Engine rules tweak can’t keep Red Bull off front row

40 comments on “Engine rules tweak can’t keep Red Bull off front row”

1. 

   Icthyes (@icthyes)
   25th June 2011, 17:40

   Pretty much as was expected. Massive props for doing the numbers as ever!
   1. 

      Trix (@)
      25th June 2011, 18:59

      This. Thanks Keith for all this number crunching. You must have some statistics-trained monkeys hidden in the basement to do all of this and so quickly.

      I love being able to compare the times between the drivers, between the races and between the seasons. Makes it so much more interesting and it’s a great help to see if a certain gap (*cough* Red Bull versus the rest of the pack *cough*) has indeed been closed down or if our imagination is playing tricks on us.
   2. 

      BasCB (@bascb)
      25th June 2011, 19:41

      Yep, glad I chose to skip this far an amazing movie about Lidice (backgroung here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidice) instead.

      It was pretty emotional but a well made movie for sure. And we had seats with adaptable positioning and full service during the watching!
      1. 

         Trix (@)
         26th June 2011, 10:59

         Finally saw Sarah’s Key earlier this week, Bas, not sure I’m up for Lidice at the moment.
         But since everyone is raving about it, I am most certainly going to find some free time all by myself to see it in the next couple of weeks.
         For sure.
2. 

   ed24f1 (@ed24f1)
   25th June 2011, 17:44

   An amazing stat is that over the past three races, if you take the aggregate of the fastest times in qualifying of the Mercedes drivers, they are equal, to three decimals!

   Monaco: Schumacher -0.059s (vs. Rosberg in Q2)
   Canada: Rosberg -0.050s
   Europe: Rosberg -0.009s

   At Monaco, Rosberg’s Q2 time was faster than his Q3 time.
   1. 

      Chris
      25th June 2011, 18:09

      Must say, it is great to see Schumi back on it.

      I was hardly a fan during his prime, but I now cheer him on.
      1. 

         Antifia
         26th June 2011, 8:34

         Is he back? He is maybe as good as Nico Rosberg now….
   2. 

      BasCB (@bascb)
      25th June 2011, 19:12

      That is a fascinating stat ed24f1!
3. 

   Ralph Schumacher
   25th June 2011, 17:51

   True red bull is on the front row but i suspect the engine mode is still a bit higher that other teams’. The RB7 did seem to be spemding a bit too long on the red line, possibly we will see some reliability issues arise during the grand prix tomorrow?
   1. 

      Quin10-10
      25th June 2011, 20:05

      As all the off-throttle combustion occurs in the exhaust system it shouldn’t really affect the engine, especially at only 10% throttle opening. Also, current rev limits are far below capability. Don’t foresee any problem there but I do miss the days when one would sometimes go BOOM.
      1. 

         cyanide (@cyanide)
         25th June 2011, 20:36

         It surely does. Off-throttle combustion/retarding the ignition can melt and destroy valves and exhaust headers, not to mention skyrocketing temps that can melt bodywork.
         1. 

            cyanide (@cyanide)
            25th June 2011, 20:36

            Exhaust valves, specifically.
      2. 

         Paul A (@paul-a)
         25th June 2011, 23:58

         Incorrect. All combustion starts at the point of ignition (spark plug) and close to the fuel injection point – both at the top of the cylinder. Engine mapping (ignition and valve timing) allow a decrease in piston pressure (less horse power to be absorbed by the brakes) with the practical result that more gasses are still being burnt after, or downstream of, the exhaust valve.

         As “cyanide” points out this can have adverse effects. However, most of these effects are due to extremely complex harmonics, not “skyrocketing temps”. The absolute temperatures of the burning gasses will not change although their distribution will move further downstream (i.e. into the exhaust system.) The harmonics of the back pressures are likely to be the killers of the exhaust valves.
4. 

   MVEilenstein
   25th June 2011, 17:54

   HRT 6th and 12th fastest in the speed traps is clearly a function of a strong engine but no downforce. Any time they make up on the straights is lost as soon as they lift.

   Still, they are beginning to close the gap on Virgin and Lotus. Good for them. Imagine what they could do with a little more money.
5. 

   Fixy (@)
   25th June 2011, 17:56

   I don’t like drivers not even trying to improve their position – sure, Sutil would have been 10th anyway, but F1’s spirit is to fight, never surrender.
   1. 

      MVEilenstein (@mveilenstein)
      25th June 2011, 17:58

      F1′s spirit is to fight, never surrender

      Felipe Massa would beg to differ.
      1. 

         ed24f1 (@ed24f1)
         25th June 2011, 18:09

         Example?
         1. 

            Icthyes (@icthyes)
            25th June 2011, 18:19

            I think he’s referring to Hockenheim.
            1. 

               MVEilenstein (@mveilenstein)
               25th June 2011, 18:22

               Yes.
            2. 

               Rob
               25th June 2011, 18:45

               Letting Alo past is probably the only reason he is still driving for Ferrari today. He sure doesn’t have the speed to drive one of the red cars.
            3. 

               OEL F1 (@oel-f1)
               25th June 2011, 22:41

               So, MVEilenstein, what would you have done in that situation? Refused and left F1?
            4. 

               Mike
               26th June 2011, 7:29

               @Rob Then neither did Kimi.
            5. 

               ed24f1 (@ed24f1)
               26th June 2011, 7:47

               So that makes Raikkonen, Schumacher, Berger, Coutlhard, Moss, Peterson, G Villeneuve, Collins etc. non-fighters as well as they’ve sacrificed their own races to help their team-mates over the years…

               Not to mention drivers like Hill or Hamilton who have retired, or wanted to retire, a healthy car.
            6. 

               Todfod (@todfod)
               26th June 2011, 9:38

               Gotta agree with Rob. As harsh as it sounds, Massa is on the Red team just to help Alonso, and not because of his abilities.

               @ed24f1. I dont remember the time Hamilton wanted to retire a healthy car… when was this?
            7. 

               ed24f1 (@ed24f1)
               26th June 2011, 12:01

               @Todfod – Europe 2009, after his puncture on the first lap.

               It’s rubbish to suggest that Massa is only at Ferrari to help Alonso and not due to his ability – he helped them to 2 Constructors Championships, and has won 11 races for them so far.

               Only Schumacher, Lauda and Ascari have EVER won more races for Ferrari in the F1-era by my calculations.
   2. 

      dau
      25th June 2011, 19:05

      He didn’t surrender, it’s more like some sort of tactical retreat. By not running, he may have lost the chance for a better place in qualifying, but improved his chances for the battle that actually counts: the race.
   3. 

      AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner)
      25th June 2011, 22:22

      Hmm I disagree Fixy. You don’t get any points for qualifying. Play the long game and try to secure as many points for tomorrow as possible.

      That IS the best place for your fighting spirit.
   4. 

      OEL F1 (@oel-f1)
      25th June 2011, 22:42

      Sutil wants points.
   5. 

      DVC
      26th June 2011, 0:34

      F1 is about using the rules to win the race. If you think your best chance of winning is to not run qualifying at all, then that’s what you do.
6. 

   Lagavulin
   25th June 2011, 19:11

   It seems that only Rosberg, Petrov, Maldonado, Buemi, Vettel, Webber, Alonso, Hamilton saved 1 set of new softer tyres. Alguersuari has got 2.
   Petrov is the first driver in grid who can start on new soft tyres..

   waiting for keith’s analysis
   1. 

      Adrian Morse
      25th June 2011, 19:15

      Vettel, Alonso, and Hamilton all went out for a second run and aborted half way, so they didn’t exactly save a set.
      1. 

         VXR
         25th June 2011, 19:29

         Hamilton locked his front tyres up at turn one on his last flying lap. He aborted it shortly after.

         All the Ferrari, McLaren and Red Bull drivers used their tyre allocation pretty much the same as each other.

         Not sure about the McLaren’s pace on the medium tyre. Should last well though. Two or three stops on the cards for most.
         1. 

            Lagavulin
            25th June 2011, 19:50

            All the Ferrari, McLaren and Red Bull drivers used their tyre allocation pretty much the same as each other.

            don’t think so.. Button “stressed” all 3 new softer tyres with 3 flying laps. And probably Webber too, but i am not so sure. So little advantage for Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, even if none has a really new set.
   2. 

      JamesAlrawazik
      25th June 2011, 22:02

      Lagavulin. I think I’m right in saying that it’s actually Heidfeld who’s the first driver on the grid who can start on new soft tyres, not Petrov??
7. 

   AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner)
   25th June 2011, 22:20

   Wow, never noticed the HRT so high on the speed chart before, not bad!

   I think it was a wise decision by both Sutil and Heidfeld (or rather their respective teams) to not run in Q3. I would expect a good race from Heidfeld especially tomorrow. Would be difficult to justify anything less than what he qualified with.
8. 

   MVEilenstein
   25th June 2011, 23:00

   No idea what you’re talking about.
9. 

   Adam Tate (@adam-tate)
   25th June 2011, 23:41

   Nice to see Schumi and Massa running their team mates so close. They both seemed to be on it in Canada and it will be great if they can keep that momentum going this weekend!
10. 

    Antifia
    26th June 2011, 8:42

    The engine rule may not have done the job, but perhaps the blown exaust’s rule will. It is so shameful how the F1 big wigs go around managing the show. I, for one, believe Formula 1 is part of the entertainment industry (like any sporting event) but these guys should try to understand what entertains F1 fans – what they are doing is just irritating. And there is that underlying feeling that who they really want up front is a Ferrari.
11. 

    J Button Fan
    26th June 2011, 8:54

    change the damn regulations on tires! they are absurd and annoying. separate the qualifying tires and the race tires for starters. the damn FIA comes up with crazy rules sometimes!
12. 

    Lagavulin
    26th June 2011, 10:26

    @JamesAlrawazik
    yeah it could be. we can’t know for sure if he used the same set in Q2, but in this case he has got a brand new set of softer tyres. Good

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