New races must stop
- 21st December 2012, 0:17 at 12:17 am #22078421st December 2012, 0:20 at 12:20 am #220785BobParticipant
@joey-zyla – Chicanes at the end of long straights, in other words, the Hermann Tilke school of circuit design, have done little to improve overtaking opportunities. To use Yas Marina as an example, it was horrendously difficult to overtake there, even at the chicanes, at least until the advent of DRS. (No wonder, then, that the 2009 and 2010 Abu Dhabi Grands Prix were poorly received, scoring 5.8 and 6.6 respectively in Rate the Race). The pervasiveness of this ineffective technique in his track designs is part of the reason why Tilke is so vilified by fans.21st December 2012, 0:24 at 12:24 am #220786Prisoner MonkeysParticipant
There’s no sense arguing with him. He’s obviously only seen this year’s Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, and clearly thinks that the circuit is a template for greatness.21st December 2012, 1:19 at 1:19 am #220787BrownyParticipant
My proposed calendar which I think adequately combines heritage, economic and geographical requirements.
1. Melbourne, Australia
2. Shanghai, China
3. New Dehli, India
4. Barcelona, Spain shared with Valencia, Spain
5. Monte Carlo, Monaco
6. Zandvoort, Netherlands shared with Spielberg, Austria
7. Potrero de los Funes Circuit, Argentina
8. Montreal, Canada
9. Sochi, Russia
10. Paul Richard, France
11. Silverstone, Britian
12. Nurburgring, Germany shared with Hockenheim, Germany
13. Hungaroring, Hungary
14. Spa, Belgium
15. Monza, Italy
16. Marina Bay, Singapore
17. Suzuka, Japan
18. Yas Marina, Abu Dhabi
19. Austin, USA
20. Interlagos, Brazil21st December 2012, 10:30 at 10:30 am #220788Giggsy11Participant
For me it’s not so much the History factor in this debate, its the fact that Bernie keeps adding races that aren’t needed. Adding a new track every year doesn’t allow for current tracks to develop, the easiest example for this is Korea probably. Korea fills next to no seats since its conception and it is likely to get the boot in a few years time for a new track like Bangkok. If they actually spent time designing a circuit that has a legitimate chance of being successful (not planting them in the middle of no where in a country with no interest in the sport) then I don’t see why we cant have a new race from time to time.21st December 2012, 12:07 at 12:07 pm #220789KingsharkParticipant
Shanghai is a modern day classic. There, every single race since 2009 has been brilliant. The circuit itself is better for racing than Spa or Silverstone.
Singapore cannot leave the calendar. It’d be a shame. Night race, street circuit, punishing and difficult race track. It’s like Monaco, but at least it allows overtaking.
I’d rather have Monaco dropped from the calendar than Singapore dropped. That’s right, I said it. :P21st December 2012, 13:56 at 1:56 pm #220790matt90Participant
I would’t mind Singapore being dropped unless they significantly improved the layout. I don’t mind a very long, demanding lap, or very long demanding race. Those are great qualities. But the parade of identical, slow corners does nothing for me. Keep the bumps, keep the length, maybe even keep a lot of 90 degree corners, just connect them in a less dreary way.21st December 2012, 16:15 at 4:15 pm #220791AnonymousInactive
I don’t think that the addition of new tracks to the calender is a big problem, but the fact that most of them are in Asian countries with no motorsport following. It has been a success in India and China, but what about Korea or Turkey or Bahrain? Why can’t they go to places where there is a growing interest in motor racing like Venezuela or even making a return to Mexico? I don’t like Bernie’s focus on the Asian market and it seems that by 2015 Asian races will outnumber European ones, something that’s never happened before. I would be fine with that if there was public interest in most of those countries for a Grand Prix but there just isn’t bar a few exceptions. When F1 raced in Turkey did the public know? No, at least most of them didn’t. So new circuits isn’t a problem so long as there is public interest.21st December 2012, 17:22 at 5:22 pm #220792robk23Participant
I don’t object to new races, I just object to races at venues where the grandstands are half full. Especially when there are countries that have a much bigger F1 fanbase where there would be more bums on seats. Watching on TV, places like Korea look empty and disappointing whereas Austin looked genuinely exciting.21st December 2012, 19:19 at 7:19 pm #220793PelicanParticipant
Prisoner Monkeys – why is it elitism to put races where there are fans to buy the tickets? A race track should seat 200,000 people, is that the attendance the asian races are getting? I agree F1 should try to expand its audience, but plunking down grands prix in places where they’re just expensive novelties isn’t a very good way. (The NHL tried that, too: it doesn’t work. You can build it, but why should they come?)21st December 2012, 19:59 at 7:59 pm #220794AnonymousInactive
@kingshark SINGAPORE? You’d rather keep a track with almost exclusively 90-degree corners than a track with iconic features such as the Grand Hotel Hairpin, Beau Rivage, the Chicane, and the Tunnel?21st December 2012, 20:12 at 8:12 pm #220795rob lomasParticipant
are you on about the NFL Matches at wembly by any chance?
my PERFECT but slight unrealistic Calender
19.buenos aries no. 15
now THAT has got heretage and the corners that that drivers want in countrys where people actually give a damn about f121st December 2012, 21:18 at 9:18 pm #220797PelicanParticipant
Rob lomas – not exactly. I don’t know where the NFL is going with the Wembley games, but I don’t think they’re doing any harm.
The national hockey league took teams away from stagnant cities in Canada and the Midwest and moved them down to growing cities in the southern US. The teams that landed in smaller cities like Columbus and San Jose became legitimately popular because they were the only major league team. In big cities people bought tickets for a year or two while it was something new, but attendance quickly dropped and some of the teams went bankrupt.
The root of the problem is that the south has no hockey culture: in the northern half of the continent, kids learn how to skate and play pick-up hockey games in second-hand gear on outdoor municipal rinks, flooded back yards, and frozen ponds. Down south, no one learns to play hockey: the winters are too warm, indoor rink time and new equipment are too expensive, and there’s other things to do. So the sport was a hard sell (like the NFL in London) because no one grew up caring about it and everyone followed other sports. The Atlanta team moved to Winnipeg last year , and the league has trying to sell the team in Phoenix for 3 years. Winnipeg has 1/7th the population of Atlanta but all of them love hockey; there’s a line of willing and able buyers in Canada for the Phoenix team, but the league seems to want to keep the team in Arizona where no one can figure out how to make it break even.21st December 2012, 22:39 at 10:39 pm #220798AnonymousInactive
6. Clermont Ferand
8. Oulton Park
9. Mosport Park
10. Port Imperial
11. Hermanos Rodriguez
19. Buenos Aires no. 15
20. Interlagos old
Fixed. @roblo9721st December 2012, 23:46 at 11:46 pm #220799KingsharkParticipant
Singapore is not that bad. It’s Monaco at night with overtaking, equals Singapore.
Give it some 20 more years and people will praise it as being a classic.
This thread gave me an idea.
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