Corporate teams vs. works team vs. racing outfits
- 12th November 2013, 7:42 at 7:42 am #133891Aish HeydrichParticipant
In my opinion the future of F1 for pure Racing Outfits teams like Lotus, Sauber, Williams are so bleak because they’re not essentially business houses. Today all the teams that you find in the front of the grid are essentially Corporate Teams like Red Bull Racing. While Mercedes and Ferrari being Works Teams have a good corporate side to them.
Mercedes has huge profitability, shares are trading well everywhere, even though a little down at times, Return on Investments are high and they can afford F1 costs because of their tremendous corporate profitabilty. While Ferrari was “born on money” as someone here once mentioned.
That leaves McLaren. I think their future is not very certain either. Yes they are a racing outfit but their business model is highly corporate. But they need to corporatize it even more otherwise they it’s not a distant future when they might also end up like Williams and Sauber.
I’m glad the situation is much healthier in Endurance Racing.12th November 2013, 9:00 at 9:00 am #245026
What Lotus, Sauber and Williams lack is a major sponsor. Sure, they have sponsors, but no one big name that is tied to them the way McLaren currently have Vodafone.12th November 2013, 9:46 at 9:46 am #245027Aish HeydrichParticipant
Yeah agreed. But also think from the business corporations’ point of view. Why would they make so much investment when the yield cannot be that good? With world economy at it’s current dwindling state, who would care about reviving a team in F1? Whoever are there already may stay or leave, but the barriers to new entrants are huge.12th November 2013, 9:54 at 9:54 am #245028
Actually, the world economy is largely recovering. There’s a few national economies that are slowing things down, and the odd incident – like the US government shutdown – that might threaten it, but by and large, the economy is gaining momentum.
The real barrier to entry is the inconsistent performances by the teams. Williams is a prime example of this, unable to maintain any kind of form.12th November 2013, 10:19 at 10:19 am #245029Magnificent GeoffreyParticipant
Williams aren’t just a racing team. They have their Hybrid Systems development wing that won them the Le Mans 24 Hours with Audi and their R18.
It’s really sad for me to see privateer teams like Williams and Sauber struggling, because privateer teams have always been my favourites and the ones I’ve always wanted to succeed most.12th November 2013, 10:43 at 10:43 am #245030
The problem is in their driver choices. Ten, twenty years ago, they had some of the biggest names in the sport. Now, they’re a retirement home for under-performing South Americans. Four of their past five drivers – Barrichello, Maldonado, Senna and now Massa – have been uninspired at best.
What Williams need is a big-name driver who can draw money and talented designers into the team. Otherwise, they’re probably going to have an ignominious end.12th November 2013, 11:04 at 11:04 am #245031mnmracerParticipant
Founded by a three-time World Champion, each and every important team member a long history in racing, fought in the middle and the back of the grid for 12 years before any serious success. Yeah, the Milton Keynes team is a ‘corporate team’ >_>.
What is the brand version of racism? Brandism?
Is it really so hard to look past a sponsor?12th November 2013, 11:24 at 11:24 am #245032Lucas WilsonParticipant
What I liked in the early to mid 2000’s was that F1 was turning into what it is today (a place where you need big bucks to compete), major corporations were entering and taking over teams (BMW to Williams at first, Toyota joining, Ford/Jaguar taking over Jackie Stewarts team) but there were still teams founded by people who loved RACING not money and even though they were struggling, they kept the fight going.
This is what I feel is lacking in F1 today, I’d love a average guy who really loves racing and says “lets race in F1” I feel that is what is missing. The teams have been rebranded corperate and they are really hard to love.
And although I never watching during these years I feel sad that we may never see, say a Minardi or a Jordan or a Arrows trying to take the fight to the big boys. There could be teams that will take a personal name in the future, so when the next Tony Fernandes comes along and decides to enter, don’t name it Caterham or Marussia, because you don’t feel warmed to them. I feel there would be more love for the back end guys if they had a more private feel, I would rather see a Booth against a Fernandes rather than a Marussia against a Caterham. Rant over.12th November 2013, 11:29 at 11:29 am #245033NickParticipant
What Williams needed was Raikkonen. Looking how he did in Lotus in 2012, I’m sure he could have won a race more, or at least perform more consistent than Maldonado and better than Bruno Senna.
Williams, in my eyes, have been ‘settling’ on drivers since 1996.
They managed to scare off Mansell, they ended Hill’s contract because of the ludicrous notion he wanted more money for winning the championship and lost Villeneuve to the team of make believe. Frentzen was considered talented, but not so much as a Schumacher, Hill or Villeneuve, or Hakkinen, even not as much as Alesi and Berger. Then they got the talented, but crash-prone Ralf Schumacher, who matured nicely, but never was a truly amazing driver. Zanardi was a huge gamble, even without the benefit of hindsight. Button was a nice signing, but had to go after a year. Montoya-Schumacher was probably the best pair they had since Hill-Villeneuve, but a lack of (presumably) aerodynamic efficiency and the relentless assault of Schumacher/Ferrari on F1 in the early 00s meant they didn’t win as much as they could. Montoya kept in contention for the 2003 title for a long time, though, and during the middle of the season, Ralf was challenging as well.
In 2004 they made a very costly mistake of not only building the Walrus, but also letting go of both Ralf and Montoya on being outbid by Toyota and McLaren. Even at that, Raikkonen/Montoya was a better driver pairing than Montoya/Schumacher. For 2005, Webber and Heidfeld looked good on paper, but even then, Heidfeld wasn’t considered a future champion anymore, while Webber was considered talented, but never managed to string a weekend together (apart from Monaco that year, but never with Jaguar) and the car once again broke down often. With BMW leaving and Rosberg coming in as a rookie (their third in 6 years time) they took another gamble, but Webber proved to be out of place at Williams and Rosberg, while fast, was a rookie.
When Webber left for Red Bull, they got Wurz. I love that guy, but he hadn’t raced since 2000, and it showed. I don’t think we need to talk about Nakajima, even though Rosberg grew as a driver, the team sure went backwards.
With Hulkenberg-Barrichello, I personally think they had a good driver combination. Barrichello proved he could still win races in 2009 and Hulkenberg was considered a talent. But, once again they consolidated and went with Maldonado for 2011. What Bruno Senna was doing there, I’ll never understand. Bottas makes sense, but is again a rookie.
I applaud Williams for taking on as many rookies as they did, but you can’t deny those rookies sometimes cost them a lot of points (Zanardi, Button, Nakajima) or drivers were kept on for a very short period (Heidfeld, Wurz, Hulkenber, Senna). Basically, they always had 1 ‘experienced’ driver who was considered talented, but not a great and a rookie or a ‘second choice’. Don’t get me wrong, I liked Webber-Heidfeld, Webber-Rosberg, Barrichello-Hulkenberg, but you can’t deny they haven’t had a superstar driver since Villeneuve. And that’s where Williams lack, plus a lack of consistency to draw sponsors from a country. Brazilian companies might sponsor Williams again, but would be more willing to do so if Barrichello, Senna and Massa were continuously signed. They never seemed to get the most of their Japanese connection with Toyota and Nakajima, either.
Sauber I personally think has a less structural problem, but I don’t think Peter Sauber imagined ever buying back his team from BMW and the lack of sponsors in 2010 reflected that. They need to either make sure Carlos Slim stays with them, or make sure they connect with Russia or Ferrari, but have to stop with betting on multiple horses. (Chelsea, Telmex, Sirotkin, Ferrari)
As for Lotus, they need a business model. Genii bought Renault F1, but seemingly thought they’d sell their shares to Lotus in a breeze. That didn’t happen, Honeywell didn’t happen, Quantum hasn’t happened yet. They need some decision making and a strategy, including what to do if something doesn’t happen. (Either that, or Honeywell opted out at the very last minute.)
As for Caterham and Marussia, hopefully their companies stay afloat, because neither would survive as a pure racing outfit without a crazy rich supporter.
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