How to Avoid a Repeat of the Track Limits Farce at Singapore
- 24th September 2014, 8:20 at 8:20 am #275956Craig WoollardParticipant
I’m unsure about you, but I was incredibly annoyed at the lack of respect towards track limits at Singapore by quite a few of the drivers. I fully understand that Singapore is a street circuit but there must be ways for the organisers to be able to run the race at Singapore without drivers abusing track limits as they have every year since 2008. One driver (Jean-Eric Vergne) gained two penalties for exceeding track limits, and it didn’t do anything to his result. The run-off areas at turn 1 and turn 7 have been a problem ever since Formula One went to Singapore. I would have thought that by now they would have found some sort of compromise. I propose the following:
Turn 1/2/3: Raised kerbs at turn 2 to deter drivers from running over the kerb and gaining an advantage. A path which would be notably slower from the run off of T1 which re-enters at T3 (similar to the new system at the Roggia Chicane at Monza). This would prevent a case like we had with Fernando Alonso this year (and at least one car in most years).
Turn 7: Tough one this, but would either the corner being made less sharp work? The problem with that part of the circuit is that is part of the road network, so nothing permanent can be put there as such. Would sausage kerbs (like speed bumps) work or is that too daft?
What do you guys think? Are you happy with the way Singapore’s run-offs are as it is, or would you like to see change too?24th September 2014, 12:53 at 12:53 pm #275972
They could go and tighten Turn 5, decreasing approach speed, or add a second set of kerbs beside the regular set already there…24th September 2014, 12:54 at 12:54 pm #275974
They also need bollards at the Turn 11-12 chicane I reckon24th September 2014, 14:03 at 2:03 pm #275980Craig WoollardParticipant
@pezlo2013 11-12 is an odd one. Don’t really see track limits being abused there, but there’s no harm in ensuring that it doesn’t happen I suppose.25th September 2014, 0:35 at 12:35 am #276005GeorgeParticipant
Honestly it doesn’t bother me too much at this track, the only real area to gain time is t2 and I don’t necessarily agree with some of the penalties given for using the runoff at turn 7. Generally when a car runs out there it’s because they’ve been forced to by a car on the inside, which I find a little unfair. If there was a wall there I don’t think anyone would find it acceptable to just run their opponents out of road. I wouldn’t be opposed to putting a slightly more severe kerb there to slow the car down (not a sausage kerb, just a bit higher so the car loses traction).25th September 2014, 1:10 at 1:10 am #276007AnonymousInactive
This is a bit black and white, but here’s a solution, and not just for Singapore.
The white lines that define the race track, stay within those lines.
Go outside those lines during qualy, time deleted.
Go outside them during the race, receive a drive through or similar.
Or they could do it the Gran Turismo way, and dimension flip the drivers back to the start or into the garage as a punishment, but we’d have to wait for that technology first I guess.25th September 2014, 1:37 at 1:37 am #276017
@the-spuditron the FIA clamped down on track limits at T8 in Austria, and at Copse and Club corners in Great Britain. Nothing since.25th September 2014, 2:53 at 2:53 am #276019Iestyn DaviesParticipant
I agree with @george really. They could have a sausage kerb extended from it’s current position at T2 exit to T1 exit, but I imagine that would send cars flying – which is way more dangerous IMO than someone going 1mm over a white line. The first Vergne penalty was ridiculous, as Kvyat was letting him by in a clear team order. Even worse than Grosjean’s Hungary one IMO. We don’t want to see a repeat of Heidfeld in Beijing, or Russian rookie in GP3/Spa.. soon someone is gonna be hurt real bad by flying at high speed off these sausage kerbs, which were put there ‘to improve the racing’ (surely we have learned from 20 years ago?).
Look at Mexico ’67.. lines everywhere, but whatever is fastest is the line taken – to the edge of the tarmac. In the infield, tyres instead of kerbs, so that’s where the drivers drove up to. I’d rather see cars driven to the limits, i.e. right up to the wall, not ‘right up to the white lines’, but I guess I’m a bit old school/too much of a driver in holding that opinion..
I see an analogy to Political Correctness in all this, and thus F1 went rather PC this year, before stepping it back a bit when the generally older fanbase reacted. Hence this ‘radio ban’ being next on the agenda.25th September 2014, 9:27 at 9:27 am #276038Keith CollantineKeymaster
Three years ago they had problems with some of the kerbs breaking. This was removed by removing the kerbs at the exits of some corners. The race then preceded as normal.
It rather showed that in some places the kerbs simply aren’t necessary. For example at Memorial Corner, a common problem point, instead of having a kerb at the exit just let the drivers run to the barrier.
I appreciate in some places this isn’t going to be the solution, but in other places I think they’re creating problems for themselves by having these kerbs which aren’t really necessary.25th September 2014, 11:29 at 11:29 am #276043GT RacerParticipant
I think the issue with removing the kurb at memorial corner (Turn 7) is that it would be too quick & would make the approach speed for turn 8 faster which could be an issue.
For street circuits they tend to look at approach speed, corner speed, run-off & barriers when laying down the kurbing & deciding on what is/isn’t acceptable from a safety point of view.
They also get some input from drivers via the GPDA in the drivers briefing.25th September 2014, 17:07 at 5:07 pm #276068Iestyn DaviesParticipant
@gt-racer I can understand the T7 problem, as di Resta’s crash there in 2013 did look like quite a big impact, due to the angle that he hit at. Arguably, this corner could be as dangerous, if not more so, than the Sling, from the higher top speed approaching it, and tighter radius. A slower T7 probably allows more overtaking there and into T8 as well.
How would those two corners do with SAFER barriers on the outside? Maldonado came to a stop very quickly at the sling, and any crash there at all would always bring out the SC/red flag. Could they open that corner up slightly more now? Perhaps keeping it as is actually presents more opportunity for driver error.
Fully open, that section to the hairpin would be breathtaking, and definitely be one of the most challenging sections in F1. You would have to gradually apply brakes each time, from a high initial speed, while maximising the line, coming close to the walls many times, and threading it through the bridge, to have a perfect entry for the hairpin, where running wide at all could blow your entire lap.
@keithcollantine Into T5, that entry kerb is pointless, but I can appreciate that trying to make that corner tighter increases the chance for overtaking into T7 – otherwise there are not many bona fide passing opportunities in the lap. The way I would approach that corner is to make the exit a flatter barrier, rather than one with an outside kerbing put into it. I think this does work well before the penultimate corner, however, and noticed it was introduced at the right hander T8? a few years back.
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