Felipe Massa says he has received replies from Formula 1 and the FIA to his legal letters regarding the outcome of the 2008 world championship.
The former Ferrari driver believes he was denied victory in that year’s world championship because the two bodies failed to act promptly on allegations Renault had cheated during the Singapore Grand Prix by instructing Nelson Piquet Jnr to cause a crash.Massa said the results of the race should have been voided, or taken based on the lap prior to Piquet’s crash. Either of those changes would have resulted in that year’s champion, Lewis Hamilton, losing the title to Massa.
Following comments made earlier this year by former F1 CEO Bernie Ecclestone, Massa believes the FIA had cause to act on suspicions over the Singapore race earlier but did not do so, and instead waited until after the championship results had been finalised.
“There was a rule that said that the trophy would be delivered in December, which always happens every year, and from then on, the following year, the result could no longer be changed,” he told Globo Esporte. “For me, it was really a joke that they did to me.”
The FIA did not look into the events of the Singapore race for almost a year. Massa said Ecclestone’s interview is not the only indication they knew before 2009 that Piquet’s crash had been deliberate.
“The whole story happened after the interview he did. And another thing, it wasn’t just the interview he did. It was what Charlie Whiting said in the [former FIA president] Max Mosley documentary, which we went after later.
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“We saw an interview Whiting gave before he passed away that, in the last race of the year, he had a conversation with Nelson Piquet Snr, who told him everything. It was here in Sao Paulo, in 2008, and it seems that Bernie’s interview is really correct. Because not only did he know, but Charlie Whiting and Max Mosley, as he says in the interview, knew about this manipulation that happened in 2008.
Stefano Domenicali, who is now the CEO of Formula 1, was Massa’s team principal at Ferrari during the episode. Massa is confident he and FIA president Mohammed Ben Sulayem will take his concerns seriously and act upon them.
“Stefano is like a brother to me,” he said. “He is a person who has a great affection for me, and I for him, a very great relationship. Logically it is a situation that happened in the past, from another F1. The owners of F1 today were not them.
“The FIA is also another organisation nowadays. At that time [the president] was Max Mosley, nowadays it is Mohammed Ben Sulayem. They are different people and I believe they are people who know everything that happened at that moment. I hope they act in a fair way for the sport.
“I think that nowadays both the FOM and the FIA act in a very different way, thinking about fairness, about integrity. I believe that this is a very important point for them to analyse the situation in the right way, which did not happen in the right way back then.”
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Massa led the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix until Piquet’s crash, when he pitted, and lost a significant amount of time due to a botched pit stop. The deliberate crash paved the way for Piquet’s team mate Fernando Alonso to win the race. Hamilton, who beat Massa to the title by a single point that year, out-scored him by six points in Singapore.
Although Massa could still have been champion after Piquet’s crash had Ferrari not left the fuel hose attached to his car when they waved him out of the pits, he does not believe that detail should affect whether the race remains in the record books.
“The manipulation happened before the pit stop,” he said. “Many things happened in that pit stop. The hose and so many other things that happened do not interfere and do not matter, because everything happened before that pit stop.
“That race should have been cancelled or, at worst, stopped on lap 14. That pit stop, in the rules and in the manipulation, did not happen.”
Hamilton clinched the 2008 championship in the final race, which Massa won. He remains convinced he is the rightful champion and the Brazilian fans lost the chance to see him win the title on home ground.
“Without a doubt, I feel champion,” he said. “I believe that all the Brazilians who suffered in that last race of the year… no doubt I feel champion, and it would be an incredible celebration here in Interlagos, in that last moment of 2008.”
He said he has spoken to many people about the episode and “most people agree with me” about it. ”The manipulation of the race was confirmed by the FIA. Everything that happened was confirmed. We’re not here to tell a story no one knows.
“What happened was clear: a manipulation. And there was no change from a stolen race. Of course, there’s nothing more to talk about. We are here to show that they knew in 2008 and did nothing.”
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Adrian Hancox (@ahxshades)
26th August 2023, 17:37
Good for him.
He’s wrong though.
Manto
26th August 2023, 18:40
Funny for Ham fans Ham should have the 2021 title but Massa not
Apparently masi “interpreting” the rules is worse then fia and f1 knowing a team manipulated a race and stay silent
Another demonstration of hypocrisy
Edvaldo
26th August 2023, 19:40
A team manipulated a race, this team should be DSQ. For some smaller teams like Williams, that race was a great result for their season. But because Ferrari made a very silly mistake, the whole race should be canceled?
And why it took Massa 14 years to act on it? Probably someone buzzing on his ear, nothing else.
drmouse (@drmouse)
27th August 2023, 10:33
Because it’s only recently that it’s come to light that several senior figures in both the FIA and FOM knew the crash was on purpose and kept quiet about it.
anon
27th August 2023, 13:03
@drmouse what we have had is an allegation about what was known and when from Ecclestone (one that Ecclestone now appears to be withdrawing).
The claims have not actually been proven beyond what might be considered a reasonable threshold, with the issue that the source of those claims, Ecclestone, has a long standing reputation for making outlandish statements that he knew were false for the purpose of creating a storm in the media and having been openly branded as dishonest and unreliable by judges during his legal trials.
You, and pretty much every other single user on this site, have routinely criticised Bernie for stirring up trouble in the press for his own personal ends for decades. Why is it that so many of those who, for years, have said that Bernie is a manipulative liar who acts solely in his own self interests and that you shouldn’t believe a word that he says, now want to believe him?
Adrian Hancox (@ahxshades)
27th August 2023, 11:05
Not a “Ham fan”, so your argument is wasted on me. To be clear, fan of the sport rather than having some slavish tribalism to a driver or a team really.
Yellow Baron
26th August 2023, 19:36
Would love to see what Felipe think about 2021 Abu Dhabi considering he uses the word manipulation so much. If they were to somehow give mass this title gen they sure as heck better give Lewis his back too
That guy
26th August 2023, 20:14
So you think the result of Abu Dhabi 21 should be cancelled?
Doesn’t make any difference, does it?
Wooky
26th August 2023, 22:01
races are not cancelled if someone cheats. can you bring an example? there is none.
Coventry Climax
26th August 2023, 17:39
So that’s most people he has spoken to, that agree with him.
Which means he probably selected his conversational partners with care.
Look, he maybe right, there was foul play, and we already know the FiA does not have the best of reputations where transparent governing is concerned.
But this is not doing his popularity any good and thinking it will ever be changed is quite naive.
You could take this fight to the grave, and in some cases that’s even commendable, but this is about sports, and it’s not life threatening in anyway, so I’d say: Massa, please, get a life and enjoy it. You’ve been in a very privileged situation already. Recognise that, step over it and let it go.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
26th August 2023, 23:05
If I were massa, a comment like this would only push me forward in wanting the 2008 title.
Parte
26th August 2023, 17:45
Who is most. He must be having a laugh. You were gifted the Spa race in 2008. Most people agree with that too. Irrespective of what happened in Singapore why shd it be cancelled .the other teams raced .Ferrari messed up your pitstop.Assuming they didn’t mess up and he won would he be saying this? the answer is no. t. Besides it wasn’t the last race of the season . He was WC for a few secs until LH passed Timo Glock. If u want to retrospectively be crowned f1 champ the incidents between Hill and schumi in 94, the incidents between Prost and Senna will all be changed. Just enjoy your retirement as an ex f1 driver
Stephen Higgins
26th August 2023, 19:53
+1
melanos
26th August 2023, 22:09
Wenn du einmal angefangen hast zu lügen, dann bleibe auch dabei!
Once you start lying, keep at it!
Craig
26th August 2023, 22:29
Ultimately he was gifted that win as there wasn’t a legitimate reason to penalize Hamilton. As rules were written at the time he gave Raikkonen the place back, but if you don’t accept that as enough; Raikkonen then got ahead of Hamilton again later that lap before spinning off of his own accord 2 corners later, which would have fitted how the rule was later re-written and currently stands.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
26th August 2023, 23:09
The spa race is a good point, let’s see: massa was supposed to win singapore and let’s say hamilton got 4th as a result, then massa would’ve gained 5 points that race, instead of losing 6, a positive 11 swing in his direction, and then let’s rectify spa: massa comes 2nd, hamilton wins, and this is a negative 6 points swing for massa, it looks like to me massa was supposed to win the title even rectifying both mistakes.
I’m aware the singapore order would’ve been different apart from putting massa back to 1st place, so hamilton could not have been 4th, but seems obvious spa cost hamilton less than singapore cost massa.
Edvaldo
27th August 2023, 0:41
If Massa had won Singapore, Hamilton would be 2nd.
Hamilton was 3rd because he was impacted by Renault’s manipulation just like Massa was.
If Massa hadn’t had the issue on the pit stop he would likely finish 3rd with Hamilton 4th.
Alonso got his position due to cheating, while Rosberg was lucky the pieces fell on his favour to get that 2nd place.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
26th August 2023, 23:17
Just thought that obviously alonso would have to be removed since it’s renault that cheated, so hamilton would recover 1 place immediately, but that only means 3rd instead of 4th, it’s not enough.
Armchair Expert (@armchairexpert)
26th August 2023, 17:59
As usual, people are missing the point. And the point is Mosley and Ecclestone (and people in the paddock too!) knew about manipulation which happened at Marina Bay that night, but decided to sweep it under the carpet and hand out 2008 trophies like nothing happened. It would stay there maybe forever like other cases of cheating in F1, but for the unfortunate sacking of Piquet following year.
I wonder what the reaction would be, especially by British press, if hypothetically some years into the future Masi admits he deliberately let through only few lapped cars so Max could overtake Hamilton and become the champion, while very “lucky” people won huge sums betting on it.
Yaru (@yaru)
26th August 2023, 18:27
They should have investigated it and annuled Renault’s points, the guys that cheated.
manto
26th August 2023, 18:49
Are them the same people that wanted just the last lap of Abu Dhabi cancelled? Lol
F1 frog (@f1frog)
26th August 2023, 18:51
It’s a completely different situation to Abu Dhabi 2021. Crashgate didn’t cost Felipe Massa the title or even that Grand Prix (the botched pitstop did), and the rule that he is trying to enact of voiding the entire race or going back to the lap before the crash is completely non-existent. Had they investigated it at the time, taking Renault’s win away would have been the thing to do; it has nothing to do with Felipe Massa at all so it is annoying that he is claiming that he is the rightful 2008 champion.
Abu Dhabi, on the other hand, was the organisers breaking their own rules, not deliberately to give Verstappen the title but to make an exciting ending, which happened to coincide with giving Verstappen the title. That was far more deserving of the results being changed than because of one team cheating, although I think that once a year has passed it should be consigned to the history books.
hahostolze (@hahostolze)
26th August 2023, 22:35
@f1frog yeah, this argument doesn’t work. You can’t take two cases and apply the ‘conditio sine qua non’ to one and not the other.
Singapore, the crash triggered the pitstop. Either it did, or it did not. (It did). Therefore, without the one, the other does not then ultimately happen.
Abu Dhabi, the call by Masi triggered the overtake. Again, it would not have happened without.
Both are the same. Piquet/Renault did not give Hamilton the title (what if Ferrari hadn’t messed up) but they irrefutably and irreversibly – and importantly, unlawfully! – caused the chain of reactions that cost Massa the title. Masi did not give Verstappen the title (what if Hamilton had defended the overtake) but he caused the chain of reactions that led to the overtake, unlawfully.
So yeah, the situations are actually very much comparable.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
26th August 2023, 23:15
Agree that the 2 situations are comparable, though let’s not forget masi could’ve also allowed all cars to get unlapped the lap before, when that silly “lapped cars will NOT be allowed to overtake” appeared, I think it should’ve been “will NOW be allowed to overtake” and then we’d have had the same situation, and verstappen would’ve overtaken hamilton again.
F1 frog (@f1frog)
26th August 2023, 23:44
No, I think the situations are completely different. Firstly, Hamilton could still have won the title under the Masi rules, but under the correct rules, he would definitely have won the title because the race would have finished behind the safety car. In Singapore, even without that safety car, Felipe Massa would still have had to make that same pitstop, still in a high pressure situation albeit not quite to the same extent, so Ferrari might have messed it up anyway.
But that is actually completely irrelevant. The point is that in Abu Dhabi, the race director deliberately broke the rules to make the ending of the race exciting. That has never happened before and is far worse, in my opinion, than one team cheating to attempt to win. There is very much precedent for that and in the 75 year history of Formula 1 it has always been punished by disqualifying the guilty party (if it was known about at the time) and never by completely annulling the race, not even when it affected other drivers. In the 1982 Brazilian Grand Prix, Gilles Villeneuve spun out of the lead under pressure from Nelson Piquet who was driving an illegal car with water-cooled brakes, which is actually quite similar to Massa in Singapore (Ferrari messed up under pressure because of an illegal act), and there was never any chance at all that that race would be declared null and void.
I don’t think there is any chance that Hamilton could have been made 2021 champion because if Abu Dhabi had been annulled he would have lost on points anyway, but I believe that it would be reasonable for that to have happened because the race director broke his own rules. I don’t think it is correct that Singapore 2008 should be annulled because of one team cheating because that would set a terrible precedent and has never been the case before. Bernie Ecclestone’s suggestion that the rules dictate that that is what should happen is nonsense.
SteveP
26th August 2023, 18:52
Actually, it seems most people have got the point.
The point is that, under the rules then and now, Alonso and Renault should have been punished.
No win for Alonso, Renault DQ’d from constructors.
Rosberg takes the win, everyone else moves up a place too.
Optional follow-up: Massa sues Ferrari for being useless in the pits.
Venedikov (@venedikov)
26th August 2023, 19:20
On the follow up: It will be a collective proceeding from everyone that had been Ferrari driver after, let’s say, 2007.
PacificPR (@streydt)
26th August 2023, 18:57
Well. Again. If it had been McLaren that would have been cheating it would have been a completely different story. But McLaren didn’t cheat. So let’s just go with a hypothetical theory and for arguments sake say that the FIA did know straight away during or directly after the race – what do would have happened? A Fernando Alonso and the Renault team would have been disqualified from the race. B Nico Rosberg would have won and Lewis Hamilton would have been second and been given the full points as always happens when someone gets disqualified after a race (I don’t know and can’t find a situation where this wasn’t the case, maybe Tyrrell 85?). This would have given Massa an extra 2 points deficit. Massa’s argument the results should have been nullified are complete nonsense. Don’t get me wrong I do feel for him and I do understand his frustration but his arguments are just not making any sense at any level.
some racing fan
27th August 2023, 6:20
Tyrrell in ‘84, not ‘85 (they filled their fuel tanks with lead shot, which was honestly a step too far)
SteveP
26th August 2023, 19:10
Much the same as most people in the world when a person is known to have manipulated an event for financial gain – prosecute and wait for the inevitable verdict and then complain it isn’t harsh enough. Indian subcontinent cricket match fixing is one example.
If the will was there, AD 2921 could be sorted just by taking the positions before the illegal restart and playing the sequence through to the correct re-start lap.
That would have been a lead out to the start-finish by LH and an official re-start at that point. Co-incidentally, it would have been the finish too.
SteveP
26th August 2023, 19:19
2021 even.
Busy watching the USA women fail to pass the baton properly in the relay race. DQ applied immediately after the race finished.
bosyber (@bosyber)
27th August 2023, 17:35
If that happened a couple of years into the future, I hope Mercedes and Hamilton would feel confirmed in their feelings about how they were cheated, it means they are the deserved winners of that race. But, it is al water under the bridge, and while I’d hope to see Verstappen acknowledge that it’s a bad way to win an otherwise deserved championship (and I’d love to see Horner hauled over the coals for his smarmy treatment of it), I can’t see it changing the outcome as it is now, and I don’t think it’s useful to do so either.
And yes as you can tell, I am not a Red Bull fan, since while it’s impossible not to have admiration for what the team, and Verstappen, can do on and around the track, they certainly do a lot that makes me want others to take their crown (though that would take equally hard work and avoiding errors, which Merc didn’t do this year, certainly Ferrari hasn’t, nor AM or McLaren, so there we are).
Craig
26th August 2023, 22:15
If they genuinely knew at the time (considering Ecclestone’s the source I’d be dubious), then it would be a significant scandal. But it still wouldn’t warrant voiding the entire race, only excluding Renault from the results.
anon
27th August 2023, 12:36
@armchairexpert and immediately we run into a major problem with your post, which is that you have automatically assumed that “Mosley and Ecclestone (and people in the paddock too!) knew” based solely on the testimony of Ecclestone.
The problem that many have is that, from Massa’s public statements, it seems his case is heavily dependent on Ecclestone’s claims. As pointed out by others, Ecclestone has a reputation for being an extremely unreliable and manipulative individual, and in the Constantin Medien trial, the judge ruled that it was “impossible to regard him as a reliable or truthful witness”.
When we have had previous trial judges saying that Bernie’s testimony was so unreliable and dishonest that it cannot be relied upon in a court of law, why are you placing so much faith in Bernie’s claims?
floodo1 (@floodo1)
28th August 2023, 14:10
Because Charlie Whiting confirmed Ecclestonea comments
Jogo
26th August 2023, 18:09
The harsh truth is that he ruined his own reputation so badly during “Fernando is faster than you” period I don’t believe somebody really supports his actions except his family probably. Let’s say this straight, he may be a good person, but people don’t respect him as a driver anymore. Hamilton is the 2008 champion and nothing can change this.
Yellow Baron
26th August 2023, 19:43
Felipe never should have moved over for Fernando. I think he was going against himself in doing so and wasn’t the same driver ever since.
He is not happy about 2008 and obviously wasn’t happy about it at all in 2010. I don’t know if he felt any animosity with Fernando over it but that should have been a moment for him to put his foot down like other great champions do.
Maybe if he had stuck up for himself in Germany 2010 as strongly as he is now doing 15 years later then people would have more sympathy or respect
Again I wonder if he feels as strongly about 2021 Abudhabi also from a manipulation and fairness pov. Especially considering that was much worse over all and had an absolute affect on yw championship and was a mistake made in knowledge of the title situation.
Tommy Scragend
26th August 2023, 18:51
The blow to the head in Hungary must be finally catching up with him.
Massa needs to understand that when he tells someone he is the rightful 2008 champion and they smile at him, pat him on the head and say “whatever you say, Felipe”… they’re not agreeing with him.
RR
26th August 2023, 19:21
Where is Smedley when he needs him most?
RR
26th August 2023, 19:19
I’m sure his lawyer is urging him to go down every legal avenue and never give up.
Marcos
26th August 2023, 19:29
I AM one of many Brazilians who suffered with the loss of the title in 2008, but I don’t think Massa is entitled to it in any way, and fighting to overturn the result now only stains his legacy and reputation. He would have been a deserving champion in ’08, same as Hamilton was. As for the Singapore chashgate, they should either exclude Renault from that event or anull the event altogether, and neither outcome would change the final result of the season. Massa actually lost that tittle in Malasya (spun on his own), Silverstone (couldn’t keep car on track), Monaco (Ferrari messed up the stops) and Hungary (heartbraking engine failure). I used to be a big Massa fan and supporter, but I confess this whole law suit drama coupled with some of his recent political positions (suporting Bolsonaro) has really dampened my admiration. Hope he gives this before too much damage has been done to his image and legacy.
Edvaldo
26th August 2023, 19:44
If they cancel the race Hamilton loses 6 points, Massa none. Massa would be the champion, that’s why this is the only scenario that interests him.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
26th August 2023, 23:22
I agree they should cancel the race but it has an impact indeed, as edvaldo said.
André
27th August 2023, 12:33
Who’s “most”? A small sample of a biased population? Ask in Britain what people think and see what “most” means.
If Abu Dhabi 2021, where the FIA itself was to blame for breaking rules that they themselves are responsible to enforce, was not overturned, why would Singapore 2008? It was “just” a team being naughty. How many times in the sport have drivers and teams been naughty but escaped punishment? Prost kept his title after deliberately crashing into Senna in Suzuka 1989. It was so obvious, as he turned in much earlier than what the apex of the chicane would allow. Nonsensical desperate move, and yet Senna lost the title for “cutting the chicane”. Ridiculous. Until today that hasn’t been fixed. And it never will. It’s history now.
2008 was such a tight season, both sides made mistakes, but you can’t change history. You can’t change the chain of events or expect that if you change one event, everything else would have happened exactly the same. At best Renault should be retroactively disqualified from that race and receive a fine. Alonso loses the win, the points and the trophy, and so does Renault, which means Ham finishes higher up and with a higher gap to Massa. Oops.
Stephen Higgins
26th August 2023, 19:52
No Philipe.
I don’t agree with you.
You were gifted the win at Spa and if you had won the title that year, it would have been as tainted as 2021’s was.
As the Critical Drinker is so find of saying … go away now.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
26th August 2023, 23:23
So you’re saying he was the best driver of 2008? Because verstappen was the best driver of 2021, and even the poll on this website, despite there being many hamilton fans here, agrees with this.
jhg103 (@joshgeake)
26th August 2023, 19:54
He 100% deserved the 2008 title but he doesn’t deserve to win it in a court room 15 years later.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
26th August 2023, 23:25
I don’t see why not, if he deserved it 15 years ago, he deserves it now.
MacLeod (@macleod)
26th August 2023, 23:53
desrve yes but you have to earn it that didn’t happen as he made too many mistakes in that whole year.
AllTheCoolNamesWereTaken
26th August 2023, 20:00
I’m one of the people who believe that Massa did, indeed, deserve the 2008 title.
However, so did Hamilton.
The two were neck-and-neck for much of the season. Each driver put in some cracking performances … and made some blunders. And each driver was, at various times, robbed of points through no fault of their own.
Sometimes in F1, that happens: Two (or more) drivers are equally deserving of the crown, but only one of them can win it. But, in the case of 2008, Crashgate does mean that there’s a question mark hanging over the final results. Would Ferrari still have botched Massa’s pit stop if the race had gone differently prior to that point (that is, if there had been no deliberate crash)? If Massa had won at Singapore, would Hamilton have driven differently in the final races, and if so, would he have scored more points?
We obviously don’t know. And this uncertainty is at the heart of the whole debacle. There’s a part of me that would like the FIA to recognize Hamilton and Massa as joint champions – that way, Massa would get the title he deserved, but Hamilton wouldn’t be robbed of the title which he, too, deserved – but, barring that, I think the best course of action would be to leave the results as they currently stand.
I do feel for Massa, though. I really do.
Mayrton
26th August 2023, 21:52
I must have missed the online survey then when reaching the conclusion most agree with him.
Craig
26th August 2023, 22:10
To say Massa has fallen would be a drastic understatement.
Tommy C (@tommy-c)
26th August 2023, 22:35
Please stop… my memory of 2008 was Massa being quite mediocre outside of his 5 victories (his gifted Spa win should be looked at if he’s really that concerned about manipulation…). Fortunately for him, Lewis was a little mediocre too and made some fundamental errors here and there (Canada pitlane for example). Massa was remembered as being graceful in defeat on home soil. Now he’s being remembered as a sook. A shame really. Please just let it go.
melanos
26th August 2023, 22:38
Felipe, baby, stay cool, we are bringing you the white visor, stay cool, we are in a good position, ok?
(There was a hilarious “Felipe baby” song in YouTube years ago based on the “Santa, baby” song, but I cannot find it now. At least you can hear the song and read the lyrics here.
Don’t forget you’re our only hope
Kimi won’t do anything but mope
There’s not enough ice cream for the both of you
And only one gorilla suit – oo-oo-oooh
Priceless!!
hahostolze (@hahostolze)
26th August 2023, 22:46
Meh, this is the not the first nor is it the last F1 world title where the arbitrary nature of F1’s maddening rulebook and labyrinthian set of interests and interest groups ended up defining a championship. Massa would have been world champion in 2008 if F1 was a sport in the most objective sense of the word. Then again, Ireland would have been at the 2010 EURO’s if not for Henry’s handball.
Ultimately, that is sport. It is not objective. It is cruel, capricious, irregular and defined by luck. Many drivers would rightly claim their championship on the basis of bad reliability (Kimi 2005 the most recent, I think) or any other myriad number of random events and reasons.
NB: this is why yes, Massa is right from the perspective of objective cause and effect, but few people care, because he wasn’t convincing enough as a champion to merit it. As with Abu Dhabi 2021, what with Imola, Silverstone, Hungary, nobody would argue that luck wasn’t on the side of Hamilton that season – until it wasn’t, when the sport showed its capricious side. It’s never going to be only about who and what is best.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
26th August 2023, 23:32
As you mention reliability, verstappen could claim 2021 on reliability had it not been for masi’s intervention too (baku).
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
26th August 2023, 23:34
Well, yes, it’s basically what you said, I remember around 45 points swing in favour of hamilton in terms of luck, which went down to 30 with abu dhabi, still a lot, he had no business being in the fight with how he drove the first half of the season imo.
Stephen Crowsen (@drycrust)
26th August 2023, 23:12
I presume the comment is from Mr Ecclestone, and I agree with it. The rules place a “sunset” on appeals, so appeals placed after that particular time are ignored. Part of the reason for this is people forget why decisions were made. We all create our own history of events that happened in the past, forgetting the decisions which might embarrass us later on. We may even add things to our version of history which are entirely fictitious. Yes, some race result could been an injustice, but people died that year because of some foolish action, people were sent to jail because of a miscarriage of justice, people were dismissed from good jobs without good reason, promotions were denied because of some unjust corporate policy, etc. The list of injustices is endless. I’ve seen drivers get paid just above the legal minimum wage for carrying arguably the most valuable cargo – people. Massa was paid extraordinarily well to drive a car several hundred kilometres. This is sport, it isn’t real life. As the old saying goes, let sleeping dogs lie.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
26th August 2023, 23:36
I have to say though that most people on this website seem to disagree with massa in terms of deserving the title, I’m surprised cause while both made a lot of mistakes, he seemed slightly the more deserving driver of 2008 and I see reason in his comment that everything that happened after the cheating event should be null, and his botched pit stop happened after.
Jogo
27th August 2023, 10:41
“he seemed slightly the more deserving driver of 2008”
I can’t say he didn’t deserve to win. He was generally good. Took a role of team leader when Raikkonen seemed to be a little bit phlegmatic about taking another title. Ferrari needed Felipe and he did everything he could. He gave his heart. Anyway I can’t really remember his wins. But I still can remember Monaco and Silverstone. Even at Spa Hamilton stole the show. Some people may disagree but I feel like Ferrari was generally better car. So in terms of “drive like a champion” I think Hamilton was more convincing.
Doug "Erich Staller #8" (@cra8z)
27th August 2023, 1:54
Felipe’s never asked me! I think he’s nuts. It’s been 15 years Felipe… let it go. And by the way…Fernando is still quicker than you!
some racing fan
27th August 2023, 6:19
Really? Are these “people” his invisible friends?
Sonny Crockett (@sonnycrockett)
27th August 2023, 9:08
I’d like to appeal my GCSE Maths result from 1988 please.
I know it seems a bit late to be doing it now but someone recently mentioned that the person who marked the papers was sacked a few years later and also, everyone I’ve spoken to agrees with me.
Mayrton
28th August 2023, 12:56
Hahahaha, you make an excellent point and I also agree with you.
Paolo (@paulsteward40)
27th August 2023, 11:06
Reality used to be a friend of mine. Now I am just delusional LOL