Mercedes drivers Lewis Hamilton and George Russell have called for changes to how Formula 1 applies its track limits regulations.
A total of 22 lap times – 13 of which were representative flying laps – were deleted during Friday’s qualifying session for Sunday’s Qatar Grand Prix.McLaren Lando Norris and Oscar Piastri had their final lap times struck off well after the chequered flag flew. Those infringements promoted Russell and Hamilton up into second and third, respectively, for Sunday’s grand prix grid.
Russell did not exceed the track limits once in the session. He was also one of only two drivers to complete the Austrian grand prix in July without recording one of the 82 track limits strikes which were recorded by his rivals over the course of the race.
Asked by RaceFans what he was doing to avoid falling foul of the rules compared to his rivals, Russell admitted it was “very challenging” to keep within the white lines.
“You’ve got to be very, very precise – we’re talking sort of millimetres sometimes,” Russell said. “I’ve had no track limits, but two races ago [in Singapore] I crashed into the wall and lost the podium.
“Definitely it’s a bit frustrating when we go to great circuits like this – this is a really great circuit – but then it’s so difficult to know where that limit is, where the edge is and we need to find a better solution for the future.”
Before the race weekend began several drivers noted the steep kerbs at the Losail International Circuit had the potential to damage cars due to the height difference between the track and the top of the kerbs – as much as five centimetres in some corners.
However pole winner Max Verstappen said the aggressive kerbs were a good deterrent for drivers to stay within the limits of the track. “It’s tough, it’s always tough, honestly,” he said. “It’s easy to go just over it.
Advert | Become a RaceFans supporter and
“I do think these kerbs are a little bit better. I don’t think people who went wide actually gained time, it’s just a bit annoying because if you go a little bit wider you bottom out and you damage your floor potentially and you definitely lose time. So I think that has been already a big positive compared to the last time that we were here.
“I would always prefer to see that kind of style of racing. But of course some places we share with bikes and they like a bit more run-off. We always have to try and find a compromise, but sometimes it hurts them, sometimes it hurts us a little bit more.”
Hamilton also voiced his approval for the Qatar kerbs and suggested the circuit should not have the same track limits rules applied to it as other venues, stating that “Lando should be up here” rather than him.
“I think these kerbs are great,” Hamilton said. “When I went around the track yesterday on the scooter, I thought the kerbs looked quite big, but I think they’re actually really good.
“As Max said, I think when you go beyond the highest point of the kerb, you lose time. I don’t feel like at this track we need to have track limits. It’s something that the new [race director] brought in a couple of years ago.
“I think we need to maybe take these kerbs as a good learning. We can take these kerbs to a bunch of other tracks because obviously Moto GP are fine with these kerbs and we can have these in like Austria, for example. As I said, when you go beyond them you should be able to utilise as much as possible, but when you go beyond them, you lose time. So it shouldn’t be the white line necessarily. But anyway, it’s not for me to decide.”
Advert | Become a RaceFans supporter and
2023 Qatar Grand Prix
- Albon fears Qatar GP conditions risked creating dangerous “wet bulb effect”
- Alonso: New-spec fireproofs and pre-race anthem timing made Qatar heat worse
- Magnussen admits he took “too long to learn” Losail circuit
- Analysis: Sargeant’s Qatar radio reveals his painful struggle to end point-less run
- Alfa Romeo ‘finally understand their upgrade’ Bottas believes as team target Williams
Nick T.
7th October 2023, 8:19
He shouldn’t be. He made a mistake and is now paying the price. All this whining because “he should be here.” Laughable.
lucifer (@lucifer)
7th October 2023, 9:00
+1
ryanoceros (@ryanoceros)
7th October 2023, 9:20
I guess you didn’t read the article.
Nick T.
7th October 2023, 12:04
I did. Why should it alter my response?
Dex
7th October 2023, 13:22
Nonsense. Why would you think that he didn’t? Rules are the rules, and there were such rules for that session and this weekend. Norris knew what he can and cannot do, he didn’t keep it within limits and that’s final. Otherwise other drivers would be penalized for driving a bit better or a bit slower, so they keep the car where it was supposed to be.
On the other hand, that doesn’t mean that Hamilton is not right and that they could get rid of the white lines if these kerbs can do the job. But that’s for the future, you can’t change things retroactively, that’s never fair. To put it simply – Norris failed. Many others didn’t. That’s why he doesn’t deserve to be in front of them. Such were the rules, stupid or not. It can only serve as a lesson for the future rules.
Rom
7th October 2023, 8:40
Norris should be there but isn’t due to his poor judgement of track limits. If it were a track with grass, gravel or a wall which showed the limit we would not be having this conversation.
SteveP
7th October 2023, 8:41
It’s laughable when the guys that benefit from someone being penalised say the penalty isn’t right?
Sorry, but I feel that their opinion is worth a 1000 times yours. (I may have undervalued the comments from George and Lewis there)
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
7th October 2023, 21:24
Yes, agree with this.
S
7th October 2023, 9:14
Ultimately, we want to see this stuff happening. F1 needs that jeopardy – that calculated risk-taking.
The consequences for breaches of the rules should be significant – not only to serve as a deterrent to further breaches, but also to increase the relative reward for getting it right.
Russell has shown, yet again, that it is entirely possible to stay between the lines and achieve a good result. He is most certainly not the only driver in F1 capable of it.
I will never buy into any excuse that they can’t see the lines as being a justification for leaving the circuit, as the edge of the track is exactly what they are always aiming for at every corner sequence.
They know exactly where the limit is – they just typically don’t have enough respect for it.
baasbas
7th October 2023, 9:35
White lines and track limits… *sigh*
Here we go again. The way it currently is designed (the rule, the runoff, the line) means some or a lot of times will be deleted.
Lots of variables have influence on the car being one inch in or out of bounds. A slight change of the wind, a bit of turbulent air from another car, a degree change in track temperature, a degree change in tire temperature.. and most of these are beyond the drivers control.
Going as wide as you can yields time. Don’t take the risk in those corners? Sure, then you’re ten places down the grid..
To extract the optimum time one needs to be on the knifes edge so they NEED to play dice with the line. As a driver you know you have a couple of tries in the session and you know some variables beyond your control will lead to some laps being deleted. It’s a matter of hoping your best ones stick. The current playing chicken with a line has too much luck involved imho.
For me that is not satisfying to watch. If I see a good time pop up on the boards I want to cheer for it. But you can’t know if it will stay there. Some are gone quickly, some stay on the board for a while.. as a viewer it’s unclear what you’re looking at. The drivers don’t want it and I think the viewers should also not want it.
A natural deterrent as they discussed is preferable. Go a bit over the limit and the driver will lose time. Maybe kick up some dust in the process, looks good on tv also. But you can complete your lap and even with the time lost it could still be a good one. When grass and gravel is not an option, maybe this kerb is. They seem happy with it.
It makes for a more satisfying viewing experience. No more policing needed
baasbas
7th October 2023, 9:37
tl;dr
The problem is: going wide yields time
Fix that and all track limit issues are gone.
And don’t claim it’s a skill issue, it’s too much of a luck issue.
Stewart
8th October 2023, 17:33
I agree with you, bearing in mind that the drivers can’t see the white line from the driving seat, they have to guess it, and a lot depends on the tyres, dust and wind.
I am not surprised by the number of deleted laps, as I expected there to be lots more after watching Friday’s Qually session.
As to the comment about “Norris shoulda been here”, NO he shouldn’t …. even he admits it was his fault, and he happens to be the driver I support the most.
Even the vaunted 3 time WC had his issues, but then it wasn’t his fault as he doesn’t make mistakes according to his devotees. There were a lot more drivers who fell foul of the TL rule, and quite a few of them by a tiny margin. But at those speeds it means that a matter of a couple of inches wide when you’re driving at those speeds takes you down to another level of attention than normal.
It literally sorts the Champs from the rest!
baasbas
9th October 2023, 14:49
@Stewart
In case of ‘Norris should have been here’, I agree with you, no he shouldn’t. That’s for the simple reason that at the moment we have this solution to the track limit issues. The part about him admitting it was his fault, there is I think more to it. He was berating his own performance when the time sheets still had him in P2. He admitted fault even before he knew it ultimately didn’t matter because he’d lose the lap anyway. Still.. he failed the current rule. I just don’t like the rule..
I think the race maybe highlighted some of what I find problematic with it. SO many violations and multiple penalties even. According to Peter Windsor there was only 1 driver with zero track limit violations: Verstappen. This race for him was about managing the gap to McLaren. They were pushing, according to them. But all Verstappen had to do was just enough to stay ahead. That allowed him to not have to push flat out all the time and therefore no track limit violations. As opposed to quali, where he did have to push and he also crossed the line. It’s simple. When they have to push they’ll be on the knife’s edge and with variety in wind/grip/temps/etc they’ll sometimes be over the limit. I like the fact when drivers are pushing, I don’t like watching times pop-up and go down all the time.
Sure, some drivers will be slightly better than others at the track limits gamble game, some cars are more wicked to drive on the edge than others, but all in all, I don’t like the game. Which is irritating because I feel the solution is straightforward
Nick T.
7th October 2023, 12:07
I’d rather have no track limits at all, but when there are, you can’t reward a driver when they violate the rules and gain more time. Not saying you’re implying that.
baasbas
7th October 2023, 12:25
Thanks for the nuanced reply (feels weird that it is needed to say this these days)
I likewise understand they can’t fix it right now for this race so we’re kind of stuck with it. I feel they painted themselves into a corner with this one.
Paul (@frankjaeger)
7th October 2023, 9:52
Drive within the lines and you won’t get lap deleted, simple. Lando or Oscar shouldn’t have kept their times, and I’m a massive Mclaren fan. I was pleased with the action taken by stewards as it isn’t ambiguous anymore, just black and white.
baasbas
7th October 2023, 10:01
@frankjaeger
These comments… just stay within the line, it’s simple
These are the best of the best drivers out there, with the best training, the best simulators, the best cars and best teams of people around them, doing this professionally since they were born basically. As clearly demonstrated here and Austria for that matter: they can’t.
So no, it’s not simple
S
7th October 2023, 10:14
Not can’t – don’t.
They all can – and you explained exactly how they can do it above: Take less risk.
What you don’t like is when they (the supposed “best of the best drivers”) get it wrong – primarily because they risked too much. They didn’t leave any margin for error, and were rightly punished for it.
baasbas
9th October 2023, 15:06
@S
No I disagree, they don’t because they can’t. We have to distinguish between a big mistake, like going really wide, missing a breaking point or something.. and the small infringement where you need the slow-mo replay to spot it.
We differ in views because it seems you approach any crossing the line as a mistake from the driver. Where I think that in the cases of the small infringements it is as much about luck. At least too much luck to make it a skill issue.
Now technically they can stay within the rules all the time by not going near the line. They can’t when they have to push like in quali because some laps will count and some won’t. When you’re in Q3 and you send it through a corner right on the edge and let’s say you have a 50/50 of making it stick, combined with the fact you’ll have 4 tries in the session.. it’s possible to make 2 laps stick and 2 being deleted. When other drivers you’re competing with are taking these odds, you also have to. Therefore you can’t not throw the dice. And saying they can if they just slow down is being pedantic imho.
And therefore as a viewer we end up with an unpleasant quali session where we constantly see a great lap and we don’t know if we can cheer for it because it might be deleted 5 minutes later.. Or we see a race result changed 5 hours after the actual race like in Austria
baasbas
7th October 2023, 10:15
Since I’m already venting, let’s add this before someone says: but when there’s a barrier or a wall they CAN !!1!
No they still can’t. Even though on a street track a big influence/corner-randomizer like wind and gusts are either missing or greatly reduced, they’re still all over the barriers. Grazing them, tapping them.
A barrier is funny enough a ‘softer’ track limits deterrent than just a white line on a parking lot with a camera on it
Stewart
8th October 2023, 17:35
+1 ditto
asd
7th October 2023, 10:39
Tracks limits is one of the stupidest concepts ever in F1. I had been watching F1 for 30 years and never saw a single track limit violation. Now it’s like a diesease, a new element in the sport that adds no positive value to it, but instead turns a racing track into a game board full of arbitrary meanings and conventions. I hate it.
S
7th October 2023, 11:46
If you’ve been watching that long, you’d have seen hundreds (perhaps thousands) of them.
They just weren’t punished in the past.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
7th October 2023, 21:40
Was better imo, I saw spa 1989 recently, a full wet race, and in the last few laps mansell kept going wide at “la source” (if that’s the way to say it in english, as we say la in italian, not sure if it changes in this particular case) to try and carry more speed into eau rouge to try and overtake prost, but wasn’t successful in the end.
In the interviews he said something like, that’s what the track is for, to be used!
I know they said lately that outside the white line isn’t part of the track, but I don’t like these track limits, I prefer kerbs that make you lose time if you go too wide, like hamilton said.
S
8th October 2023, 11:49
If I remember correctly, the defined edge of the track at Spa’s first corner back then was beside the wall. That’s why they used that area, even though it was car-dependent as to whether it was actually faster or slower.
It’s not uncommon in the wet to stay as far away from the ‘normal’ racing line as possible.
Jim from US (@jimfromus)
7th October 2023, 13:08
Then these drivers won’t mind other drivers leaving the track and passing them. The track limits define the track. The race is contested on the track. Lando and the other drivers are in the position they earned on the track.
Jim from US (@jimfromus)
7th October 2023, 14:28
I’ll take it futher. Without track limits, there is no, the other driver didn’t leave me space and the other driver pushed me off the track. I lose a little respect for these drivers every time they say something like this. RUS was calling for VER to be penalized for stopping in the pit exit a few races ago. I completely agree. Yet, yesterday, RUS pulls into the pit exit and stops his car. I’m sure he would have been apoplectic if he got a penalty.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
7th October 2023, 21:42
Ofc, I would’ve been too, if a driver does something questionable and gets no penalty, the precedent is set, it’s not fair to penalise someone else for the same thing then.
Electroball76
7th October 2023, 14:17
Just deduct 1 point from the driver every time they break the rules. They’d soon clean up their racing lines.
mzs16 (@mzs16)
7th October 2023, 14:19
Why do we need kerbs that are wider than a race car?
Why can’t gravel strips be put down beyond kerbs for F1 races only and be covered up for bikes?
Or why are there even kerbs at all in some corners?
Or are these solutions just too simple for the pinnacle of motorsport?
Jim from US (@jimfromus)
7th October 2023, 14:30
On some US roadways we have rumble strips that shake the car to warn you that you are about to go off the road, these kerbs are the same type of warning.
BasCB (@bascb)
7th October 2023, 19:39
I get what they say. And I disagree. Where I do agree is that the track limits playing up, especially to the level is has here both on friday and on saturday in qualifying but also in the sprint.
They really should do better with coming up with how to do the track limits, kerbing, gravel traps etc. to prevent this.
Stewart
8th October 2023, 18:03
I think that if they are going to keep the painted line in races, they should at least make them the same as those on British Motorways, with grooves in the line so you can feel & hear it through the wheels vibrating, at least then the drivers will know when they’ve gone over it, saving tyres and fuel instead of keeping on with the rest of their fast lap.