[Anonymous]

Would this be a better method of elimination qualifying than what has been agreed by the teams?

Q1
Lasting for 40 minutes, the slowest car gets eliminated after 7 minutes and every 3 minutes thereafter until 10 cars remain, and after every 4th car is eliminated the laptimes for the remaining cars get reset. So like this:

The session begins with 40 minutes on the clock.
With 33 minutes left the car in P22 is eliminated.
With 30 minutes left the car in P21 is eliminated.
With 27 minutes left the car in P20 is eliminated.
With 24 minutes left the car in P19 is eliminated and the remaining 18 cars have their laptimes reset.
With 21 minutes left the car in P18 is eliminated.
With 18 minutes left the car in P17 is eliminated.
With 15 minutes left the car in P16 is eliminated.
With 12 minutes left the car in P15 is eliminated and the remaining 14 cars have their laptimes reset.
With 9 minutes left the car in P14 is eliminated.
With 6 minutes left the car in P13 is eliminated.
With 3 minutes left the car in P12 is eliminated.
With 0 minutes left the car in P11 is eliminated and the remaining 10 cars go into Q2.

Q2
Beginning 8 minutes after Q1 ends and lasting for 12 minutes, the 10 cars remaining at the end of Q1 take part and with their laptimes reset at the start (Basically the same as Q3 of recent years).

So compared to what they have agreed to, there are longer gaps between each elimination (double of what has been agreed) to give the teams and drivers a better and more fair chance to improve if they need to, and it would almost certainly mean longer periods of time that the cars are on the circuit by combining the first two parts of qualifying into one longer part with fair time gaps between resetting of laptimes. Also, the final session gets untouched from last year.

[VMaxMuffin]

To be honest, I think almost anything is better than the current proposal. This is certainly better, mostly because with 3 min between eliminations, any driver already out on track has an opportunity to improve their laptime. However, it is still needlessly complicated. It also still has the biggest problem in my mind, which is that only lap times set before the elimination time count. Currently, times set after the flag falls (at the end of the session) still count, as long as the lap was started before time was up.

Here’s what I mean by this problem – let’s say that a driver is in the elimination position, and starts a lap with 1:30 to go. The time of the driver in front is 1:30.5. If the driver currently in the elimination position sets a lap time of 1:30.2, they will still be eliminated despite setting a time faster than that of the driver in front. Trying to explain that to people who don’t watch and follow F1 religiously is going to be difficult, and I don’t think it’s particularly fair either. The possibility of these close calls is going to cause controversy too, because it won’t always be clear which laps count, who’s still in, and so on.

Really, I think the current system was fine. If it had to be changed to some sort of “elimination format”, this is what I would do:

Q1: 15 min, “normal” qualifying session with all but the top 16 eliminated (this is basically just to reduce potential traffic in following sessions). The top 4 get to “bypass” Q2 (again, to reduce traffic issues, and also to provide some incentive for setting quick times in Q1).

~5 minute break~

Q2: Elimination session, 29 minutes.
So, this is the “complicated” session (which I don’t think needs to exist, but let’s just assume it’s “needed”). Basically, cars 7-16 (10 cars) are competing for the 4 remaining places in Q3. So that cars in this session aren’t disadvantaged by having to use tyres from their allocation, all tyres used in this session are provided specifically for it* and are not taken from the race allocation.

So, this session would be divided into 3 sub-sessions. The first is 7 minutes long, then at the end of the 7 minutes all drivers CAN COMPLETE THEIR LAPS. The slowest 2 will be eliminated. A quick 4 minute break (from the end of the 8 minutes) to sort out who’s eliminated, then another 7 minute session starts to eliminate 2 more cars, followed by another 4 minute break, followed by another 7 minute session to eliminate the final 2.

~5 minute break~

Q3: one final 8 minute session to determine who sits on pole.

*I think the whole using race tyres in qualifying is a bit annoying anyway, so actually if it was up to me the race tyre allocation would be completely separated from the qualifying allocation

[VMaxMuffin]

I’ve looked back at what I wrote and decided it’s still utter garbage. Elimination qualifying is just plain stupid.

However, there is one thing change I would like to see in F1 qualifying, which is single lap qualifying. Hear me out.

Firstly, I don’t want to put the whole field through SLQ. That would be a bit boring and a waste of time. However, I think it would be very exciting to see a small group of the fastest cars go through a shootout. I find Top 10 shootouts very exciting in V8 Supercars and other series, because it puts pressure on the drivers to go out and set one perfect lap. No banker, no “nothing to lose” second lap. Although, series which use it normally have much closer competition than F1. So, I would propose just a Top 6 shootout for F1.

So, my sessions would look like this:

Q1: Eliminate the first batch* of cars. 20 min.
Break, probably 6 minutes.
Q2: Eliminate the second batch* of cars. 20 min.
Break, probably 6 minutes again.
Q3: Top 6, single lap qualifying. First driver is released (driver who set 6th fastest time in Q2), they do their hot lap, then while on their cool down lap the next driver is released on to their warmup lap, and so on. This process will probably take approximately the length of the lap, plus 30-45sec, per car, based on what I’ve seen in other series. So, that would be a session length of approximately 12-16 minutes I think, depending on the track. Certainly no more than 20 minutes, even at Spa in the wet.

That is much more simple and is simply an evolution of what we have. I can’t decide if I prefer this to the current Q3 or not, but I do enjoy shootouts in other series, so if F1 insists on something different I think this is the way to go.

*A batch is determined by (n-6)/2, where n is the number of cars. So assuming a 22 car field, that means 8 cars are eliminated in each session.

[James Brickles]

My biggest problem with elimination qualifying is that it doesn’t work in the Pirelli-era of F1. The tyres go off faster than ice lollies on a hot day, and you won’t have time to just bolt on another set of tyres and go for a faster time, you have to stay out and make the best out of a bad job. In the 2010 Bridgestone era, it wouldn’t be that bad, but still the worst qualifying format.

Elimination only works in Burnout 3, and they’re my least favourite races to do.

[JackySteeg]

I have to admit, I really like @vmaxmuffin ‘s idea, although maybe I’d keep it for the top 10. Replacing Q3 with single lap qualifying for the top X drivers would have a lot more capacity to produce surprise results than either the current qualifying format or the new one. The huge pressure drivers faced when going into their one and only attempt was something I miss about the old single-lap format. Seeing someone like Lewis Hamilton screwing up his final qualifying attempt isn’t as dramatic when you know he’s already set a lap good enough for 2nd.

Yup, I’m very much sold on this.

[Anonymous]

@vmaxmuffin

I don’t see how the elimination qualifying can be seen as complicated, it is basically the same as last year but instead of eliminating the slowest few cars at the end of each of the first two sessions they will be eliminating the slowest car on a one-by-one basis until only so many cars remain. The problem is that having the time between one car being eliminated and the next car being eliminated at 1 minute and 30 seconds is just too short, most circuits on the calendar take longer than 1m 30s to complete a lap, and in my mind I can not see how this method will work without it being too rushed.

I am willing to give this new qualifying method a chance because it could mix up the grid and therefore lead to a better viewing on Sunday but I think there needs to be greater time between each elimination, at least 3 minutes as I have suggested in the first comment, otherwise it will be too rushed.

[RetardedF1sh]

The problem with eliminations every 1 min 30 sec is that if the lap takes more than that to complete, the second to last driver is also eliminated if he is yet to start a lap. He simply doesn’t have the time to complete a new one in time.

Trafic will also be a bigger problem when everybody is trying to improve at the same time not to get eliminated early. A simple case of impeding might get a top driver eliminated very early. I don’t see how a three place grid is big enough penalty for that.

Here’s my proposition:

Q1: 20 minute session, all drivers go out to set a laptime. No one gets eliminated, 11 slowest drivers proceed to Q2, eleven fastest to Q3.
Break, 5 minutes
Q2: 11 slowest cars in Q1 go out for a 15 minute session. Q2 determines the grid from 12th to 22nd.
Break, 5 minutes
Q3: Top 11 cars in Q1 go out for a 15 minute session. Fastest driver starts on pole, slowest in 11th.

Not dramatically different from the current system but it would make Q1 and Q2 more interesting I think.

[Michal]

I really like @vmaxmuffin’s idea, I have also thought about that format some time ago. That’s my slightly different proposal:

Q1: 15-minute session with all drivers, slowest six eliminated. 5-minute break.
Q2: 12-minute session with 16 drivers, slowest six eliminated. 5-minute break.
Q3: 10-minute session with 10 drivers, slowest five eliminated. 8-minute break.
Q4: Five remaining drivers have a one flying lap, going out with reversed Q3 order.

[Author]

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