Ferrari chairman Elkann pleased with team’s “better start”

24 comments on “Ferrari chairman Elkann pleased with team’s “better start””

1. 

   Tristan
   15th March 2024, 4:47

   I’d love to see some statistical analysis of Stroll vs anyone on the grid, let alone Alonso, to provide some context as to whether he should be on the F1 grid or not.

   The more I think about it, the more annoying it is. There are only 20 spots on the grid and every one that is bought and paid for is reducing the fair sporting chance for somebody to showcase their own talent and make their own case for being in a team capable of winning the championship.

   Is this a sport? Or are the drivers actors there for their publicised entrances, wide smiles and neutral opinions?
   1. 

      F1 frog (@f1frog)
      15th March 2024, 9:46

      I made a mathematical model comparing the outright qualifying speed of every driver since 1987 with teammate comparisons and these were the results for 2023:

      1. Max Verstappen (FASTEST)
      2. Lando Norris (+0.069%)
      3. Charles Leclerc (+0.164%)
      4. Lewis Hamilton (+0.283%)
      5. Oscar Piastri (+0.295%)
      6. Carlos Sainz (+0.328%)
      7. Fernando Alonso (+0.368%)
      8. George Russell (+0.411%)
      9. Daniel Ricciardo (+0.499%)
      10. Nico Hulkenberg (+0.506%)
      11. Pierre Gasly (+0.518%)
      12. Valtteri Bottas (+0.522%)
      13. Esteban Ocon (+0.609%)
      14. Alexander Albon (+0.687%)
      15. Sergio Perez (+0.762%)
      16. Kevin Magnussen (+0.835%)
      17. Zhou Guanyu (+0.852%)
      18. Yuki Tsunoda (+0.937%)
      19. Lance Stroll (+1.157%)
      20. Nyck de Vries (+1.370%)
      21. Logan Sargeant (+1.476%)
      1. 

         notagrumpyfan
         15th March 2024, 10:24

         Tell me more, tell me more, how did you get so far.
         Tell me more, tell me more, how exclude impact of car.

         or in modern speak:
         – how did you calculate this? Mean or Median (I would prefer Median to minimise the impact of extreme results)
         – is there a way of excluding the car impact? (not sure how to do that though)
         1. 

            S
            15th March 2024, 10:52

            This is a case of the use of statistics to prove literally nothing at all.
            1. 

               Coventry Climax
               16th March 2024, 16:28

               This is a case of clairvoyance to prove that seeing things clearly does not exist without knowledge of the relevant facts, plus the capability of logical, decent insight to judge things.

               You don’t even know where the data came from, how the results came about, have no clue how the modelling is done, no insight into what claims and disclaims are made, yet you say ‘this is a case of the use of statistics to prove literally nothing at all’.

               After I see all relevant information, I might agree with you to an extent, and even say it doesn’t prove much, but nothing? Right upfront and without the information?
         2. 

            F1 frog (@f1frog)
            15th March 2024, 11:20

            I tried to post the full link to the model but it didn’t work. Could it maybe go in ‘motor racing links of interest’ tomorrow @willwood ?
   2. 

      MichaelN
      15th March 2024, 10:24

      On the other hand, the big filter has already happened by the time drivers get to F3 and F2, so regardless of who makes it to F1 they have quite a bit of financial backing behind them. Is it that much worse if that’s family wealth than when it’s management gambling on future salaries, compatriots sponsoring for the domestic market, government subsidies for sports, etc.

      Stroll is not a bad driver, nor does he embarrass himself notably more than others. He didn’t crash out from P3 in a race he could and should have won, he didn’t crash out after taking pole, he didn’t go out in Q2 in a Red Bull, etc.

      It’s also a bit unfair to put the stagnant state of F1’s grid on Stroll. There are nine other outfits that could hire the young talents, and they don’t either.
2. 

   Jere (@jerejj)
   15th March 2024, 6:05

   The sunglasses also look good & more like goggles.
   1. 

      Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989)
      15th March 2024, 8:39

      That’s Gianni Agnelli’s style.
      1. 

         jhg103 (@joshgeake)
         15th March 2024, 9:28

         He couldn’t look more ‘entitled wealthy inheritance’ if he tried.
         1. 

            Iosif (@afonic)
            16th March 2024, 7:57

            Hahahahaha
   2. 

      Bullfrog (@bullfrog)
      15th March 2024, 12:23

      Good’s not the four-letter word I’m thinking of. Wonder if there’s a helmet cam in there?
   3. 

      floodo1 (@floodo1)
      15th March 2024, 13:06

      ppl say Apple Vision looks weird but my man is rocking the no-tech version already lol
3. 

   d0senbrot (@d0senbrot)
   15th March 2024, 7:40

   All it took was Apple Vision Pro to see Ferrari in a pleasing form.
   1. 

      MichaelN
      15th March 2024, 10:30

      Like Di Montezemolo said last year:

      “Do you know what I find unfortunate? That they are now cheering for third place, like at Spa. That’s not the way Ferrari is, and the Old Man would never have accepted that, never.”

      Second in the WCC looks okay, until you see the huge gap to Red Bull.
4. 

   ludewig
   15th March 2024, 9:29

   I wish to thank my parents for giving me the confidence and resources to make this comment. Now I’m in a position where I can help to drive change.
5. 

   An Sionnach
   15th March 2024, 10:06

   Can we get some tyre competition into F1? Michelin might be interested if they don’t have to make rubbish tyres. If we had decent tyres that should make things more competitive. I don’t think the Red Bull advantage is huge, it’s just that no other team can manage the tyres over a race. Once they have a consistent driver, it all adds up. I don’t want to target Red Bull in an unfair way; mandating rubbish tyres irks me and makes F1 look silly, just as developing a car with zero testing allowed does.
   1. 

      MichaelN
      15th March 2024, 10:16

      F1 doesn’t want tyre competition, so even the bid for new suppliers put out a while ago was strictly for spec tyres.
   2. 

      S
      15th March 2024, 11:33

      If we had decent tyres that should make things more competitive.

      Or it could just as easily (and is more likely to) work the other way – where the ‘best’ car also gets the ‘best’ tyres, and the rest are left even further behind.

      Opening up F1 to multiple suppliers makes it a supplier competition – which is unnecessarily expensive, wasteful, unsustainable and inevitably leads to a negative result on the track.
      The idea is nice, but the reality – particularly in modern F1 – is terrible.

      You say rubbish tyres – but they’re only ever going to be as good as what they are attached to and how (very specifically) they are used.
      We need teams to be more adventurous with their strategy – but F1’s enormous aero problem and excessive data makes taking those risks highly unattractive.
      1. 

         MichaelN
         15th March 2024, 19:51

         It has indeed been the case that the best cars were ‘held back’ by the tyres. Usually because they generate more downforce and/or have better mechanical grip/balance and would slide around less than the competition, giving more grip, reducing wear and keeping temperatures more stable. That’s true.

         But the problem with Pirelli tyres has little to do with the teams not being adventurous. Pirelli tyres’ operating window is small, and they must be kept at a specific temperature to balance grip and longevity. Set-up choices are limited, because they must be run in a specific way to maintain structural integrity. The margins for these things are very narrow.

         Then on the sporting side, the mentioned problems mean that Pirelli’s compounds are all quite similar, and the difference in performance is small. This is exacerbated by the mandatory pitstop rule, which means no-stop Hards are not possible. This leads to many races being divided into one third and two thirds, often with the Soft and Medium compound. Making an extra stop in that second half to two thirds of the races requires teams to make up about 25-30 seconds and that’s rarely feasible. Not because they don’t want to try, but because the Soft compound is rarely that much faster than the Medium (or even Hard), but primarily because the Soft tyres cannot be pushed for a third of the race. They’ll simply overheat, degrade and become slow.

         The only reason teams can make the Soft last a third is because they’re all going rather slowly. Even if race lap times are often 4 to 5 seconds off qualifying pace, that still doesn’t mean a driver on Soft tyres could make up 25 seconds in 5 to 6 laps if they were pushing at qualifying pace. Mathematically, yes, but they cannot be at qualifying pace for 6 laps. That’s not a thing with Pirelli tyres. It’s not possible. This happens often when drivers make an unscheduled late stop; they switch to Softs, they make up 2 to 3 seconds on the second lap, then 2 seconds, then 1 second, then another 1 second, and then the advantage is gone. And that’s on cars with low fuel.
         1. 

            S
            16th March 2024, 1:00

            The real problem – if we are going to narrow it down to only one – is why the tyres are the way they are.
            Apart from F1’s target letter to Pirelli, there is the most basic fact that these cars are absolute garbage, over-managed non-racing cars.
            They are heavy and make an enormous amount of downforce – two factors which have an equally enormous influence over what tyres they can use and how they’ll behave over a distance. Add the teams’ ability to collect, analyse and implement data to operate those tyres at their peak performance at all times, and it’s a complete recipe for disaster.

            It doesn’t matter who makes F1’s tyres – with the current style of cars and with the current level of constant management of them, they simply won’t ever satisfy anyone.

            Tyres that operate from ambient temp without preheating? No way. We don’t want that kind of operating window.
            How about more durable tyres that are more consistent over a long stint? But they’re slower which is totally unacceptable, and also more boring as nobody ever needs to pit.
            Okay, how about dropping all the data and sensors and letting the driver feel their way around the tyre like they used to? Don’t be ridiculous – this is F1, the pinnacle of managing the fun and driving skill out of car racing.

            I repeat my previous comment – the tyres are like this because of the characteristics of the cars they are designed for. You want ‘better’ tyres – you either need better cars or to make some major sacrifices to the way the series operates.
            If F1 is a team/engineering competition, then it doesn’t really matter what the tyres are like. If F1 is a driving competition, then it still doesn’t really matter what they are like.
            If F1 is entertainment, however – it matters a lot what the tyres are like…
   3. 

      Phil Norman (@phil-f1-21)
      15th March 2024, 15:09

      I think the sport of F1 has become very stale over the past 10 to 15 years or so. Almost total reliability, very limited testing, no tyre battles, no refuelling, simple DRS passes, no engine development and very strict rules on design have all contributed to this. It is borne out by the domination that certain teams and drivers have enjoyed since 2010.

      If one team manages to design a car just on point, with most things working pretty much as well as they can, then often the results are a foregone conclusion. Unless this team has two drivers capable of taking the fight to each other.

      I realise that Schumacher and Ferrari were pretty dominant in some seasons before this, and others of course, But there was always a greater possibility of something going wrong, some choice/option working better than another or an unexpected change in circumstances.
6. 

   Asanator (@asanator)
   16th March 2024, 10:36

   Get rid of mandated minimum tyre pressures and allow the teams to tune the tyres to their car. Pirelli can issue suggested minimum pressures and if a tyre blows because a teams runs a lower pressure, they can say I told you so.
7. 

   Mike
   17th March 2024, 14:47

   Elkann definitely makes good business decisions but I question whether this is one of them. I think it is more about the money than the future success of Ferrari.

   For instance, he signs LeClerc to a long term contract after telling him he is their star, promptly gets rid of Sainz who has proven to be a damn good driver and teammate. Then he brings in a mega star who has proven to be somewhat caustic and expects for good reason to be handed the keys to the car (no pun intended). Doesn’t exactly sound like a recipe for success.

   Hamilton coming to Ferrari will be much like ALO going to Aston – he is the star and the car will be designed around him whether LEC is beating him or not. Does anyone really believe HAM will not have input to the cars design after what has happened at Mercedes?

   Hamilton has been bigger than the team at Mercedes and is going to expect and get the same at Red. He has already lectured Ferrari saying they have a long way to go concerning social issues. The interesting dynamic is going to be the reaction of the Tifosi not to mention the Italian press.

   I don’t see this ending well – implosion is the word that comes to mind. I look forward to 2025.

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