Alonso-Webber incident ‘shocked’ Hamilton

F1 Fanatic Round-up

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In the round-up: Lewis Hamilton says he was “shocked” to come across Fernando Alonso parked on the racing line and Mark Webber walking across it to get on his car after the Singapore Grand Prix.


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Webber penalised for Alonso ‘lift’ (BBC)

“I was doing my in-lap, came around the corner and Fernando was there, and I was really shocked. I went to the right of him, but if Mark had been walking across where I went then I would have run him over.”

Red Bull critical over Webber penalty (Autosport)

Christian Horner: “In fairness I haven’t seen the footage but I saw the image of him giving Mark a lift back, and at the end of the day it was good for the show, good TV, and if drivers can’t show any emotion it is a shame.”

Max Mosley supports Ecclestone in F1 battle (The Telegraph)

“Mr Mosley now says that Mr Ecclestone would not have needed to pay a bribe, because he knew that if F1 had been sold to an owner who wanted to remove him, the deal would have been blocked by the sport’s governing body, the Federation Internationale de l’Automobile (FIA).”

Massa has a number of options (Sky)

“[Manager Nicolas Todt] is speaking with a few people and we will see what is going to be the best possibility for me.”


Comment of the day

Mark Webber and Fernando Alonso’s reprimands attracted strongly differing opinions – many of which were delivered before the onboard videos and more damning CCTV footage of the incident came to light. Dizzy believes the stewards got it right:

Do you think it is acceptable for a driver to disregard the regulation, not gain the permission of officials to go onto the racetrack, risk his own safety and the safety of other drivers by running across the track to jump onto another drivers car?

And for Alonso, is it acceptable for him to stop in the middle of the circuit causing cars to need to take avoiding action?

They both acted dangerously, Webber broke the regulations (you’re not supposed to run onto an active track without approval of officials) and so the reprimand is one hundred percent justified in my book.

From the forum

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On this day in F1

The first ever deployment of the Safety Car in an F1 race, on this day 40 years ago, did not go according to plan. A damp race at Mosport in Canada saw Jody Scheckter and Francois Cevert collide, which triggered the now-familiar full course yellow.

But the Safety Car driver failed to identify the leader, causing confusion in race control. It took until three hours after the race for the stewards to declare Peter Revson the winner ahead of Emerson Fittipaldi and Jackie Oliver.

The race also marked Jackie Stewart’s final grand prix start. He finished fifth. Here’s some footage from the race:

Image © Ferrari/Ercole Colombo

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70 comments on “Alonso-Webber incident ‘shocked’ Hamilton”

  1. They drove some ugly, ugly cars in 1973.

    1. have u seen the present ones?

      1. What do the present one have to do with 1973’s cars ?

    2. You don’t like F1 at all. Go watch a tractor race instead.

  2. Watched the video, still don’t agree, F1 pilots are supposed to be both good drivers and responsible adults and no-one was racing at the time.

    1. Utter non-sense.
      There was someone *walking* on the track in a situation where
      a) Hamilton couldn’t in the slightest have expected a walking person on his path
      b) He was travelling at over 100 km/h when he had to avoid Alonso. It’s more than enough to kill anyone you run over, and you talk about the fact that it was not racing speed?
      c) a *standing* car potentially hiding the walking person.

      If someone fails to see how incredibly and unnecessary dangerous is something like that, I don’t know what to tell them.

      1. I whole-heartedly agree. I have actually seen the footage of Tom Pryce’s fatal accident when he hit a marshal (though unintentionally; it was quite a shock when I saw it).

        It was, in a word, horrifying. At the time of the accident, the only way of identifying the victim was to do a headcount of the marshals and see who was missing. No-one wants a repeat of that.

        So I don’t think that Webber was given a penalty for hitching a ride. Rather, I think he was given the penalty for the unsafe manner in which he did it.

        1. I am still wondering why Fernando wasn’t given a penalty and a harsher one than Webber becuz Alonso was the one who stopped and waited for Webber. it wasn’t like Webber waved down Fernando…

          1. @scuderia_fan85
            I guess you didn’t watch the video as WEB did in fact run on track and wave down ALO.

          2. @scuderia_fan85 He was; Webber and Alonso were given a reprimand, the same ‘penalty’. Only Webber already had two of those (reprimands) and hence his third translated into a grid penalty. Alonso received his first reprimand of the year.

          3. Yeah, it was not the first nor the second but the third reprimand. If it was with Grosjean or Vettel, for that matter, people would be asking a 2 race suspension or something like that… but when it is with the “proper bloke”……. I think they should have made a special dispensation for him in the rules – maybe for him it should be on fifth strike, or is it still too hash?

          4. @antifia

            If it was with Grosjean or Vettel, for that matter, people would be asking a 2 race suspension or something like that

            No they wouldn’t.

      2. You have obviously not grown up when men were men and there were really gutsy race drivers instead of today’s video game generations.

    2. The reprimand which Webber received was entirely justified, and the CCTV footage which @ryanwilliams has posted in the forums shows just how dangerous the incident was.

      The crash between Leimer and Rossi at the end of the GP2 Sprint Race also showed that even professional drivers can collide when someone does something unexpected on the slow down laps. There is no way that Raikonnen, Rosberg or Hamilton expected someone to be running across the track at that point, whether or not it was a slow down lap.

      It was as much luck as skill that Webber’s conduct didn’t result in a serious injury. And that’s coming from someone who likes the guy.

      1. I’m a Webber fan and the CCTV footage was hard to watch. Stopped car on the racing line, blind corner and I doubt any yellow flags, anything could had happened. Lucky those following cars had plenty of experience and paying enough attention on the warm down lap. After driving flat out for the last 2 hours, the last thing you expect is this around the corner. Harsh but fair.

      2. As much as Webber’s bad luck is bemoaned, he wasn’t half lucky not to get swiped by Kimi as he was getting onto Alonso’s car.

    3. I think Hamilton says is as it is – its a nice gesture, and shouldn’t be banned, but only when done in a safer manner. Not by stopping in the middle of the track behind a corner and the other guy running straight past the path of the other cars.

    4. Too be fair, this type of situation is a most dangerous one – when they not racing. All the senses are out of sync compare to their usual rhythm. Drivers are actually more prone to have an incident when they cruise around rather than driving hard.

  3. Max Mosely would defend Bernie wouldn’t he.

  4. “It should have been dealt with by a fine or a slap on the wrist,” said Horner

    To me a reprimand has always been a slap on the wrist. You have managed to break a rule and received no real punishment.

    1. Agree, the reprimand would be a slap in the wrist.

      The penalty is a because of this and the previous reprimands put together.

    2. @zantkiller – What does Horner think a ‘slap on the wrist’ means? Do you just get an infinite amount of them with no action ever being taken? The FIA are right on this occasion.

      At first, I heard that Webber had been given a penalty and thought it was rediculous but having discovered that it’s for reacing 3 reprimands and having seen the CCTV, I think it’s 100% fair.

  5. I initially didn’t agree. I admit I rushed into a critisism without seeing the actual thing, but I was expecting to hear from the stewards about it. Come on, it’s not like they have been free with this sort of thing. I remember Massa getting a reprimand as well for stopping and getting the Brazilian flag from a marshall.

    But, yeah, it was seriously dangerous. Didn’t help that at turn 7 the track is sort of in the “middle of the road”, but it’s a blind corner and it could’ve ended up being a very nasty one.

  6. Everyone else debating why Webber got the penalty, but I want to know why Alonso got off with a reprimand. Alonso was equally at fault for the potentially dangerous situation, so it only seems right that he and Webber should get the same punishment, be it reprimand or penalty.
    The only reasoning I can see behind this double-standard is the fact that Alonso is, more or less, fighting for the championship and is extremely popular, so he gets the better treatment. Even though I’m an Alonso fan, that just bothers me.

    1. @bforth they DID get the same reprimand, it was just that Mark already had another 2 and by the rules, 3 and you’re out. So that’s where the penalty comes from, as a consecuence of the reprimand they both got.

      1. @fer-no65 Ah, I missed something then. How embarrassing.

      2. That makes more sense then. To be honest “Webber’s third reprimand results in penalty” and ” Webber gets penalty” give two very different emotions about the situation.

    2. For this they both got the same, a reprimand.

      Adding the 2 previous reprimands Webber already has means the penalty is added, Alonso has no prior reprimands, so nothing further.

      Not that hard to understand.

      1. @MW I wasn’t aware Webber was up to number three and committed the sin of only reading bits of the story. My mistake.

  7. Well Mark always wanted a ride in Ferrari with Alonso. So he got one finally. If u see the CCTV video that @ryanwilliams posted you’ll agree that its a reprimand. Since its third its 10place penalty.

  8. The incident happened right in front of our grandstand. It didn’t occur to me at that time that it was dangerous since the cars didn’t seem to be going too quickly. Webber was right in the middle of the road though when he was trying to get into the car, and looking at all the footage from the other drivers’ points of veiw and what they said, there’s no doubt a reprimand was justified for both of them.

    It was still a perfect, feel-good ending to the frantic last laps though, lots of Aussies around me and we cheered our hearts out. It’s a pity they didn’t manage to do it in a safer way.

    1. It was still a perfect, feel-good ending to the frantic last laps though, lots of Aussies around me and we cheered our hearts out. It’s a pity they didn’t manage to do it in a safer way.


  9. @Dizzy – Interesting perspective, can’t say I agree.

    Are Fernando Alonso and Mark Webber not two of the finest racing drivers in the world? Haven’t they been around race tracks all their lives? Can they, or the other drivers around them, not be trusted to be safe on a track?

    Is it not a good thing for the public perception of F1 to have moments harking back to Senna and Mansell? Don’t such things promote F1? Aren’t such moments some of the seemingly trivial gems that F1 consistently serves up each year?

    I can see that you want to stand out against the waves of anguished remarks of “ba-humbug” following Webber’s penalty, but really, you have to ask yourself, does the punishment fit the crime? Is a completely safe, refreshing mouthful of nostalgia really worth a ten place grid penalty, if, in all likelihood, it was never possible that the situation would become dangerous? Fabio Leimer deserves a penalty (not a ten place grid penalty), Webber does not.

    1. It wasn’t completely safe, and you can guess what it would have done to public perception of F1 if Lewis had run over Webber while driving 100km/h? Less than 40 km/h can kill.

      Just read what Lewis said, a legless aussie driver wouldn’t promote F1.


      Watch from 1:10. And Alonso drove 107 km/h when Mark was sitting on his car? Of course it looks really cool, but it ain’t safe and doesn’t promote responsible driving. If I give a hitchhiker a lift on my cars hood and drive 100km/h I’ll go to jail?

      I think reprimand was well justified and something shouldn’t be allowed just because it look cool and walking would have been boring for Mark.

      1. I take your point, and it’s a good one, but a touch of realism wouldn’t hurt here…

        1. Was Webber under as much risk as the risks the marshals are under? No.
        2. The slow down lap operates officially under yellow flag conditions. Drivers should be vigilant. What if a car ran out of fuel in the middle of the track? Or if marshals were clearing up a last lap collision?
        3. The brakes on an F1 car can loose 100mph in 1.7 seconds, and they still would have had decent temperature by that point, so as long as Lewis had his eyes open, Webber was fine.
        4. OK, it was perhaps not as safe as the FIA would like, but was it worth a 10-place grid penalty? No, a reprimand, or maybe even a three-place penalty, but 10 places is undeniably to harsh.

        I would also advise you not compare “the real world” where driving over 70mph (if you live in the UK) is illegal, and where most cars tend to end up being less valuable than the £2million F1 masterpieces, to a world where corners are labelled “slow” despite having a 50mph apex speed, and £60million is the bare minimum needed for a season. Webber also had a nice comfy, and flat, sidepod to sit on, and had a handy airbox to hang onto.

        1. p.s. Webber was just given a reprimand, but because he already had had two, it turned into a 10-place penalty.

        2. Errrrr… In a car out of fuel, the driver is protected by crumble zones and the monocoque. A driver running around on the track is not even close to being protected as well, and a simple clipping could easily kill him @107 km/h.

    3. @william-brierty, my point exactly, no driver should be making assumptions about what is round the corner on the slow down lap, it’s not like the passing cars were in danger of losing control and there was plenty of room on both sides, things always look closer on camera.

      1. @hohum Exactly. The slow down lap is officially under a “yellow flag” state of play anyway, and with the wide track, brakes that can loose 100mph in 1.7 seconds if needs be, the whole thing was completely safe, and pedestrian compared to the risks the marshalls take on a daily basis.

      2. The in-lap is not the same as a yellow flag lap. After the long race drivers are relaxing and waiving to the fans and other drivers if someone is next to them, maybe preparing the car for the stop by setting thing on the steering wheel …

    4. @william-brierty Sure the punishment easily fits the crime. Is it nice to see? Sure. However, just because it was a uniting gesture doesn’t mean that people should judge this solely based on empathy. The reality is things can happen no matter how good these guys are and to act like there is nothing to see here is somewhat overly optimistic.

      1. @magillagorilla You don’t end in F1 unless you’re overly optimistic. You don’t end up brushing the wall of the penultimate corner at Singapore for 61 laps unless you’re reasonably confident that you’ll end up OK. And I’m not judging the situation based on empathy. I’m judging it based on realism. Is a brief and harmless venture across a race track operating under yellow flag conditions, on a lap where drivers are encouraged to be vigilant due to the prospect of cars stopping having run out of fuel or with marshals potentially clearly up a last lap crash, and with cars in question having brakes that can loose 100mph in 1.7 seconds if needs be, really worth a 10-place grid penalty? If these drivers have the reaction times needed to say dodge a stalled car at the start, then I doubt there is a safer race-track in the world for Webber to have momentarily walked across; especially if he has eyes.

        1. @magillagorilla p.s. Webber was just given a reprimand, but because he already had had two, it turned into a 10-place penalty.

        2. @william-brierty It’s a big what if of excuses, I thought all about those same things before commenting and still there have been moments in F1 where drivers make a mistake during caution moments. The point is as others have told you that things can happen and to simply rule them out as not likely is a bit ignorant and ego driven (especially if a driver thought so). The issue is a driver shouldn’t have to avoid a event that shouldn’t be unfolding in the first place. Great show I’d say by the two but in a manner that could have been conducted better, perhaps Alonso pulling up in front of the RB instead of good street crossing gap away (estimation don’t take it to heart). Either way it’s over and done with and I think the penelty (though a reprimand limit being the reason).

          Also it’s a wind down lap and not an in lap or parade lap, drivers aren’t on edge and to the limit as during the race. Thus we can’t assume they are at the same level and some are even relaxing and taking off gloves, making maneuvers to gain weigh to the car and so on. However, what’s done is done and it’s time to move on to the new hot topics for me.

    5. It doesn’t matter how great they are. It was mostly Alonso’s mistake (really stupid) to stop on a racing line instead of going to the right of the kerb. That was extremely funny to see Alonso pay back Webber for Germany 2011. But after watching some videos I’d expect them to serve a much more severe penalty.

      1. @slava – Knowing Alonso, it could have been a tactic to get him higher up the grid in Korea, especially given the fact that Webber was on pole there last year. That aside (and I’m sure you won’t mind if do a bit of copying and pasting here given I’ve already written this twice), I’ve watched the videos, and you can be filled with all the stony-faced, modern attitude to health and safety, but the reality is, it wasn’t the slightest bit unsafe, and most definitely wasn’t worth a 10-place grid penalty. Is a brief and harmless venture across a race track operating under yellow flag conditions, on a lap where drivers are encouraged to be vigilant due to the prospect of cars stopping having run out of fuel or with marshals potentially clearly up a last lap crash, and with cars in question having brakes that can loose 100mph in 1.7 seconds if needs be, really worth a 10-place grid penalty? If these drivers have the reaction times needed to say dodge a stalled car at the start, then I doubt there is a safer race-track in the world for Webber to have momentarily walked across; especially if he has eyes. If I approach this from another angle, was Webber’s stroll across the track as dangerous as the situations that unpaid marshals often find themselves in? If you want to say “ba-humbug, someone could of got hurt there” then I’m afraid you should be pointing at a guy in orange overalls, instead of Webber in his blue ones.

    6. does the punishment fit the crime?

      The punishment did as the punishment was only a reprimand.

      In this case Mark quite clearly broke the rules relating to requiring permission from the marshals before walking onto the circuit, The only option the stewards had was to give him the reprimand for a clear breach of the regulations.
      Its not there fault that it was Mark’s 3rd reprimand & his 2nd for a safety violation (His 2nd was for ignoring yellow flags back in Canada).

      In terms of Alonso he parked in the middle of the circuit on a blind corner, That was dangerous & caused others to have to take avoiding action, Raikkonen had to virtually stop to avoid hitting him.

      Alonso should have pulled off the circuit onto the run-off well out the way of other cars & Mark should have asked marshals for permission to go back onto the circuit.
      Had they done this neither would have been reprimanded as has been the case when other drivers have been given lift’s in the past.

      The regulations Mark broke are perfectly clear & have been the same for many years & are in-fact the same in practically every racing category world-wide. You cannot walk back onto the racetrack without been given permission by a marshal.

      If you allow it done be done once unpunished then whats to stop other drivers ignoring the marshal’s & just running across the track whenever they want (As has occurred in the past, hence why the rule was brought in).

      1. @gt-racer Well, in that case, I think the punishment does fit the crime. It was not especially safe, although it was positively pedestrian compared to what the marshals do, and therefore it deserves a not especially harsh penalty. With regards to Alonso, yes, he should have been further to the left, but the fact that he wasn’t was not the end of the world. The track was covered in marshals waving flags, a car could have run out of fuel in the middle of the track, or the marshals could have been clearing up a last lap collision, and that is why the slow down lap operates, effectively, under yellow flags conditions, and hence, drivers are required to be vigilant. Also the cars have brakes that can loose 100mph in 1.7 second and are inhabited by drivers that are F1 drivers, and therefore have some of the fastest reaction times of any sportsmen, who can for instance avoid a stalled car on the grid after only spotting it a 100th of a second earlier. With that in mind, unless you are say Fabio Leimer, it is pretty hard to crash at such low speeds, and therefore, there was never any real danger. OK, Alonso and Webber could have executed it more safely, so I therefore feel the reprimands are justified, but was it unsafe? Really? No, not in the slightest.

        1. @william-brierty
          “…I think the punishment does fit the crime. It was not especially safe…”
          “…but was it unsafe? Really? No, not in the slightest.”

          I think your posts would carry more weight if you had just one opinion.

          1. I agree with @Dwight_js here when breaking down the double standard @william-brierty seems to pose.

    7. but really, you have to ask yourself, does the punishment fit the crime?

      To answer this, we need to clearly define what is ‘crime’ here and what is ‘punishment’.
      The crime is to come on the track dangerously. I think you will agree on this one.

      The punishment is – not a 10-place grid penalty – a reprimand. It is very important that fans understand this. The stewards only gave Webber a reprimand. Not a penalty.

      Now, it is just unfortunate that this just happened to be Webber’s third reprimand of the season. And three reprimands result in a penalty. And hence Webber has a penalty.

      Webber has a 10-place grid penalty not for hitching a ride on the sidepod. He has a penalty because he has three reprimands.

      1. A most indebted “thank-you” kind sir/madam, that truly does explain a lot! I though that was a tad harsh, my F1 sixth sense was pipping up the moment I read that he had a 10-place grid penalty! That flipping BBC Sport website again…

    8. @william-brierty – Webber does not deserve (and indeed, did not get) a penalty for what happened at Singapore. He got a penalty for clocking up 3 warnings.

      This one, failing to slow for yellow flags in Montreal and for making contact with Rosberg in Bahrain having recovered from a grid penalty for crashing into Vergne in China.

      All of that combined had lead to him getting a penalty, not just Singapore.

    9. Can they, or the other drivers around them, not be trusted to be safe on a track?

      Obviously not, or they would not have done something so embarrassingly stupid.

      Though I must admit I had the same opinion until I actually saw the footage. Then I realized what a bone-head move it was.

  10. How come no mention of the news Caterham will be sticking with Renualt engines until 2016.

  11. Looking at the replays (CCTV and Hamilton’s onboard) I have to agree with the stewards that both Alonso and Webber deserved reprimands. Alonso was being careless stopping just after a blind corner. And Mark ran onto the track passed Alonso and then sat on the left side pod. I don’t understand why he didn’t sit on the right side-pod. It was closer to him and Rosberg would then not have to take a quick left turn.

    It is unfortunate that this just happened to Webber’s third reprimand which resulted in a 10-place penalty.

    May be FIA can revise the rules and make it limited to three “sporting” reprimands and leave such incidents out. This incident can then be separately penalized monetarily. I am sure Red Bull and Ferrari don’t mind paying 10,000 bucks for this incident.

  12. Watching these videos remind me of the Neil Horan incident in 2003 (obviously there are differences, it was during the race and on a straight not a corner). Had a quick google and Webber had plenty to say about it:

    “Who? Oh, that lunatic! Well, I remember seeing something in the distance that I thought was a bit of bodywork at first, but the closing speeds were ridiculous, so within a second I could see it was a bloke with a board. I was worried about driver safety and the thought that there might be kids watching if any of us hit him. I didn’t care about him getting creamed. Just ******* ridiculous.”

    That guy went to jail, Webber got a reprimand – I think Webber was lucky in more ways than one (not that I would expect the Stewards to put him in jail ;) )

    1. Nice find, and a typical Webber. As nice and outspoken bloke he is, he does show some hypocrisy when it comes to his behaviour sometimes (e.g. Multi-21 vs ).

  13. Those reprimands are completely nonsense. Are we really ready to sacrifice the last bit of romance in this robotic age of F1. Does every action by drivers deserve to magnified in order to be political correct. We all hailed Vettel for going against team orders in Malaysia but now we crucify Alonso and Webber for lifting back to the pits? Ok I get it he was on the racing line but hey it was AFTER the race, no race speeds allowed. Most drivers are off line picking up marbles anyway. I also watched HAM onboard and he went wide even before he was well and true out of the corners so his ‘shock comment’ surprises me since WEB was already in the car…

    Come on guys F1 is better than this and we really need to start focusing what’s important. The FIA and her stewards (including the driver stewards) are creating an culture of fear for the drivers. Hulkenberg gave back a position in the race that he didn’t even have to gave back. It shows you how scared teams are of the FIA stewards…

    F1 is continuing its decline and it saddens me.

    1. Well said.

      1. Can’t say I’m all that riled up about it. I think the fact that all they got was reprimands, and the only reason it became a bigger penalty for MW was his previous reprimands, tells me that not ALL the romance has been sacrificed. And I don’t look to rides back to the pits as something we have come to depend on for the romance side of F1. But my point being that if F1 was all that bent out of shape about what FA and MW ‘romantically’ did, they would have come down with a much heavier fist in all sorts of ways, with for example big fines or bigger grid penalties for both drivers etc etc.

        For me what I continue to consider a negative of current F1 is that once again we have seen that the gadgets of bad tires and DRS have done nothing to tighten up and shake up the field and promote passing and instead we continue to see the field spread apart throughout the race and without the safety car would have appeared in the end like all the processional races that we so abhor. Why do we have these tires and the highly unpopular DRS again? F1 continues to hurt itself with it’s dependance on downforce and can’t even solve it with gadgets. When will they wake up? Guess we all need to see what next years shakeup brings.

  14. I simply can’t believe that Hamilton made such a comment. We all know how great of a racer he is, how fast his reflexes are, and how a F1 can brake substancially fast.
    I have two things to say after watching the video of Alonso’s and Hamilton’s perspective a couple of times.
    First, Alonso could have been more careful and could have pulled a little more away from the racing line. The reason he didn’t do it is probably because he didn’t feel it would be any dangerous to stop there at the in-lap. This is arguable…
    Second, it didn’t feel shocking at all from Hamilton’s perspective. If he would have felt any danger, he would’ve slowed down, and if he had someone walking on the track in front of him he would have dodged him with ease. It’s a F1 driver after all!
    Afterall, I think it’s a very disgracious comment by Hamilton, only showing that he would say anything to criticize Alonso, his greatest (or worst) rival.

    1. First, it was a blind corner, as is normal for a street circuit.
      Second, F1 drivers have reaction times around 0.2-0.3 seconds, same as the other 7 billion humans on this planet. Couple that with two hours of hard driving and losing so much water, those reactions will slow down.

  15. I think the penalty is stupid… A fine would be ok, but a 10 grid penalty is just crap… as is the stupid idea that the cars can’t do burnouts or donuts after the race…

    F1 is about the croud, if the croud leaves F1, F1 dies… F1 is a show, there are too many rules

  16. Hamilton reminds me of the sort of kid at school who would constantly break the rules until the teacher was looking, but would then be all sweetness and light to the teacher…

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