During 2017, the year Liberty Media took over Formula 1, Red Bull team principal Christian Horner was asked for his view on introducing reverse grid races.
“I hate that idea,” he replied. “I think the grand prix is the big event on a Sunday afternoon. Anything gimmicky around that is just WWF, to be honest with you.”For many in F1, reverse grids represent a shift away from the sport of racing towards becoming a scripted, made-for-TV entertainment product. World Wrestling Entertainment (formerly the World Wrestling Federation) has long been the most famous example of this.
“I saw a comment from Toto Wolff on this one,” said Sergio Perez in 2020 when asked about reverse grids. “He said that Formula 1 is not WWE. And I agree.”
Liberty’s attempts to introduce reverse grid sprint races were thwarted repeatedly by opposition within F1. After its third bid failed in October 2020, amid opposition from several teams, it appeared to change tack: Sprint races were introduced for 2021, at just three rounds, and with the starting order decided by a qualifying session.
The mixed response to the sprint race format was captured in a survey Liberty Media ran in conjunction with another publication. From over 167,000 responses, 40% agreed sprint races “improved the show” while 34% disagreed.
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The same 2021 poll also revealed huge opposition to reverse grid races. Over two-thirds of respondents – 68% – disagreed they should be introduced, while those in favour were outnumbered by four to one. Reverse grids was an even less popular proposal than success ballast and awarding points for qualifying.
Our polls have yielded similar results. A clear majority of RaceFans readers have consistently told us they prefer the traditional grand prix format.
Nonetheless Domenicali has invariably characterised sprint races as being overwhelmingly popular. Since 2021 Liberty Media has conducted its own surveys through its F1 Fan Voice platform, so we can only rely on their own interpretations of their data on how attitudes have changed in the last two seasons.
Based on these numbers Liberty Media believes that attitudes to reverse grids have changed drastically, at least as far as sprint races are concerned. An F1 spokesperson told RaceFans their latest surveys show 59% support for reverse grid sprint races, rising to 76% among new F1 fans. As it is not clear how many people were surveyed, what question was asked or what responses were available to them, it’s impossible to tell whether this should be taken at face value.
The same goes for other conclusions Liberty has drawn from its surveys. They don’t see sufficient interest from fans in a separate sprint race championship, nor a desire to see the format extended beyond a limited number of races per year. They believe fans want to continue seeing points awarded for sprint races and see some support for extending the scoring places beyond the top eight.
The sprint race format has been changed every year since its introduction and last November the F1 Commission indicated further alterations are planned for the coming season. Some relatively minor changes are preferred by many, such as changing the schedule so that grand prix qualifying takes place on Saturday during sprint race weekends, the same as at other rounds. This and other potential changes, such as revising the much-criticised parc ferme rules, are to be agreed before the new season begins.
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But has Liberty Media’s research also emboldened it to make another push for reverse grid races? Domenicali is an avowed fan of the idea. After the first two years of the sprint format he said F1 has “an obligation to try” a format which would shuffle the starting order.
With its sprint race experiment, like the short-lived Alternative Tyre Allocation, Liberty has been more wiling to take a ‘throw mud at the wall and see what sticks’ approach to assessing format changes. But teams appear to be wearying of the constant changes to the sprint race format. “It’s very important that the next step that we make is one that is fixed for a long period of time,” said Horner at the Circuit of the Americas last year, a view several others expressed.
He also gave a rare admission that the sprint race format isn’t the slam-dunk hit Liberty Media portrays it as. “In some areas it’s very popular and with some traditionalists, it’s very unpopular,” Horner noted.
Just three years ago data indicated reverse grid races were even less popular than that. If Liberty Media does choose to impose reverse grid races it will be because it believes it can have its cake and eat it: Attracting new viewers to the series without losing too many of those who consider reverse grid races a gimmick too far.
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SjaakFoo (@sjaakfoo)
12th January 2024, 12:15
I mean, FOM isn’t wrong.
If I’m going to have to sit through sprint races, they had better gimmick them to be more than just a “1/3rd preview of Sunday’s actual race.” I don’t really care if it’s reverse grid, or Bernie’s good old sprinklers, or just inserting a computer chip into each ECU that rand() the bhp power output throughout the race just to dish out all the randomness I can get. Electronically flip the steering wheel so that left turns become right and vice versa. Deflate the tire pressure by a couple of PSI every 10% of laps completed. Go wild, entertain me.
Asd
12th January 2024, 13:40
I would like a reverse-grid race to have reversed points system as well = the last car through he finish line becomes the winner and gets the most points. They would all try to be as slow as possible, which would be thrilling to watch… wouldn’t it? You’d have be in gear all the time, with anti-stall off, so whoever stalls the engine is out.
It would be like antichess – a variant of chess where you need to lose all your pieces to win the game.
Bullfrog (@bullfrog)
12th January 2024, 17:04
Sounds like an idea that should have stayed on the velodrome, like elimination qualifying. And the tyres would still fall apart.
Zann (@zann)
12th January 2024, 22:08
reverse grid with sprinklers would work! You need sprinklers to have the overtaking, AND…
you have fans voting for exactly when the sprinklers start and stop. Engagement!!
Yes (@come-on-kubica)
12th January 2024, 12:26
Or you know just give up on the idea? Sky can’t even be bothered to promote them anymore.
Brell-9W
12th January 2024, 12:35
I just wanted to say I’m very partial to the reverse grid sprint race. It works well in Formula 2. Why not? The best drivers in the world should have their overtaking abilities tested. They have DRS.
I’d also like to see a Friday ‘time trial’ I know people are groaning reading that but I believe it would be very exciting.
You’d have two drivers from the same team, the second one leaving the pit lane when the first one has crossed the first sector (on the outlap). Comparing their times for lap after lap, seeing the delta’s live, for five laps maybe, the ultimate test of skill, rather than one quick lap.
But anyway reverse grids are a great test of overtaking ability.
Josh
12th January 2024, 16:20
How about watching a different series that has these things? Why are people so determined to turn F1 into a different sport rather than doing basic research and following a series that gives them what they want?
DtS has been a disaster for the integrity of F1. Take me back to 2010.
Stephen H
12th January 2024, 12:37
Please, Formula One, for the love of God.
Do not introduce reverse-grid sprint races…
MacLeod (@macleod)
12th January 2024, 13:09
It should be a seperate championship but never the F1 normal races.
Mega
12th January 2024, 16:33
How about… reverse grid, reverse racing? They all have a reverse..
Or; hook up a caravan and race. Contact with the caravan is giving bonus points.
Maybe a steeple-race. Every 3 laps you pit & the other car gets released. Pure team champignon..
/s
Ferdinand
14th January 2024, 8:56
This! And let the drivers jump off an airplane first, land their parachute, then run to their cars while grid girls try to mud wrestle them to prevent them from reaching their car. I have held a survey indicating 79% would like to see that. These numbers are up from 65% last year.
Señor Sjon
12th January 2024, 12:39
Liberty never shows the results of the Fan Surveys. I did the Fan Voice at the end of last year, and I think the ones in favor were the ones fed the question after they said yes to another one. I can’t fathom people approving the idea.
I do remember that F1 had said Sprints were a succes, even before the first ever sprint was finished. One of the commenters on racefans told a different story back then.
Craig
12th January 2024, 13:03
It did seem during and immediately after the first sprint race the TV presenters and commentators were under some sort of orders to laud it as the greatest thing ever, even those said race was “meh” at best.
Crawliin-from-the-wreckage (@davedai)
12th January 2024, 13:03
@ Senior Soon THANK YOU for NOT referring to these F1 aberrations as races.
Seems most media have succumbed/rolled over and toeing the line and helping to give the term legitimacy.
Crawliin-from-the-wreckage (@davedai)
12th January 2024, 13:04
Sjon
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
12th January 2024, 13:07
@daveda On the contrary, the FIA and FOM are the ones at pains not to refer to them as ‘races’. Have a look at the sporting regulations, they’re tortuously written to avoid referring to sprint races as races.
I don’t like sprint races but they indisputably are races so I call them races.
SteveP
12th January 2024, 14:44
I don’t like them, but if I said what I call them when commenting on this forum – you’d ban me for life +99 years.
Sooner or later, hopefully, Domenicali & Co. will give the short form sessions their proper use and the aspiring F1 drivers can have a short race every race weekend in last year’s car.
F1 noobs get their familiarisation/F1 experience in a competitive scenario, way more than they currently get, and a weekend or two they get a chance in a practice session in this year’s car.
What’s not to like?
Ferdinand
14th January 2024, 10:21
Very leading questions as well in Fan Voice, worrying manipulative stuff. It is clear to me Liberty will do whatever comes up in their boardroom and we will not be able to do anything. Only FIA can stop this. Or a rich dude needs to start a new category.
Mark Reville (@myrrve)
12th January 2024, 13:03
At least reverse grids might go some small way to lessening the huge disparity in performance and competitiveness between the top teams and the also-rans. This is the biggest challenge facing F1 bosses. The only way of doing this is to lure major manufacturers full works teams back and kicking the privateers out.
Josh
12th January 2024, 16:27
Kick out the privateers that have stayed in F1 for decades as full-blooded race teams? At the expense of manufacturers who drop out whenever they change their board of directors?
Aren’t you aware that there have been crises before when several manufacturers left/wanted to leave at once? And you want the teams to be ALL manufacturers, while kicking out teams like Williams?!
What cretinous nonsense, if we go to all manufacturers F1 will disintegrate as soon as there is another recession. I can’t believe how some fans don’t understand the basic fundamentals of F1.
MurasamaRA300 (@murasamara300)
12th January 2024, 20:38
How would the works teams be selected? Which manufacturers would qualify? Are there even enough car manufacturers where the board of directors want to participate in F1?
I looked up the largest car manufacturers in the world and found a list on the web.
According to this list, the 10 largest manufacturers are, in order of revenue:
VW (Germany), Toyota (Japan), Stellantis (Netherlands), Mercedes-Benz (Germany), Ford (USA), General Motors (USA), BMW (Germany), Honda (Japan), Hyundai (Korea) and SAIC (China).
The list contains manufacturers in Europe, Asia and North America, so it is quite “global” I guess. That must count for something.
The rest of the teams can pack up.
That includes Ferrari/FIAT, McLaren & Red Bull… cough…
(PS. Yes, this post is “tongue in cheek”. Very much so.) :)
Red Andy (@red-andy)
12th January 2024, 13:16
In case anyone worries about the overlap between F1 and WWE, I’ve just had a YouTube notification from the official F1 channel entitled, “John Cena makes his F1 debut.” So there’s that.
Ankita
12th January 2024, 13:31
You tried it once. In an appropriate track with the right rules. We used to do it karting and it was great. The guy with the fastest kart had to apply different skills which is also part of racing. I am not saying that they would necessarily work in F1 but those who oppose don’t know either. Let’s try it once and see how it goes.
Olivier
12th January 2024, 13:57
“… If the starting order was the reverse of the grand prix grid, some drivers may be tempted to set the slowest time in qualifying for sprint race pole position. …”
We will have to find out, but I think a driver is going to prefer a better starting position for the main race on Sunday. Big points are still earned on the Sunday main race.
I for one would like to see a reversed grid sprint race. The current Saturday Sprint race format is giving away too many spoilers for Sunday’s main event. Both events are too similar to each other right now.
Alan Dove
12th January 2024, 14:16
For me reverse grids would be F1’s Jumping The Shark’ moment. A point where the sport truly becomes discordant with its core historical identity.
I suspect Reverse Grids were never off the table or given up on. The way the Sprints have been introduced track closely with the Door-In-Face and Foot-In-Door strategy. Get someone to accept a change by requesting a big one first so the initial proposition sounds less radical (Reverse Grids were initially rejected but standard Sprints accepted). Once you’ve done that, you’re foot is in the door and you can gradually escalate to what you really wanted in the first place. There will have to be some fierce resistance from the teams to stop it happening eventually and at first glance it looks like the resistance to the idea has declined somewhat from various teams (and fans). I think this was factored in from the start, and I’d be surprised if it wasn’t.
I understand the viewpoint taken by Liberty on this from a pure business perspective, even if I believe its antithetical to what F1 should be. Novelty can certainly energise an audience. Obviously the risk is you take it too far an alienate your core fan base, and you get in a bit of a doom cycle. We’ve seen many entertainment properties in recent years start to decline when core fan bases are alienated, yet they continue down a spiral.
One extra thing, surveys can be constructed to produce results those writing them want and/or result of surveys can be presented in a number of ways favorable to the desire of those making them. I’d always be very skeptical.
lil
12th January 2024, 14:24
This should be what sprint races are for. Trying new formats. If it doesn’t work it doesn’t work. I race karts and we mix it up with reverse grid and heat races a couple of times a season and we always have more racers those Sundays because the races are more exciting. At least give it a shot and see what happens.
Coventry Climax
12th January 2024, 14:35
As far as I know, it’s the FiA that makes the rules of F1.
What would be nice: when FOM and Liberty deny Andretti access, Ben Sulayem and his FiA sticks up a fist full of fingers and ditch these small prix sprint thingies altogether.
What I’m afraid of though, is that the FiA lack the cojones to withstand them, and we’ll at most get some sort of an agreement, with this for that.
Stephen Taylor
12th January 2024, 17:26
The Formula One Commission which the FIA is a part of agrees the rules.
Dex
12th January 2024, 14:42
How many of the “new fans” from 2021 are still watcing F1, and what is the trend? No data on that, huh?
SteveP
12th January 2024, 14:50
There will be data, the chance of it ever being made public is probably lower than the survival chances of the proverbial snowball in hell, though.
Think back to the survey they started, in public, and then canned when it was showing the opposite of what they wanted.
Matt
12th January 2024, 14:50
I always used to be quite a purist on what F1 should be, but these days I feel like they should introduce more variation between events. Arguably, I think that the classic F1 format should be reserved for, say, 40% of races (and perhaps skew that towards tracks with the strongest heritage in F1). Another 20-30% should be shortened race weekends, like the return to Imola back in 2020, and the rest could include sprints, but finding a format that works for reverse grids is something I would really like to see.
Making it viable for alternating deals at some tracks would be a plus in my eyes too, so rather than losing the French and German GPs they would still be in circulation at least – indeed, sparing us from having so many races in the middle east each season would also be an improvement, although I don’t think viability is a concern or sharing with neighbours a palatable choice for any of those events.
Neil (@neilosjames)
12th January 2024, 19:27
I’d support a reverse-grid sprint race, but only at Monaco, and only if they dragged Alessio Deledda back, promoted him to F1 and put him on pole.
Ferdinand
13th January 2024, 0:05
We’ve already been through a lot of circus elements. Not sure whether I can continue watching this former sport if this happens. Gutted to see it disappear as a sport and become an entertainment franchise. All for the love of shareholder value. Wish they would be this dedicated to the legacy and sports nature. Who thought the new owner would do worse than Bernie.
DB-C90 (@dbradock)
13th January 2024, 0:16
My initial reaction to the sprint abominations was to refuse to watch ANY PART of the F1 action on those weekends because eyeballs/advertising revenue is what matters to Liberty, and I suggested on this forum that was the only way that the sprint abomination would ever be stopped.
Last season, for the first time in over 50 years, I made the decision to completely abandon watching any part of the F1 action, including YouTube etc, and just look at results and articles on this forum.
That my friends is the only thing that will stop reverse grids. If enough of us spend long enough away from watching any part of F1, it will eventually dawn on Liberty that viewership and revenue is trending downwards.
Because that’s not going to happen, you’re going to be
stuck with reverse grids and an increasing number of sprint abominations.
S
13th January 2024, 2:10
Even if enough people did boycott watching F1, Liberty would almost certainly not undo their changes.
They’d find more changes to enact, and continue changing things until they find a new audience.
And if/when that fails, they’ll just sell it.
Which, IMO, is exactly why the FIA should be in full control of the entire F1 product at all times.
MurasamaRA300 (@murasamara300)
13th January 2024, 15:42
I ignored the live broadcasts too and it’s been over 50 years for me too.
Don’t remember when I watched a full GP last time.
Luckily, I find this website and the discussions entertaining.
My opinion won’t make one iota of difference. I am well aware.
Reverse grids will most likely be introduced whether I like it or not.
(Then some fast drivers will suddenly ‘experience problems’ in qualifying and it will get increasingly messy from there. And I will just shrug my shoulders and go walk the dog as an old man should.)
So – bring on the reverse grids and all the other gimmicks too.
And, while we’re at it, why not reverse the entire GP results in selected random races?
Like – teams don’t know in advance if the current race is one where the finishing results will be reversed… but in two races per season, the entire results will be turned around. The winner will be counted as finishing last and the guy who retired at Turn 1 with a puncture and a lost front wheel will be declared the winner.
Call these races the “Surprise Grands Prix”.
Haas, Williams & “Stake” could score a surprise win. :)
Coventry Climax
13th January 2024, 1:34
Since all broadcasting is behind a paywall anyway, I think they should just give us all the option to either watch the real race the ‘legacy’ way or completely in reverse. Win-win situation. ;-)
MichaelN
13th January 2024, 9:17
Negative comparisons with WWE are a bit odd. Yes, that is all scripted and not a true test of the participants’ prowess. But F1 is not different in kind, just in degree.
If WWE has a script, F1 is improv theatre. Mercedes’ engines too good? Ban development. Ferrari’s battery and motor too clever? Ban it. Overtaking too hard? Add DRS. Schumacher too good? Give more points to 2nd place. McLaren and Ferrari too strong? Allow the double diffuser. Honda can be champion at Suzuka? Give a time penalty to Ferrari for missing the chicane. Red Bull too quick? Limit their R&D time. Renault not investing? Equalise the engines.
F1 is not the open series it pretends to be. That’s fine, but it does mean the FIA and FOM have a responsibility to guarantee a good product. In that respect, the post-2013 overhauls have been a big fail. So them showing some initiative to make amends is a good thing. But it’d be even better if they did so on a more fundamental level.
GT Racer (@gt-racer)
13th January 2024, 14:35
Something i’ve been told pretty consistently since 2017/18 is that they don’t spend much time looking at the opinions of the more dedicated/longer term fans because that is not the segment of viewers who’s opinions they care all that much about.
Liberty are very much of the opinion that the diehards will watch regardless of what changes they make & so in the various surveys etc.. they do the views of those who have been watching for 10+ years are essentially ignored.
They want the younger & more casual audience and are perfectly willing to upset the diehard & longer term fans to attract them again believing that that segment of the audience is going to tune in anyway.
It is of course ignoring what happened in NASCAR who chased the younger/casual audience at the expence of the longer term fans. NASCAR did then see an initial popularity boom as the more entertainment focussed changes did indeed attract the casual audience but they did also turn away many of the longer term fans. And then when the newer audience didn’t stick around and the longer term fans never came back it left them with a smaller audience than they started with and a dilemma in that reversing some of the ‘for show’ elements risks turning off the casuals they did attract while not guaranteeing the ‘diehards’ would return.
Thats the risk. Sprint races, reverse grids & other artificial, gimmicky, for show things will for sure attract a more casual audience in the short term but you then usually have to keep going down that path to retain them & the further down that path you go the more you risk alienating your core fanbase. And if you lose the casuals & have alienated your core fans you end up with a smaller audience overall.
S
13th January 2024, 15:06
NASCAR is a very different beast to F1, though…
It’s certainly possible to draw some parallels with NASCAR’s changes, but F1’s biggest strength is that it has a larger and far more diverse viewer base to work with.
F1 isn’t based around a specific region or local preference, as NASCAR is/was. It remains somewhat Euro-Centric even today – but is still fundamentally very globally attractive, by design.
Also, what many people seem to fail to consider is that F1 is in a state of constant change. Fiddling with session formats and weekend structure isn’t a new concept.
Introducing sprints to replace practice sessions isn’t a massive re-inventing of the wheel, nor is reversing grids in those sprints.
pcxmac (@pcxmac)
13th January 2024, 18:03
I think if they made the first event on Friday’s, instead of FP1, make it the sprint race in reverse order, just do an inspection with a 3 or 4 installation laps with one pit for changes. Reverse order according to the championship. Then give the second half of Friday, all of Saturday for practice and Qualifying before the race. Maybe for qualifying make it a rolling 6+ round affair where the clock never stops until the end of 60 min or red flag, if you are in the drop zone by a certain time per round, you are done.
osnola
13th January 2024, 19:56
he is becoming the Trump of F1.
repaeting lies seems to work btw..