F1 links: Ferrari, Toyota and Red Bull may exit

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Here’s a round-up of F1 news and other interesting links I’ve found today.

If you’ve spotted a hot news story, interesting new website or just something funny from the world of F1, please share your links in the comments below.

Rebel three seek breakaway support

"The word here in Monaco is that Ferrari, Toyota and Red Bull intend to use the meeting to try to persuade the other teams to join them in walking away from Formula 1 altogether and setting up their own championship."

Q & A with iSport’s Paul Jackson

"If they named GP2 Formula 1 and put it on the TV, how many people would know? Only the real hardcore enthusiasts."

Sutil confident over graining issues

Adrian Sutil: "The car felt OK, reasonably balanced under the high downforce configuration, but the biggest problem we have at the moment is the rear tyre graining. Both the soft and the supersofts seem to be really bad and after even a medium-length run the graining is so bad it really affects the balance of the car. I am confident we can find a solution for qualifying though – the extra day we have will help."

‘Light’ Rosberg says Williams is stronger

Nico Rosberg: "We also have massive graining problems, on longer runs the rears are destroyed totally."

Monaco Thursday quotes: Bridgestone

Hirohide Hamashima: "The super soft tyre was faster than the soft tyre, as we expected. The difference between the two tyres today was around 0.4 seconds over the fastest lap. Both tyres delivered their fastest lap on the first or second flying lap, and neither tyre suffers greatly in terms of wear or degradation because of the low grip here." No graining, then?

The Hack looks back > at Monaco Grands Prix

"If I had to pick out just one supreme Monaco performance, it would be the sight of Keke Rosberg wrestling with an agricultural Theodore in qualifying for the 1978 race, holding the thing on opposite lock all the way through Casino Square with its Cosworth engine unwaveringly at maximum revs all the way."

These are links I’ve bookmarked using Delicious. You can see my Delicious profile here.

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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38 comments on “F1 links: Ferrari, Toyota and Red Bull may exit”

  1. By Motorsport.com/GMM

    Flavio Briatore’s super-yacht, moored in the trackside harbour, will be the scene of a crucial FOTA meeting on Friday.

    At 2pm, it is on the Renault boss’ triple-storey boat, called ‘Force Blue’, that the Formula One teams alliance will devise their strategy for a subsequent meeting with the FIA president.

    During a London meeting last Friday, the teams told Max Mosley that they wanted to go away and devise an alternative to his budget cap plans, which have sparked a spate of quit threats.

    Mosley reportedly wanted his meeting with FOTA to take place at 3.30pm on Friday, which is a traditional ‘free day’ in between Thursday practice and Saturday’s track action.

    “He wanted to have us under time pressure,” surmised Red Bull boss Christian Horner, according to Germany’s Auto Motor und Sport.

    The Mosley meeting was therefore moved back to 4pm, and the outcome is highly anticipated, even by the unusually anxious Bernie Ecclestone.

    “Well, I am concerned, I don’t want them (Ferrari) leaving,” the F1 chief executive admitted to reporters in Monte Carlo. “I don’t think anybody does.”

    Making Max wait.
    I`m not laughing, I`m not laughing ….. OK, I`m laughing! :)
    It`s got so silly I have to see the funny side.

  2. This is unbelievable…. how do two senile clowns screw up so badly that the entire sport is in jepardy?

    I really hope this works out and that the end result is bernie and Max are forced into retirement.

  3. Well if you have 3 teams wanting to rebel and the other 7 refuse to join them it could tear FOTA apart.
    That would be the worst thing for Formula One. As soon as the teams are no longer united then it will easy for Max to implement his regulations and for Bernie to pick off the teams to stop them from re-uniting.

    1. Then of course you have ISport`s Paul Jackson (as quoted above) saying “”If they named GP2 Formula 1 and put it on the TV, how many people would know? Only the real hardcore enthusiasts.”

      I wonder how the other hardcore enthusiasts on here feel about that?

    2. It isn’t that simple – Williams and Brawn are tied by accepting money from Bernie in advance so they can’t just go and leave the sport. Besides, if there ever was a time to establish new series this is not it in current economic climate.

  4. Am i a Hardcore enthusiast i wonder???????

    1. If your hard drive is full of images of low-slung cars in provocative positions, yes, probably you are :)

  5. The question in my mind would be ‘why RedBull?’ I can understand Toyota wanting to pull out, it is a manufacturer, spent lots of money but no result, Ferrari have put themselves in this corner, on the other hand Red Bull are showing real promise, at the front, and competing for podiums. A strange time to be thinking of leaving, or is Matesich feeling the pinch? A breakaway Formula? who will trust Ferrari after ‘Vetogate’ whatever motorsport they choose to take part in, all the other teams will wonder if they have a cosy little deal, as part of their entry. Ferrari would do well to fight their corner within a budget cap, show they have the ability to produce a winning car, despite that, maybe start a new team, which they could use as a test bed, with all the spare cash they will have, show some spine Ferrari, take your lumps, and get on with it!

    1. I think your missing the point. The true dispute here is not over retaining the ability to spend liberally, but the fact that the teams think the CONCEPT of a budget cap (or its execution for that matter) would be detrimental to the integrity of F1, and infeasible as well. Also, as far as “vetogate” goes, thats the fault of the FIA and Bernie, not Ferrari. Can you name one team on the grid that WOULDNT want an unfair veto if they could have one? Not to mention, Ferrari is trying to use this veto to protect the interests of all the teams in FOTA, not themselves alone, because no one is happy about a 2-tier championship.

    2. Vetogate, is the result of a deal with Bernie the FIA, and FERRARI, and whether anyone likes it or not, F1 will have to have a limit on spending, or it will have very few teams on the grid able to do anything other than be the support act for one or two teams.
      You cannot use the word integrity, and F1 in the same sentence then allege that any team given the chance would do the same. Historically, Ferrari have allways been about themselves, the only thing they wanted a veto for was to gain an advantage, FOTA is just another way of using the other teams to try and gain an advantage over Max, and Bernie, as for ‘two tier’, F1 has allways been a multi tier championship, traditionally those with the most cash, are at the front, those with less, in the middle, those with much less at the back, Ferrari with a veto, AND £55 million extra from Bernie, have, up until now, done very nicely thank you.

    3. Ferrari didn’t have to accept the veto, they could have been genuine and honest, said ‘that is not in the interest of fairness in our sport’ and walked away.

      But they didn’t… which is exactly what you would expect Ferrari to do, because that’s what Ferrari do.

    4. Maybe DM likes to run his own company & not be told how to do it & how much to spend by interfering F1 dictators?

    5. Vetogate?
      Did you read Mario Theissen`s comments in the Press Conference?
      If not, I`ll paste the relevant part below:
      Q: (Richard Williams – The Guardian) Question to Frank and Mario: in the recent days it’s emerged that Ferrari have appeared to have a right of unilateral veto over changes to the technical regulations in Formula One. Was this a surprise to either of you, had you known about it all along, do you think it’s the right thing to happen, that a team should be granted such rights?
      FW: I’ll listen to Mario’s answer first.
      MT: When FOTA was founded, we very quickly touched on the issue of the different positions of the individual teams. It was clear that the individual teams have different contracts with the FOA and we all accepted that. We knew about it and we said that everything that is in place is as it is and we deal with it and accept it as it is. In my view what Ferrari does now is in the interest of FOTA because they use the possibility to make the position of FOTA clear.
      FW: Well, it’s a difficult subject to answer because a lawyer might say that this is a question that goes above the FIA to another international body but keeping it within the sport is probably not the best of the events. I think many of us thought it mainly made a commercial advantage and that would be what they deserve but given Ferrari’s longevity in the sport and being its backbone, it hasn’t caused any ruffled feathers or waves until now.

    6. Frank Williams also quietly said that he was aware of a deal struck in 2005, no mention was made of the preceding 7 years, It stuck me as interesting that the teams would show this kind of unity, prior to their meeting with Max. Later, an interview with Patrick Head, brought the comment that ‘ only 2 teams are staunchly against a budget cap, those teams being Ferrari, and Toyota’ Personally I think that Ferrari should stay, it would be a poorer show without them, but they are acting irrationally, at the moment, if they took it on the chin, and got on with it, a lot of respect would go their way. Really though, this is all posturing, looking for leverage prior to negotiation, Ferrari need F1, maybe F1 needs Ferrari. Ferrari has always found favour, and fortune in F1, Toyota on the other hand, arguably the worlds largest car manufacturer, has had little success despite their huge resources, so maybe they are looking for a way out.

  6. Man that paul Jackson is crazy. Does he think that the fans are really too stupid to tell apart GP2 and F1? And was he really saying that manufacturer teams have a history of “dabbling” in formula one but never being very succesful? This does not bode well.

  7. How’s the prat from isport what does he think the racing world is waiting for him just to turn up like it’s his right and he’s going to show them how it’s done.He should talk to paul stoddart see what he’s up to at the moment.
    As for the breakaway they need at least two more teams or they will just swatted and end up worse than they are now. LUCA isn’t dumb i hope he comes to the table with more than promises.Fiat & Toyota have serious money that’s what these teams will understand if you show them more than the get now they will roll over.

  8. What a irony!

    Ferrari blew up breakaway planned by the GPMA a couple of years ago by accepting a 80 million bribe from Ecclestone to sign the new Concorde Agreement and now Ferrari wants to break away from them.

    To be honest a compromise is the only thing that can work.

    Spending hundreds of millions of euros every year isn’t something most teams can afford (anymore). Toyota and Mercedes already lost billions last quarter alone. Toyota probably won’t be in F1 next year anyway if I must believe the rumours about the cuts they are planning to make to the company.

    The proposed budgetcap is too low for some teams, just because it is nearly impossible to reduce a company to a tenth of it’s original budget in years.

    A breakaway won’t help either because it will reduce the popularity of both series at least by half.

    And the greatest irony is that Mosley hadn’t planned a budgetcap (yet) for the existing teams, but only for new teams. Just because some existing teams would comply to the budgetcap forced Mosley to enforce a budgetcap for all teams (to prevent the capped teams a technological advantage).

    1. And the greatest irony is that Mosley hadn’t planned a budgetcap (yet) for the existing teams, but only for new teams.

      Not quite right that. The budget cap covers all teams registering for 2010.

    2. or to put it more plainly. The budget cap or `race` with an elephant tied to your rear wing option on the technical regs.

  9. I really want F1 to go back to the structure of being full of pure racing teams. Teams who build specialist racing cars (like Williams, Jordan, McLaren), and then they buy an nice fast engine from a sporty car manufacturer (Ferrari, Porsche, Audi). Keeps it nice and simple, and much cheaper. No big car companies with their board meetings to throw their weight around, and only being in the sport when it’s going good for them.

  10. In the first article it mentions the rebel three and the other seven teams but does Red Bull not also include Torro Rosso in these negotiations? So it should be the rebel four.

    1. That’s what I was thinking, too. It’s especially interesting since Toro Rosso is powered by Ferrari.

      With Williams being powered by Toyota, this puts them in an unfortunate place, too. Williams seem to like the budget cap, but they could end up with the added difficulty of making an engine change over the off-season.

      This whole thing is just a mess – I hope things go well this afternoon on Flavio’s boat. If anything, F1 should look to the IRL/CART fiasco of 1995 and learn from that. Perhaps, Max could talk to Tony George for a few pointers…

  11. 2 things:

    In fairness to the iSport guy, back in the 60’s the Formula 1 formula changed to essentially Formula 2 specs by dropping engine size to 1.5 litres. Lasted for 5 years too so he does have history on his side, they did more or less what he said and F1 didn’t die out.

    Secondly, Mark Webber’s bad luck strikes again. Finally in a competitive team and now they’re on the verge of pulling out!

    1. And before anyone says about the obvious thing that there wouldn’t be any of the teams from F1, I’m sure you’d see Williams, Brawn, maybe McLaren, Force India start GP2/F1 teams as they exist solely for racing in F1.

      I’m not completely agreeing with him, but a lot of people would follow it just because it is Formula 1.

  12. I see Rosberg is early with the excuses this weekend.

  13. Bigbadderboom
    22nd May 2009, 14:01

    More posturing, but the three (or 4) wanna breakaways have different agendas, Ferrari are (as always) looking to strengthen their bargaining power, Toyota are looking for excuses (as already said here by Sasquatsch), I think unless the car market improves we may loose Toyota anyway. Red Bull is a strange one but it does have an affinity with Ferrari and may be simply networking knowing that a truce with FOM and the FIA is enevitable. Once blown over Red Bull may have a powerful allie in Ferrari.
    I always think that any press for F1 is good press, nobody promotes their concern better than Bernie, but his nervousness, and inability to give his normal assurances is spreading concern amongst F1’s fans, the coverage I think is turning negative for the sport. For me this will only all be worthwhile if the governance of the sport is sorted once and for all, and the power in the sport shifts away from the FIA.
    However I can’t see Ferrai emerging from this without sustaining damage to their public image. I know some fanatical Ferrari fans who have expressed real dissapointment in their team.

    By the way arn’t McLaren quiet….LOL (For Sure)

  14. Bigbadderboom
    22nd May 2009, 15:36

    Now Bernie has started threatening the teass……Oh dear Bernie this smells of desperation to me!!!


    1. I agree Bernie is sounding very desperate, using schoolyard tactics.
      I mean hasn’t the concorde agreement expired, hence the reason ecclestone keeps saying the teams need to sign the new agreement. And he keeps saying he won’t pay the teams more because they haven’t signed.

      You can’t have it both ways Bernie.

  15. Things are really heating up.



    Oh and yes most fans will notice half-baked solutions racing in Formula 1.

    iSport’s Paul Jackson comments are an insult to any F1 Fan.

  16. Bigbadderboom
    22nd May 2009, 18:29

    Off topic a bit but just read the spanish banking giant Santander is sponsoring Ferrari from 2010.

    Difficult if there is no Ferrari in F1

    Is this support for Alonso, is Kimi off!!!

    1. That was announced last year, Bigbadderboom

      @ sasbus – The BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8064314.stm

      There are others saying this but, having listened to Luca di Montezemolo, I`m not sure that`s exactly what he`s saying. It would be a good thing, though. The farting around has gone on long enough.

  17. Bigbadderboom
    22nd May 2009, 19:18

    oops must have missed that somehow!!!!

    1. Easily done with F1 news.

      Incidentally, Mosley meeting ended about 7.45pm. Another FOTA meeting tomorrow. Things are said to “look promising”.

      Persempre for CNN (Clearly Not Normal), from Keyboard.

  18. i not download game formula 1 please

  19. HounslowBusGarage
    22nd May 2009, 22:42

    I’m sorry Persempre, Sean and others, but I disagree.
    I don’t think your average ‘occasional’ fan would notice at all if GP2 became F1.
    After all We, The Hardcore Fans, have got used to the funny-looking 2009 cars pretty quickly, and who can really say they miss the Jaguar team? we live for the race of the moment, not in last season or the one before.
    Your average TV based F1 fan hasn’t a clue about the technicalities, the teams or even the drivers involved. If pushed, they might recognise Ferrari, Lewis Hamilton and Max, but that would be about as far as it goes.
    But these are the millions – billions – worldwide that Bernie is reliant upon for his TV audience. As long as it looks fast and glamourous and there’s the occasional crash, they will love it.
    And I think Paul Jackson has it about right.

    1. You aren`t disagreeing with me, HounslowBusGarage.
      While most of Joe Public may not understand the intricacies of F1, it`s a bit patronising of Jackson to say so before he even gets into the sport.
      If he`s that derisive of F1 fans` mental abilities &, apparently, doesn`t feel the need to help educate & enthuse I wonder what his motivation is.
      His statement had a “let them eat cake” ring to it which I found very distasteful.

  20. HounslowBusGarage
    25th May 2009, 20:57

    Yes, I understand your point.
    And I appreciate the ‘let them eat cake’ idea. Probably matched with ‘bread and circuses’ concept, and I think that’s the point as far as Max is concerned: bring new teams to the sport and no one will notice which teams have left.
    Perhaps though Jackson was responding to a ‘Do you think you’re good enough?’ type question. And his reply was based on the ‘The masses wouldn’t notice if we weren’t’ reply.

Comments are closed.