Forum Replies Created
- Posts
My point is, is that there are a whole lot off drivers outthere that are good enough for F1. Let’s not give them names for now!
When you are a young driver who becomes European or World Champion karting or in the top off the standings throughout the years, after that becomes the best rookie at your launch in single seater racing. After that you go to F3 the drive for a few midfield teams, but you manage to be a competitor in the top off the rankings. You land a podium in Macau or Zandvoort in F3. You move to WSR 3.5 or GP2 and again you’re a competitor in the top of the rankings.
Everywhere you went you won your races, scored some podiums and won a one or more championships.Why could you not achieve that in F1? There is no reason to believe that such a driver is not competitive in F1 under the wright surcomstances, is it?
And if it’s name is Pic, Maldonado, Petrov, d’Ambrossio, di Grassi, di Resta, Sutil, Kobayashi, Bianchi, Ericsson or van der Garde doesn’t matter at all!
I think those drivers do not get the respect they deserve and it’s (in my upinion) unbelievable that some people think otherwise. In my upinion they are short sighted and live in a fantasy world to believe that everybody is capable to win everything and everywhere. There is a lot that has to come in place to be able to win championships. And even then it’s no garantee you will succeed in F1!
What Hulkenberg and Frijns achieved is a remarcable achievment and still both off them are strugling to stay in F1 or become part off it. As Vettel did far less then both drivers and was taken care off by RedBull and is now 4 times world champion!
Results in the lower ranks tells just a little part off the complete story! When you are a top 5 competitor in all lower ranks, you deserve your chance in F1 is my believe. You can’t win them all!!!
As for van der Garde; He was a McLaren and Renault junior driver, thats why he was part of ASM in 2006 (his worst year in autosport). He isn’t as good as Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso, Raikkonen, Rosberg and Hulkenberg, but everybody else is all the same in my upionion!
The problem is that Magnussen did not perform that good in F3 (German as well as British) and needed his time in WSR 3.5 as well. It doesn’t make him a worse driver and he could become a great driver in F1 as well. While drivers like Frijns, da Costa and Vandoorne where there a lot faster, and immediatly could fight for the titles where ever they showed up.
But the backing of Ferrari, RedBull and McLaren is a help for drivers like Bianchi, Kvyat and Magnussen. Bianchi didn’t do well (on his reputation as a ace) in GP2. And with his speed, the team and experience he should have won the title in WSR 2012, even before the last race off the season. Frijns didn’t have the experience or best team around and still got the title. That is a great performance and that is what everybody saw. He turned RedBull down several times and wanted to make his own choices. He has to feel comfortable with the team and car to perform. His choices paid out so far, but he cannot acspect from Ferrari, RedBull and McLaren to turn down their own multi million investments. They invest millions of Dollars in their young drivers to see some surface ready for F1. And with drivers like Magnussen, Vandoorne, Kvyat, da Costa, Gasly, Marciello, Bianchi and a few others they all have more then respectable drivers for F1 seats. Frijns in my upinion is better then all off them, but not that much better to turn down their investments!
There is a new rissing star on his way to F1, Max Verstappen! All the young driver programms wanted him, but his father Jos Verstappen turned them all down so far. Because they want to make their own choices as long as possible. Up untill now it worked perfectly, just like with Frijns. But I think that they have to chose a young driver programm at one point to make the last step.As for Stevens :-) I think he can battle for the championship in 2014, but their are some youngsters that could do the same! For Sirotkin, he has to top the rankings as well and beat his young and talented teammate. When he is not aible to batlle for the championship and/or beat his rookie teammate he wouldn’t have a go at Sauber for 2015.
The WSR 3.5 is without daCosta, Vandoorne and Magnussen. So it could be a litlle less hard for them to top the rankings this year. But with Gasly, Sainz jr, Marciello there are some strong competitors in good seats.I think that Vergne will be fired at the end off 2014 in favour of Sainz (if he preforms well). It’s all about the money! Da Costa has no financial backing, while Kvyat has backing from some Russian investers. Both drivers performed strong in their championships, but it made it easier to pick Kvyat after winning his GP3 title and strong F3 performances combined with his financial backing. When Kvyat had a done bad last year they would pick da Costa. But now the financial backing is the bonus that comes with the talent for STR.
All the talented drivers have some financial backings to make them interesting for the driver programms. Sainz has some great financial partners with him, without RedBull. So a strong perfomance from Sainz this year makes him top contender for the seat next to Kvyat next year!There is more then meets the eye with the young driver programms or sponsorships. From the start off their carreer the money they bring makes the seat they get. The seat they can buy, makes if they can clinch a title. McLaren bought the best seats possible in F3 and GP2 for there aces Magnussen and Hamilton. RedBull did so for all their drivers as Ferrari paid for the seats of Bianchi. Carlos Slim paid for the carreer of Perez and Guiterez. And so on and so on!!!
@wsrgo Yes you’re completly wright! Back then it was more easy.
So a FR 2.0 Euroseries means even less then a WSR3.5 back then. But Heikki Kovalainen and Robert Kubica both won that same championship in the easier years and are highly ranked F1 drivers. Van der Garde wins that title also and is counted less then Kubica and Kovalainen. I don’t understand it!
The same is more or less for Sutil and de la Rosa! Both won the relative weaker Japanees F3 championship and are respected F1 drivers.It seems that not everybody is objective about quality off drivers!
Van der Garde competed against Sutil, Kobayashi, di Resta, Vettel, Hamilton, Pic, Maldonado, Grosjean, Guiterez, Perez, Bianchi and Chilton. That are 12 off the 22 drivers in the current F1. A view others are Kubica, d’Ambrossio, Senna and diGrassi. He raced them all to the finish, scored podiums and wins amongst them and was in the top off all the rankings at that time. Not everyone is able to win, and he hadn’t the best material (without 2006 ASM F3 season, that was dramatic and Barwa Addax 2010 and 2011). In 2011 he should be the runner-up in the championship but that was taken from him!
But when you can race all off them before F1 and you are aible to win races and score podiums, you’re also caipable off doing that in F1 is my believe!What I ment to say that the euroseries FR2.0 now is one off the toughest competitions, compared to the FR2.0 Italy. Up untill 2008 the F3 (German, English and Euroseries) was the best way, for 2008 and beyond the FR2.0 and WSR 3.5 seems to be the best way to GP3/GP2/F1.
So I think you didn’t understand me correctly!
But while it was a great achievment to win the Euroseries FR2.0, a convinsing title claim in the WSR3.5 is a bit more of a achievment don’t you agree?
Formula Renault Italy?! That is the same as Formula Renault Benelux, France or Germany! He won it that fair enough, but that tells me no more then the Russian Lada cup 1.6 that Petrov once won!
The Euroseries FR 2.0 is a other cup of tea instead! (comparing to the FR Italy) But not as highly ranked as a WSR 3.5 title does it?
Really, the GP2 Asia series????
That championship was a hoax, and it means less than the A1GP title off Hulkenberg with team Germany!
Some drivers drove just one weekend, like Hulkenberg. I really like the driver Kobayashi, but I don’t think he is any better then Pic, d’Ambrossio, Guiterez or van der Garde! But I like his style more :-)
I’m saying the same as you, I only defent van der Garde as you are defending others!
I think that a driver, if it’s van der Garde/ Pic/ d’Ambrossio/ Senna/ Petrov/ Perez/ diGrassi/ Guiterez/ Kvyat/ Ricciardo/ Vergne/ Bottas/ diResta/ Sutil/ Bianchi/ Magnussen/ Calado/ Bird/ Ericsson/ da Costa/ Rossi/ Jucadella/ Albuquerque and so on and so on, that can reach podia, win races and even championships througout his career in different kinds off lower class Formula cars, should have a go in F1! And all of the driver I just named did just that, but not all of them will get the opportunnity. One off the best examples off a very talented driver that I prevere to see in F1 is Parente. But with no budget he couldn’t make it!
That is what i’m saying.
So I really think van der Garde is good enough to compete in F1. When he can compete against most off the guys in F1 elsewhere, he can do it in F1 also under the wright surcemstances. But he needed budget to get there, unfortunatly others don’t have that!
I think all the drivers named by me wouldn’t do more worse then Irvine or Webber under the same conditions! And when I look at the past the list with names could go on and on.
It took van Garde long to reach F1. But you’re not from under a stone I think! It takes more then talent, money and tittles to reach F1. Mark Webber didn’t win anything before F1 and was just 27 when he made his debut. Does it make him a bad driver, didn’t he deserve to be in F1?
Petrov was just second in the championship (his 4th season with the best teams) because Grosjean moved up to Renault during the season.
Maldonado took the title in his fifth season of GP2!
Guiterez won his GP3 title, but in GP2 he had some poor performances.
Perez was not better in the 2010 season over van der Garde. When you look at mechanical faillures van der Garde had during the season, while driving a good position for points and some stupid mistakes by the team threw him back in the standings. He didn’t win a race that season, but he was the faster one during the season. The stupid rules off GP2 with the reversed grid made it possible for Perez to land some wins. As the same rules made it that problems at one race kills you’re chances for the second. points. podium and championship. It is not because it’s van der Garde I say this, the same happend to Nasr and Coletti last year. When Nasr had no mechanical problems in a few of the first races (Belgium and Monza), he would have scored more points. But a problem in the first race leaves you without a chance for the second race. Why don’t they have a second qualifying for the second race?
What championship did Kobayashi win?
I’m following Kamuï from his F3 period and always thought it was a great driver with a agressive aproach (wich a like a lot) and hoped he reached F1 once. But his performance in F3 and GP2 didn’t make him outstanding. While I was backing him on a few Forums, others where not confinced he could do well in F1. Now he is one of the most beloved drivers out there!
Championship standing only tells us a part off the story! Offcourse Hulkenberg and Frijns are in a league off ther own where it comes to talent. Even Hamilton, Rosberg, Alonso and Vettel are amateurs compared to them. But Vettel is 4 times champion now and Hulkenberg is in his 4th season in F1 and still hasn’t won a race. While Maldonado has won his race already! Does it make Maldonado better then Hulkenberg?
In F1 it is not what you can do in the car, but who do you know outside the car. That is what makes you’re career and decides if you can win the tittle or not!@Deej92
The bad performing car in the begining off 2013 cost them P10 in the End. When you look when the P13 was scored by Bianchi it was in those first races! The drivers hadn’t anything to do with that!Heikki drove that car aswell and commented that it was nowere near the car off 2012. It was a disaster to drive. In all his trainings he didn’t once outperform vd Garde and Pic by seconds. It was a few tenths in favour of one or the other. Both drivers vd Garde as Pic are matched to Heikki so not as bad as you would suspect!
And when you look to the differences between teammates. Bianchi vs Chilton, Vettel vs Webber, Alonso vs Massa, Hülkenberg vs Guiterez. Then you will see that both drivers where allways within a few tenths off a second a part, where all the others where further a part. So that means they are driving the car on his limmits where others should improve to keep up with their teammates.When Pic, vd Garde, Kovalainen and Rossi all driving the same laptimes with that car, that is as fast as it goes. Don’t you think so?
Ofcourse vd Garde made some mistakes, but he was a rookie wasn’t he? He has to learn throughout the year and he did! He is the only driver at Lotus/Caterham to get in to Q2, and he did it twice in one single year. And qualifying is the only chance for the team to show something. Because during the races there will be no DNF’s or just one or two. Van der Garde did what Kovalainen, Trulli, Petrov and second year Pic couldn’t do!
I really think all off you giving drivers like Pic and van der Garde to little respect.
Pic has Renault backing and that is the reason he is driving at Caterham and on his way to Lotus this year. See the interview with his manager Panis earlier!
van der Garde has backing from Telfort/McGregor throughout his career, long before Marcel Boekhoorn became his father in law or he had even a relationship with the daughter of Marcel Boekhoorn. Boekhoorn is confinced of his talent. Otherwise he wouldn’t back him up for F1 but sportscars!And some of you think that Kobayashi, Maldonado, Petrov, Guiterez and Perez are drivers that confinced their sponsors and therefor are better drivers? What tittles did they all win and how well did they perform?
If you say they are better drivers, you’re far from objective!VDG first had sponsorship from Telfort a local telecom provider. His manager en his performance confinced this company to put some money en effort in this driver as World Champion Karting!
He made some poor choices in his carreer! First Jos Verstappen told him not to go to the Formula Renault championship (where he became best Rookie) but go to the German F3 instead. Back then de Formula Renault was not as good as now a days. He choose to drive Formula Renault and the support off Jos Verstappen came to a end.
Telfort got his back, in the meantime Giedo took notice off the daughter of the owner off Telfort and they fell in love. How Romantic!!! His performance (not as poor as some off you want to believe concidering the material he had over the years) still confinced Marcel Boekhoorn to keep supporting him. After selling Telfort the sponsorship came from an other compagny McGregor. A company not only supporting Giedo, but a lot off diverend Dutch drivers as Tom Coronel and Stijn Schothorst as well.Giedo won the WSR3.5 title with a very strong performance in 2008. He knows what it takes to win races and titles. His GP2 years where not as bad as they seem! His first year he had some good races, podium finishes and wins. His second year with Barwa he had a couple off technical faillures that throw him back a little as some stupid mistakes from the team as well (leaving the grid to late so he got a drivethrough while driving in a solid position). His second year at Barwa he was in the lead off the championship, and Bianchi taking him out at Barcelona and Monaco made him drop back in second in the standings! He hold that position troughout the season untill the very last race at Monza. At race one he avoided a accidant by cutting the corner, there was no other option. There for he got a drive through, wich means in Monza that you have no chance at all to gain some points. The second race he drove very solid from the end off the grid up to P12. But with the competition all scoring points he lost his second place in the championship. When Bianchi did not take him out several times a simmular accidant at Spa where someone else drove him off in race 1, without the stupid drivethrough at Monza he would be second quit easy that year. (being only his third season GP2)
He is a solid driver, not the same material as Vettel, Hamilton, Rosberg, Hülkenberg, Alonso and Raikkonen. But all the others are no better or worse then van der Garde!
Off course drivers like Frijns and Hïlkenberg would be prevered on the grid! But there are only a few with that kind of talent!
Giedo is a pay driver, supported by people that believe in his talent instead of taking care off Family. Marcel Boekhoorn became a billionaire by good investements not by throwing his money away!
