Aston Martin say the spate of penalties issued after the Austrian Grand Prix was what they expected to see as a result of their protest.
The team protested the provisional result of the Austrian Grand Prix as they did not believe all the track limits infringements which occured during the race had been counted by race control. Eight penalties were issued during the race but a further 12 were handed down as a result of Aston Martin’s protest.It took the FIA five hours to announce the final race results once it had processed all the track limits infringements which occured during the race. The sport’s governing body said it had to examine 1,200 potential infringements.
Aston Martin team principal Mike Krack admitted he was “shocked” by that number: “1,200 seemed quite a lot to me.”
However the team was not surprised the FIA eventually issued a total of 20 penalties to nine different drivers. “The infringements and the penalties that came were in line with our expectations,” said Krack in response to a question from RaceFans.
Krack explained why the team decided to protest after the provisional classification for the race was issued, at which point only eight penalties had been applied.
“We saw that not all the infringements were penalised in the race,” he said. “When we got the provisional race classification, we saw that it was still not done and then we decided to protest.”
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The opportunity for teams to protest the result of a race is limited. Protests can be brought within half an hour of the provisional classification being issued. “From that moment, the countdown runs for us as a team, and then we decided that we have to take action,” said Krack.
The team’s drivers Fernando Alonso and Lance Stroll moved up to fifth and ninth in the final classification as a result of the penalties. Krack said the team was always “confident” its drivers would not fall foul of the track limits.
While rivals such as Ferrari and McLaren failed in their appeals to the stewards at the rounds in Australia and Canada respectively, this is the second time this year Aston Martin have successfully petitioned them to amend a result in their favour, following the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix when a penalty for failing to serve a penalty correctly was quashed. Krack said this area of their operation is a strength of the team’s.
“It is just a matter of preparation,” he said. “It is part of the race to look at that, after a race or if you are protested or if something is not the way you think it has to be.
“We have a strong team at home. We have a strong team at the track that is preparing [for] such situations well. And I think this has helped us in these two occasions to be successful with our points.”
Some drivers have called for changes to improve the enforcement of track limits. The FIA has repeatedly told the Red Bull Ring to reinstate the gravel traps which used to border turns nine and 10, where most of the infringements took place.
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However Krack believes there is no problem as long as the rules are enforced consistently and correctly. “The drivers have to stick on the tracks and if they are not, they have to receive the right penalty,” he said. “It is as simple as that.
“There were 10 drivers who managed to keep the track limits. Our drivers were instructed that we had the penalty last year. I think their ears were bleeding from us telling them what the penalty will be and they managed to stay on the track. The same for seven other drivers. So I think it’s possible.”
Due to the high number of penalties collected by some drivers, the stewards took the decision to impose more lenient penalties on those who committed the most infractions. Instead of progressing from five and 10-second penalties to harsher drive-through and stop-go sanctions, the stewards applied a “reset” and gave repeat offenders further five and 10-second penalties.
Krack had no complaint about the decision to soften the penalties. “All we want is consistent application of, first of all, infringements and application,” he said. “So I think the way it was handled is fine.”
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2023 British Grand Prix
- Norris is “growing” closer to the champion who inspired him to race
- Second supplier part failure ‘a frustrating issue we must solve’ – Alpine
- Albon ‘surprised’ to be quicker than Alonso at end of British GP
- Bottas admits Alfa Romeo ‘were expecting to be better than this’ in 2023
- McLaren now “finding performance quicker” after emulating Red Bull’s design
David BR (@david-br)
6th July 2023, 11:52
So Aston Martin looking and sounding proud about their small part in creating a farcical meltdown at the Austrian GP.
Still no idea how 1200 potential track violations translates as just 20 penalties.
S
6th July 2023, 12:57
There’s one way, nicely highlighted for you.
And the other is that to save face after the drivers spectacularly disgraced themselves and all of Formula 1 on the global stage, the FIA changed their penalty allocations to include a reset after a number of breaches.
This was one of – if not the – worst showing of incompetence and lack of respect for the rules by participants in F1 ever.
Nobody will remember it, but it was at least as bad Indy 2005 in terms of F1’s image as the supposed ‘pinnacle of motorsports.’
anon
6th July 2023, 13:28
@david-br a possible explanation may be that the stewards were only enforcing penalties for breaches of track limits for Turns 9 and 10 – when you look at the list of lap times that were deleted, the only corners that they refer to are those two corners, and similarly all of the penalties issued for breaching track limits only referred to Turns 9 and 10 as well.
Basically, it suggests that drivers could, and probably were, breaching track limits elsewhere around the circuit, but only Turns 9 and 10 had been defined as corners where breaches in track limits would result in penalties.
Andy (@andyfromsandy)
6th July 2023, 13:47
The stewards and race officials have to enforce track limits over the whole course. They cannot arbitrarily decide otherwise. In some respects that’s why the last guy got in such a pickle with yes we won’t, no we will enforce limits.
What I believe they did is just give up counting at some point.
Andy (@andyfromsandy)
6th July 2023, 13:48
The real farce is the FIA not doing the job it is supposed to do. Called out by AMR they were found sadly lacking.
drmouse (@drmouse)
6th July 2023, 14:14
Before I start, I’m not defending them here. I strongly agree that they should enforce track limits on the entire course.
That being said, the main rule here states that you must not gain an advantage by exceeding track limits. The reason they currently only choose certain corners to monitor are that they are the corners where exceeding limits will most likely gain you an advantage. They don’t perceive there to be much advantage to be gained, if any, from exceeding the limits elsewhere, so reserve judgement on those to specific cases (like gaining or keeping a position by leaving the track).
IMHO if a driver is repeatedly leaving the track, they are either trying to gain an advantage or not in adequate control of their car (or both). Either is worthy of a penalty.
SteveP
6th July 2023, 15:25
Immediately, not with a multi-lap delay. I recall seeing an interview where Albon said by the time they warned him he could recall what he did on that specific lap compared to others where there was no infringement noted. Repeat that up and down the grid and you have the farce.
No contact with white lines full stop, pressure sensors and GPS interlinked to notify the stewards and the driver – assuming the drivers can count they can keep their own tally as well as the official one.
I know the just touching interpretation of track limit exceeded needs a rules mod, unless they move the white line they don’t want drivers to touch, but it’s a simpler detection than figuring out whether the car is more than half off the track.
drmouse (@drmouse)
6th July 2023, 15:37
I very much agree that a better approach would be to say all parts of the car must stay within limits at all times, and that the inside of the white line determines the limit. They can move the white line a car’s width out if they want to give the same effective racing area.
S
6th July 2023, 16:27
Almost kinda sorta…. It actually states:
Being lazy or incompetent is not a justifiable reason.
It then goes on to add:
The priority is to actually stay on the track, and gaining an advantage (or not losing one) is of secondary concern.
It’s feasible to argue that being off the track repeatedly at a corner exit leading onto a long straight is gaining a lasting advantage by default, as it is not only potentially faster, but also reduces tyre wear and can influence fuel consumption. Lasting advantages, certainly.
And lastly, there is:
Continually driving off the track can certainly be deemed to be erratic and potentially dangerous – and ties in rather well with other regs including unsportsmanlike behaviour and failure to comply with the Race Director’s instructions. Plus, bringing the sport into disrepute….
But regulations are just words…. We wouldn’t want to spoil anyone’s fun or fantasy that these are the best drivers in the world.
drmouse (@drmouse)
7th July 2023, 9:54
@S Yeah, true, I was talking of the only part which has been enforced over the past several decades. That’s always been an irritant to me anyway: It shouldn’t matter whether an advantage is gained, the drivers need to keep their car on track!
anon
6th July 2023, 14:46
@andyfromsandy we have seen races where race control have taken the approach of noting a breach of track limits, but only imposed a penalty when exceeding those track limits was deemed to be advantageous for the drivers.
As noted by drmouse, given the regulations talk about gaining a lasting advantage, the approach by race control seems to be to focus on punishing those cases where a driver is perceived as gaining an advantage. For example, if you look at the Canadian GP, although qualifying saw drivers having times deleted for exceeding track limits in several different corners, in the race itself, race control seems to have focused their efforts on just Turns 9 and 13.
Andy (@andyfromsandy)
6th July 2023, 15:00
Once there is a concession for one corner then there is a potential push by drivers to claim the rules are not being fully observed so just relax them elsewhere. It is better, IMO to either do it 100% or don’t do it all.
drmouse (@drmouse)
6th July 2023, 15:39
Agreed. Every grey area you introduce adds another point of inconsistency. “The car must stay on track at all times” is much easier to police consistently than “you must not gain an advantage by leaving the track”.
David BR (@david-br)
6th July 2023, 17:16
@ anon, makes sense, though I still think it’s non-transparent, if not arbitrary, which it shouldn’t really be. I also favour alternative solutions to the whole track limit monitoring technocracy.
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
6th July 2023, 15:18
@david-br what’s wrong with feeling proud that the rules applied everywhere to everyone and they benefited from not making mistakes like the others did?
David BR (@david-br)
6th July 2023, 17:20
@fer-no65 I don’t think they did anything wrong. But achieving 5th and 9th shouldn’t be a motive for feeling self-satisfied for a team that was in second place at the start of the season. And I don’t think it was good for F1. Policing track limits – steward penalties for going wider than allowed on corners, I mean – should ideally never be part of Formula 1. In my view, it always indicates a problem with the track design and is a flawed remedy for the latter.
Dale
8th July 2023, 2:09
LOL, clown.
In your view, should there be boundaries to any other sporting field … since you seem to think ‘your view’ is what’s important here?
David BR (@david-br)
8th July 2023, 14:19
Obviously the idea here is above your pay grade. Few other tracks have this kind of persistent problem with track limits, none with the sheer number in Austria.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
8th July 2023, 9:24
@david-br Of course Aston Martin is proud of getting some notion of sport imposed on proceedings. Otherwise, the entire race was a waste of time for everyone involved. How does anyone not understand the vital importance of compliance with the regulations to there being a sport? (OK, the FIA ignores it more often than I’d like…)
Coventry Climax
6th July 2023, 12:38
Usually when you brake the law more frequently, the punishment gets harsher, and rightfully so.
It’s pretty pathetic, isn’t it, when part of a sportsteam gets the dedicated job to control during the race whether race control did it’s job. And be successful at it.
drmouse (@drmouse)
6th July 2023, 14:29
Agreed. It isn’t right that AM felt they needed to protest the result of the race.
Even if the stewards were honestly already reviewing the infringements, as they suggested, it’s still not an acceptable position to be in. That kind of information should have been relayed to the teams, at least, before any felt the need to raise a protest.
The more I read about it, though, the more I think that the stewards should have been harder on this earlier, and would recommend they do so in future. If a driver is continually breaching track limits, they are not in adequate control of their cars and the stewards have the option to penalise them harshly. An escalating penalty system would be a good thing, here. I’d suggest something similar to the following for all infringements, no matter which corner.
– 1st and second noted
– 3rd black and white flag indicating final warning
– (in cases like this weekend, any additional infringements ignored until the flag is shown, to ensure they aren’t penalising incidents before the final warning is given)
– 4th-5th 5s penalty each
– 6th 10s penalty
– 7th+ Disqualification, unless there is a very good reason, in which case drive through at a minimum.
I’d also be tempted to say that if a driver rings up more than an equivalent of 40s of penalties in a race, they should either be disqualified or get additional sanctions (like a grid drop for the next race).
drmouse (@drmouse)
6th July 2023, 14:34
* I’d suggest something similar to the following for all track limits infringements, no matter which corner.
The final point about drivers amassing more than 40s of penalties would apply to any type of penalty, not just track limits. The reason for making it 40s was be to leave the 10s stop/go as an option, as that counts as 30s on its own. Maybe more than 35s would be more appropriate, or even more than 30s (so if you did get a 10s stop/go, you couldn’t afford any more penalties at all without risking a DSQ)
SteveP
6th July 2023, 16:53
Ah, that explains the slow response of the stewards – brakes on the law. :)
Adrian Hancox (@ahxshades)
6th July 2023, 12:42
What do snitches get?
Coventry Climax
6th July 2023, 13:14
A contract from Wolff.
floodo1 (@floodo1)
6th July 2023, 13:49
So the stewards changed the rules?
drmouse (@drmouse)
6th July 2023, 15:57
They have form. Sometimes the officials even just ignore them…
Coventry Climax
6th July 2023, 16:58
Well, first of all, it’s hard to tell which the rules exactly are, as the FIA is pretty messed up about it, and seems to change, invent or reinstate rules constantly, and is unable or unwilling to penalise the same infringements consistently. They always come up with fancy words afterwards, which boil down to the audience not understanding or such. They’re undermining their own authority at a rate worthy of F1.
Secondly, yes, they changed the rules. They were more lenient to drivers that exceeded track limits more frequently, which is the world upside down evidently, and I doubt it has ever happened before. I’m sure someone here will know, but even if so, that doesn’t make it right. Do it ten more times and you won’t get punished at all anymore?
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
6th July 2023, 19:24
It’s not exactly the same thing but for example back when we had grid penalties for replacing parts, if you think about 2021, mercedes took so many penalties with bottas that they first got 5 places, then 10, 20, something like this and then would only get 5 because he already had got so many penalties, so they could get free engines and get away with it basically.
I didn’t really expect that before seeing the results of a further component change late in 2021.