Fernando Alonso says Max Verstappen’s achievements this year deserve respect because he is achieving his potential more regularly than his Formula 1 rivals are.
Verstappen scored his 11th win of the season so far, and ninth in a row, in yesterday’s Dutch Grand Prix. Red Bull has dominated the championship so far and Alonso believes “it is underestimated sometimes what Max is achieving” as a result.“To win in such a dominant matter in any of the professional sports, it is so complicated,” said the two times champion, who finished second to Verstappen on Sunday.
“Days like today, I felt that I was at my best and have been giving 100% of what I felt and my abilities on a racing car,” said Alonso after the race. “But maybe in Spa I was not at that level or in Austria or something like that. So you always feel that there is room to improve and you are not 100% happy with yourself, as I am today.
“I think Max is achieving that 100% more often than us at the moment, than any of the drivers, so that’s why he’s dominating.“
Red Bull team principal Christian Horner said Verstappen’s latest victory at Zandvoort was especially impressive given the extra attention on him at his home race.
“I think the most impressive thing for me this weekend is just, you have seen all the pressure that Max is under an expectation of 100,000 Dutchies here, and a lot would have cracked under that pressure today. And he kept his composure and delivered as he’s done so many times.“
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Horner said there were two points during the race weekend “that really stood out for me” as examples of what a high level Verstappen is performing at.
“There was the first lap in Q1 where he went off at turn one and then he got blocked on the next lap, there’s a black cloud coming, there’s a lot of drivers would have buckled under the pressure and he didn’t.
“Then again, having emerged from the pits behind a lot of cars and having to come through the [field] the way he did, there’s a lot of drivers that would have buckled under that pressure. And he kept his head and he was phenomenal.”
Verstappen has only failed to win two of the races so far this year. Horner said he’s been performing consistently strongly since the season began.
“If you look to the previous races, I think in Bahrain, in the first race, he was already in a commanding position. He then had a driveshaft failure in Saudi in qualifying. His recovery through the field was impressive there. So he’s been in incredible form for about the last three years now.“
“With his ninth consecutive win, Verstappen has equalled the all-time record held by former Red Bull driver Sebastian Vettel, as well as Alberto Ascari, who did the same in the 1950s.
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“To have achieved nine victories with Sebastian was very special,” said Horner. “Something I never thought we would end up repeating.
“So to be sitting here with Max having replicated what Sebastian did 10 years ago, is very special. Very special for him, very special for the whole team.”
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2023 Dutch Grand Prix
- Azerbaijan GP defeat was key to record-equalling run of wins – Verstappen
- “Too early to say” if podium signals return to form for Aston Martin – Alonso
- Verstappen makes history with unbeaten hat-track in first home races
- Perez is ‘doing his job and will be our driver in 2024’, Horner insists
- Ferrari had the “sixth or seventh fastest car” at Zandvoort – Sainz
Armchair Expert (@armchairexpert)
28th August 2023, 11:01
The Inconvenient Truth. Max is the best driver in F1 history and can only be beaten in cars on equal level by AI-enhanced rival, which probably won’t happen during the next 15 years before the end of his career.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
28th August 2023, 11:56
@armchairexpert Red Bull has always been a fast car – Gasly, Albon, and Perez had trouble reaching Q3 and fighting for a podium with that car which is strange as there is no doubt the Red Bull was the fastest car any of those drivers would ever get to drive in their careers.
It makes it hard to say if Max is the fastest driver ever – he’s the fastest driver ever in a Red Bull car is probably more accurate but that comes with several asterisks.
Nikos (@exeviolthor)
28th August 2023, 12:52
Correct! People forget that the Driver’s Championship is not won by the fastest driver, but by the fastest driver car combination.
Hamilton’s career is also a very good example of this. He did not become a better driver suddenly in 2014. He rather was a great driver who finaly was given a championship winning car.
Matthijs (@matthijs)
28th August 2023, 13:00
@exeviolthor I don’t think that people forget that it is a combination of car and driver, certainly not on this website.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
28th August 2023, 21:25
The last line is incorrect: he was given a championship winning car immediately, when he started f1 in 2007, and he kept having it in 2008 and still had a championship contending car in some of the vettel era years, he was given a DOMINANT car in 2014.
melanos
28th August 2023, 13:34
Yesterday Fred was every bit as good as Max, even better because his job was a lot harder. Not taking anything from Max who was superb
James Bond (@jamesbond)
28th August 2023, 14:55
Max was under more pressure than Alonso so I think Max was the better of the two in Zandvoort. But Fernando was superb too.
Nick T,
30th August 2023, 23:50
Agreed.
A M (@amam)
28th August 2023, 11:10
He’s also allowed to push other drivers off track with impunity. I can not believe the way Max forced Gasly off track wasn’t even noted by the stewards!
Moi
28th August 2023, 11:33
He did not force him off the track; the track ends in a wall in that corner. What he did do was force him wide, on the painted surface band, which causes a little understeer meaning you cannot turn in as quickly. Nothing to investigate.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
28th August 2023, 11:43
@amam Yeah, I was surprised that it wasn’t noted – complete push off the track.
Moshambles (@moshambles)
28th August 2023, 11:57
This rule is very inconsistently applied. Don’t think it has anything to do with Max particularly
A M (@amam)
28th August 2023, 12:10
I think the stewards are very lenient when it comes to Max. He does this quite often, such as with Mick Schumacher a couple of times in 2022
slowmo (@slowmo)
28th August 2023, 12:12
The rule for pushing people off never applies to Leclerc either, both him and Verstappen have got free passes for it.
Matthijs (@matthijs)
28th August 2023, 13:03
@slowmo It seems that when a frontrunner overtakes a midfielder, the stewards tend to be more lenient than when drivers of comparable speed tangle. I am not saying it is fair, but the frontrunners seem to get away with more things than drivers further down the field, up to a point when they clash with a fellow frontrunner. Sometimes it seems that the stewards do not really bother, since the overtake was inevitable to begin with (Verstappen on Gasly as an example).
RH
28th August 2023, 13:03
You seem to make this point on every article.
Gasly called it racing, and didn’t complain. Maybe you are looking to find something that isn’t there?
MichaelN
28th August 2023, 14:30
It’s not Gasly’s call. And he is a particularly poor judge given he was only spared a race ban for his frequent antics because the stewards “suddenly” stopped giving him penalty points. Even for his Australia restart crash.
Drivers never want the stewards to get involved unless it directly benefits them.
RH
28th August 2023, 15:41
It certainly didn’t benefit Gasly now did it? He did lose a position.
In the end, the drivers are fine with what happened regardless of what the above poster perceives, so I don’t think there’s any more to that incident than is being made. Someone should sit and rewatch that specific turn to see if there was similar incidents that got penalized or if this was the standard for the weekend or whatever.
I personally found it aggressive and would have found it to be a penalty worthy incident had Verstappen collided with Gasly. But the move was clean, although very aggressive, and he was fully alongside Gasly from the onboards. Maybe if you are on the inside and fully alongside, the stewards give the corner to the inside guy and they can force drivers outside? I did see Verstappen do this at Silverstone last year, or while racing Sainz at Spain this year. It is probably how the stewards allow racing?
slowmo (@slowmo)
28th August 2023, 23:04
Would Verstappen have thought it fair if it was done to him, the answer is a resounding no.
RH
29th August 2023, 2:29
To @slowmo, your opinion doesn’t make it Verstappen’s opinion. He didn’t complain when George raced him at Spain last year by pushing him off the track. So, speak for yourself, and not others or how you perceive they’ll react. And also, let’s stick to available evidence, and not hypotheticals based on preconceived beliefs.
slowmo (@slowmo)
29th August 2023, 8:45
There is plenty of evidence of him complaining about any marginal decision that goes against him, that’s not hypothetical or pre-conceived. For a man that famously deliberately crashed into an opponent for not “giving him enough space”, he seems to drive a lot of his opponents off the track with no space.
F1 frog (@f1frog)
28th August 2023, 11:54
I agree with this. I think Max Verstappen is perhaps the most consistent driver in Formula 1 history. I wouldn’t rate him as the greatest ever because I don’t think he has nearly as many really special performances in his career as other greats like Lewis Hamilton, but while all the other greats have off-days, Verstappen never does and is always the best. I wish he had more competition so that he could show that he could put in those special performances as well.
But I still don’t think he will ever surpass Jim Clark as the greatest of all time, at least in my mind.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
28th August 2023, 12:03
@f1-frog I’ll qualify that with Max is the most consistent as long as there is no competition on the track or on the team. He seems to disintegrate more than any other driver I’ve witnessed when there’s any competition.
SteveP
28th August 2023, 12:14
Which is why the likes of Alonso, Hamilton, Norris or Piastri would never be allowed anywhere near the other seat in current circumstances.
FA and LH fans can wish away, but RBR aren’t going to burst that bubble.
If Max looks like he’s fading, or losing interest, then Piastri is a good bet for being pursued by RBR, which would either perk up MV or generate a sudden exit.
MattDS (@mattds)
28th August 2023, 14:04
@freelittlebirds you have tried to push this point before in the past, but it’s simply not true. He had competition in 2021 and “disintegrate” is probably the furthest off the truth you can describe his performances in that season.
He pretty much maximized the points on offer for him that season, unlike his title rival who had off days and even weekends (Monaco the most notable one) and made high profile errors too (Baku being the biggest one in terms of points lost).
Max takes risks when he isn’t a title contender anyway, and he put everything on the line when the Mercedes became dominant in 2021. But that’s not what “disintegrating” means.
Yellow Baron
28th August 2023, 14:37
I guess you didn’t watch the last 4 races. He’s been on great form these new regs but hasn’t had any competition. Would be better for his legacy to actually have to fight for the wins
RH
28th August 2023, 15:45
Yes, the only “stain” of Verstappen’s 2021 season where he was fighting with unraceable Mercs and still had on track battles with LH when the latter’s car was upto half a second a lap faster at some instances.
When Verstappen had a 3 tenth margin, he dropped a grand slam at Austria, while Hamilton was fighting DRS chicken and egg with Verstappen with a 3 tenth margin at Jeddah.
Incredible really how all people remember is 4 races of Mercs being as dominant as late 2022 RB18, and how that defines the entire season.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
28th August 2023, 18:53
@Mattds It’s hard to watch 2021 and not believe that Max deserved a full disqualification so there’s nothing to argue about.
sethje (@seth-space)
28th August 2023, 21:12
for you, thats very obvious…\s
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
28th August 2023, 21:31
There’s nothing verstappen did wrong in 2021, hamilton’s silverstone move was worse than anything verstappen did, even monza.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
28th August 2023, 22:02
@esploratore1 you keep talking about Silverstone but all Verstappen had to do was lift-off and he realized it too late and made a move too late to avoid the collision (it’s clear onboard) and that’s without the double move penalty prior to the corner. He had not cleared Hamilton, he simply assumed that he had. Hamilton gave him 9,000 miles (could have been 10,000 miles) of space on track. There was no requirement for Hamilton to back down or surrender the track to the other car.
As for Monza, that was insane… and that’s why the disqualification was important and should have happened at Silverstone because then Max wouldn’t have been able to do that if he wasn’t racing…
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
28th August 2023, 22:05
@seth-space it’s hard for anyone who appreciates racing…
Mayrton
29th August 2023, 8:03
Silverstone ’21 was clear cut. Don’t know why some persist in trying to say Max should have backed out. There is plenty of footage and pictures of Lewis in that corner with Max and Lewis in exact that same corner and situation with Charles. It is absolutely blatantly clear Lewis was way wide when competing with Max vs when competing with Charles. Charles was even more on the inside than Max was.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
29th August 2023, 13:02
Actually, there’s no need for Lewis to be on the inside and nearly touch the grass – if that is the case, then Verstappen needs to be punished for all his defenses in F1 as he’s not even on track and pushes cars off track diagonally… I’m not sure what the penalty would be in that case…
Hamilton held his line that he was fully entitled to and gave Verstappen enough tarmac to park a bus diagonally the way Max likes – it was Verstappen who thought that Hamilton had given the position up just like he had in the past and you can see when he sees Hamilton’s car out of the corner of his eye, he moves the wheel to the left but it’s too late, he’s already cornering as if no one’s there.
It’s just the worst rookie mistake we’ve seen in a decade and one he could have lost his life over. As Lewis has said, he did absolutely nothing wrong there and he usually owns up to his mistakes, unlike Max. At worst, it’s 50/50 but that’s not taking into account Max’s behavior heading into the corner and his shock seeing Lewis there.
With Charles, Lewis chose a different line and a lot of it had to do with the trajectory to the corner which Max dictated moving twice – if I recall correctly, Charles was not able to hold the car coming out of the corner either.
Mayrton
30th August 2023, 8:27
Charles did indeed not hold the corner out of precaution since he feared Hamilton would also understeer into him as it is Hamiltons signature move when being overtaken around the outside. We all know what really happened there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCCGT0CQ4MM
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
28th August 2023, 21:28
He was on it all the time in 2021, what competition do you want more than that?
A M (@amam)
28th August 2023, 12:07
Max has off days. Baku this year was subpar from him. I’d also say Singapore 2022 was subpar from him–failed to nailed his first Q3 run and had a very scrappy, error strewn race. Iirc, he he made contact when fighting with Lando and had to use the escape road
Nikos (@exeviolthor)
28th August 2023, 12:56
True, but I am pretty sure that Alonso was referring to this year in particular.
Armchair Expert (@armchairexpert)
28th August 2023, 13:15
Max’s days off – P2, P7.
Leclerc’s days off – DNF (Australia 23), DNF (Netherlands 23), DNF (France 22), P6 (Imola 22)
Hamilton’s days off – DNF (Belgium 22), P13 (Imola 22), P10 (Saudi Arabia 22), P15 (Baku 21), P7 (Monaco 21)
Don’t you think there’s a MASSIVE difference between Max’s results on bad days compared to his rivals?
Illusive (@illusive)
29th August 2023, 7:21
Singapore was team error under fueling him.
Jimmy Cliff
28th August 2023, 12:11
From lap 24 to lap 44, Max drove 21 laps averaging 1:15,401 (slowest 1:15.783 and fastest 1:15.071).
That is 21 laps with changing tire life and fuel load yet all within 0.5% of the average – less than 1% between fastest and slowest.
In terms of talent, pure race pace and race craft he is top tier same as Alonso, Lewis, etc.
Where he indeed stands out is consistency of performance – very few unforced errors in last 3 years. Often immediately quick in practices, changing conditions or new tracks and as described above relentless fast lap after lap after lap after lap.
Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
28th August 2023, 14:57
I think F1 can be fickle, so let’s see what the next few years bring as Max has an unbelievably well balanced and dominant car. We’ve all known he was special all along but he seemed very human before last year.
I think where Max may go down as the greatest of all time is because he not only has the natural talent but also the application and is the first of a new generation that can practice and refine at home on the sims. We’ve never had that before and it allows a dedicated driver to put unparamounted hours into their profession, more along the lines of golf, darts, snooker, football etc. No matter how dedicated the drivers of the past you could never really spend that much time in your life behind the wheel as it’s just not practical, convenient or even safe, particularly high performance vehicles.
As with Schumacher taking professionalism to the next level with his training, this is the next era now and a new breed will follow.
The reason Max may go down as the greatest ever is because he is Senna and Schumacher combined, the first 100% natural ability driver also combined with the 100% application, intelligence and intense determination.
That being said the next big thing is always coming. That’s the circle of life.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
28th August 2023, 21:34
I don’t think verstappen incorporates all senna’s strengths, I don’t think he’s good enough in qualifying compared to senna, leclerc beat him more often than he should have in quali the last couple of years.
RH
29th August 2023, 2:32
Because Leclerc and Verstappen drive the same car, with the same strengths and weaknesses?
I don’t know how people judge anyone’s qualifying ability outside teammates. Verstappen is a top qualifier as he outqualified a then very fast Ricciardo 3 to 1 on average.
Leclerc is also a very fast qualifier given his record against a then not too terrible Vettel.
Against Sainz this year Leclerc looks very average. Maybe there’s something going on there.
Mayrton
29th August 2023, 8:07
Whilst I agree, it might also have to do with the way current cars are (set up). Max tends to focus on getting a good car on Sunday (whereas Ferrari somehow always go for a fast Saturday car) and will sacrifice his Saturday speed for it. But overall it is clear Max strength is his consistent pace on Sunday. That is where he ‘destroys’ the competition. Sure they can be fast and have focus over a single lap, but 70 or more laps being consistent is only done by a few greats.
melanos
28th August 2023, 17:25
F1 now is wildly different from the 60 so I am not sure that the comparison between Jim Clark and Max is even meaningful. And Max’s consistence is overwhelming lately but in his first few years Max was not as consistent, he had absolutely stonking drives (Interlagos 2016 was the best since Fred’s Hungaroring 2006) but sometimes he got too hot under the collar and ruined a few races.
I have came to rely a lot in math models like f1metrics (and again I am aware of their limitations) but unfortunately there are no new data since 2019 when Max had not yet matured. He made 9th just below Seb which nowadays seems ridiculous. I’d really like to lnow how does Max score now in an updated f1metrics.
RH
28th August 2023, 18:19
F1 metrics rates Perez higher than Rosberg. It will easily put Verstappen 2019-2021 the greatest ever driver period as it is based on teammate dominance. 2022 would the weakest Verstappen year since 2019 in that model.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
28th August 2023, 21:41
That is not certain because verstappen wasn’t perez’s team mate in 2019 and 2020: if you have a weaker team mate, destroying him gives less credit, but definitely he must be very well ranked now, don’t think worse than top 5 ever, I would be very curious to see an update.
He was also ranked best driver in 2019, showing it’s not unrealistic he’d end up ahead of hamilton.
RH
29th August 2023, 2:36
Yeah and that was when his teammates didn’t have a baseline ranking at all.
The overall reality is very few have had such domination over their teammates, and F1metrics fundamentally being a teammate based rating will overinflate Max’s domination imo.
Another note, People will easily say that the other guy is trash but the same Gasly got a podium and Albon is not rated a top 6 driver. Maybe people will finally come around Verstappen making good drivers look bad and maybe even very good drivers will look average next to him. Perez is a known quantity and looks like he should be out of F1.
melanos
29th August 2023, 13:22
It is not just teammate dominance, it is much harder to predict than that. Of course if you own a teammate who previously has owned other drivers considered as high-ranking it boosts your score, but smashing a weak teammate will do next to nothing. With models, there is a “butterfly effect”, in f1metrics you remove Stirling Moss and suddenly Prost’s and Senna’s (who raced decades after Moss) scores do shoot up. Don’t ask me why (it was a big surprise for the author of the model).
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
28th August 2023, 12:00
Alonso is gunning for the Red Bull seat. I love the guy because no other driver would want to touch that seat but Alonso has the self-confidence that you only see a few times in your life.
I’d love to see him next to Max – I think the car would be tough to drive but I think Alonso is the most adaptable driver on the grid and I think Red Bull deserves to have him race for them.
Matthijs (@matthijs)
28th August 2023, 13:06
@freelittlebirds It would be amazing to have Alonso in the Red Bull.
James Bond (@jamesbond)
28th August 2023, 15:01
Yeah that would be epic. Even better than the Senna & Prost combo I think.
Mayrton
29th August 2023, 8:08
Would be epic and quite frankly imho the only option RedBull has. No-one but Alonso will want to be Max team mate. Bring it!
slowmo (@slowmo)
28th August 2023, 12:16
When a off day in your car means you still have a car with several tenths in hand over your rivals then it’s easy to seem like you’re hitting your potential as it’s almost impossible to fall below it. Lets put Alonso, Leclerc, Norris or Hamilton in the other Red Bull and see how consistent he is with a second driver who is not half a second lap slower on pace.
I still think Verstappen has done the best job on the grid this year but the difference is if he performs 0.5% off his best he’ll qualify 2nd, if Alonso or Hamilton perform 0.5% off their best, they’ll qualify 8th or below due to the current field spread.
Miane
28th August 2023, 14:08
A good car is a good car. Every dominant car to this day, the 2nd driver finished 2nd most of the time.
sethje (@seth-space)
28th August 2023, 21:15
looking at mercedes you seem to be on track.. even a mediocre driver like Bottas could win/pole that car.
Looking at a better driver compared with Bottas.. i.e. Perez you could argue its not the car thats dominant but the driver.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
28th August 2023, 21:47
The thing is verstappen was always consistent, even before having a dominant car, he was beating his team mates almost every single race and quali session, I think there was a period where he wasn’t outqualified for almost 3 years or something like that.
You don’t only have team mates to compare with, but also drivers in the other cars, you see hamilton having off days, you don’t see verstappen having one, for example in 2021.
slowmo (@slowmo)
28th August 2023, 23:07
Verstappen didn’t really outperform Sainz or Ricciardo. Verstappen can have a off day and drive half a second slower and still be in with a chance of winning. No other driver on the grid has that chance. This is arguably the most dominant car in F1 since 1992.
RH
29th August 2023, 2:38
Someone has serious problems dealing with this domination.
You should use this website, see what 2016 2017 and 2018 Verstappen fared against Ricciardo, and get an informed opinion.
Likewise you should also read why he was rated much higher than Sainz in 2015. Maybe will help.
Or it is entirely possible you just choose to ignore all that because Verstappen=Bad in your world view in which case no point is worth discussing.
slowmo (@slowmo)
29th August 2023, 11:43
I agree there is no point in a discussion with you
RH
29th August 2023, 16:03
@slowmo,
It is certainly not worth discussing much with you.
You can’t be objective about many things regarding Verstappen, and yes, you are finding it hard to deal with this domination.
At least it will be fun to see what you say when you keep making predictions about his radio calls from the next time on, without regard to the actual incident on track.
Johns
28th August 2023, 12:51
Funny you should mention that.
I would like to see F1 have a mandatory test day at the end of the season where drivers can drive other manufacturers car. The top 5 teams in WDC, get to be randomly selected on which car the can drive.
This would help even the field because then the teams will have some idea of where they are weak, and where they are strong.
Yellow Baron
28th August 2023, 14:39
In other words, watch Indycar. It’s a shame F1 has failed again to bring close competition, it’s not a sport but an exhibition.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
28th August 2023, 21:51
They only failed at keeping red bull in check, perhaps the budget cap penalty was not sufficient, I was unsure if its effect would be significant or not when I heard what it was; if you take away red bull it’s actually a competitive season, with 4 cars alternating to be best race by race.
Adam (@rocketpanda)
28th August 2023, 13:00
I dunno how people can dispute Verstappen being among the sport’s greats really. The minute he was promoted by Red Bull into Kvyat’s seat at such a young age and won on his debut in an unfamiliar car pretty much suggested we were looking at a serious talent. I think that was demonstrated further in Brazil 2016, in the wet – during Mercedes’s significant dominance. He drove that race like he was in a different category in a considerably weaker machine. Back then I thought if he gets his hands on a dominant car he’ll be unstoppable, and here we are.
Prodigiuous talents in this sport, like Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel and now Verstappen really demonstrate pretty early on they’re something special and if they’re given the machine to dominate they’ll deliver.
Matthijs (@matthijs)
28th August 2023, 13:07
@rocketpanda I think the most pundits already regard Verstappen among the sport’s greats.
melanos
28th August 2023, 13:39
.
That’s an easy one, Adam. The 44 brigade is furious with him and watch him through a jaundiced eye. To them he is unworthy and all he has ever done is cheating. But who cares anyway. Every 33j1t is entitled to their opinion
SteveP
28th August 2023, 14:04
I’m not sure I recall an occasion where Max himself cheated. Ignored rules regarding what drivers are allowed to do when competing for position, yes, outright cheat no.
AD 2021 wasn’t Max. He already lost the attempt to match the pace of LH several times. What Massi did was so bad even the FIA had to get rid of him.
2022- well, unless someone can show me evidence that Max actually prepared the accounts he did not cheat.
In both cases, for anyone other than an MV fan, a possibly even among those, the listed WDC should be marked with an asterisk.
Clearly.
sethje (@seth-space)
28th August 2023, 21:21
2021 went fine until the action by Lewis in silverstone.. from that moment on the situation went toxic.
Masi made mistakes but the action on track does not deservesan asterix or whatever. Lewis was beaten fair and square. Mercedes dis not pit him and that caused his demise..
2022.. probably hinting on the 400.000 euro overspending ( after deductiig the tax error that did not deliver usable money) for that money you can repair a car after a light crash. The Bottas bowling action caused a lot more damage!
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
28th August 2023, 23:16
@seth-space
Silverstone is the only place where Lewis didn’t back down and Max simply assumed he had based on previous races. Max should have died there for that colossal mistake.
Watch the onboard and look at Max realize that Lewis hadn’t backed down as he tries to correct and slow down but too late – absurd racing behavior. A complete rookie mistake that should have cost him his life and thankfully Max’s barrage of mistakes didn’t cost Lewis his life although it was very close.
That’s why I remain 100% correct in my original statement that regardless of how talented Verstappen was and is, he wasn’t ready for F1 and he still isn’t. I still believe he will get someone killed someday and my only hope is that he does it to himself.
baasbas
29th August 2023, 15:41
@freelittlebirds
I can’t report this comment since the thread has gone too far. But in my opinion, as a human being saying someone should have died for a mistake* on track is about as low as you can get
*it wasn’t, Hamilton received a penalty for it so the people who know say it wasn’t
But at this point that’s a moot point because a civilized discussion is impossible with someone uttering this kind of bile on the boards. So please, go cry some more, cheer me up.
MichaelN
28th August 2023, 14:42
It takes more than race wins and titles to be among the greats. For as long as I’ve seen F1 races the current champion has been hailed as a great, yet most of them fall off that list quite soon after.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
28th August 2023, 21:52
The win on debut is talking up verstappen: any top driver was expected to fight for the win in a red bull that race given the mercs crashed out.
However verstappen looked fast in toro rosso and even in the previous formula he was racing in, which is what convinced red bull to go for him.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
28th August 2023, 21:53
And brazil 2016 proves his wet weather abilities and that rosberg was not a good wet driver.
RH
28th August 2023, 13:07
Alonso is spot on in his assessment.
Verstappen’s biggest strength in any situation is his consistency and being fast all the time.
That is why, over a season it is very hard to get the better of him, as the other competitors need to be at a very high level every race as well.
He will be hard to beat in a competitive car for a good while.
Of course if the competitor cars are as far as ahead as the RB19 is, or the Mercs were, Verstappen will be back to pre-2021 levels, winning an odd race here and there and causing trouble to the guys in the dominant car.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
28th August 2023, 22:03
Indeed, if you swapped verstappen and some good driver in a competitive car before the beginning of this season, he would be able to win some race.
RH
29th August 2023, 2:39
Agree yes.
Sam
28th August 2023, 13:47
Having followed the sport since around 1994 (though not fully watching all seasons), the four stand outs are Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton and Verstappen. Arguments can be made for any of those four being the best but I would probably have to go for Verstappen (and I say this as an Alonso supporter who is not a fan of Verstappen).
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
28th August 2023, 22:22
Yes, I’m a schumacher fan but was immediately impressed by verstappen’s talent, speed, aggressiveness and consistency, he seemed like schumacher’s successor early on already for me.
RR
28th August 2023, 15:28
Is Alonso angling for a drive at RB to end his career with…
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
28th August 2023, 22:22
I think most people would like to see that!
Jeffrey Powell
28th August 2023, 18:50
The best driver in F1 History , that’s a bit of a stretch, I am a great admirer of Max’s skills u but until he is teamed with the likes of Alonso it’s difficult to be sure ,if he thrashed Alonso you could say he was the most effective driver of this era. But how he would fair against Jim Clark in the same unreliable and incredibly dangerous Lotus we will never know . Thank goodness!.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
28th August 2023, 22:24
Yes, a shame we can’t directly compare those drivers of the 50s, 60s etc. like fangio, ascari, clark to contemporaries, I think people who dismiss the older drivers could be in for some surprises if it were possible to make them compete with both drivers at peak.
Lee1
28th August 2023, 20:48
To be fair, Perez should surely have been brought in first for the swap from inters to softs? Also max should have been punished for pushing gazly off the track! Rad bull sacrificed Perez to get Max a record. I would never have counted that as victory as I had not actually won it correctly. In fact I never even counted victories if my main competitors were not present….
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
28th August 2023, 22:26
I don’t think that call takes away anything from verstappen, he was gaining up to 4 sec per lap on perez with the dry track, and on other hand, perez was pitted both times before verstappen and hence gained time when he switched to intermediates.
I’m sure he would’ve passed perez without issues with perez’s medriocre wet weather pace.
baasbas
29th August 2023, 14:35
@Lee1
To be fair you say? Well I agree, let’s be fair here. Let’s also mention Perez received a couple messages from his engineer:
Two time instructions, to go for between zero and -1 on delta first and later again a -1 on delta. Perez asks his engineer: “a second?” who confirmed.
Also there are two other very direct instructions: “use the tire more”.
So that is 4(!) hurry up messages. (on consequent laps)
Side note: Perez was slower than Zhou who gained time on him in one of the worst cars on the grid.
Only after this RBR pull in Verstappen first.
So yes, let’s be fair, RBR didn’t sacrifice Perez, he did that by himself
iCarbs (@icarby)
29th August 2023, 17:56
Objective, personality competition, it goes on… Max is exceptional as have other drivers been before him. (Vettel was pretty ruthless too), this season and last was conclusive of the significant advantage Rbr have had over the rest of the field with some minor issues with engine reliability being the only stain, outside of that it’s been incredibly easy for Rbr but have to give significant respect to the operations team at Rbr they have been pretty close to faultless and in even the chaotic race in Holland, they were spot on with the decisions.
But one thing is clear Adrian Newey and the rest of the aero team are unparalleled in F1
Tyler D
30th August 2023, 0:08
Agree.. he is a 100% cheater.
Jokes aside… Alonso does like to suck up to Max quite a bit… when Lewis won in a dominating fashion, he just cried that it’s all the car.,. Now with Max, he has quite the opposite opinion.
I wonder, to Alonso’s eyes…what’s the glaring difference between Max and Lewis… I really wonder… hmmmm….