Max Verstappen says he understands people feeling bored by Red Bull’s domination of Formula 1.
The team and driver have made a dominant start to the 2023 season and are widely expected to retain the championships they won last year. However Verstappen said he would prefer to have more of a fight on his hands as he did in his year-long scrap with Lewis Hamilton in 2021 and to a lesser extent with Charles Leclerc the following year.“It’s nice sometimes to have good competition,” said Verstappen in Montreal last weekend. “Honestly, I enjoyed of course ’21 but I also enjoyed the way ’22 went. Of course in the beginning we had some reliability issues, the car was a bit heavy, but at one point the car was also really quite dominant at the end.”
Although domination by one team can be a turn-off for some viewers, Verstappen pointed out it has happened many times before in F1.
“I understand of course people get a bit bored if only one team is dominating,” he said. “We’ve seen it also at Mercedes, we’ve seen it with Ferrari in the past, we’ve seen it with Red Bull in the past.
“So for sure I hope that more teams can get together, then at least even if you have a little issue or whatever or you can’t get the set-up fully in 100% then there’s another team to win.”
Verstappen joined Red Bull in 2016, when Mercedes were at the peak of their dominance. He won one of the two races which were not claimed by their drivers that year, but said he never advocated changing the rules to curb their superiority.
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“It’s all about hard work and I appreciated what they were doing,” he insisted. “It was super-impressive at the time, so I never really felt like you had to stop that or anything. It was all about just trying to work harder and try to catch up.”
While Verstappen is likely to remain favourite to win most of if not all this year’s remaining races, he said his urge to compete hasn’t been affected.
“For me there’s probably even more motivation because you know that you have a winning car,” he said. “When you sometimes come to weekends when you are in P5 or whatever is the best – I mean, that’s still very good, but it’s probably less motivating than when you come to a race and you know that you can win.”
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2023 Canadian Grand Prix
- Norris ‘even more’ sure Canada penalty was wrong after review request fails
- McLaren seeking more than just downforce gains from major upgrade
- Winning more races won’t necessarily lead to F1 seat – Palou
- Red Bull’s testing restriction will “massively affect” 2024 car development
- Schumacher’s set-up input gives Mercedes a “super advantage” – Wolff
S
22nd June 2023, 9:01
Domination is a massive turn off to a huge proportion of F1 viewers – the majority, I’d suggest, even though many will continue to watch regardless.
However, many certainly will switch off, just as they have every other time dominance has infected and taken over F1.
2021 was proof enough of the sort of content people really want to see in F1, even if some rules got bent and stretched to enable it. =
Todfod (@todfod)
22nd June 2023, 13:18
It’s a shame that they had to bend the rules in the end.. as that season would have been epic if Lewis won as well. Maybe Lewis would retire after that season though.. so maybe they bent the rules to make Lewis stay a few more seasons and hope viewers get a repeat of 2021.
S
22nd June 2023, 14:35
Whatever theory anyone has for why the rules were or were not misinterpreted or misused is largely irrelevant – the point is that two teams were close together in performance and events enabled them to fight right from the opening race to the last lap of the final race.
That’s a great starting point – the goal should be to provide that every season at a minimum from now, and build the number of teams that are in that fight.
A little controversy along the way just makes it more interesting.
Mayrton
25th June 2023, 21:56
Yes, if you want it to become an event, like a festival or concert. Great entertainment. Sure a lot of people would like that. Then there are some that would like it to be a sport/athletic performance mixed with technology. I bet they will be(come) the minority though.
NM
22nd June 2023, 14:22
Agree, its a shame they changed tyres during the season because merc was burning them up so fast.
Todfod (@todfod)
22nd June 2023, 15:15
And changed the floor rules the previous season to end Mercedes’ dominance. Finally, they had to break their own rules in Abu Dhabi to give Red bull the win.
Wes
22nd June 2023, 18:14
Right, those floor regs introduced in 2021 were directly to curb the Merc dominance. It worked but the FIA went way too far with the rule bending in Abu Dhabi. Even Newey said the RB was the superior car over the whole season and we were seeing absolutely brilliant driving from both Lewis and Max (when they weren’t colliding haha). Such an amazing season to only end with a rule breaking safety car to favor one driver over another. Ridiculous, I honestly wished Merc would have continued with the legal battle just to solidify the fact race control was blatantly breaking the SC rules at the race. Many Max fans still don’t believe that was a one-time occurrence, specifically for Max to gain an advantage he should not have had (I mean Lewis was like 10 secs ahead prior to the SC, he dominated that race, and those final three races were something special from Lewis, especially Brazil. If the rules were following Lewis would’ve won the final 3 races in a row, an incredible feat he had to do just beat Max in the standings. Was an incredible push to finish the season. Race control was basically doing everything Horner requested while ignoring anything from Toto at Abu Dhabi.
A M (@amam)
22nd June 2023, 18:21
The whole mess still stings. Even if Masi didn’t gift the title deliberately to Max, you have to ask what were the stewards thinking, sanctioning a never before seen application of the safety car rules. IMO, people like Derek Warwick and those stewards who sat on the panel in AD 2021, are just as culpable as Masi.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
22nd June 2023, 18:23
It’s not an incredible feat to beat someone with a slower car and merc had become definitely faster than red bull the last 4 races.
Mayrton
25th June 2023, 21:59
This! That already threw away the season. All after that really didn’t matter anymore since it was fixed anyway. Really interesting will be to see what will happen in 2023 as history is repeating itself again at Silverstone this year when we will get new tyres…
CarWars (@maxv)
22nd June 2023, 16:05
yes total shame they didnt penalise Hamilton in Silverstone
NoName (@noname)
22nd June 2023, 17:15
@maxv Silverstone was Max’s own fault for dirty driving. You not gonna ignore how Lewis was the one preventing crashes previous races like in Spain, Imola, Silverstone Sprint race etc, had Lewis not yield in Spain for example then they would have crashed there. Max deserved what he got at Silverstone
sethje (@seth-space)
22nd June 2023, 18:30
so you agree with carwars, Lewis did it on purpose..
Marky
22nd June 2023, 19:04
Are we still at this point? Lewis was eager to win at Silverstone so he did the dirty driving whether you like it or not. It was a very dangerous move from him. Max was ahead at the apex, but Lewis did not want to back off. Which I can understand, he was probably frustrated that someone else could beat him in front of his own audience. But still he was at fault, therefore got a penalty of 10 secs. Didn’t bother him, he won,undeserved, and put Max out of the points. Otherwise Max would have won the WC earlier than in AD. So what can I say, what goes around….maybe not the smartest decision from Masi, but Max deserved it just a little bit more if you look back at all the races in that season.
verstappen (@chadstappen33)
22nd June 2023, 21:24
Lewis deserved what he got at Abu Dhabi
Todfod (@todfod)
23rd June 2023, 15:02
@chadstappen33
Ok Jos!
A M (@amam)
22nd June 2023, 18:15
They did. Just as they penalised Max for Monza
Wes
22nd June 2023, 18:21
That’s a ridiculous take. That was a pure racing incident and I’d put more blame on Max in that crash, it was too opportunistic to even try that line. And like the other guy says, Lewis had to do a ton of really safe avoidant driving because Max was like a kamikaze any time he tried to overtake. Max caused nearly all of their incidents and Lewis probs prevented more than Max caused. Max also ran into Lewis at Brazil 2022. I don’t understand why people rooted for the only guy that regularly crashes Lewis and Lewis has been a very clean wheel to wheel driver his entire career. There is no other driver that Lewis regularly has incidents with. It’s pretty clear Max is overly aggressive when racing wheel to wheel and he has since he started in F1. I think he’s improved this but he is still no Hamilton when it comes to clean wheel to wheel racing. This is the main reason I rate Lewis as the superior driver. They’re pace is always top notch but Lewis is a much cleaner racer.
sethje (@seth-space)
22nd June 2023, 18:33
Strange how lewis fans seems to forget he already took out several people with the same move. Like on Albon..
Silverstone was a terrible act by lewis and he should have been black flaaged for it.
But its water under the bridge and the year ended with some retribution when Verstappen made the brilliant pass on Lewis.
Mayrton
25th June 2023, 22:09
Can’t put it better in words than @Marky above but on the wheel to wheel it goes both ways. It’s a clear cut, seen it 1000 times before, situation of the old dog not letting it getting stolen away by the new kid.. which eventually always will happens in the circle of life. Classic transition, understandable frustration from Lewis and understandable overconfidence from Max.
LyndaMarks
22nd June 2023, 18:06
And yet ratings through the past 30-40 years actually shows very few turn off during periods of dominance.
For as much as the vocal minority complained during the period of Mercedes dominance the ratings were actually going up a few years into it.
And even during the Ferrari years in the 2000s ratings remained fairly stable.
MichaelN
22nd June 2023, 20:02
That’s what the people selling the commercial rights say. And back in Ecclestone’s day they counted pretty much everyone who watched regular news coverage because it added up to something like half an hour over a full season.
Nevertheless, these are the same people who pushed for double-point final three races for 2014 because they knew that people do tune out once the title is effectively decided.
On YouTube, the numbers are public – and last year’s race highlights on YouTube for the first three races are 11, 9 and 10 million. The final three show a 50%+ decline, coming in at 5, 5 and 5 million.
S
23rd June 2023, 3:24
That’s not true at all. Who told you that?
Funny. I remember it being almost (if not actually) at crisis point, such was the decline in viewership. Rules were changed on an unprecedented scale to stop Ferrari dominating in the hope of enticing viewers back.
F1, the FIA and even Bernie acknowledged they were in real trouble at the time.
David (@nvherman)
25th June 2023, 20:28
The only time I’ve ever stopped watching F1 is when ITV had the television rights and used to show adverts during the races. Also didn’t help that it coincided with the refuelling era, which I despised, and grooved dry tyres.
But I started watching every race from the 1989 season, so have seen dominant eras for:
Williams
McLaren
Ferrari
Red Bull
Mercedes
Red Bull (again)
I’m still watching every race (and most qualifying sessions)
SadF1fan
22nd June 2023, 9:04
But there has never been good competition when Verstappen was winning in karting. He put it on pole and drove away from the others.
The only times there is good competition is when Verstappen has reliability problems or inferior machinery, like his F3 season.
Ivan Vinitskyy (@ivan-vinitskyy)
22nd June 2023, 10:08
He is good but he’s not the kind of good where there is no competition. It’s just that competition is not Perez or Ric… had he been in the same car as Ham or Alonso things might have been different.
SadF1fan
22nd June 2023, 10:29
Look at his karting record, he is practically that good.
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
22nd June 2023, 11:45
Actually he is exactly THAT good. In equal machinery he’d still claim the titles or occasionally lose out because of incidents and technical failures not because of his performance. It was like that in karting and in f3 and ever since. No one had beaten him in equal machinery except Ricciardo when Max was a Redbull newby and a f1 youngster. Even then, technical issues and damage to the car were more influential than his personal performance although he did make mistakes and caused some damage back then.
NoName (@noname)
22nd June 2023, 17:19
@w0o0dy Ricciardo would have decimated your Max 3-0 had Helmut Marko sided with your Max. Max is massively overhyped and not that good, put a strong driver or WDC driver next to him and Max will crumble with his fragile state of mind.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
22nd June 2023, 18:26
I’d like to see a strong driver next to verstappen but I really doubt that would happen, I think he would be hard to beat for anyone.
Itsmeagain (@)
22nd June 2023, 21:10
Yes 41 times pure luck you mean…. Gambling is luck, not his wins
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
23rd June 2023, 12:23
@noname: lol mate you’re so biased even “your guy” disagrees with you.
Lewis Hamilton says that Red Bull rival Max Verstappen can “absolutely” break his record of 103 grand prix victories
David (@nvherman)
25th June 2023, 20:29
@noname what on Earth are you talking about?
David (@nvherman)
25th June 2023, 20:31
@noname are you talking about the same Ricciardo who was so comprehensively beaten by Norris over two seasons that McLaren paid him off rather than have him in the car for a third season?
Wes
22nd June 2023, 18:27
I genuinely do not think Max could compete with Lewis or Alonso in the same car. I think him and Russell have similar talent – insanely fast future multi champs but can be incident prone. He’s not really had a decent teammate to compare while Lewis outdrove 3 different champions as teammates, particularly Alonso his rookie season. Lewis has also been competitive in every car he’s driven, went through like 3 different car regs as well.
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
23rd June 2023, 11:52
Like I said below. People with actual f1 knowledge (ex drivers, team bosses and current f1 drivers rate Max as absolute first rate… So clearly you are flat out wrong.
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
23rd June 2023, 11:55
Lewis only had the best car for many years, only last year and this year has he had to compete with sub-par equipment (that didn’t break so no handicap from DNF’s) and his performance has been mixed and mostly underwhelming for his stature.
greasemonkey
22nd June 2023, 19:42
It helps to race anything substantial in real life to evaluate things based on footage.
My racing eye sees Lewis as the best braker ever, even above Ayrton. I think on equal equipment, Lewis would beat Max more often than not on a braker’s track (like Montreal).
But overall, both Max and Alonso impress me more, on most other sorts of tracks. On equal equipment, I’d take either Max or modern Alonso over Lewis on a full season of tracks. Probably Alonso, frankly, due to that race craft thing he has on top of the wide ranging technique range he has.
greasemonkey
22nd June 2023, 19:44
Yes, modern Alonso is better than McLaren Alonso. That much is clear to me.
stjs16 (@stjs16)
22nd June 2023, 21:45
Alonso is best all round driver on grid today, maybe not the best at any one thing but damn close in everything.
MacLeod (@macleod)
23rd June 2023, 8:23
As a follower of Max Verstappen in Carts and F3 he was that good even when he wasn’t pole he won. In F3 he had a van Amersfort (midfield team)car VW engine while Ocon had a Preforma car Mercedes engine (best team) and he won so much if he didn’t had so many technical failures he would win the championship.
When with a car about the same he will win more then often.
Nick T.
23rd June 2023, 11:24
Many F1 fans seem to have the memory of a fly and act as if no one has ever been close to Max despite the fact that that Daniel bested or deadlocked with Max in their head-to-head while teammates over three seasons. Yes, Max has become more polished since then and there’s a 90% chance he’d take the head-to-head now, but he is not unbeatable.
And, since DR was the only teammate who really pushed Max + with the way he crushed his other teammates (poor Ocon and Seb) prior to getting into Woking lunch special, F1 fans should be praying he replaces Perez (RB will have it so they can yank him from the car at anytime so there’s basically no risk.
Daniel va Max head to head
[points: DR 457 – MV 377]
[wins: 3 each]
[podiums: DR 18 – MV 11]
[poles: DR 1 – MV 0]
[quali: DR 21 – MV 22]
Vettel vs Ricciardo
* Wins: DR 3 SV 0
* Points DR 238 SV 167
* Podiums: RIC 9 VET 4
* Races: RIC 13-6 or 11-2 when both finished
* Also had a 2nd DQ’ed for a violation having nothing to do w/performance
DR vs Hulkenberg
* Quali: Ric 14-7
* Finished Ahead: Ric 12-2
* Laps ahead: Ric 686 vs 392
DR vs Ocon
* Quali: Ric 17-2
* Finished Ahead: Ric 9-3
* Tripled EO’s Points (Ric 597 vs 207)
DR vs Max (2016 + 2017 + 2018)
* Quali: 21-22
* Points: 457-377
* Wins: 3-3
* Podiums: 18-11
Moi
22nd June 2023, 9:28
I kind of hope Max joins Ferrari when his RB contract expires, then gets the WDC as a Ferrari driver after a few seasons. He is young enough to do so.
S
22nd June 2023, 9:46
By taking a bunch of key Red Bull personnel with him?
That’s how Ferrari last became consistently successful….
Matteo (@m-bagattini)
22nd June 2023, 10:01
Can’t see that happen. Red Bull is a much more modern company, Ferrari needs to overhaul its structure before a driver like him or Lewis is tempted to join. And anyway, Ferrari problem has never been the drivers lineup: they never got championships with Alonso or Vettel, they won’t win with Max if they don’t change their whole mentality.
MichaelN
22nd June 2023, 10:20
It’s debatable in Alonso’s case, because he cost himself a whole bunch of points in 2010 especially.
That said, compared to Hamilton/Russell and Verstappen/Pérez, the Leclerc/Sainz lineup does seem the least impressive. Especially if Leclerc continues to be quite evenly matched by Sainz.
Todfod (@todfod)
22nd June 2023, 13:22
If Leclerc gets beaten by Sainz this season.. honestly, there’s no excuses for him. He could get beaten in one season, where Sainz had significantly better luck than him, but to get beaten by a mediocre talent again, will just label him as ‘inconsistent’ and ‘crash-prone’. Not the kind of driver Mercedes or Red Bull would ever consider in the future.
SjaakFoo (@sjaakfoo)
22nd June 2023, 10:44
Max doesn’t care about Ferrari like some people and drivers do. It holds no magic to him. He wants a competitive car, so he’ll go to a team that can deliver him that or stay with Red Bull for as long as they have one.
Todfod (@todfod)
22nd June 2023, 15:19
I think its the ultimate test for Max… to win a championship with a mid field calibre team. If he can do what world champions such as Alonso and Vettel have failed to do, he would throw his hat in to the GOAT ring. If he fails, Ferrari would have realised that they aren’t F1 material anymore, and would probably plan on exiting the sport to enter Indy or LeMans full time.
Either ways, Max has nothing to lose.
NoName (@noname)
22nd June 2023, 17:22
@todfod Max’s task is to beat a strong teammate or WDC teammate and not No2 drivers like Albon, Gasly, Pèrez etc.. I really don’t rate Max high at all.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
22nd June 2023, 18:31
Not to mention verstappen already matched hamilton in 2021 with very similar cars, so don’t see how you can’t rate him high: red bull was superior in some races and mercedes was overall slightly superior across the season, much stronger the last 4 races.
sethje (@seth-space)
22nd June 2023, 18:34
i know. You stated all his wins were by shear luck..
41 times to be exact ;)
Wes
22nd June 2023, 18:34
He definitely has had extremely easy teammates which makes it really hard to rank him. I will say the 2021 season with him vs Lewis told us he is extremely fast but also nearly causes race ending accidents when trying to overtake. He’s definitely not proven himself to be as good as Lewis at least but he may be near him in overall speed and skill. Dude is just obnoxiously aggressive with wheel to wheel racing. So many times I’ve seen where he pins a driver where they have to back out or both of them will wreck. He’s pulled some of the dirtiest overtakes I’ve seen since Schumi. Lewis has never done that crap and had actively avoid Max so many times in 2021, there would’ve been more crashes if Lewis wasn’t avoidant driving any time Max was close to him. Max is really bad at clean overtakes but hopefully he’s improved since ‘21.
MichaelN
22nd June 2023, 20:09
Great drivers make perfectly fine good drivers look bad. It’s not a coincidence that increasingly writers compare Verstappen’s season to Schumacher – rather than Hamilton, Vettel or some others. He is practically peerless on the grid right now.
Itsmeagain (@)
22nd June 2023, 20:12
@noname So actually you are telling us that your ‘opinion’ about a driver like Max is more worth than all the F1 insiders (teambosses, ex-drivers etc). It’s all a hype and you are the only one who is seeing it right, right?
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
23rd June 2023, 11:50
Too bad for you anyone with actual inside knowledge of f1 and thus beter equiped to rate his performances is in awe with his performance… So I guess it’s safe to say you are wrong.
Ivan Vinitskyy (@ivan-vinitskyy)
22nd June 2023, 10:07
Can’t blame Max or Redbull for pushing. I can blame FIA for not punishing Redbull enough for overspend in 2021. Things might have been different if they had thier budget decreased substantially.
SadF1fan
22nd June 2023, 10:31
It wouldn’t. Ferrari and Mercedes still don’t understand their own cars, they are 1.5 years into a new technical regulation.
Richard
22nd June 2023, 10:52
You really blame it on that little amount of money they overspend? You can’t be serious. That would not make any difference at all. The other teams just need to make the right choises to develop a better car. It’s as simple as that.
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
22nd June 2023, 11:47
Let’s wait and see how the 2nd half of the season is well underway to judge if the cost cap penalty actually clipped their wings enough for the field to catch up…
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
22nd June 2023, 11:48
The current car was already under development before the cost cap penalty came into play. So it will take some time to judge the effect.
Jim
22nd June 2023, 12:51
As soon as he gets any competition he’s a dirtier driver than the great fabled Maldonado.
Todfod (@todfod)
22nd June 2023, 13:23
Its fun to watch though.. he becomes the antagonist really easily, like he did at Monza and Jeddah in 2021.
The Dolphins
22nd June 2023, 14:35
@todfod I don’t find it fun to watch, it’s frustrating when drivers are dirty and the stewards have to be involved to decide what should have been decided on track. ( Yes, I’m still bitter about Adelaide 1994 :/ )
Wes
22nd June 2023, 18:40
Right Max is just like Schumi in how dirty he drives when there is actual competition. Lewis was doing crazy avoidant driving in 2021 because he learned that Max does not play fair in wheel to wheel racing. There would’ve been more Max-Lewis incidents that year had Lewis not been hyper aware (and pretty much every incident they did have was fully or partially due to Max’s over aggressive driving). I can never root for a driver like that. Lewis has been super clean his whole career, he didn’t need to rely on dirty tactics because he was faster.
Raymond Pang
22nd June 2023, 13:47
Couldn’t agree more. This is the one big asterisk that still sits next to his name. It’s such a shame Ferrari’s 2022 challenge faded so quickly. I’d have liked to have seen what the Leclerc-Verstappen battle turned in to.
NoName (@noname)
22nd June 2023, 17:24
@Jim Finally a comment that makes sense and based upon facts instead of riding Max hardcore, thank you Sir.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
22nd June 2023, 18:34
Ahah, any comment that goes against verstappen and in hamilton’s favour would make sense in this case.
Itsmeagain (@)
22nd June 2023, 20:25
Max dirty driver? If you are watching F1 with union jack glasses it is supposed to be, but ask one outside this lewis bubble and you will be surprised. Max is a hard racer, very hard. But the framing about him as dirty is meanly something british media did to feed the lewis fans. And they succeeded. In the other bubble Lewis is seen as the most hypocrite driver in the field… ask Rosberg or Alonso what a nice teamplayer he is
Qeki (@qeki)
23rd June 2023, 6:47
@itsme I hate both Lewis and Max. Never liked GB or Netherland eather. It’s not just all the “Jacks from the union” who say that. Max a dirty driver. He is not the worst one but Lewis is much more clean one.
In the other hand Lewis was also a pain in the butt in the early years. It’s just an age thing. Let’s see how Max is in 2036. Lewis has calmed down a lot.
Wybe
22nd June 2023, 13:57
My question would be to all of the Hamilton fans on this forum, did you enjoy the dominant years he had with Mercedes? I can remember him being 1 second or more faster than most of field in the Canadian GP in 2016, was that fun to watch? For me, I really enjoy the dominant Verstappen/RBR combo and also his commments about the situation. I was thrilled when he did well between 2015 – 2020 and offcourse 2021 was a complete thriller of a season, but to win race after race is also a pretty good achievement and for me as a fan, special to withness.
Whats your take on this?
IPBA
22nd June 2023, 14:41
I did not enjoy the Merc domination but at the same time even the domination was not as bad as what we see now. I do not care if it is Max or someone else in the RB. The RB is so fast it will win every race this year bar reliability and the same could not be said of the Mercs at least between 2017-19 when Ferrari mouted a challenge. At least in 2014-16 there was the tussle between Lewis and Nico and it gave us some excitment. Even if the other teams do not catch up before 2026, we need a someone who can mount a decent challange to Max in 24/25 in the second RB seat then at least it will feel like the Merc years where you had the two Mercs fighting for the lead and then battles for best of the rest.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
22nd June 2023, 18:36
What about 2020? Bottas in the other car, as dominant car as 2014-2016.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
22nd June 2023, 14:57
Yeah but the Mercedes domination was also one of the most entertaining ones with the Hamilton vs Rosberg rivarly followed by the Hamilton vs Vettel rivalry. Unfortunately, Bottas was not able to compete with Lewis but at least he gave him a run for his money in qualifying so it was different. 2021 was thrilling but extremely unfair in its outcome and it traumatized folks including Mercedes.
Wybe
22nd June 2023, 15:33
So, if I’m interpreting your comments correctly, the fact that Verstappen has no competition in the race, and the RBR is so much faster, it makes it a different season to watch as a non-verstappen fan?
Qualifing hasn’t been boring at all, if you ask me.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
22nd June 2023, 16:03
Do you really believe that Max is only capable of 25 poles while winning 41 races in a car that he has 24 fastest laps in?
Compare it to Hamilton’s numbers: 103 poles, 103 wins, 62 fastest laps
I think Red Bull is trying to avoid Pole + Win (and grand slams) because of the 2021 and budget overspend. They are content winning the race and the WDC/WCC with the occasional pole. A wise decision since the budget overspend resulted in no penalty so I assume they will extend it this season since there’s zero competition. I have a feeling Red Bull throw a few pole positions towards Aston Martin, Ferrari, and maybe Mercedes.
Wybe
22nd June 2023, 18:16
I think your point is extra reason to believe that the Mercedes was more dominant in that period compared to red-bull now.
Anyway are there more Hamilton fans who think the same here? It’s real curiosity from my part.
Maybe I am only enjoying it so much because of my rose-tinted glasses?
The conspiracy theory about red-bull trying to avoid P1 in quali seems a little far fetched to me.
Itsmeagain (@)
23rd June 2023, 9:42
I’m sure the domination of the MB was especially fun for Lewis fans. We read here a lot of personal reasons why people think it was so much more fun than now. Fact is that those opinion are far from objective. Fact is that the MB dominance endured about a decade. We are now in the second year of max’s dominance and Lewis fans and british media are moaning about it for at least a year. And of course the budget cap is for some folks still a reason for downplaying RB and Max’s achievements. In my opinion the illegal tyre test of MB in 2013 (https://www.racefans.net/2013/06/04/what-could-mercedes-have-learned-from-their-secret-tyre-test/) made much more impact for the performance of the MB than the 400K overspending of RB.
David BR (@david-br)
22nd June 2023, 23:17
Wybe
Put it this way, since Spa last year we’ve seen Verstappen driving like a championship winner in the fastest car – he oozes confidence and skill. But we don’t see much if anything of the other, feistier Verstappen scrapping for wins or having to produce something really spectacular to beat a rival. The closest driver too him just now, Alonso, is cautious and seems content with second place (the same happened back when he was in a Ferrari racing against Vettel). His team mate is nowhere and were he ever to challenge Max on track – in the way, say Rosberg did against Hamilton – he’d be immediately under intense pressure at Red Bull. Whatever they claim, they want Perez firmly in a support role only. So essentially there’s no jeopardy. How does that compare with those seasons when Hamilton won at a canter? Just as uninspiring really. I don’t see how you get much pleasure in seeing such easy wins, but I’ve no issue if that’s what you enjoy. Not to say I’m not impressed by Verstappen’s performance this season. I’d just rather he was fighting harder for the win in some races at least.
Wybe
23rd June 2023, 12:12
David Br, thank you for your well balancend comment. I can follow a lot of your resoning, I would also be more exited if Verstappen really had to fight for every win.
Then again, my (maybe faulty) memory is that Hamilton also had a lot of Pole to Finish P1 results. The MB engine was so much stronger, especially in Q3 rocket-mode. Bottas tried to be a strong opponent, but never was. Rosberg had a good run in 2016, but lacks the real fighter spirit that Hamilton clearly has. Respect to his skill and consistency.
It’s always hard to compair say Verstappen, Hamilton, Leclerc, Norris, Alonso, if they are not in the same car. Russel isn’t totally destroyed like for example Vandoorne VS Alonso, which says a lot about Russel.
Maybe I will get bored in a year or so, but for now, let everybody else proof what they’re made of. (including the constructors).
Denis (@denis1304)
22nd June 2023, 14:35
I just consider 2nd place as 1st place… and races are fun again.
BlueChris (@bluechris)
22nd June 2023, 14:50
This :)
Exactly what i do and what i did from 2014 to 2021
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
22nd June 2023, 16:16
@bluechris
From 2014 to 2021, Hamilton won 81 out 160 races which about a little over 50%. Here’s the breakdown by year:
2014 58%
2015 53%
2016 48%
2017 45%
2018 52%
2019 52%
2020 65%
2021 36%
His most dominant season was during COVID when he won 11 out of 17 races (65%) but for the most part he actually won a lot of his races on track which still made it thrilling to watch as his racecraft was impressive to watch.
The Red Bulls can overtake as you come out of a corner without DRS and without even setting up a pass – they are just a higher category vehicle compared to everything on track. Even Brundle was stunned by the LeMans-esque overtakes.
David BR (@david-br)
22nd June 2023, 23:22
@freelittlebirds Red Bull started this season like they’d arrived from ‘Formula 1A’, breezing past everyone, especially with the DRS. Maybe, just maybe, they’ll fall within reach at one or other circuit this season but they still give the impression they could raise their pace a notch or two if need be.
Marc
22nd June 2023, 23:26
Nice stats but how is it when ver drives it its a rocketship and per doesn’t do didly squat with that same car. I actually can enjoy the racing of all drivers. Ver ham and alo the most. I dont like ham or ver as persons to much, but i like the honest asshole racer vibe from ver more then the fakish disingenuous ham. I guess it’s about taste mostly. Or nationality tbh. But that doesn’t in any way make me hate their racing or make me dilute anyones racecraft. What’s the point? Fi i really thought alo had ver at monaco and was rooting for him but astounded to see ver clinch it.
Itsmeagain (@)
23rd June 2023, 10:08
Maybe there is another scenario and that is that Max don’t wan’t to take the risk anymore making nice but risky action and waits for the long straight. The reaction of brundle makes me sad. Probably he and his colleagues forgot the straightline speed of the MB in the second half of 2021. Remember Lewis in brasil 2021, starting from the back to the first place. MB was burning engines, but than it was for most of the people okay. J. button even said that it was Lewis’s best race. No word about MB engine tactics….
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
23rd June 2023, 12:55
@itsme
Well, Brundle has seen 40 years worth of overtakes. I remember being shocked as I saw the Red Bull pull up on other cars.
Philip (@philipgb)
22nd June 2023, 18:48
Here’s my prediction based upon typical form:
Red Bull will dominate next year as well. The people in charge of F1 will start formulating a way of ‘improving’ the racing which will take a few years to come in.
But then a year or two before the big rule shake up intended to finally give us competition, the teams performance will start to normalise and we’ll get some actually competitive racing. The new rules will come in and one team will have nailed them and dominate for several years. Rinse and repeat.
Robert Henning
22nd June 2023, 20:28
Not his or RB’s fault that others can’t seem to figure out these regulations even after spending 290 million over the last two seasons while RB could do it with an additional 400k while managing a title fight, all while incurring a single race crash damage worthy of an engine penalty, and around 1.5 million pounds.
Tiaki Porangi
22nd June 2023, 23:22
Abu Dhabi 2021 was actually the last race I watched on TV.
I went to Melbourne 2022, attended the race itself, exiting stuff at the race, but I realised the f1 fire in me is now down to mere embers. None of the adrenaline rush I felt attending races in 2008 (Silverstone), 2012 (Abu Dhabi), and a few others along the way.
I read accounts on this site and watch the odd youtube highlights, but for me – and my now 11 year-old son, who adores Lewis Hamilton – AD ’21 killed the magic.
Oh well, there’s always some other sport, I guess.
f12007v (@f1fan-2000)
23rd June 2023, 3:59
Max even in a 3rd fastest car from 2016 can still win races. This means hes unbeatable in the fastest car. See Ham and Alo struggling to win. Max is that good and consistent that he has no off races like hamilton usually in monaco eg.
Qeki (@qeki)
23rd June 2023, 7:00
“Look, Simba. Everything the light touches is our kingdom”
“Whoa”
“A king’s time as ruler rises and falls like the sun. One day, Simba, the sun will set on my time here, and will rise with you as the new king.”
“And this’ll all be mine”
“Everything”
“Everything the light touches”
Like it or not F1 has it’s new kings time after time. They all have something similar but in the end they are totally different. You like some of them and the others you hate. Just don’t be Scar. I know all you fans have them but ffs don’t fight like animals and go eat worms and find your own mongoose to play with.
Wybe
23rd June 2023, 13:14
+1
Well said.