Daniel Ricciardo, Red Bull, Hungaroring, 2015

Ricciardo staying at Red Bull in 2016 – Horner

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Daniel Ricciardo, Red Bull, Hungaroring, 2015In the round-up: Christian Horner denies Daniel Ricciardo could leave Red Bull to join Ferrari next year.

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Daniel Ricciardo's Red Bull contract watertight - Horner (ESPN)

"Asked whether Ricciardo's contract for 2016 was 'watertight', Horner replied: 'Absolutely.'"

Hakkinen sees Vettel as title threat (F1i)

"Vettel is currently very convincing and his performances are top notch."

Hockenheim offers cheaper tickets to entice fans (Reuters)

"Organisers said advance sales for 2016 would start on Friday - exactly a year before the July 31 race - with a revised 'family friendly' pricing structure."

McLaren's season has 'really started' (Autosport)

"On the control side things are very good, so we will apply more power output for Spa and Monza, both power circuits."

A life and times with McLaren: Tyler Alexander - Part Two (McLaren)

"After the race and all the usual 'thank-you' stuff, Ayrton made a point of thanking the little group of us working on the gear-change project. He said that being able to keep both hands on the steering wheel at all times had helped him hold off Nigel for those last few laps."

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Comment of the day

Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, Hungaroring, 2015
Ferrari won in Hungary but were they quicker than Mercedes – or just one of them:

Another comparison between Hamilton and Vettel can be seen when they were both on soft tyres in the middle stint. Hamilton was in clean air after getting past Ricciardo on lap 29, and before encountering a large group of backmarkers on lap 38. In this period he closed the gap to Vettel from 34.32s to 30.66s over nine laps (an average advantage of 0.407s per lap to Hamilton). As Pete Bonnington pointed out, Hamilton’s advantage was 9 tenths at its peak – from lap 30 to lap 33, Hamilton’s laps were eight to nine tenths faster than Vettel’s, which was due to quick laps from Hamilton rather than anomalous slow laps from Vettel. Hamilton was surely pushing harder than Vettel during those four laps, but his tyres weren’t any newer (they were actually two laps older than Vettel’s at the time). Hamilton had a lot of pace in the Mercedes, and was surely the fastest driver/car package in the race.

Both Ferraris were faster than Rosberg, but clearly slower than Hamilton. Rosberg was over half a second off Hamilton in qualifying, and based on their respective lap times it seems that he carried a similarly large deficit to Hamilton into the race. As previously mentioned, Rosberg was struggling with understeer in his balance throughout the weekend, which goes some way to explaining why he was so far behind Hamilton on pace and why the Ferraris pulled away from him. If we assume that Hamilton indeed had a pace advantage of around 0.2 – 0.4s per lap over the Ferraris (as their lap times suggest), then if Hamilton had held the lead into the first corner his pace would have probably translated into a lead of around 14-28 seconds over the course of the 69 laps (assuming no safety cars).

Under normal conditions I think Mercedes still had a considerable performance advantage in Hungary.
@Polo

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On this day in F1

A win for Kimi Raikkonen and a no-score for Fernando Alonso breathed some life back into the 2005 championship contest at the Hungarian Grand Prix ten years ago today.

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  • 87 comments on “Ricciardo staying at Red Bull in 2016 – Horner”

    1. Regarding COTD… by that point Vettel had a huge gap over the Mercs, and a sizable gap over Räikkönen as well, so it’s doubtful he was pushing as hard as he could have. But then again maybe he was. It’s certainly difficult to compare.

      1. What a pointless thing to analyze actually. What’s the point? He didn’t lead the race, at all. Being faster for 10 laps there 5 lap there doesn’t really say you should have won. Then Vettel should have won in Canada.
        People expect robots instead of drivers and all the races to be processionals going according to the “plan”. Then they complain when someone underperforms/overperforms and say “actually he should/shouldn’t have won”. Yeah? I don’t think so. What’s the point of going racing at the first place then.
        Was there ever a suspicion Mercedes were supposed to be faster anyway?

        1. The point of the analysis was to try to determine the gap between Mercedes and Ferrari so we can have even a remote idea of how the rest of the championship may unfold.

          It had nothing to do with who should/would have won.

          1. +1, and I agree with the analysis.

            1. @david-a Dude, your avatar is great. Do you happen to have a link to the full picture? :)

            2. maarten.f1 (@)
              31st July 2015, 6:53

              @david-a @Albert Here’s a version with the original dimensions

        2. The point is Henry, you are dealing with F1 Fanatics. EVERYTHING will be analysed! :)

      2. Totally agree with you @US_peter! At that point Vettel was likelier to pace himself with Rosberg and not Hamilton who was a remote threat to him at that point. It was much more logical for Vettel, given that he had a rear gunner to preserve his tyres and lengthen his stint which became moot when Safety car came in.

      3. You can analyze almost any race from the point of “Between laps x and y, the driver who won the race was slower than some other driver who finished the race behind him”.

        The Mercedes is still the quickest car on the grid by a ways, but we don’t need to look at some cherry-picked laps from Lewis in Hungary to know that.

        1. The weren’t “cherry-picked” though. They were the only laps in which Vettel and Hamilton were in somewhat similar conditions: clean air and same tyre compound.

          (It should be noted though, that since Vettel was leading comfortably while Hamilton was recovering, so it ignores if/how much they were conserving/pushing).

          1. the point in your parenthetical contradicts your first sentence about similar conditions. Leading the race versus catching up. Hamilton was at times faster than Rosberg in Spain, but Rosberg was also cruising at the front, conserving the engine and tires.

            I believe Ricciardo and Hamilton were exchanging fastest laps at the end when both were on soft tires and running in clean air as well.

            1. @uan

              the point in your parenthetical contradicts your first sentence about similar conditions. Leading the race versus catching up.

              Hence the “somewhat” :)

    2. Very strange statement from the Red Bull.

      1. What stament?, it was an interview (about Riccardo I´m assuming yu are talking)

    3. i can agree, this is a pointless thing to analyse. Ferrari won because they did a completely clean race and all everyone can ever think of is How Hamilton COULD have Won?
      I mean what is the point of thinking how Hamilton could have won while Vettel won?
      what is the bloody point?

      1. @sameercader The point made was that the W06 still appeared to have superior race pace to the SF15-T. Therefore expectations of more Ferrari wins should be kept in check.

      2. ColdFly F1 (@)
        31st July 2015, 8:56

        @sameercader, I think those comparisons are interesting but any conclusion should be taken with a grain of salt.
        My analysis based on the lap and pace charts looks slightly different though:
        Another comparison between Hamilton and Vettel can be seen when they both passed the finish line after lap 69. Vettel passed the start-finish line after lap 69 first, and therefore was the fastest over the full race distance. Hamilton passed the line later and therefore was slower on this day!

        1. But Hamilton wasn’t slower than Vettel, he just had a bad start, went off the track and then drove straight into another car, all of these things which lost him way too much time. Rosberg, however, was definitely slower than Vettel.

          1. @oel-f1, I think you missed @coldfly‘s point!
            You can analyse all ‘coulds’ and ‘what ifs’ but in the end only who finishes first matters.

          2. so was all of Hamilton’s bloody misfortune Vettel’s fault?
            is that what u are suggesting? @oel-f1

            1. @sameercader This is an awesome post.

            2. Yes actually that’s true.
              If you look at both Malaysia and Hungary, Vettel was the cause of Hamilton’s misfortune. These wins were different than last years’ in the sense that there was nothing actually wrong with Mercedes cars. But getting out in front and managing the gap to Mercedes has never been accomplished outside of these 2 instances. Also, in Hungary it was obviously Vettel’s start that forced Hamilton into 4th position, which resulted in an unlikely mistake from Hamilton.
              But, more than “misfortune”, it was the “pressure” on Mercedes/Hamilton applied by Ferrari/Vettel that caused such results. Otherwise Hamilton would have more than likely won those races.

            3. … how far up is your head into Hamiltons rear?

          3. Really, because if I’m not mistaken Vettel won and Hamilton did not, that kind of implies he was quicker does it not, otherwise Hamilton would have won?

        2. If Hamilton had so called superior race pace to Vettel, he could have passed the traffic and challenged Vettel.
          Even during the safety car with such a great oppurtunity Hamilton could not do so!!!
          But Lewis DID NOT challenge Vettel which is simply due to the fact that Hamilton did not have the pace to Sebastian.
          So THAT IS THE SIMPLE FACT – HAMILTON DID NOT HAVE SUPERIOR RACE PACE TO VETTEL
          But Lewis did have superior race comared to NICO

          1. If Hamilton had so called superior race pace to Vettel, he could have passed the traffic and challenged Vettel.

            Hungaroring aint the easiest of circuits to overtake on, and having pace is never a guarantee for being capable of overtaking.

            But Lewis DID NOT challenge Vettel which is simply due to the fact that Hamilton did not have the pace to Sebastian.

            It can be quite tricky to do that when you have your car mounted in the side of a Red Bull you know…

            so was all of Hamilton’s bloody misfortune Vettel’s fault?

            I don’t understand why you think that’s what I ment. Hamilton was the fastert driver in the fastest car in Hungary, but obviously not the best driver. His “misfortune” was simply down to driver errors, which is why Hamilton would never have been a worthy winner of this race. To put it simple, he sucked. But I don’t see how he wasn’t the fastest, in his superior car.

            1. technically the fastest driver of the race was Daniel Ricciardo NOT Hamilton. @oel-f1

          2. Michael27Steel
            31st July 2015, 12:29

            I think in this Hungarian GP, not the car won de race but the most cool headed driver.

            1. the best driver of the day won the race. (in the end a very deserving winner)
              Forza Ferrari!!
              Forza Sebastian!

            2. Yeah. I remember seeing Kvyat ahead of Vettel just before the incident with Hulkenberg. Considering that he was just about lapped and still finished second in the end, everyone must have went crazy and lost a boatload of time with respect to Vettel.

    4. I’m suprised that Ferrari didn’t even speak to Ricciardo for that 2nd seat. I can’t help but think that either Vettel has a veto in his contract for the 2nd seat, or Ferrari are just looking for a solid #2 driver that will not de-stabilise Vettel. If the latter reason is true, I think they couldn’t get a better #2 driver than Bottas.

      1. @todfod Or maybe they don’t rate Ricciardo as high as others do, same with Bottas. Both are proper drivers but got overhyped pretty badly.

        1. Yep, that makes me think they’ll keep Kimi for another final year.

        2. @xtwl

          How can they not rate Ricciardo highly? He beat their #1 driver in his 1st season as teammates together. He took 3 wins as compared to Vettel’s 0 , outqualified and outraced him despite being a newbie in the team.

          1. So watching this season Ricciardo with Kvyat and Vettel in Ferrari doesn’t make you question last season at all then?
            Not that I don’t rate Ricciardo highly. Just last season’s comparisons seem a bit dubious right now.
            I mean Kvyat is on par with Ricciardo atm, behind in the standings by 6 points despite the fact that he didn’t even race in Australia where Ricciardo got 8 points. His finishing position average is better than Ric. He made some rookie errors recently otw he would have made some major points too. And this is his 2nd year in Formula 1 and he is the newbie in the team.
            I don’t think Kvyat is better than Vettel atm though.

            1. Well.. Let’s wait for this season to be complete before we can get an accurate assesment of Kvyat vs Ricciardo. To be honest, I’m not surprised by how close it is between them. During pre season, I had tipped this to be the closest inter team battle because JEV had an equally hard time with both Ricciardo and Kvyat as his teammate. Kvyat is a very quick and talented driver, there is no doubt about that.

              Although Ricciardo beat Vettel comprehensively last year, I’m not saying he is the better driver. I’m saying that how can Ferrari not rate Ricciardo highly?

            2. I’m sure everyone rates Ricciardo highly enough, but OP said “Or maybe they don’t rate Ricciardo AS HIGH AS OTHERS DO”. Not that they don’t rate him highly.
              Of course OP knows better whatever he meant…

            3. @todfod One season does not give an accurate impression of two drivers. Especially not you want to hold three wins against Vettel whilst they all were massively influenced by SC, crashes or ERS problems for the Mercedes duo. Those three wins were in any other situation three great podiums, even in Hungary Vettel was plenty ahead before the SC/dry time.

              The only thing you can say about last season is that Ricciardo adapted quite a lot quicker to the new regs whilst Vettel had his issues mostly because he came from a car with a rear as stable as can be. On top of that he had plenty of issues in almost every single weekend where as Ricciardo did not.

              Kvyat and Ricciardo are fine drivers indeed but I doubt they’ll ever match Vettel again. Ricciardo ‘comprehensively’ beating Vettel last season is just a very handy way of putting things in Ricciardo his favour while there was always more to it.

              So to come back to my point, it’s just a matter of perspective. I would not want to hire Ricciardo if I already had Vettel.

            4. @xtwl

              Especially not you want to hold three wins against Vettel whilst they all were massively influenced by SC, crashes or ERS problems for the Mercedes duo.

              Ummm…I’m pretty sure Vettel also benefited from the reasons that you attribute to Ricciardo’s wins didn’t he? BOTH RedBull drivers were in the races that were massively influenced by the safety car, crashes or problems for the Merc, but in ALL instances, it was Ricciardo who was there to capitalise, because by that stage of each relevant race, he had dispatched Vettel and left him far behind.

              The ONLY thing you can say about last season is that Ricciardo COMPREHENSIVELY out qualified, out raced and out scored Vettel. He smashed him in every sense of the word and I believe he would do it again should he go to Ferrari.

            5. Canada; Vettel got stuck because of a badly times pitstop behind a one-stopping car. Ricciardo meanwhile who was four places behind made it work to overcut him and get ahead. Had Vettel crucially been ahead of that car he would have had the same chances at winning the race.

              Hungary; Again Vettel was ahead, he was the faster RB at that time. Yet he, Rosberg and Alonso all drove past the pits when the SC came out. Meanwhile Hamilton and Ricciardo pitted for dry tires. When the top four came out of the pits they were between P7-12, well behind their rivals who did benefit form the SC. Rosberg would have won this with two fingers in his nose had it not been for that SC. Vettel would have sailed to second almost certainty.

              Spa; The one race where he actually overtook Vettel because he made a mistake at Pouhon. Mercedes due out of the picture and he drove to a proper victory still only made possible because of Rosberg his foolish actions.

              Yes, he won three races but they were hardly the result of masterful driving rather than a string of very fortunate events. I am not saying you don’t need luck to win but in all three Riccardo had plenty.

              So if you look at a wider picture @nick101, you’d see it is hardly black and white and if things had run a little different it could have been Vettel winning in Hungary and Canada.

              Do note I’m not saying Vettel got beaten by Ricciardo last year, but comprehensively is not the right word. Alonso comprehensively beat Kimi, Bianchi comprehensively beat Chilton; ‘Ricciardo, thanks to better luck and reliability and some stunning driving achieved a bigger points haul than Vettel’ is better way to put it if you like.

          2. 3 words – NON COMPETITION CLAUSE.

          3. He took 3 wins as compared to Vettel’s 0 , outqualified and outraced him despite being a newbie in the team.

            This seems to be the new-and-updated “Webber has loads more car problems than Vettel”. It doesn’t matter that its demonstrably false, the people saying it WANT it to be true and that’s all that counts.

            1. It is a matter of fact, not something anyone NEEDS to be true.

      2. Why would Ferrari want to destabilise their number 1 driver? Hiring Ricciardo makes no sense at all.

        1. Unless you hire him as your first driver.

      3. I think Bottas is too fast for being a #2 driver. He surely will keep Vette honest.

        1. He’s a tiny bit better than Massa who’s on par with Raikkonen. Though it might be different results come next year, as both Massa and Raikkonen have had some inconsistent periods chock full of bad luck and incidents.
          I call it Heidfeld’s curse. See: Massa, Raikkonen, Kubica, even Webber.

          1. Nice eye, Heidfeld’s curse seems to be very real indeed. All of his team mates had brutal luck or inconsistent performances at the end of their careers. All the drivers you mentioned have that in common… add Jean Alesi and Heinz-Harald Frentzen to that list too. Kamui Kobayashi could also be on the list… Wow.

            1. I thought some people might not know who Alesi or Frentzen is, but they are included as well.
              It’s because he was faster than all of them, but never picked out by a front runner team like they did.
              Curse of the Quick Nick.

            2. Heidfeld would have been a good call for 2010-12 alongside Rosberg, but of course was gazumped by the returning M. Schumacher.

            3. On the flip side, it would have been interesting to see Schumacher drive 2007, 2008, maybe even 2009.

      4. The thing with Bottas is I’m a bit afraid he’ll turn out to be like Rosberg. Too passive. Like how he didn’t go for the win in Hungary with softer tyres. Though it’s more team’s fault like Monaco. But he also wanted those tyres, maybe because he didn’t think the gap to Vettel would be closed down. Anyway….
        If Ferrari and Mercedes had a closely matched car, Raikkonen would be a lot aggressive than Rosberg and that would seriously affect Ferrari and Vettel’s chances for the championship. Not sure of that with Bottas.

        1. everyone will change their mind when Kim is ordered to let Vet passed,
          because that is how Ferrari operate, we have a number one driver and a number two, number two gives way to number one when we tell him to.
          there is no way Ric is going to Ferrari because of this deal, he would rather die than be told to yield ,

          1. This year Raikkonen and Vettel were left to their own devices on track much more than Red Bull drivers Kvyat and Ricciardo. Vettel and Raikkonen went head to head at starts especially Australia the very first corner. Last race in Silverstone Vettel overtook Raikkonen on track. If he could have caught up with him in Canada we were obviously in for a treat. Same in China with Raikkonen on slightly more fresh tyres at the end. Ferrari never ordered one of them ahead of the other even while they were running close. Drivers are yet to ask to be let through. I only heard this: “I’ll try to overtake him”.
            On the other hand Red Bull ordered Kvyat to let Ricciardo through at least 3 times now. Funny thing is Kvyat still finish ahead in 2 of those times, don’t remember what happened in 1 other case. I also remember Ricciardo being asked to let Kvyat through and Kvyat finishing ahead in that race.

            Of all the times to say what you just did, you picked the wrong one…

          2. there is no way Ric is going to Ferrari because of this deal, he would rather die than be told to yield

            if true that’s a poor reflection on him, since RIC has benefited greatly from team orders in his year and a half at Red Bull.

            1. if true that’s a poor reflection on him, since RIC has benefited greatly from team orders in his year and a half at Red Bull.

              This is nonsense. We’ve already seen Ricciardo yeild for Kyvat without complaint.

          3. there is no way Ric is going to Ferrari because of this deal, he would rather die than be told to yield ,

            This won’t happen, mainly because he’s much quicker than Vettel and will never be in a position to have to yeild.

      5. If Vettel has veto powers, then he would not just veto RIC but also Hulk and Bottas as well. Then, Kimi would be confirmed by now and there wont be anymore speculation on who is going to replace Kimi.

        1. Hulk is probably on par with Hamilton, not sure what Bottas does have to do with them…

          1. i was referring to OP’s suggestion that Vettel has veto power which obviously he doesn’t.

          2. Hulk doesn’t even have a podium. Stop with the Hamilton comparisons

            1. And Hamilton has only ever driven a non front running car for 9 races in his entire F1 career – the first 9 races of 2009 – and his results were appalling. Hulk has proved himself time and again in sub par machinery. Not all F1 drivers began their career with an F1 silver spoon in their mouth.

      6. People underestimate the psychological aspect of racing, along with the relationship between car and the driver.
        Take Hulk and Checo for example, up until Canada Perez was beating his teammate as convincingly as Hulk has ever beaten him. But since then Hulk’s been head and shoulders above his teammate to the point that at the moment he’s performing better than ever in comparison.
        By the way, it doesn’t seem circuit specific either, as last year Hulk’s been even better at the first part than the second part. Only difference from Monaco to Canada was aero updates before the new car came out, and Hulk’s Le Mans foray was set to go.
        So who is the better driver really?

    5. Bottas: “In principle it isn’t fair to Williams or to Kimi, there is nothing confirmed as to what will happen – it will be best just to leave us in peace and we can focus on the driving. When there is news it will be announced.”
      Appreciated. Good form.

    6. ColdFly F1 (@)
      31st July 2015, 8:46

      Watertight isn’t as strong as Airtight!
      Thus as always anything can happen.

    7. When asked about the rumours in June Ricciardo refused to rule out the move and said he did not know the intricacies of his Red Bull contract, which has three years left to run.

      However in Hungary Ricciardo admitted there had been no contact from Ferrari in the three weeks since the British Grand Prix as rumours about Bottas intensified.

      So basically it is Ricciardo who desparately seeks an opportunity at Ferrari.

      1. @malik

        So basically it is Ricciardo who desparately seeks an opportunity at Ferrari.

        You went from “refusing to rule out a move” to “being desperate for an opportunity” without anything in the middle. Logical, that is not.

        1. I agree with that. But he also keeps talking like Ferrari invited him even though both Ferrari and he said that’s not the case. Sounds like PR to me.

        2. Just compare the reaction of Bottas and that of Ricciardo to Ferrari link rumours to know what I mean

          1. @malik I have followed the news; I haven’t seen anything that indicates desperation.

            1. I don’t think he’s desperate. But I can understand how it might seem so. It’s more likely for Bottas to be in Ferrari next year than Ricciardo. Yet looking at their statements Ricciardo looks more excited and talks like it’s a very real possibility despite the fact that his team doesn’t think so and there’s been no contact between him and Ferrari, whereas Bottas said there’s nothing certain and he doesn’t like to talk about it much as it’s getting a bit rude to Williams and Raikkonen.

      2. During the past 5 to 6 seasons, Red Bull has been a class above the Ferrari. Even as poor as they are right now, and as good as Ferrari is this season, they are just slightly behind the Ferrari.

        I don’t think a Red Bull driver would be so ‘desperate’ to jump ship for Ferrari quite yet.

        1. I guess people are already forgetting that Sebastian Vettel was a Red Bull driver once upon a time… LOL

          1. What’s your point? Vettel was desperate for a Ferrari drive?

            He made a difficult decision of leaving a team he won WDCs with for a long term punt with Ferrari. That’s hardly a desperate attempt to abandon ship

            1. Well, to be fair @todfod, Vettel was probably a little desperate to get away from RedBull and Ricciardo. After all, another season of getting utterly demolished by Ricciardo wouldn’t look good would it!

            2. @todfod Vettel knew exactly what he was doing, where Ferrari were heading and how backwards Redbull were going. Not difficult at all

            3. I never said he was desperate. YOU said a driver has to be “desperate” to leave Red Bull for Ferrari. I’m asking “what’s your point?”

      3. People are quibbling with whether Ricciardo is “desperate” to leave RB, but it seems clear enough that he’s a lot more interested in Ferrari than Ferrari are in him.

        Most likely this is just negotiating strategy on his part. Verstappen is looming in the wings at TR, waiting to join the senior team at some point. And based on current performances it is far from automatic that Kvyat will be the RB driver to get pushed aside.

        1. If Kvyat get pushed aside then it will be a good chance for a team like Williams or even Force India to pick a very good driver on the cheap. I think his faster than Perez and both Williams drivers actually.

    8. COTD is about if Ferrari have improved their pace relative to Mercedes and not about if Vettel is faster was faster or slower than Hamilton.

      What I am curious about is why the FIA allowed some setups to be changed.

      1. Change in climatic conditions. Apparently this doesn’t only apply to wet / dry changes – because the temperature change between Saturday and Sunday was so great the FIA declared the climate to be different enough to warrant changes.

    9. Apex Assassin
      3rd August 2015, 19:27

      Who else would want Ricciardo?

      I mean seriously… he was completely overrated last season and hasn’t exactly outshone his teamie this season. Nice guy, decent driver, but hardly World Champion material.

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