Bourdais gets 25s penalty

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Felipe Massa has gained a crucial extra point in his pursuit of Lewis Hamilton in the world championship after Sebastien Bourdais was handed a 25-second penalty for his collision with Massa.

The pair clashed as Bourdais exited the pits after his final stop on lap 52.

Bourdais falls from sixth to tenth in the standings, promoting Massa to seventh and Mark Webber to eighth.

Revised race results
Revised championship standings

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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98 comments on “Bourdais gets 25s penalty”

  1. lap 52 of 67 … what is excuse this time for “after the race” decision ?
    wait and see how the race will settle and then just make some result … FIA rox :)

  2. What???

    Surely Massa was at fault? The way I saw it, Massa made an error – but there was no need for any penalty as his punishment was contained within the incident – ie he spun and lost time due to driving into Bourdais!

  3. I haven’t yet seen the video of this one..
    Keith; please could you tell me a link?

  4. This is the most unbelievable penalty yet. I am stunned.

  5. hehe. I don’t care who wins the championship anymore – this is a farce of monumental proportions.

  6. I was expecting this farcical decision as I expect most others were once I saw the ‘after the race fixing decision’ announcement! :p

  7. How much more crooked can this ‘sport’ get in favour of Ferrari?!

  8. Ok, this is ridiculous.

  9. When I saw the incident, I didn’t konw they were up for position. When I did realise that, I thought Massa was indeed at fault. Sad for Bourdais that he got the penalty.

  10. i say let it be.

    seriously, it was like kovalainen/webber in spa or hamilton/massa in lap 2. i dont agree with these type of decisions but if those have been punished then this one should be too.

  11. Hah! FIA once again is the strongest Ferrari fan!

  12. It’s nothing like kova/webber or ham/massa. Bourdais was leaving the pits wasn’t he? I’d have to see it again to be sure, but what the hell was Bourdais supposed to do? Slam the brakes on and let Massa through? It was for position. And it’s unlikely he could even see Massa in his mirrors.

    Maybe I’ll change my mind when I see it again but this decision is even more of a joke than the turn 1 one.

  13. Earl ALEXANDER:

    Massa turned into the corner and contact was inevitable but it is stunning that the stewards have penalised Bourdais as he was on the inside and defending his position and not Massa.

  14. I despair, really I do. What a ridiculous decision. If anyone needed to be penalised for this (and I’m not convinced that they did) then it had to be Massa. Bourdais was ahead, fighting for position and on his legitimate racing line. Massa just wombled into him.

    And, to top all that, I can’t believe that the incident that seemed to me to invite the most scrutiny – Massa’s incredibly dangerous move on Webber, straight across the hatched box that demarcates the pit lane exit from the race track – has not even been mentioned by the stewards. If a car had been leaving the pits at that moment there would have been an accident of aircraft style proportions.

    This is yet another day on which F1 makes itself look rather foolish.

  15. This is a very strange decision indeed. It was for position and MAS just parked it in the wrong place – very reminiscent of DCs antics actually.

    Massa’s move on Webber was incredibly silly and dangerous. It should have been investigated. I despair of the current crop of title contenders, who don’t seem to be able to drive a tough but fair race. They’re like kids with powerful toys. (except KUB who seems to drive his own race nicely)

  16. Oh, that’s just the last straw! Massa was at fault for that incident!

  17. I wonder if Bourdais onboard camera shows that he made a slight mistake at turn 1 causing him to nudge Massa. From the view we saw during the race it looked like Massa was the one making a mistake. I am pretty stunned at this decision but need to see some alternate footage to be sure it’s wrong.

  18. Are stewards paid on a commission per penalty basis?

    That would explain this spate of issuing penalties to any driver they can catch hold of?

  19. There are some comments from Bourdais on right now, which are, I think, spot on.

  20. I have nothing to say, apart from to add my disgust at this nonsensical, and clearly very biased decision. I’ve had enough of this now.

  21. What an utterly bizarre decision. I do hope the stewards have some good information and will share as soon as possible. But from Bourdais quotes, it implies it was just as we saw it, which makes you wonder what planet the stewards are on right now.

  22. This is just incredible. First it takes 25 minut before Massas penalty was handed out, basically giving him 2-3 places for free while doing nothing for Hamilton since he was last anyway. Then this, handing him even more points. I’m just amazed that McLaren even have the motivation anymore to go on racing in F1.

  23. This is ridiculous. This is worse than the Belgium fiasco, by quite some margin. What the hell are they playing at?

    McLaren might as well just sit out the last two races and enjoy the Ferrari coronation as spectators.

    More worrying, for F1 as a sport, this now means Massa needs to win the championship by seven points (this point, plus the six from Belgium) to avoid being seen as undeserving.

    Why wasn’t Massa investigated for: 1) diving into the pitlane to overtake Webber; 2) causing Sutil’s accident in Singapore; and 3) gaining two places by overtaking with all four wheels off the track in Canada (a long time ago, but still). Not to mention Valencia!

    There’s just too much of it to be “inconsistency” anymore…

  24. ferrari international assistance

  25. I’ve only seen the external camera angle of the Bourdais/Massa collision, I can’t say for sure whether Bourdais did anything wrong until I see an onboard from his car. But it doesn’t look as though he did anything wrong.

  26. It is interesting that he sort of keeps moving left towards Massa after the collision. Is that an extension of the normal racing line, did he pick up a nudge on impact, or did he, maybe, twitch the wheel a little? It’ll be good to see the onboard.

  27. Jonesracing82
    12th October 2008, 10:09

    thats absolute ********!
    Bourdais was on the inside as he had to be cos of the blend line and massa turned in on him!
    conspiracy theorists have another meal on this one…

  28. I can’t believe it! Really really odd

  29. I’m sick of watching a good race and then feeling angry and disillusioned within a few hours of the finish.

  30. Im a Massa fan… but i dont think Seb should have been penalised. It looked like a racing incident.. and should be left at that.. move on, no penalties, nothing.

    However its too hard to judge from the only footage we get so i think once more footage comes through then it would be fair to comment. You cant tell at all how much room is left for Seb from the angle they give us.

    But yeh, pretty silly penalty, this is racing after all.. this stuff happens.

  31. Well its official… FIA really does stand for Ferrari In Assistance – is there really any reason for having the other cars on the track for the final two races, may as well just let Massa and Kimi drive round and round!

  32. i dont even know what are you talking about.

    massa was clearly in front of bourdais when the accident happened. in this case massa had the advantage because it was he who was leading bourdais at that moment. i thought in this case the one who is behind should let the other one go if there isnt enough place for both of them. bourdais has not done that.

    thats the case, we can all agree on it – whether you are hamilton fans or not.

    and if the accidents like that had been penalised before, than it was a right decision to do the same with this one.

  33. This penalty was clearly Bourdais’ fault. According to the rules: “At any time while driving, when a Ferrari appears in your mirrors, wheather seeing it or not, all possible action shall be taken to fascilitate the immediate overtaking of that Ferrari around yourself. Failure to do so shall be seen in a very serious light by Ferrari International Assistance, herein after called FIA.”

    This rule shall apply doubly strict for MacLaren!

  34. F1 is now a total joke! I will NO LONGER watch it and I hope many more people stop watching F1 too. After this farce of a race – there is NO POINT to F1 – it isn’t real racing anymore – if they are willing to give a penalty to the race leader who is only trying to regain his place in the first corner…. How many other drivers went off the race track in the first corner? Oh, yeah, Alonso said he went off the track at the first corner because he went wide(in the press conference after the race)…but I didn’t see his drive through penalty – nor any other drivers! F1 is no longer credible…and I hope many people stop watching it! I hope the manufacturers start their own F1 – I might watch that new and improved version of F1! For now ..I won’t watch it ever again!

  35. Atticus, please watch the incident properly. Bordais had his inside wheel almost on the grass – and he is racing the other car… that’s what ‘motor racing’ is all about, or at least it was. Not “letting the other one go” as you put it.

  36. George:

    And, to top all that, I can’t believe that the incident that seemed to me to invite the most scrutiny – Massa’s incredibly dangerous move on Webber, straight across the hatched box that demarcates the pit lane exit from the race track – has not even been mentioned by the stewards.

    Not to mention he actually left the racetrack to complete that move – something that I believe Hamilton was punished for in Spa.
    I’ve been rolling my eyes at all the comments about Ferrari International Assistance, but today it strikes me that – as the great philosopher Homer J Simpson once said – it’s funny because it’s true.
    Another question – there were a couple of other lower order drivers off the circuit at the first corner; how come the people that caused them to go off the circuit weren’t also given drive-throughs?

  37. Presumably this 25 second penalty is a ‘drive through penalty’ and thus not appealable. Yet again the stewards have helped Ferrari and done so in a way which cannot be overturned, no matter how contentious the ruling. This sport is fixed, so anyone who expresses surprise at this kind of thing from now on should really watch something else.

  38. Not to mention he actually left the racetrack to complete that move – something that I believe Hamilton was punished for in Spa.

    Nope, Massa is in the clear on this one. He was on the racetrack throughout the maneuver, even if he crossed the pitlane exit – that only applies if you’re coming out of the pitlane.

    For precedent, see Fernando Alonso’s pass on Mark Webber at Suzuka 3 years ago.

  39. This penalty is wrong….

    Unless there was something we are not aware of I fail to see how it could possibly be right…

  40. Bourdais has now become the unluckiest driver in Formula 1 now.

  41. Bourdais clearly infringed rule 192-5-b.

    “no driver shall get close to, or challenge a ferrari driver and cause them to make a tit of themselves”

    25secs?? Set the FiA dogs on him..

  42. Shameless Disgusting FIA. The poor Bourdais’s career in F1 is already at risk.

  43. Can stewards be bought? How much does one cost?

  44. David Watkins
    12th October 2008, 13:38

    Yet again one wakes up to see a race result shamelessly manipulated and with Ferrari as the beneficiary. They are making it up as they go along and feel able to because mugs like me will keep on watching.

    Well not any more.

    I’ll probably watch to see if LH can get the title but next year I think I’ll be doing something else with F1 Sundays.

  45. Ha Ha we love stirring up controversy, that’s our real job!!

  46. Can someone please tell me what is going on? The FIA request that huge changes take place regarding aero packages etc in time for 2009 in order to ‘improve the show’; increase overtaking and so on. What difference will it make if, whenever anyone tries to pull a manouevre, especially against a Ferrari, they invariably receive a penalty. I have watched this sport since Senna and Mansell were dicing in the early nineties and I desperately want to maintain interest in the sport I love but, with each passing race, this is becoming increasingly difficult to do. Remove Ferrari and lets get back to racing

  47. So much hysteria over such a routine incident. Starting with the Ferrari Intervention Association and then the reaction of all our comments.

    None of this would be relevant if my driver, Hambone, had the patience not to attempt to win the race at the first turn of the first lap.

    Max Mosley is consistently redirecting the sport from competitive racing (green intiatives, common everything) and needs to distract our attention by the antics of the regulators. Vince McMahon should be the next FIA president, at least they don’t have any pretenses in the WWF, you know it’s scripted and just go along with the show.

  48. edit: just realised this was for position – i thought massa was trying to unlap himself on bourdais at the time.

  49. ***! How on earth is that right? It was even commented on at the time and afterwards by Brundle who said he couldn’t see Bourdais getting penalised. Massa cut him off, Bourdais had the racing line and he had cleared the pit exit lane demarcation line. How could he be in the wrong?

    Anyway, somebody asked for a precedent so here it is….

    Spa 2008, Hamilton penalised for tussle with Raikonnen. Look at the facts…. 1. Hamilton had the line going into the chicane… 2. There was a Ferrari involved… 3. F1 is corrupt…. 4. The Stewards are on drugs or blind or were watching a different race or are being paid a retainer by Ferrari.

    Never thought I would side with a Frenchman but Bourdais has been mistreated although he has learnt a valuable lesson… never race a Ferrari in F1.

  50. Where the stewards watching the race with their eyes or just using the force. Why didn’t they just give penalties to the other six drivers to give massa the lead. And not to mention the “sportsman like” ferrari mechanics cheering as Massa knocked Hamilton out of the race. I can’t remember the exact quote but after the race Massa said something like he has a good relationship with Hamilton. Well if I was him I shouldn’t be looking for a christmas card from him or Bourdais this year. This whole thing is just a farce. Not only that but it saddens me that this year’s championship seems as though it’s going to be decided by mechanical failure, human error and of course steward’s penalties, instead of great driving.

  51. I saw this in an internet site:
    1) Overtaking a Ferrari is not permitted under any circumstances.
    2) In the pit lane, a Ferrari always has precedence over other cars.
    3) Any driver finishing less than 25 seconds ahead of a Ferrari will be penalized 25 seconds.*
    4) If neither Ferrari finishes in first place, the stewards reserve the right to declare the result null and void (or to adjust it as necessary).
    5) Only Ferrari drivers are permitted to use anything other than ‘designated’ parts of a circuit.
    6) If forced off the ‘designated’ part of the track by a Ferrari, the guilty driver should immediately crash his car and return to the pits
    6) Any driver or team appealing against any FIA decision in favour of Ferrari may be subject to a fine and/or the deduction of points.
    *Subject to post-race adjustment by the stewards.

    Justice does not live in F1.

  52. This penalty sucks!
    I don’t think that’s Bourdais’s fault!
    I think it’s just a accident!
    FIA Ferrari International Assistance

  53. Ok,

    What the heck, I got to wonder what the stewards are thinking this year. Hamilton gets a penalty for makeing Kimi go to the right (I dont get that one). Massa got a penalty to for something (well sounds fair so far). I cant say about those two on right or wrong, but how was Sebass at fault. It looks like a racing incident to me. How dose the guy on the inside of the track cause the accident? I am not one for conspiracy’s but damn the record over this year sure seems to play in the Red’s favor. Just my 2 cents.

  54. I just have to say one more thing. In America I hear fans complain about how bad NASCAR is a consitancy of the rules. I tell them watch a season of F1. I love the racing and the cars. I can handel the lack of passing and the domination of one car but come on get the rules straight. Just my 2 cents.

  55. 25 Seconds for Bourdais for racing his line and doing a fine job of it all race and Massa racing around like and idiot closes the door and runs into him and the GIVE BOURDAIS 25 SECONDS !!!
    Why doesn’t the FIA change their name to Ferrari and get it over and done with.
    They only gave Massa a drive thru for taking out the leader of the championship by putting for tyres of the track but a guy who’s keeping his line on the track 25.
    I’m almost quitting this great sport because it is so biased, there are rules for Ferrari and there are different rules for everybody else. I just hope Massa does what he does best “choke” in China and Lewis wins it and rubs it in the FIA’S FACE. He’s black, he’s young and he drives a silver car.

  56. I make that a good ten points Bourdais has lost this year from incedents that weren’t his fault.
    It’s not just the fact that the penalty is illogical. Bourdais is fighting for his drive and he can’t afford these kind of hits. It’s a shame as I don’t think he’s been as bad as he’s painted this year.

  57. by awarding a point to massa,it shows how F1 has been operating lately on favor of Ferrari.Ferrari do not have to win the race.F1 does the job of awarding them points.

  58. I’m so fed up and bored of these appalling stewards’ decisions. There’s no logic. There’s no consistency. There’s no sense.

    I got angry over what happened in Belgium. Now I realise it’s not worth my health – much like getting up at 4am on a Sunday to watch a race ruined by daft stewardship.

    F1 – clean up your act. We’d be better off without race stewards at the moment.

  59. Maybe this is the FIA’s new plan for encouraging more overtaking in the ‘sport’ — all cars must let a following Ferrari pass them or be penalised.

  60. I hope Bourdais keeps his STR ride and doesn’t lose it because of this.

  61. Massa did that mistake, although i dont believe a penalty should be given to anyone. And for sure STR wont appel. (sorry for my english)

  62. 2008 FIA ( Ferrari International Assistance ) Official Rule Book.

    Section 2.02

    No other F1 car is allowed to make a mockery out of the Scuderia Ferrari team . Teams especially Vodafone McLaren Mercedes and BMW Sauber and AT&T Williams and ING Renault F1 team and Panasonic Toyota Racing and Honda Racing F1 Team and Red Bull racing and Scuderia Toro Rosso and Force India.

    If any of those teams make a mockery out of the F1.08 Ferrari car , then we shall have no option but to put them to shame by giving them unconditional penalties.

    This Rule book cannot be ammended.

  63. What the ****.
    They were racing for position, Bourdais was ahead with the inside line.
    As I see it if anyone was at fault it was Massa. His penalty, his spin, nothing needed to be done.

    The stewards are independent and unbiased ???????????????????
    Should that read Ferrari biased ?????????????

    They need a truly independent steward.
    I’d suggest a retired driver needs to be installed as a steward. Not Schumaker! or any driver Ferrari biased.
    The one who springs to mind is Coulthard, an experienced driver who’s unbiased.
    If not it needs an older retired driver.

  64. this is completely unfathomable and unjustifiable. i am speechless.

  65. I have just realised what the F stands for in F1, its ferrari. The sport is nothing more than a joke now, it seems that if ferraris arent good enough to win on the track the stewards will cheat thmem up the order. I have had enough of the ferrari are formula 1 attitude. when will the govening body realise that most fans hate ferrari and love it when they fail. I say lets ban ferrari from all F1 competitions.

  66. Dear lord this has got to be a joke? It looked ot me as if Sebastian was staying as close to the apex as poss and Massa just turned in on him? Poor guy, hope he keeps his drive next year.

    The commentators mentioned Massa’s pass on Webber, does anyone know if this is even being looked at by the stewards? If not are say McClaren allowed to bring it to their attention?

  67. well done FIA(Ferrari International Assistance)

  68. Who are these faceless Stewards?
    Can they not be forced to come out and explain exactly what they saw which the rest of the world saw differently?
    Absolute Farce = F1 these days!!!

  69. I think some of us are being a bit slow here.

    Inconsistent application of penalties? The stewards’ rulings are completely consistent, race to race – almost without exception, they favour Ferrari and screw Ron’s team at every turn, that’s how consistent they are. Let’s stop with the “inconsistent” thing.

    And, after Spa, Monza ’06, and about 50 other cases I could list, can we really express SHOCK and OUTRAGE and INCREDULITY when a penalty like Bourdais’ is levied? Really?

    I was worked up after Spa because I love the place, and I had been completely sucked in by a spellbinding race. I have spent many track days at that circuit and so to see such a spectacle as Lewis vs. Kimi in the rain in the dying laps was…quite a thing, while it lasted. For a moment we all forgot about the simple political agenda of the FIA under Max. But the truth is we’re just being dumb now if we’re even looking for fairness in the rulings. Donnelly, Mosley’s right hand man, is “leading” the stewards’ investigations and then withholding his name from the rulings. We know this from Spa – it is not in dispute. At the court of appeal we learned that the FIA is now willing to simply fabricate evidence to avoid having to rule on a penalty that would reverse the points theft at Spa. We know this, too.

    So, can we really sit here anymore and say, in exasperated tones “Bourdais did nothing wrong!” and “he was far over to the right!” or “loads of drivers have pushed others wide when fighting for position!” when these rulings happen? Really? The annual pound of flesh is being extracted, that’s all. You know the agenda, we all do. There might be some intellectual interest in figuring out what Lewis’s points lead would be in the absence of all the rigging (well over 20 points, in my estimation) but isn’t it time we saw this for what it is and moved on?

    In my case, this is the first race in years that I didn’t actually watch, from end to end, such is my certain knowledge that there is no title fight at all going on and my belief that the value of results and WDC/ WCC titles has been obliterated. A Ferrari WDC or WCC “title” by a slender points margin (as either will surely now be) simply has no value – it’s as simple as that. This point will be lost in the celebrations at Interlagos if Massa “wins” the WDC in his home race by a few points this year, but that won’t make it any less true.

    Normally I watch everything, practice, all the grid interviews and every lap of every race but this morning, for very clear reasons, I simply watched the first couple of laps and then fast-forwarded through the rest of the thing, picking out only the highlights, while reading the results and the “outrage” about the latest rulings from Donnelly online. Took me about 10 minutes. I’m about to buy new tyres for two cars and, as has been the case for almost 10 years now, none of them will be made by Bridgestone. As I said after Spa, saying “that’s it, I’m done with F1” is all too melodramatic but I will continue to boycott Formula 1 products, will never attend a race again (at least unless there is a coup in the FIA) and I watch and read F1 less, and less, and less.

  70. The first thing that comes to mind is what the hell :O What will be next ? a 25 second penalty for the ferrari fuel men for touching Massa’s car? I don’t dislike Massa or anything like that but this is getting ridiculous..

  71. So then another weekends racing is overshadowed by questionable decisions taken by the stewards after the race is over. The only winner being, whom? Do these events bring credit to Ferrari where by they are awarded points after the event with what appear to be almost normal regularity? No they cheapen the red team, diminishing the event even further, sadly all pretence of it being regarded as a sport was erased when a German in red car claimed to have won fairly a world championship by ramming a d.hill off the track way back when.

  72. Autosport article with Bourdais opinions…
    Maybe they should have a Massa flag..similar to the blue one..”hey Massa is approaching,pit,get of track, don’t let him touch him and say thank you”

  73. To my mind the really dodgy thing about the stewards decision was their in-race announcement that the incident would be investigated after the race, even though it happened with 17 laps to go.

    This can only leave us with the impression that it was to buy them time to figure out how they could engineer the incident to Massa’s advantage and, I believe, deny Bourdais the chance to appeal.

    This is incredibly unfair to Bourdais who was at last proving to his bosses that he has every right to a drive in F1.

  74. Well said Sean. Donnelly & Mosely are the poison from within F1, and I admire your boycott.

  75. Can stewards be bought? How much does one cost?

    I think the going rate is an F430

  76. I’m surprised there’s this much commenting on the incident. I don’t think either driver did anything wrong in this incident; that’s probably recorded in the liveblog as well.

  77. What a Joke! I had a sinking feeling when I saw that there was going to be a “investigation”. If it was going to be against Ferrari they would have decided before the end of the race for media reasons (or making FIA look rediculous). This decision laughts in the face of formula one. They are in finacial trouble and are continually alienating people. Of course STR if able would never appeal this decision as they have actually gained from it. Vettel is now higher up in points and they would probably prefer to keep Ferrari as their engine supplier. Seb is the loser in this one for sure, let me predict he will lose his contract and everything will continue in F1 as it always has. I know Seb really wants to do F1 and he knew coming in about its shortfalls. Personally I believe he is better off out of F1 though I am not too sure if he will have option to return to his old Champ/indy team Newman/Hass/Lanigan next year as they may not be around.

  78. Once again, the Mosley boys come up smelling of roses.
    Bourdais exits the pits into turn one as a speeding Massa hurtles down the main straight. As they are fighting for track position, Bourdais holds his line. He cannot move right or he would be off the circuit, and he cannot move left otherwise he will cross the white pit exit line and incur a drive through penalty.
    By holding his line, he incurred the wrath of the FIA, which cost him three points and 6th place, and promoted a Ferrari to 7th with two points. The nine remaining teams might just as well pull out of F1, and let Ferrari have their moment of glory for the last two races, and maybe next season when Max Mosley has gone, there might be some fairness in the decisions made instead of this “nanny state” culture, where drivers are afraid to race professionally, without be terrified by the thought of a penalty hanging over them. Roll on 2009.

  79. Strange how the Formula 1 web site shows Sebs quote before the penalty. How is it that when there was a “change in the results” after the race both Ferrari and McClaren drivers quotes are edited to after the race where as the other drivers quotes are posted with no edits? I am sure he would have some “nice” comments to make about this ruling. Probably not praising the FIA or the stewards.

  80. I haven’t seen any on-board footage from Bourdais.
    From the TV view it looked no different than when Nakajima tried to go around Coulthard @ Monza. He cut in too early and caught his rear wheel on the front wheel.

    Did Coulthard get a penalty from this @ Monza? No he didn’t. It was deemed a racing incident.

    Bourdais may have left the pits but he was on the inside of the corner. It’s up to both drivers to respect each other and give room. This was nothing more than a racing incident. Because Massa came off worse, he will feel aggrieved about it and that is understandably.

    I don’t feel angry at Massa’s comments though, more amused. Not taking the blame for any incident is rule number 1 for any driver that is going to win a world championship.


    So according to this website stewards contradicte advices given by race director Charlie Whiting to drivers. So I wonder who are the stewards in Japan and who pay them for doing the job (maybe Montezemolo) ? Are they the same as in Belgium ?

    I think FIA should need to have inactive drivers as stewards (Stewart, Prost, Lauda for example) and we should not see anymore decision like yesterday and in Belgium.

  82. Cant we stop moaning about this and do something? I have sent a mail of complaint to the website – not that it will do much good. There needs to be an uprising, the teams are going to have to stand up to this. We need to appeal to anyone who has influence over the FIA to lobby these people into doing something. Its insanely frustrating – they have gone too far this time – i want action not reaction!!!!

  83. I can’t remember a season with so many unprecedented and/or pointless penalties.

  84. There have been a great many penalties because the stewards were explicitly told to be tough on breaches at the start of this season.

    The problem with telling them to be tough is that every steward seems to have their own idea of what is a fair penalty and what is going too far. If only this stuff was written in, say, a rulebook. A penalty for a loss of control at the first corner is pretty unprecidented, that sort of incident occurs all the time. I would love to see their reasoning for giving one this time.

    The Bourdais penalty is the worst decision I have ever seen, worse than any other we have seen this season.

  85. Re: “Cant we stop moaning about this and do something?”, let’s boycott F1 products. I’ve been doing this for years.

    Does anyone know how to start an online petition saying “until this stops the undersigned are boycotting all F1 attendance, merchandise and sponsor’s products”? Toothless petitions like the one after Spa are routinely ignored, but in a severe downturn in the world economy, if I were Panasonic or Bridgestone or Shell, I’d take notice if big petitions were going around saying “your involvement in this F1 farce is going to cost you sales”.

    This is one of few ways I can think of to have a voice. If you stop watching altogether, it goes unrecorded and you have no voice at all. You get replaced by ten Chinese and no-one cares. But we disgusted Westerners still have buying power, and now is the time to hit them where it hurts.

    I have toyed with buying only products not on the offender’s register – if I lived in Europe I might have a Vodafone phone for example. But it’s too complex. The last time I knowingly bought an F1 product was a Panasonic plasma, 3 or 4 years ago, on the basis that Toyota is hurting no-one. But now I just try to avoid everything, I actually drive past a Shell station every few days in order to shop elsewhere.

  86. I really can’t think of any other reason why this penalty has been awarded to Bourdais, other than trying to fix the Championship.

  87. Wow I’m really confused now… so the guy exiting the pit travelling down the pit exit lane gets penalised. So where should he drive and what should he have done exactly… oh yea… pull over, close your eyes, count to 100, apologies for being unworthy to be on the same track with the almighty red Ferrari, pray for forgiveness because you are an unholy unrighteous repulsive sinner? Lets face it, Massa should have made room for Bourdais in the same way he should have made way for Lewis after being comprehensibly and legitimately overtaken.

    Furthermore it seems there needs to be clarification regarding cars on track supposedly not being allowed to cross over the exit lane white line as we saw on several occasions.

    I’ll give the FIA one thing… the are consistent in their inconsistency. Why don’t they just say at the beginning of each season that the F1 championship already has its champion and possible runner up (depending on how inconsistent and vindictive they feel), and that it is Ferrari. The other placings are up to the rest of you guys subject to our whims of course. Job done… and we all know where we stand!

  88. I can just about live with the Hamilton penalty but the Bourdais penalty is ridiculous. Would we rather that F1 drivers never bothered to try and overtake for fear of a penalty?

    Whatever happened to ‘racing incidents’?

    Stewards clearly want Ferrari to win the championship.

    Appalling decision.

  89. I have toyed with buying only products not on the offender’s register – if I lived in Europe I might have a Vodafone phone for example.

    Eh? Vodaphone is part of F1 – a very big part. Or is it because it’s (currently) McLaren it’s OK?

    I do, however, admire your stance and vigilance despite disagreeing with you.

    Would we rather that F1 drivers never bothered to try and overtake for fear of a penalty?

    I don’t see how the Bourdais incident has anything to do with overtaking? (other than Massa getting it royally wrong!)

  90. Absolutely Bonkers.
    When the message came up onthe screen that the Massa Bourdais incident was going to be investigated I was quite happy because Massa probably deserved a penalty.
    Then realisation dawned and I just knew it would be Bourdais who got penalised. What a joke. Poor Seb
    As for the inside overtake on Webber. Another dodgy move although he would have got him eventually.
    I was going to go to Silverstone next year. Was gonna book this week.
    Not now.
    What a biased farce.

  91. Following the penalty Bourdais was asked what he should have done to prevent the accident with Massa. “I should have pulled out the red carpet” was his response. Enough said!!!

    It has now become time for the stewards to publish detailed analysis and reasoning for the decisions they make. They have a duty and responsibility to the teams and several hundreds of millions of fans. FIA has a chance to regain some integrity if they so choose… but they sadly won’t.

  92. Yes, I meant that since Vodafone sponsors the team that is the current (actually long-time now) victim and apparent target of most of the rigging of results, maybe it’s OK to exempt them from the boycott. But, as I went on to say, these distinctions are hard to make so I actually prefer to boycott ALL F1 products if I can.

    I’m just passing on the whole thing. I don’t expect fairness or even racing to be allowed in Shanghai and, amazingly for me (a 30-odd year F1 fan), what should be an exciting season climax is going to be a case of, at best, fast-forward and heavy use of the “jump” button on the DVR. I really can’t be bothered with getting all emotionally involved with whatever “fight” takes place on the track, only to discover that that’s not what I’ve been watching after all. Perhaps I’ll wait until Max’s vendetta has blown over the sport and (if I’m still alive) pick up again when things are a bit better. For the moment, there are better ways to spend one’s time.

  93. yorricksfriend
    15th October 2008, 11:41

    the inconsistency is what staggers me

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