on F1 drivers finding an endless amount of arguments to make it seem like a big deal.
These guys can all race around Monaco. They can handle track limits just fine, they’d just rather not.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
1st July 2023, 0:42
I mean, drivers are actually hitting the wall at street tracks: russell ruined his race in canada, alonso hit the wall and survived the impact this year, didn’t in 2005.
Bojangles
30th June 2023, 19:27
How is it that Hamilton does not get his lap time deleted, when it is so obvious he exceeds the white line? Look at the footage of Q3 with 6.21 min. to go.
I saw other lap time deletions (e.g. Albon) where the infringement seemed much less..
Miguel Bento (@miguelbento)
30th June 2023, 19:48
I saw other drivers exceeding the track limit on that specific corner and nothing happened too, so I guess it was not being enforced there.
SjaakFoo (@sjaakfoo)
30th June 2023, 19:38
People are readily blaming the drivers for not knowing how to keep their cars within the white lines, but really? Really? Are all 20 drivers so incapable they just can’t possible keep their cars within the white lines?
Of course not, this is an argument you could make when one or two drivers got their lap deleted once, not all drivers multiple times. It’s pretty clear the last two turns with cars this wide and heavy are near impossible to drive at speed around those corners without drifting wide. We’re talking about marginal infractions here, literal centimeters over. The answer here is not to blame the drivers for driving their car at speed and going a few centimeters over, but to make sure the final exit onto the straight is made a little wider to account for the current era’s wide and heavy cars.
Proesterchen (@proesterchen)
30th June 2023, 20:03
They have one job.
drmouse (@drmouse)
30th June 2023, 22:48
If they made the circuit a little bit wider, they’d try to take the corner faster, and this still have times being deleted.
The way to stay within track limits is not to take the corner as fast. Obviously, they don’t want to do that, they want to be right on the limit within millimetres because that’s the fastest way to do it.
MichaelN
30th June 2023, 23:30
Everyone got a lap in, and some lost one or two because they took a risk to go quicker. It’s fair enough. They wouldn’t take that risk on other tracks, but it’s worth it here with the super short laptimes. Also – Leclerc, second on the grid, didn’t have a single lap deleted. And it’s not like he was taking it easy. He’s just that good.
Having deleted laps due to track limit violations isn’t the most exciting thing in sports, but it’s better than having those big bumps there like a few years ago, and much better than just letting them floor it across the tarmac run-off. There’s no skill in that. Some of the American domestic series that raced at COTA are a good example of that. At some point it just become silly to see them ignore the track.
drmouse (@drmouse)
1st July 2023, 9:16
Agreed.
The only thing which I didn’t like was how long it was taking to delete the times, but then again that’s because everyone was doing it all the time.
I’d be in favour of more sensors, with the time automatically deleted on a violation (anywhere on track, not just at a few chosen exits).
MichaelN
1st July 2023, 9:26
Didn’t they trial something like that at the Hungaroring a few years ago? It does seem a bit dated to have to use visuals, which then take a bit if time to review.
drmouse (@drmouse)
1st July 2023, 13:38
I believe they do have sensors on important areas to flag infringements, but every incident most be individually checked by the stewards.
Elgsdyr
30th June 2023, 20:16
“It’s difficult to follow the rules so there shouldn’t be any rules.” – Verstappen (essentially)
Sham (@sham)
30th June 2023, 20:17
Best drivers in the world should be able to lift the pedal a fraction and stay within the lines.
The only way to police track limits is absolutely. It’s the only way to be consistent and fair.
Don’t like it, that’s fine – but tough. Stay within the lines and keep your lap time.
Neil (@neilosjames)
30th June 2023, 20:56
I don’t like the way the track limits are enforced at this particular track (it’s ‘correct’, but also feels petty), but rather than stop enforcing them, maybe the run-off beyond the main kerb could be changed to something other than a nice, big extra kerb.
I think I share this every Austrian GP, but I’ll share it again
https://youtu.be/FEOszom0GKQ?t=675
It doesn’t have to be as brutal as it used to be, but you don’t see 47 lap times deleted when there’s a bit of grass at the other side of the kerb.
ECWDanSelby (@ecwdanselby)
30th June 2023, 23:20
Yup – natural policing is the way forward. Asphalt straight ahead, gravel/grass beyond mid-exit of corner. Very, very simple.
drmouse (@drmouse)
1st July 2023, 9:26
The problem is that these tracks aren’t only for F1. They wouldn’t survive if they opened for the F1 weekend, then closed for the rest of the year. Therefore they have to be suitable for other forms of Motorsport, which includes bikes, and the setup you propose would be dangerous for them.
For me, I’d go electronic. Sensors on the kerb, them an automated, direct, instant penalty of you go over. Something which reduced power output as soon as they leave the track and not giving it back until 5s after they rejoin, maybe by forcing the waste gate open to disable the turbo, or just reducing the fuel flow limit…
Pjotr (@pietkoster)
30th June 2023, 21:39
I saw a challenge for the keyboard warriors from Verstappen. Take my car and try to match my time within the track limits.
Bullfrog (@bullfrog)
30th June 2023, 22:47
Bring back the banked last corner from the Österreichring, with a barrier round the outside. Not a thick white line, then a kerb, then another feckin kerb, then some fluffy blue velvet, then a red carpet for the little VIPs.
ECWDanSelby (@ecwdanselby)
30th June 2023, 23:19
I must admit, I did find the enormous additional blue asphalt verge very jarring.
ECWDanSelby (@ecwdanselby)
30th June 2023, 23:18
Having asphalt verges/run-off is a perfect recipe to make everyone look silly, so I tend to agree. Weirdly, you didn’t have this issue on any of the corners which had an asphalt 2-3m verge, shortly followed by gravel. Strange, that!
Mayrton
1st July 2023, 8:37
Track, white lines, gravel. Problem solved. I aware there are safety advantages sometimes as weel in having a run off area. But lets not forget this all started to keep more cars in the race to be more attractive as sports to watch. A fundamentally wrong turn towards circusification.