The FIA’s decision to approve Andretti’s entry into Formula 1 has done little to persuade existing teams the grid should be expanded.
Ferrari team principal Frederic Vasseur spoke for several of his peers when he said he did not support adding an 11th entry unless it massively increased the value of the championship.Williams team principal James Vowles said they are very strongly against expanding the grid because they are not yet financially stable.
The FIA announced on Monday it had chosen Andretti as the sole successful applicant having invited potential new teams to submit entries in February. Andretti, who bring the backing of General Motors brand Cadillac, now has to agree commercial terms with Formula One Management.
However the majority of existing team bosses have previously made it clear they do not want to see the grid grow beyond its current 20 cars. Speaking in response to the FIA’s announcement Vowles said today that expanding the grid, which would mean dividing the prize money between more teams, presented an unacceptable financial risk.
“Williams is against the addition of an 11th team, and very strongly against,” he explained. “My responsibility is to 900 employees within my company. If you go and look at Companies House – you can go and look it up for Williams, we’ve submitted it now – you’ll see that we’re lossy. We’re very lossy.
“In fact, compare it from ’21 to ’22, you’ll see the losses are in the tens of millions more. Compare it to ’23, which you won’t see but I’ll guarantee you, it’s multiples above that.
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“The reason why is we’re investing in the sport to become better. We believe in where the sport is going, we believe in the direction of travel of the sport. In order to do that, the reason why is we actually have, I think, a sustainable entity for once. Teams are actually working more and more together, we have close racing as a result of things.
“But it should be known that this isn’t just us that are not financially stable, I’d say probably half the grid aren’t. I think the addition of an 11th team is a sensible thing, but only at the point where the 10th team on the grid is financially stable. I’m fortunate to have owners that really believe in what we’re doing and to invest in what we’re doing, but we need to take care as a sport to make sure we look after that.
“Everyone says we’re in a good place. We are in some regards, but now those facts down the line, that actually this is tens of millions – in fact, hundreds of millions you’ll see shortly – being invested to make the sport better. It becomes therefore clear why we’re very careful about diluting what we’ve already got, because it’s just more losses on the table.”
Adding another team would only be acceptable if doing so led to a significant increase in the value of the sport and therefore the income of all competitors, said Vowles. “We’ve been clear from the beginning, we’re more than happy to bring in new entities, but the pie has to grow as a result of it, not shrink, and so far it’s just shrinking.”
“That’s not against either Andretti or GM,” he added, “quite the opposite. I welcome GM open-armed and Williams welcomes GM open-armed. I hope to forge a relationship with them should things not work out. They are an incredible entity that I think will make the sport better.
“So it’s not that we’re closed-minded to more people coming to the sport, but what we’re very careful on is protecting the sport we have right now.”
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Ferrari’s Vasseur said he is “not a big fan” of expanding the grid. F1 has not added a new team since Ferrari customer Haas’ entry was approved in 2014. Vasseur said that was done “for a good reason” as “Renault was on the edge” of withdrawing from F1 at the time.
“It meant that we had only Mercedes and Ferrari confirmed for the future,” he said. “We opened the door to an 11th team in case they could bring something substantial to F1.”
Vasseur, who previously ran Sauber after it was rescued from financial trouble by its current owners, pointed out that several teams were in a vulnerable financial situation just a few years ago.
“All the teams on the grid, they made a big effort,” he said. “We have to keep in mind that three or four years ago we had almost half of the grid quite close to bankruptcy and we have to avoid being arrogant. In F1 life is a cycle – we don’t know what could happen before 2030. I think that we would put F1 in a tough situation for this.”
An 11th team would only be acceptable to Vasseur “if the new entry is bringing massive added value to the F1,” he said.
“I don’t [have] access to the dossier of Andretti, but I think the first question is what is the added value for F1?
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“We have already have a tenth team who is American with Haas. We have an American driver on the grid. The question for me is around this – what could be the add value?”
But Peter Bayer, who was the FIA’s secretary general of sport for five years before joining AlphaTauri as CEO earlier this season, is confident the governing body has done a diligent job of studying Andretti’s lengthy application.
“I think we have to remember that the FIA, when they kicked the process off, it was to be expected that one team might actually be chosen,” he said. “Because, as far as I remember, the regulator is purely doing a technical analysis of the finances and I think they’ve done a very thorough job on that, without knowing the dossier of Andretti.
“You can compare that to the tyre tender – you have companies applying to supply tyres and then the FIA will do the check on whether they can supply tyres.
“But then I think that’s the big step ahead, now, it’s handed over to Formula 1 to see how to integrate this team into the grid on a commercial basis.”
However he admitted the potential impact of adding an 11th team on the financial situation of the existing competitors must be taken into consideration.
“I remember before the cost cap was introduced, we had three team owners who actually called us and we had discussions back then that they can’t sustain this sort of investment any longer. We had [Force India] going into administration in 2018. So I think that needs to be kept in mind really and I would probably follow my colleagues.”
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Prab
6th October 2023, 17:50
Surprise, surprise.
Jimmy Cliff
6th October 2023, 18:02
What is the added value of Haas or Alpha Tauri or Alfa Romeo?
Did anyone ever question the quality or value add of Haas when they joined 7 years ago – I believe everyone was REALLY happy as the # of cars on the grid were dropping quickly from 26 down to 20 which would have been 18 without Haas and could have gone down lower if not for Liberty Media and Budget Cap and DTS and 2021 season.
Also none of the teams created the value they now very much enjoy – the teams did nothing different and initially very much objected to much of the changes that now created the value like budget cap.
The teams are like a couple of clueless explorers that for years screamed HELP HELP us find a diamant mine – Liberty comes is and guides the helpless teams to a diamant mine and as soon as the teams see the diamant they are all like Golumn “Precious – Precious” and don’t want any new teams help them to operate the diamant mine all to afraid they lose a little bit of share of money they previously never had while the new team might result in finding more/bigger diamant mines.
Tristan
6th October 2023, 23:29
I like that analogy… Very true.
What really gets me is for years, if not decades F1 has been clamouring for more manufacturers, and now they get a team with potential GM ties and they’re snubbing it, like what?
(That being said I wouldnt trust GM as far as I could throw them, maybe that’s why.)
Nick T.
7th October 2023, 8:09
Best I’ve ever seen it put. I think I’ll quote you.
Armchair Expert (@armchairexpert)
6th October 2023, 18:09
What is the value of Haas and Sargeant? That they play as clowns in F1 circus?
Also, eat the rich. It’s not like money Andretti would “steal” from the pie goes to mechanics or engineers, because their salaries can’t be really changed due to budget cap. It goes to team bosses and owners, who are all multimillionaires and billionaires, but of course that’s not enough, it never is! They need even more to look down on peasants with their absurd wealth.
Yellow Baron
7th October 2023, 15:56
Isn’t the Haas team about as American as french fries?
Edvaldo
6th October 2023, 18:22
Pathetic.
Steve
6th October 2023, 18:27
And we have 5 English teams and 4 continental European teams, many of which have consistently struggled to justify their own existences and value adds. Is he really just saying the quiet part out loud that the current members of the cartel aren’t required to substantiate their value, but any new members must?
Facts&Stats
6th October 2023, 21:31
If Haas is American then I wonder if we have five English teams.
RBR should be counted as Austrian, and Mercedes as German.
Gerrit
6th October 2023, 19:04
The “quality” excuse again. Insufferable fools.
What is being asked from a new entrant is that they build a F1 car with a completed engine package, test and benchmark it against an yet to be established standard and then MAY (and it is a big MAY) we will let you play in our sandpit.
An hugely financial improbability as the new entrant would need many many many millions to complete a “demonstrator” car with no guarantee of a reward.
Bullfrog (@bullfrog)
6th October 2023, 19:13
There’s only one quality team, according to the timing screens all season long…
Justin (@vivagilles27)
7th October 2023, 6:06
It seems Haas pulled it off. Andretti is proposing running the Renault.
Justin (@vivagilles27)
7th October 2023, 6:22
I think Andretti is wishing he took that Sauber deal. I love that the cap has come in and that teams can all be on a more relative pitch, but letting the teams decide on expansion is a fools errand. The FIA was king but the commercial holders clearly run things now.
Rom
6th October 2023, 19:07
If too many American teams is an issue then how about half of the field having their factories being in England? Fia should correct this if too many teams in one country is a problem.
Move Red Bull to Austria, Alpine to France and Mercedes back to Germany where they originate from. Also bring Mclaren all the way to New Zealand to honor their founder.
Jim from US (@jimfromus)
6th October 2023, 19:29
Population of all Europe is 750m. Population of US is 330m. So the US is short 2 or 3 teams.
SteveP
6th October 2023, 20:17
Like nominating the “best” internation language by the total number that speak it, the argument of population numbers is a really awful yardstick.
Basically, that puts ia big portion of the planetary population in the position of wondering why the Europeans and the Yanks think they should deny China a majority of the grid slots.
bosyber (@bosyber)
7th October 2023, 15:30
India since this year, I think, but good point on the level of reasoning @jimfromus
Sham (@sham)
6th October 2023, 20:01
There are things the teams should have a say on – who their competitors are is not one of them.
asd
6th October 2023, 20:30
Agreed. This whole situation is absurd.
It should not be called F1 World Constructors Championship since there is nothing “world” about it. It’s a tiny Championship within a small closed off group of constructors and goes nowhere beyond it.
Zann (@zann)
6th October 2023, 20:03
It’s about pies isn’t it. If they want a slice, they have to make the pie bigger, so that the other slices don’t get smaller! Tres simple mes amis! So, how would Andretti be doing that?
It sounds like Cadillac/ GM can get in with Williams, Alex Palou is actually Spanish, we’ve got 3 US races and Logan. Who’d be buying subscriptions or advertising to see Michael Andretti on their screen? He is not Mario
SjaakFoo (@sjaakfoo)
6th October 2023, 20:17
I don’t think Ferrari’s b-team counts as American.
FlyingLap (@flyinglapp)
6th October 2023, 20:22
It’s like asking Djokovic and Nadal if they’d allow Alcaraz to play in the majors. It shouldn’t be the competitors’ call.
Unicron (@unicron2002)
6th October 2023, 20:28
‘…we’re lossy. We’re very lossy’
This is crazy talk. Lossy?! A new one on me.
FlyingLap (@flyinglapp)
6th October 2023, 20:34
I’ve seen it used in entrepreneurial jargon, but lossy is usually means image degradation due to data loss.
Nick T.
7th October 2023, 8:14
We’re buzzwordy! Very buzzywordy!
Vowles, amazingly, found a way to take me from really liking him to really disliking him with a single comment.
Sam
6th October 2023, 21:11
What could an 11th team bring? More racing, more opportunities for talent to get a race seat. Unless the finances of the bid entail two pay drivers then an 11th team has a lot to bring.
ppzzus (@ppzzus)
6th October 2023, 21:25
“f1 is in the best place its ever been”
“well jk actually half the grid is on the verge of collapsing”
Dex
6th October 2023, 21:35
Bunch of losers, ironically having jobs in F1. This deserves huge, massive booing.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
6th October 2023, 23:07
Indeed, and we’re close to the us grand prix, hopefully some bad PR out of this unless they let andretti in.
Nick T.
7th October 2023, 8:12
BOOOOOOOOOOO!
BTW, couldn’t agree more.
AJ
6th October 2023, 22:08
Every team’s business model theoretically only wants their cars to be the entire championship. Anything to the contrary of that is shunned.
DaveW (@dmw)
6th October 2023, 22:11
AppleTV will pay far more if Andretti is on the grid. It will be enough for the blackmail requested by the existing teams.
It’s quite lame to hear Williams say they are losing piles of money already so protect them from competition. Maybe they should give up their slot to Andretti if they are so bad at being an F1 team and let them have a go.
Nick T.
7th October 2023, 8:16
The Williams sucks argument isn’t really valid anymore since they’re clearly much better then Haas and solidly better than Sauber. However, I hate Vowles’ comments too.
chimaera2003 (@chimaera2003)
6th October 2023, 22:47
It’s a shame that neither Chip Ganassi or Penske are in the same position instead, clearly much better run teams that I would have greater confidence in giving this a real go!! Or maybe they did have a look and decided it wouldn’t work for them.
Even with Andretti, not sure if they are going to really dilute the sporting spectacle, there are plenty of current teams who look like they are just making up the numbers rather than really ‘adding value’. I’m sure if the same yardstick was applied to them that they are trying to apply to Andretti then they would also come up short but they aren’t about to voluntarily leave or sell up.
Clearly this is a business decision but I’m not sure the value of F1 is going up much further if we get too many more years like 2023 with the cost cap effectively curtailing the chasers from quickly catching up just leaving major technical reg chnages to potentially mix up the pecking order for a short while. Therefore, in the absence of a close championship the teams should consider other avenues to increase eyeballs and value.
grat
6th October 2023, 23:10
Well, if they’re concerned about financial viability, and 11 teams is too many… obviously, 9 teams would be more profitable than 10.
So who’s the first team to get booted out?
Tristan
6th October 2023, 23:22
Doesn’t the anti-dilution rule make his entire point null and void? Wouldn’t that be a question to be asked?
If the issue is all about supposed finances a handy $20m each is what they agreed to. Sure Williams is investing more than that currently, but that’s a Williams problem, not an Andretti one.
If he can’t see a name like Andretti and GM bringing any value to F1 and increasing eyeballs, nothing ever will…
Really, F1 is in for a bit of a shock I think unless there’s more manufactured drama on the horizon soon to bring the engagement numbers back up to their height of the HamVer fight.
Doing *nothing* at this point and keeping the status quo will not improve things.
Antz (@antznz)
6th October 2023, 23:26
Is this all posturing by the teams to get a revised and more favourable ammendment to the concorde agreement?
Frankly, the teams behaviour is despicable from where I stand. Andretti is good for fans and good for F1, so I really hope it is posturing to try and manipulate LM to a better deal when Andretti is on the grid. From an outsiders perspective, it’s very hard to have a favourite team right now.
I’ve really enjoyed this season but everything about this weekend feels pretty crap.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
7th October 2023, 8:11
Agree with most, except I don’t see how you enjoyed this season, which was incredibly dominant. This was one of the worst seasons imo, while there are 4 teams in the fight for best of the rest, it’s just a minor accolade.
MichaelN
7th October 2023, 1:02
If these teams are so against a new entry because they fear it will make their own teams less valuable… how about taking some of the current also-rans behind the paddock and… adding some value?
They can start with Red Bull’s test cars, move on to the team with the Russian flags, and then maybe add Dorilton GP and also Sauber if Audi’s not really feeling it after all.
Just imagine how valuable a six team grid would be! They’ll all be rich! Or, well, even richer.
These people…
Maciek (@maciek)
7th October 2023, 1:57
Massive stupidity. All other arguments aside – and there are many – if you can’t see what the Andretti and Cadillac names would bring to F1 in terms of American public interest, you’re either ignorantly blind or wilfully so.
Justin (@vivagilles27)
7th October 2023, 6:24
I think Andretti is wishing he took that Sauber deal. I love that the cap has come in and that teams can all be on a more relative pitch, but letting the teams decide on expansion is a fools errand. The FIA was king but the commercial holders clearly run things now.